I hope these guys put out a game worth paying a sub for, which is a possibility as many of them have done so in the past on a certain other game.
I'm not sold on the CREDD thing though. PLEX works in EVE due to the nature of the game's economy as well as the way items are able to be traded and destroyed. With the timing of just introducing it from the start instead of into a 5-years strong functioning and vibrant economy, it looks like Carbine are simply lifting the idea from CCP without understanding what makes it work in EVE.
Sounds to me like the ever popular "start with a subscription fee while it's fresh, and switch to pay2win cash shop when the number of players dwindles".
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Glad they've gone sub, really feel th FTP model needs killing quick. Unfortunatley wildstar is releasing to late, ffIXV is releasing next week and from playing both final fantasy is so much better .
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
^This.
Show me an MMO released in the last 8 years that had PVE content that took people months of literally dedicating their lives to it (16 hours a day) to clear. Offer an MMO with the same amound of endgame content, and it will be able o keep its subscription model.
This news is rather unfortunate for me. I refuse to do mandatory subscriptions to PC games anymore. I feel they aren't justified these days especially monthly. I refuse to participate unless the developer/publisher can be held accountable if they don't deliver new content every month.
It usually only works out for a few months (because the game is new) then the content starts sputtering then the population dwindles due to people having to conserve dollars, then the game goes F2P.
I like B2P models, and buying into optional DLC as they're released and I don't mind cosmetic cash shops. This is sad news for me as I was looking forward to Wildstar.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
This game has the potential to attract the subscribers who enjoy raids that take months to clear. Of said group, there are millions. Now its wait and see if it can deliver that type of quality endgame.
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
^This.
Show me an MMO released in the last 8 years that had PVE content that took people months of literally dedicating their lives to it (16 hours a day) to clear. Offer an MMO with the same amound of endgame content, and it will be able o keep its subscription model.
Hammerknell took months for guilds to clear in Rift.
Unfortunately it also killed off 50% of the raiding guilds in the process.
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
Somewhere between WoW TBC and WoW Wrath, there was a focus change. The games began to focus on the reward instead of the content.
For those of us who played MMOs before then.....think back to your most fond memories of accomplishments in MMOs. I'mm willing to bet tha tfor the most of us, they revolved around doing the very things players had bitched about and got removed.
Back in the TBC days, I remember leveling my hunter through Outland. I remember doing the long quest chain in BEM to get that blue neck item. I remember doing the long ass quest chain starting in Nagrand that lead through dungeons and ended with a 5 man team quest in SMV to get the Sunfury Leggings. I remember grinding my ass off doing dailys to get Don Santos Rifle on my Hunter. I remember busint my ass to get LW to 375 and Dragonscale LW so I could create the Ebon Netherscale Armor set. I remember getting Legacy out of Kara.
Now, Ask me if I can tell you what my Death Knight wore.
See old MMOs were never about "What does the player want to do" but rather, they were about "What is the player willing to go through to get what they want"?
Modern players don't like that system. But yet, it kept 12M players logging back in every month. Soon as Blizz changed that focus they started bleeding.
Originally posted by velmax I don't think this was the best decision, but i guess i'm the minority.
You are in the majority. The pro-P2P players are a vocal minority, that's why every MMO that comes out as P2P in the last 8 years fails.
All of those MMos were mediocre at best and down right horrible for a p2p.
And wildstar is not? i really doubt it.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
This game has the potential to attract the subscribers who enjoy raids that take months to clear. Of said group, there are millions. Now its wait and see if it can deliver that type of quality endgame.
Muntz, you said it really well.
dood, it has the potential for a lot of things, but I have no confidence it will deliver any better than any other game out there. Rift has some of the best raids around for both entry and challenge content. The raiding community didn't support that game. I know there will be some excuse as to why they bailed on it, but there always is. Wildstar won't be any different. It's raids won't be so much better and people will start to make excuses as to why they ditch it.
What makes anyone think they can deliver a better raid game than WoW, Rift, EQ2, or EQ? Are raiders going to give up their progression and position in their former games to start over in Wildstar? I think that hurdle alone is what has given WoW a lot of its moment and inertia.
