It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.
This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.
Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last. Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.
I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.
It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.
Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past.
Somewhere between WoW TBC and WoW Wrath, there was a focus change. The games began to focus on the reward instead of the content.
For those of us who played MMOs before then.....think back to your most fond memories of accomplishments in MMOs. I'mm willing to bet tha tfor the most of us, they revolved around doing the very things players had bitched about and got removed.
Back in the TBC days, I remember leveling my hunter through Outland. I remember doing the long quest chain in BEM to get that blue neck item. I remember doing the long ass quest chain starting in Nagrand that lead through dungeons and ended with a 5 man team quest in SMV to get the Sunfury Leggings. I remember grinding my ass off doing dailys to get Don Santos Rifle on my Hunter. I remember busint my ass to get LW to 375 and Dragonscale LW so I could create the Ebon Netherscale Armor set. I remember getting Legacy out of Kara.
Now, Ask me if I can tell you what my Death Knight wore.
See old MMOs were never about "What does the player want to do" but rather, they were about "What is the player willing to go through to get what they want"?
Modern players don't like that system. But yet, it kept 12M players logging back in every month. Soon as Blizz changed that focus they started bleeding.
I never played WoW. I did play AO. It had that system but I don't remember it half as fondly. I look at many of those accomplishments as a big waste of time that really wasn't that fun. That is my perspective of the past. I suppose for some I'm part of the problem. I just don't want to play a game design like that. If that is your idea of fun and this or another game provides it, I won't be playing but I hope you enjoy it. I think for the most parts games get judged by their peers and the future and not the past. With so many games coming out that can be difficult to keep up with.
This is where we get different tastes I guess. I was a huge fan of AO. Just not as many people played it back then so I don't use it as a reference. But to me, Yeah, AO fit's, I loved it. I
I will comment short and sweet, seeing there is a sea of replies already.
I applaud them for deciding to stick to the subscription model. I prefer to sub. to a game if the content and quality is there. This brings me to my next thought.... I for one do not find much interest in this game. It reminds me of WoW and I am one gamer that is done with the WoW type games. I do like their concept on housing though.
My sub. dollars will be going to FFXIV right now. I have played all the betas and with much improvement, I am hooked. I am one of those MMOers that like story content (great story content) in my MMO. SE has done a great job of reviving the 1.0 model and bringing it back to what I see as one of the greatest MMOs of 2013!
My problem is mostly the Price... it might not be that much for most people but there's a thing that kinda disgusts me. This Models smells like this for me:
"-Umm yea... the game is released we put so much money in it so lets just have it back fast okay?
-Well, of course we can sell the game for money... lets make it 60 bucks!
-Yea that's fine but more money would be nicer!
-Well... make it 120 then
-Naaah thats too much!
- Well some games charge player for playing the game monthly!
-Cool do that aswell!"
What i mean is there are B2P games cheaper/same box price as this ... and there are P2P games withouth a box price/lower box price and they're GOOD games... but paying the price for the game AND then paying monthly? (and i dont care what people say, after you payed 60 bucks for the first month (not the game, you dont get the game since if you stop paying you cant play it) 15 is a tad too much IMO). If it would be B2P with the same price or P2P with the same monthly fee without the box price, i think it would be fine... but both at the same time? Sounds a bit greedy for me. Well it really doesnt matter for me i'm waiting on EQn and even more on ESO, but it would've been nice to try Wildstar... not at this cost:S (And stop saying that 60 + monthly15 bucks is nothing, it might be in some countries but you forget, they sell it for the same price in countries where people get much less money for their job)
I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model. You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality. Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out? Did you complain about end-game? If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game? Exactly.
Good for them. Yoshi P, made a very compelling argument for why subscriptions are better, than other options for a game, and its players. WAY too many companies have been chasing the tasty pie in the sky, that many of the Asian games have. But different models work best for different cultures. It really does matter if ones game is good, and if content is added in a timely fashion. I'd not count subscription games out, in the Western markets, quite yet.
