But as you can see, P2P is a gamble either way. You have to assume all these number will match up, if they do not, you can potentially lose a lot more money in comparison to having gone B2P right away.
I am not saying this WILL happen, I am saying if it plays out like most of all P2P games before it, chances are high. You assume many people will still buy the game even with it being P2P, I assume this will not be the case. Again, go take a look around the net and read the comments. I see a lot of people deciding to skip this game because of this move. A lot of people saying the same thing as me.
As for me not reading about the industry. PLEASE, I read it everyday >.>
The industry news is littered with these type of articles all the time.
I am not a fan of F2P. I think B2P, with a cash shop for aesthetics is the best model. Then you release a DLC once in a while to keep it going. It's not a model used a lot, but it did work with GW and GW2. Actually it worked really really well. A heck of a lot better then most P2P games.
If there are 5 doors, and the second door only had 2 people go in it, and the other doors all had 100 people go in it, but in each case besides the second door, the people never returned .. which door would you choose? Ya .. only 2 people tried the second door, but it has the less risk because the other doors have been tried so many times before it .. we already know what happens.
That's not the industry, mate. That's media. You're not in the industry and the numbers you and I made up are pointless since we have no idea how long the game will last.
That site is used by industry professionals actually. It was recommended that I sign up for it by my college teacher at The Art Institute. It even lists current jobs in the industry. In order to even comment you need to work in the industry. But whatever you say.
Developers are going to have to start making decent MMOs to make a living now.
Players are going to have to start realizing that decent game cost money to play.
Those are both true. Dev studios have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make AAA titles and that has to change. The lavish spending is just too much.
I think gamers understand that games cost money. I just bought Skyrim for my son. It cost me $60 for the game and all the DLC packs. It wasn't a surprise or a problem, but there is a huge difference between paying and renting, or having a never ending bill. The last thing many, if not most adults, want is another monthly bill. I don't want another bill. None of my family or friends do.
It would cost me about $200 (box fees) plus $45 per month to play this game in my house. It's not going to happen. That money will get spent elsewhere on other games. They are now making me choose and want me to fully commit a big chunk of my gaming budget solely to them. That is also not going to happen.
My other sub-free games (GW2, Tera, Rift, etc) don't make me choose whether I'm going to spend money on them. No single one gets my full gaming budget, but they all get some money over the course of the year.
The interesting thing to watch will be, are there enough P2P players to fund three new AAA titles releasing in such a short time of each other. It's only $15 per month if you only ever play one game, but how many people are willing to sub and how many games are they willing to subsidize?
Have you ever heard of WoW?
But seriously, lets take this one website as an example, there are just as many people here that support the P2P model as there are people against it.
If this is any indicator, then the answer is a whopping YES, there will be more than enough people willing to pay the sub for a good MMO.
All they have to do is deliver, the player base, is now rock solid.
Well any passing interest in this game I had (and I was still very on the fence about this game), has been lost now. Perhaps I'll check you out when you go f2p. I do not have a problem paying a sub, but in todays age a game really has to justify it to me. I just don't see that with ESO. Best of luck to this round of p2p games, we've been down this road before, perhaps this time lessons will be learned. I'll be saving my 15 a month for something a bit more tailored to my families wants.
Originally posted by Piiritus P2P is great and now I'll buy the game. This pricing model is a good barrier to keep off both kiddies and psychos. Well, at least some of them anyway.
And yet WoW which is characterized as the most immature kiddo community or EVE that is the most psycho community both of which are P2P.
Business model has no deterrent affect on who plays the game.
As for the topic at hand... I am very surprised. EQN which everyone is clamoring over is F2P. EQN which I have a lot of criticism over still looks very good and will rival WS and ESO easily. ESO going P2P reeks of what SWTOR did and that was pretty much using their IP for a quick sale and then going F2P when subs reached a certain low point.
And what is their justification for P2P? WS I can see with "monthly content additions" but what is ESO offering?
Well put another MMO on the list for a "wait n see" outcome. Pathfinder Online is bout the only MMO I will pay a sub for since they are doing so much above and beyond at least conceptually.
Developers are going to have to start making decent MMOs to make a living now.
Players are going to have to start realizing that decent game cost money to play.
Those are both true. Dev studios have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make AAA titles and that has to change. The lavish spending is just too much.
I think gamers understand that games cost money. I just bought Skyrim for my son. It cost me $60 for the game and all the DLC packs. It wasn't a surprise or a problem, but there is a huge difference between paying and renting, or having a never ending bill. The last thing many, if not most adults, want is another monthly bill. I don't want another bill. None of my family or friends do.