Well Rift, like SWTOR, launched with relativly simple (and sometimes broken) raids. Even SWTOR eventually put out raid instances that came close to places such as Firelands in WoW (im looking at you, terror from beyond nightmare mode), but it was too late, and even at that, no raid in Rift or SWTOR was on par or better than any WoW raid instance (at least since Ulduar), though I guess thats subjective.
This game has to launch with quality endgame, not patch in a "close second" months later.
As for why I think it has potential, from what I have seen so far, its beeing somewhat pushed as a raiding game (much like WoW). If you take a game like SWTOR, we didnt even know whats its endgame was until very close to release, hence it was nowhere near its focus.
EDIT: Just to prove my point a little bit, if you read VooDoo's interview regarding their world first kill of Akylios in Hammerknell (Rift), they literally said the reason it took so long to clear, was because the fight was fundamentally broken and had to wait 3 weeks for Trion to hotfix it......thats percisly the type of stuff I am talking about that makes hardcore raiders run back to a game like WoW.
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
^This.
Show me an MMO released in the last 8 years that had PVE content that took people months of literally dedicating their lives to it (16 hours a day) to clear. Offer an MMO with the same amound of endgame content, and it will be able o keep its subscription model.
Hammerknell took months for guilds to clear in Rift.
Unfortunately it also killed off 50% of the raiding guilds in the process.
From Voodoo's interview about their world first clear of it, specifially the last boss:
"3 weeks ago he had a 15 minute enrage timer (instead of 20), and required about 25 minutes to actually kill. The week after that we struggled with tidal waves coming from four different directions, two of which came through the boss’ model/tentacles and were extremely difficult (near impossible) for melee and the tank to see. Then the week after that Cerebral Bore was bugged (?) and one-shotting people as soon as it went out. We spent several nights trying all sorts of wild strategy theories to deal with it, but after exhausting all options we were forced to just wait for another round of hotfixes."
Thats why it took so long, and thats also why raiders left in droves.
If you compare that to lets say, WoWs current tier. Not only did it take over a month for Method to clear it while raiding 16+ hours a day non stop, their interview was much diff, claiming that the fights and mechanic were perfectly balanced. Wildstar needs that type of raid polish to survivie as P2P.
Please stop referring to the 30 days of play time that comes with the initial 60 dollar purchase as a"free 30 days". It's not free. You pay 60 dollars to get the first 30 days. The ability to play for 30 days is he ONLY thing you get for your initial purchase. So it's actually an extremely expensive 30 days of play.
It's as if the grocery store offered "free steak" but you have to pay twenty bucks for the plastic wrapper.
Doesn't matter, tho. There simply aren't enough people out there who will pay a hefty box price plus sub for an unknown game by an unknown company based on an original IP. This pay scheme will fail bigtime.
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
Somewhere between WoW TBC and WoW Wrath, there was a focus change. The games began to focus on the reward instead of the content.
For those of us who played MMOs before then.....think back to your most fond memories of accomplishments in MMOs. I'mm willing to bet tha tfor the most of us, they revolved around doing the very things players had bitched about and got removed.
Back in the TBC days, I remember leveling my hunter through Outland. I remember doing the long quest chain in BEM to get that blue neck item. I remember doing the long ass quest chain starting in Nagrand that lead through dungeons and ended with a 5 man team quest in SMV to get the Sunfury Leggings. I remember grinding my ass off doing dailys to get Don Santos Rifle on my Hunter. I remember busint my ass to get LW to 375 and Dragonscale LW so I could create the Ebon Netherscale Armor set. I remember getting Legacy out of Kara.
Now, Ask me if I can tell you what my Death Knight wore.
See old MMOs were never about "What does the player want to do" but rather, they were about "What is the player willing to go through to get what they want"?
Modern players don't like that system. But yet, it kept 12M players logging back in every month. Soon as Blizz changed that focus they started bleeding.