I'm SHOCKED at the amount of people that would perfer F2P over a sub...for $15 you get the ENTIRE GAME !!
You dont have to pay for your
helmet show/not show
your last name visable
Special story quest
mounts
compainions
flavor gear
bag space
bank bag space
pets
clearly P2W style enchants
Passes to PVP
Passes to Dungeons
Passes to Raid
Dyes for gear
items to change your gear to other looks
Need I go on? You people are INSANE!!!
This is absolutely ridiculous. You're trying to paint the whole f2p market with a broad brush. Just because that's swtor's model, doesn't mean it's like that for all mmos. Rift is one example where the f2p model is executed really well. (the only complaint i have about it, is that pre-raid gear is p2w)
Originally posted by observer I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model. You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality. Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out? Did you complain about end-game? If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game? Exactly.
The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing. A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation. Notice I said *allows*, not mandates. Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.
As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...). But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected. But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.
Originally posted by observer I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model. You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality. Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out? Did you complain about end-game? If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game? Exactly.
The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing. A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation. Notice I said *allows*, not mandates. Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.
As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...). But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected. But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.
Originally posted by observer I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model. You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality. Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out? Did you complain about end-game? If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game? Exactly.
The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing. A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation. Notice I said *allows*, not mandates. Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.
As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...). But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected. But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.
Wild Star isn't going for a steady revenue stream. They are trying to go for a cash grab.
a B2P boxed fee
a P2P subscription Fee
a real money transaction option
Talk about double dipping.
They probably know all to well, they can't sustain that indefinitely. and will alter the boxed fee or the sub fee or implement a Cash Shop at some point.
If this game turns out to have an awesome endgame, I'd be willing to pay the $60, I'd pay the $15/mo. But I pull the breaks on RMT.
People on this topic generally comment based on their own personal preferences for the type of pay model. This varies widely of course but it really not very important.
The important thing is that it is almost impossible to imagine that a somewhat odd looking game from an generally unknown developer based on an original IP is going to be able to attract a lot of people willing to pay a hefty box price plus a monthly sub.
When was the last time a game with an unknown IP succeeded with this pay model, even for the short term? City of Heroes? That was 8 years ago. A lot has changed since then. There are a LOT more gaming options out there, many at very low prices.
The Wildstar developers are delusional. They seem to think they are Blizzard circa 2005.
Originally posted by BillMurphy I'm surprised there's so little talk about the 2014 release date delay...
A little extra time spent on development if the Game needs it won't go a miss. I guess the we want it now crowd will whine , and it gives the why isn't it using the imaginary free to pay/play model.
Good games especially MMOs are far and few between these days so if they can pack in some extra content or improved game play elements then it can only benefit the game overall.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Interesting. I must say I still don't see the target audience of this game. People who want a WoW-that's-not-WoW? Is there enough of them? Personally, I attribute WoW's decline in subs to people getting tired of the whole model, not the game itself.
I thought they were going to make a sub-free WoW with some nice additional features, but I guess not. Maybe I'm just not interested in the whole "quest to endgame and raid" model and don't understand what the people who are want, but... eh. Right now FFXIV seems to be a better choice for group-focused content, unless you're someone who loves raiding.
Add to that:
Wildstar is Sci-fi, not fantasy (ffivx is)
Wildstar has more action based combat compared to ffivx having the old tab target with 2.5 gcd.
There are more reasons I am sure, but I don't see the difference being raiding or not.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Actually, I wasn't very interested in this game at all, until I read this announcement. Finally a high quality non fantasy MMO where all the F2P only scrubs are weeded out.
Since everyone is making predictions: I predict it will be a couple of years before this game goes F2P. By then I'll be bored of it anyways so I won't matter either way to me.
Now back to your regularly scheduled arguments on the faults of the P2P system.