It would cost me about $200 (box fees) plus $45 per month to play this game in my house. It's not going to happen. That money will get spent elsewhere on other games. They are now making me choose and want me to fully commit a big chunk of my gaming budget solely to them. That is also not going to happen.
My other sub-free games (GW2, Tera, Rift, etc) don't make me choose whether I'm going to spend money on them. No single one gets my full gaming budget, but they all get some money over the course of the year.
The interesting thing to watch will be, are there enough P2P players to fund three new AAA titles releasing in such a short time of each other. It's only $15 per month if you only ever play one game, but how many people are willing to sub and how many games are they willing to subsidize?
Have you ever heard of WoW?
But seriously, lets take this one website as an example, there are just as many people here that support the P2P model as there are people against it.
If this is any indicator, then the answer is a whopping YES, there will be more than enough people willing to pay the sub for a good MMO.
All they have to do is deliver, the player base, is now rock solid.
WoW is old and one of the only games that actually managed to pull off the P2P model as well as it did. EVE also did a decent job but is also actually pretty old too. There really has not been a game since that has done the P2P model with success.
This isn't the first time this has happened, yet it seems like the P2P supporters act like it is. Don't base judgement on this site alone, by the apparent supporters. Look at all passed MMOs that tried and failed. It's a very clear indication how this is going to end up.
Heck the overall response around the net, is bad. Most people think it's a mistake. This one website, as you so say, is not a very clear indication really. I suggest you look at other sites, and others responses. It isn't very good. A lot of people are already saying they are going to pass this game up now, while before they would have purchased it for a 1 time fee.
What do you guys think? Is it a dealbreaker for you, are you happy there will be no cash shop?
I think it was expected.
Company wants to make an MMO.
Company cant get backing to make the game they want so instead uses a well known IP.
Company misses its target both ways, with IPs fans and with the original base designed games fans.
Company then tries to back away from the MMO genre label to regain the IPs fanbase.
Company angers both sides yet again with their cheap attempt that comes up short on both fronts.
Game becomes something that isn't either an MMORPG or a game that targets most of the IPs fans
Company choses to go with an MMO pay system while still trying ever harder to make the game sound like its just another game for the IP, only multiplayer.
Company misses the mark yet again, proving there is no end to the amount a company can royally FUBAR something.
With their many attempts to bring in TES fans by trying to push the game off as a TES multiplayer game, a pay model only proves their heads are up something that doesn't smell good. Once TES fans see the graphics are terrible, the animations are really bad, the story is bland and the game lacks the depth of the TES games...lol. SWTOR 2.0, good sales at the start because of the name, little player retention because of the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
"Eventuell wird es später Rabatte oder Ähnliches geben, aber fürs Erste freuen wir uns, dass wir nun endlich unser Bezahlmodell bekannt geben können. Es ist ganz simpel: Die Spieler zahlen einmal pro Monat nach den ersten 30 Tagen und das komplette Spiel steht ihnen zur Verfügung."
They are already anticipating cheaper sub and maybe other payment methods. So my tip : wait untill they lower prices:p If most of you wait, this will be sooner rather then later
Also the interviewer didn't even ask if the game will have a cash shop. Maybe you will get access to the cash shop with your sub included too
But seriously, lets take this one website as an example, there are just as many people here that support the P2P model as there are people against it.
If this is any indicator, then the answer is a whopping YES, there will be more than enough people willing to pay the sub for a good MMO.
The market is the indicator and the market proves there are far far more people playing non-sub games and far more money in it.
But please PLEASE keep clinging to the past. It will make sure that in another 4-5 years Western companies will be leaving this genre because they cant compete with Korean companies that are making far more money and producing better and better free games which is only going to skyrocket since almost all of them are opening offices in America and Europe so their future games will have not only Asian themes, but world themes and game design aspects.
Blizzard is the ONLY Western company that has a small understanding of the importance of the east and even they are losing ground, their next project will tell weather or not they grasp the new market that has started taking over in the last 5 years.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Well any passing interest in this game I had (and I was still very on the fence about this game), has been lost now. Perhaps I'll check you out when you go f2p. I do not have a problem paying a sub, but in todays age a game really has to justify it to me. I just don't see that with ESO. Best of luck to this round of p2p games, we've been down this road before, perhaps this time lessons will be learned. I'll be saving my 15 a month for something a bit more tailored to my families wants.
Let me ask you this. If ESO released a DLC sized chunk of content each month as justification for that sub would you than pay for it?
For me as long as they can keep the content coming I don't see any issue with paying a sub for it. The problem I have with subbing to a game like TSW is that content is 3-4 months apart or more so you end up paying more for it by subscription than you do just spending the $10-$15 when it's released. Of course subbing to a game like TSW gives you other things as well but for me personally overall I don't feel like the value is there.