I never played WoW. I did play AO. It had that system but I don't remember it half as fondly. I look at many of those accomplishments as a big waste of time that really wasn't that fun. That is my perspective of the past. I suppose for some I'm part of the problem. I just don't want to play a game design like that. If that is your idea of fun and this or another game provides it, I won't be playing but I hope you enjoy it. I think for the most parts games get judged by their peers and the future and not the past. With so many games coming out that can be difficult to keep up with.
Please stop referring to the 30 days of play time that comes with the initial 60 dollar purchase as a"free 30 days". It's not free. You pay 60 dollars to get the first 30 days. The ability to play for 30 days is he ONLY thing you get for your initial purchase. So it's actually an extremely expensive 30 days of play.
It's as if the grocery store offered "free steak" but you have to pay twenty bucks for the plastic wrapper.
ahahaha true!
anyway i dont care if wildstar's payment method is p2p or p2win. i think that in the current mmo market, with so many descent f2p/b2p games and many more coming in the near future, like eq next and archeage, Wildstar will be R.I.P.2P
Good call Carbine/NC . I am glad you decided to go the P2P route. If your game is as good as it looks and sounds, which I think it might be. Then it will still get the numbers and people will not hesitate to sub. The P2P subscription model is FAR from dead. I'm elated you decided not to go with a Cashshop/F2P/B2P
Originally posted by Jinxys Good call Carbine/NC . I am glad you decided to go the P2P route. If your game is as good as it looks and sounds, which I think it might be. Then it will still get the numbers and people will not hesitate to sub. The P2P subscription model is FAR from dead. I'm elated you decided not to go with a Cashshop/F2P/B2P
no cash shop? hmmmm, wait a bit m8 and you will see one in game at launch
Comments
I hope these guys put out a game worth paying a sub for, which is a possibility as many of them have done so in the past on a certain other game.
I'm not sold on the CREDD thing though. PLEX works in EVE due to the nature of the game's economy as well as the way items are able to be traded and destroyed. With the timing of just introducing it from the start instead of into a 5-years strong functioning and vibrant economy, it looks like Carbine are simply lifting the idea from CCP without understanding what makes it work in EVE.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
RIP Wildstar.
It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
^This.
Show me an MMO released in the last 8 years that had PVE content that took people months of literally dedicating their lives to it (16 hours a day) to clear. Offer an MMO with the same amound of endgame content, and it will be able o keep its subscription model.
This news is rather unfortunate for me. I refuse to do mandatory subscriptions to PC games anymore. I feel they aren't justified these days especially monthly. I refuse to participate unless the developer/publisher can be held accountable if they don't deliver new content every month.
It usually only works out for a few months (because the game is new) then the content starts sputtering then the population dwindles due to people having to conserve dollars, then the game goes F2P.
I like B2P models, and buying into optional DLC as they're released and I don't mind cosmetic cash shops. This is sad news for me as I was looking forward to Wildstar.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This game has the potential to attract the subscribers who enjoy raids that take months to clear. Of said group, there are millions. Now its wait and see if it can deliver that type of quality endgame.
Hammerknell took months for guilds to clear in Rift.
Unfortunately it also killed off 50% of the raiding guilds in the process.
Somewhere between WoW TBC and WoW Wrath, there was a focus change. The games began to focus on the reward instead of the content.
For those of us who played MMOs before then.....think back to your most fond memories of accomplishments in MMOs. I'mm willing to bet tha tfor the most of us, they revolved around doing the very things players had bitched about and got removed.
Back in the TBC days, I remember leveling my hunter through Outland. I remember doing the long quest chain in BEM to get that blue neck item. I remember doing the long ass quest chain starting in Nagrand that lead through dungeons and ended with a 5 man team quest in SMV to get the Sunfury Leggings. I remember grinding my ass off doing dailys to get Don Santos Rifle on my Hunter. I remember busint my ass to get LW to 375 and Dragonscale LW so I could create the Ebon Netherscale Armor set. I remember getting Legacy out of Kara.
Now, Ask me if I can tell you what my Death Knight wore.