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
Simply put whether you like or dislike the payment model, this will be all overlooked depending on how sticky the game is!! And in my opinion is well thought out as Carbine makes decisions, for once I'm sure this MMO will satisfy most everyone. A good example of how carbine works is, a person sent $20 to Firefall for access to Wildstar Beta. The $20 was returned from Wildstar with unique artwork from carbine art studio, another classy situation was when beta notes were leaked and only the people not standing up to the NDA had access to the information, Carbine chose to release patch notes to everyone. Quite honestly I cannot wait for the game the launch and there seems to be a little bit of a setback with circuitboard crafting. I guess self-proclaimed fan boy of Wildstar. Go-go Carbine
Thank goodness, finally a game worth playing without p2w, freeloaders and cash shop.
Thank you, Carbine.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
PAY 2 WIN! (Diablo 3 RMAH) (9000 Gold Farmers in coming...) In game AH to sell and buy in-game gold for REAL MONEY!
Microtransaction Purchases Planned for later date.... Yeah $$$$$...
Now how fraking stupid do they think people are, moooo cash cows (yes you), this game will not last long at all.... Basically your throwing at least $200 USD away for a game that will go Free 2 Play in a year.
Gotta say I like it. I'm so tired of F2P games where they are always nit picking you for everything in game. Oh want a bag? $20. Want to add another character slot, $20. Whoa 15 slots in the bank not enough add another 15 only $20. Want to reskin your armor with another set? You guessed it $20.....
Seems like now days F2P games are costing you more to play and P2P. Then there is the quality angle. Most F2P games are not innovative and not very good. Slap some graphics a few quests and a couple features and you got a new MMO. Maybe I've become synical but quality seems to be all about flash and not about content.
The good news is what I've read on wildstar it sounds like they are looking to make quality important and to actually setup a model where they are going to put it on the line and earn my monthly subscription. They want to keep me by delivering me monthly services at a reasonable rate...
Free is too good to be true and I'm tired of countless lackluster free games...
Now I will exclude GW2 at least so far it seems like a good game.
Comments
This is where we get different tastes I guess. I was a huge fan of AO. Just not as many people played it back then so I don't use it as a reference. But to me, Yeah, AO fit's, I loved it. I
I will comment short and sweet, seeing there is a sea of replies already.
I applaud them for deciding to stick to the subscription model. I prefer to sub. to a game if the content and quality is there. This brings me to my next thought.... I for one do not find much interest in this game. It reminds me of WoW and I am one gamer that is done with the WoW type games. I do like their concept on housing though.
My sub. dollars will be going to FFXIV right now. I have played all the betas and with much improvement, I am hooked. I am one of those MMOers that like story content (great story content) in my MMO. SE has done a great job of reviving the 1.0 model and bringing it back to what I see as one of the greatest MMOs of 2013!
stay on topic!
My problem is mostly the Price... it might not be that much for most people but there's a thing that kinda disgusts me. This Models smells like this for me:
"-Umm yea... the game is released we put so much money in it so lets just have it back fast okay?
-Well, of course we can sell the game for money... lets make it 60 bucks!
-Yea that's fine but more money would be nicer!
-Well... make it 120 then
-Naaah thats too much!
- Well some games charge player for playing the game monthly!
-Cool do that aswell!"
What i mean is there are B2P games cheaper/same box price as this ... and there are P2P games withouth a box price/lower box price and they're GOOD games... but paying the price for the game AND then paying monthly? (and i dont care what people say, after you payed 60 bucks for the first month (not the game, you dont get the game since if you stop paying you cant play it) 15 is a tad too much IMO). If it would be B2P with the same price or P2P with the same monthly fee without the box price, i think it would be fine... but both at the same time? Sounds a bit greedy for me. Well it really doesnt matter for me i'm waiting on EQn and even more on ESO, but it would've been nice to try Wildstar... not at this cost:S (And stop saying that 60 + monthly15 bucks is nothing, it might be in some countries but you forget, they sell it for the same price in countries where people get much less money for their job)
This is absolutely ridiculous. You're trying to paint the whole f2p market with a broad brush. Just because that's swtor's model, doesn't mean it's like that for all mmos. Rift is one example where the f2p model is executed really well. (the only complaint i have about it, is that pre-raid gear is p2w)
The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing. A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation. Notice I said *allows*, not mandates. Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.
http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/final-fantasy-online-director-defends-monthly-subscriptions-in-the-golden-age-of-free-to-play-exclusive/
As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...). But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected. But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar
Here here! What he said.