I won't write off ESO based on a sub until we see just how serious the developers are about releasing new content.
Well any passing interest in this game I had (and I was still very on the fence about this game), has been lost now. Perhaps I'll check you out when you go f2p. I do not have a problem paying a sub, but in todays age a game really has to justify it to me. I just don't see that with ESO. Best of luck to this round of p2p games, we've been down this road before, perhaps this time lessons will be learned. I'll be saving my 15 a month for something a bit more tailored to my families wants.
Let me ask you this. If ESO released a DLC sized chunk of content each month as justification for that sub would you than pay for it?
For me as long as they can keep the content coming I don't see any issue with paying a sub for it. The problem I have with subbing to a game like TSW is that content is 3-4 months apart or more so you end up paying more for it by subscription than you do just spending the $10-$15 when it's released. Of course subbing to a game like TSW gives you other things as well but for me personally overall I don't feel like the value is there.
I won't write off ESO based on a sub until we see just how serious the developers are about releasing new content.
It's a big deal because you are REQUIRED to pay the $15 a month in order to play a game you technically already payed $60 for. A lot of people really don't like that. A lot of people don't want to have another bill to pay monthly. A lot of people don't want to take the chance of wasting money just to not be able to play the game later because they can't afford the monthly fee.
There are other models they could have used that work, and prevent these issues. Such as B2P with Cosmetic Cashshop.
I would have gladly spent $60 to play this game, but I am sick of P2P games. TERA was the last, and I am not going to waste my money again, just for the game to screw you over and go free to play soon after you spend over $100.
Good. I am just tired of the sheer wreck of community all this F2P does, not to speak of the horrors of giant cash shops the companies are dependent on and thus constantly flood it with trash items, new gear any "shinies".
Good riddance but GOOD!
I REALLY hope they stay with their decision.
B2P, aka Monthly Fee Model, has all the advantages. It is like a flatrate: pay one fee, get it all. Or like having a flatrate for an "all you can eat" restaurant, pay once, eat all you can eat for an entire month! What's not to like!?
Second, it creates a stable community, because you CARE for a game and a character you pay regularly for. You create characters to stay. You dont randomly stumble in and out. F2P just undermines the creation of lasting communities and has so in every MMO turned from B2P to F2P.
Third, it allowes a MUCH more smooth and predictable revenue for the company, and not many ups and downs, which is also good for us, the gamers.
Fourth, no ingame cash shop coming with tons of absurd fancy people are having, meaning: what people own is what they attained by GAMEPLAY. My robe, my gear, my sword, my pet: I got it because I WORKED for it, not because I poured green into a slot machine! And that is how MMOs SHOULD be: what I have is what I worked hard for. IN the game. No fancy pants, and no advantages. Levelled field for everyone and you get what you work for.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Well any passing interest in this game I had (and I was still very on the fence about this game), has been lost now. Perhaps I'll check you out when you go f2p. I do not have a problem paying a sub, but in todays age a game really has to justify it to me. I just don't see that with ESO. Best of luck to this round of p2p games, we've been down this road before, perhaps this time lessons will be learned. I'll be saving my 15 a month for something a bit more tailored to my families wants.
Let me ask you this. If ESO released a DLC sized chunk of content each month as justification for that sub would you than pay for it?
For me as long as they can keep the content coming I don't see any issue with paying a sub for it. The problem I have with subbing to a game like TSW is that content is 3-4 months apart or more so you end up paying more for it by subscription than you do just spending the $10-$15 when it's released. Of course subbing to a game like TSW gives you other things as well but for me personally overall I don't feel like the value is there.
I won't write off ESO based on a sub until we see just how serious the developers are about releasing new content.
If any game that I was interested in, did add a DLC worth of content every month I could see justifying a sub. However if they were going to do that, they could just as easily go b2p and charge $15 per DLC as single player games do. This would give them their money and it would give a good bet to consumers so if they ever did stop producing you would no longer have to pay. I personally like purchasing things not renting them.
But lets be honest here I have been playing MMO's for what 15 years, I have yet to see a single one add a DLC's worth of content ever month. Most dont even add that amount of content ever aside from paid expansions. It could happen, but I would not bet on it. But a simple answer to your question would be yes, I would consider it.
Good. I am just tired of the sheer wreck of community all this F2P does, not to speak of the horrors of giant cash shops the companies are dependent on and thus constantly flood it with trash items, new gear any "shinies".
Good riddance but GOOD!
I REALLY hope they stay with their decision.