See old MMOs were never about "What does the player want to do" but rather, they were about "What is the player willing to go through to get what they want"?
Modern players don't like that system. But yet, it kept 12M players logging back in every month. Soon as Blizz changed that focus they started bleeding.
i would rather pay a sub..have played many of the f2p and others with all the micro trans and found them to really be lacking in long term substance.
f2p are just good fillers til something else comes along..for me anyway.
And wildstar is not? i really doubt it.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Well Rift, like SWTOR, launched with relativly simple (and sometimes broken) raids. Even SWTOR eventually put out raid instances that came close to places such as Firelands in WoW (im looking at you, terror from beyond nightmare mode), but it was too late, and even at that, no raid in Rift or SWTOR was on par or better than any WoW raid instance (at least since Ulduar), though I guess thats subjective.
This game has to launch with quality endgame, not patch in a "close second" months later.
As for why I think it has potential, from what I have seen so far, its beeing somewhat pushed as a raiding game (much like WoW). If you take a game like SWTOR, we didnt even know whats its endgame was until very close to release, hence it was nowhere near its focus.
EDIT: Just to prove my point a little bit, if you read VooDoo's interview regarding their world first kill of Akylios in Hammerknell (Rift), they literally said the reason it took so long to clear, was because the fight was fundamentally broken and had to wait 3 weeks for Trion to hotfix it......thats percisly the type of stuff I am talking about that makes hardcore raiders run back to a game like WoW.
If you think games fail because of their business model, I don't know what to say.
No one says "I quit SWTOR because of the subscription cost". They say "I quit SWTOR because of the lack of endgame" or something else.
It is all about the game. Business model doesn't matter. Good games will succeed. Bad games will not. F2P bad games will fail.
I don't think P2P is the "minority" by any means. The most popular MMO in the West is still WoW.
From Voodoo's interview about their world first clear of it, specifially the last boss:
"3 weeks ago he had a 15 minute enrage timer (instead of 20), and required about 25 minutes to actually kill. The week after that we struggled with tidal waves coming from four different directions, two of which came through the boss’ model/tentacles and were extremely difficult (near impossible) for melee and the tank to see. Then the week after that Cerebral Bore was bugged (?) and one-shotting people as soon as it went out. We spent several nights trying all sorts of wild strategy theories to deal with it, but after exhausting all options we were forced to just wait for another round of hotfixes."
Thats why it took so long, and thats also why raiders left in droves.
If you compare that to lets say, WoWs current tier. Not only did it take over a month for Method to clear it while raiding 16+ hours a day non stop, their interview was much diff, claiming that the fights and mechanic were perfectly balanced. Wildstar needs that type of raid polish to survivie as P2P.
Please stop referring to the 30 days of play time that comes with the initial 60 dollar purchase as a"free 30 days". It's not free. You pay 60 dollars to get the first 30 days. The ability to play for 30 days is he ONLY thing you get for your initial purchase. So it's actually an extremely expensive 30 days of play.
It's as if the grocery store offered "free steak" but you have to pay twenty bucks for the plastic wrapper.
Doesn't matter, tho. There simply aren't enough people out there who will pay a hefty box price plus sub for an unknown game by an unknown company based on an original IP. This pay scheme will fail bigtime.
I never played WoW. I did play AO. It had that system but I don't remember it half as fondly. I look at many of those accomplishments as a big waste of time that really wasn't that fun. That is my perspective of the past. I suppose for some I'm part of the problem. I just don't want to play a game design like that. If that is your idea of fun and this or another game provides it, I won't be playing but I hope you enjoy it. I think for the most parts games get judged by their peers and the future and not the past. With so many games coming out that can be difficult to keep up with.
ahahaha true!
anyway i dont care if wildstar's payment method is p2p or p2win. i think that in the current mmo market, with so many descent f2p/b2p games and many more coming in the near future, like eq next and archeage, Wildstar will be R.I.P.2P
Speak for your self!
no cash shop? hmmmm, wait a bit m8 and you will see one in game at launch