There goes all my interest for the game!!
Guess Carbine DOES want that embarrassing countdown to F2P conversion. Sad.
Wild Star isn't going for a steady revenue stream. They are trying to go for a cash grab.
a B2P boxed fee
a P2P subscription Fee
a real money transaction option
Talk about double dipping.
They probably know all to well, they can't sustain that indefinitely. and will alter the boxed fee or the sub fee or implement a Cash Shop at some point.
If this game turns out to have an awesome endgame, I'd be willing to pay the $60, I'd pay the $15/mo. But I pull the breaks on RMT.
People on this topic generally comment based on their own personal preferences for the type of pay model. This varies widely of course but it really not very important.
The important thing is that it is almost impossible to imagine that a somewhat odd looking game from an generally unknown developer based on an original IP is going to be able to attract a lot of people willing to pay a hefty box price plus a monthly sub.
When was the last time a game with an unknown IP succeeded with this pay model, even for the short term? City of Heroes? That was 8 years ago. A lot has changed since then. There are a LOT more gaming options out there, many at very low prices.
The Wildstar developers are delusional. They seem to think they are Blizzard circa 2005.
A little extra time spent on development if the Game needs it won't go a miss. I guess the we want it now crowd will whine , and it gives the why isn't it using the imaginary free to pay/play model.
Good games especially MMOs are far and few between these days so if they can pack in some extra content or improved game play elements then it can only benefit the game overall.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Add to that:
Wildstar is Sci-fi, not fantasy (ffivx is)
Wildstar has more action based combat compared to ffivx having the old tab target with 2.5 gcd.
There are more reasons I am sure, but I don't see the difference being raiding or not.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Actually, I wasn't very interested in this game at all, until I read this announcement. Finally a high quality non fantasy MMO where all the F2P only scrubs are weeded out.
Since everyone is making predictions: I predict it will be a couple of years before this game goes F2P. By then I'll be bored of it anyways so I won't matter either way to me.
Now back to your regularly scheduled arguments on the faults of the P2P system.
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"
Yeah..but it makes them the green so..
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"
Thank goodness, finally a game worth playing without p2w, freeloaders and cash shop.
Thank you, Carbine.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
umm, you can basically buy in game currency with money...Of course there is always the possibility that in game money wont be that important.
Standard Box: $59.99
Subscription Fee
1 Month 14.99
3 Months 41.97
6 Months 77.94
12 Months 131.88
C.R.E.D.D.
$19.99
PAY 2 WIN! (Diablo 3 RMAH) (9000 Gold Farmers in coming...)
In game AH to sell and buy in-game gold for REAL MONEY!
Microtransaction Purchases
Planned for later date.... Yeah $$$$$...
Now how fraking stupid do they think people are, moooo cash cows (yes you), this game will not last long at all.... Basically your throwing at least $200 USD away for a game that will go Free 2 Play in a year.
Signature...
Gotta say I like it. I'm so tired of F2P games where they are always nit picking you for everything in game. Oh want a bag? $20. Want to add another character slot, $20. Whoa 15 slots in the bank not enough add another 15 only $20. Want to reskin your armor with another set? You guessed it $20.....
Seems like now days F2P games are costing you more to play and P2P. Then there is the quality angle. Most F2P games are not innovative and not very good. Slap some graphics a few quests and a couple features and you got a new MMO. Maybe I've become synical but quality seems to be all about flash and not about content.
The good news is what I've read on wildstar it sounds like they are looking to make quality important and to actually setup a model where they are going to put it on the line and earn my monthly subscription. They want to keep me by delivering me monthly services at a reasonable rate...
Free is too good to be true and I'm tired of countless lackluster free games...
Now I will exclude GW2 at least so far it seems like a good game.
---
Ethion