See, I don't understand this mentality. I understand F2P isn't the best model for community, but P2P doesn't necessary make the community any better. What does money have anything to do with weeding out jerks and trolls? I really don't think money has anything to do with that. It just means less people play, so you come across them less.
Also, what makes ESO any different then all the rest of the games that failed at using the P2P model?
People act like, companies change to F2P just out of choice. It's not choice, it's that they HAVE to in order to continue to make a profit.
So saying you hope they stay with their decision doesn't make much sense. Instead hope it actually works for once so they can stay P2P.
I really don't know why people think this model will all of a sudden start to work out of no where. The last time it worked is WoW and EVE .. which doesn't say much anymore.
Edit: By the way, you got it wrong B2P is not monthly fee. That is P2P. B2P is one time fee like guild wars with no monthly fee.
Developers are going to have to start making decent MMOs to make a living now.
Players are going to have to start realizing that decent game cost money to play.
Those are both true. Dev studios have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make AAA titles and that has to change. The lavish spending is just too much.
I think gamers understand that games cost money. I just bought Skyrim for my son. It cost me $60 for the game and all the DLC packs. It wasn't a surprise or a problem, but there is a huge difference between paying and renting, or having a never ending bill. The last thing many, if not most adults, want is another monthly bill. I don't want another bill. None of my family or friends do.
It would cost me about $200 (box fees) plus $45 per month to play this game in my house. It's not going to happen. That money will get spent elsewhere on other games. They are now making me choose and want me to fully commit a big chunk of my gaming budget solely to them. That is also not going to happen.
My other sub-free games (GW2, Tera, Rift, etc) don't make me choose whether I'm going to spend money on them. No single one gets my full gaming budget, but they all get some money over the course of the year.
The interesting thing to watch will be, are there enough P2P players to fund three new AAA titles releasing in such a short time of each other. It's only $15 per month if you only ever play one game, but how many people are willing to sub and how many games are they willing to subsidize?
I think you are basing that decision on the slim pickings we have had for choices. But lets assume there was such a game that could occupy that $200/yr buget. Once upon a time, I had that. I anticipate, I'll have it again in FF14 (Time will tell, but I'm very optimistic)
Then what? What if you got your 200 worth out of one game?
Good. I am just tired of the sheer wreck of community all this F2P does, not to speak of the horrors of giant cash shops the companies are dependent on and thus constantly flood it with trash items, new gear any "shinies".
Good riddance but GOOD!
I REALLY hope they stay with their decision.
See, I don't understand this mentality. I understand F2P isn't the best model for community, but P2P doesn't necessary make the community any better. What does money have anything to do with weeding out jerks and trolls? I really don't think money has anything to do with that. It just means less people play, so you come across them less.
Also, what makes ESO any different then all the rest of the games that failed at using the P2P model?
People act like, companies change to F2P just out of choice. It's not choice, it's that they HAVE to in order to continue to make a profit.
So saying you hope they stay with their decision doesn't make much sense. Instead hope it actually works for once so they can stay P2P.
I really don't know why people think this model will all of a sudden start to work out of no where. The last time it worked is WoW and EVE .. which doesn't say much anymore.
Edit: By the way, you got it wrong B2P is not monthly fee. That is P2P. B2P is one time fee like guild wars with no monthly fee.
Ack, ok. All the 2P-stuff is wrong anyway. There is no such thing as a free game. On average most players pay more.
The evil thing about "F2P", games entirely funded via cash shops is, that over time game companies tend to built the game around the cash shops to always tease you to buy stuff, because that is their sole revenue.
No. I am vividly opposed to the so called "free" to play games which fund themselves over cash shops entirely. They are the bane of MMO gaming and should vanish.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Good. I am just tired of the sheer wreck of community all this F2P does, not to speak of the horrors of giant cash shops the companies are dependent on and thus constantly flood it with trash items, new gear any "shinies".
Good riddance but GOOD!
I REALLY hope they stay with their decision.
See, I don't understand this mentality. I understand F2P isn't the best model for community, but P2P doesn't necessary make the community any better. What does money have anything to do with weeding out jerks and trolls? I really don't think money has anything to do with that. It just means less people play, so you come across them less.
Also, what makes ESO any different then all the rest of the games that failed at using the P2P model?
People act like, companies change to F2P just out of choice. It's not choice, it's that they HAVE to in order to continue to make a profit.
So saying you hope they stay with their decision doesn't make much sense. Instead hope it actually works for once so they can stay P2P.
I really don't know why people think this model will all of a sudden start to work out of no where. The last time it worked is WoW and EVE .. which doesn't say much anymore.
Edit: By the way, you got it wrong B2P is not monthly fee. That is P2P. B2P is one time fee like guild wars with no monthly fee.
Ack, ok. All the 2P-stuff is wrong anyway. There is no such thing as a free game. On average most players pay more.
The evil thing about "F2P", games entirely funded via cash shops is, that over time game companies tend to built the game around the cash shops to always tease you to buy stuff, because that is their sole revenue.
No. I am vividly opposed to the so called "free" to play games which fund themselves over cash shops entirely. They are the bane of MMO gaming and should vanish.
Which is why B2P is best. It works, and causes no problem for anyone really.
I don't like monthly fees, it never seems to work and you end up spending more money then what it ends up being worth because the games that usually are P2P end up going free to play.
I mean what is ESO going to do differently that is all of a sudden going to make this model work?
Well any passing interest in this game I had (and I was still very on the fence about this game), has been lost now. Perhaps I'll check you out when you go f2p. I do not have a problem paying a sub, but in todays age a game really has to justify it to me. I just don't see that with ESO. Best of luck to this round of p2p games, we've been down this road before, perhaps this time lessons will be learned. I'll be saving my 15 a month for something a bit more tailored to my families wants.
Let me ask you this. If ESO released a DLC sized chunk of content each month as justification for that sub would you than pay for it?
For me as long as they can keep the content coming I don't see any issue with paying a sub for it. The problem I have with subbing to a game like TSW is that content is 3-4 months apart or more so you end up paying more for it by subscription than you do just spending the $10-$15 when it's released. Of course subbing to a game like TSW gives you other things as well but for me personally overall I don't feel like the value is there.
I won't write off ESO based on a sub until we see just how serious the developers are about releasing new content.
If any game that I was interested in, did add a DLC worth of content every month I could see justifying a sub.
I couldn't...GW2 gives large updates every month for free and several upcoming Korean games that are damn good quality are planning on doing the same. Heck, even Neverwinter is giving big updates once in a while for free with a very large one coming tomorrow.
The market is evolving, evolve or die. The west isn't doing it which is why they are losing such a large part of the market and cant touch the money being made in Asia.
Western game makers need to start developing their games in a way that they can produce content faster so they can update their games monthly while still working on expansions.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Good. I am just tired of the sheer wreck of community all this F2P does, not to speak of the horrors of giant cash shops the companies are dependent on and thus constantly flood it with trash items, new gear any "shinies".
Good riddance but GOOD!
I REALLY hope they stay with their decision.
B2P, aka Monthly Fee Model, has all the advantages. It is like a flatrate: pay one fee, get it all. Or like having a flatrate for an "all you can eat" restaurant, pay once, eat all you can eat for an entire month! What's not to like!?
Second, it creates a stable community, because you CARE for a game and a character you pay regularly for. You create characters to stay. You dont randomly stumble in and out. F2P just undermines the creation of lasting communities and has so in every MMO turned from B2P to F2P.
Third, it allowes a MUCH more smooth and predictable revenue for the company, and not many ups and downs, which is also good for us, the gamers.
Fourth, no ingame cash shop coming with tons of absurd fancy people are having, meaning: what people own is what they attained by GAMEPLAY. My robe, my gear, my sword, my pet: I got it because I WORKED for it, not because I poured green into a slot machine! And that is how MMOs SHOULD be: what I have is what I worked hard for. IN the game. No fancy pants, and no advantages. Levelled field for everyone and you get what you work for.
Don't forget
Fifth, it eventually goes free to play anyway so everyone gets a shot eventually..
We just went this route with SWtor (an ok game) and The Secret World (A really good game..until it stops), and have they really shown anything in TESO that is fundamentally different than either of those two games? Really? They had the three way pvp but honestly they seem to have watered it down to the point where it makes little real difference.
lets look at the actual features
Our crafting system is very much exploration based.
Hey just like every other MMO since WoW and including wow you have to level up and get to new areas to get new minerals to make more powerful versions of the weapon...ok...nothing special here
We have a megaserver
yea seen this before.
You will be able to get together with your friends/ your all working together/ you get equal payout
really? Wow...never seen that before...oh wait it is every game...ever
Once you hit level 50 that is where the real game opens up
Woa a game based around the endgame.....wait...this sounds familiar...
All it has is the IP, which by the way I love and think they are totally ignoring with its lack of freedom...the whole IP was based around freedom...and they trampled that.
How can you be betrayed? Zenimax never said anything in regards to payment model, so any expectations you have made is based on preference/speculation. So Im not really sure how they can betray you, as they have made no promises or anything.
Why? Because owners of the new system Xbox One and PS4 already have to pay a monthly fee for XBL and PSN, not to mention there will be loads of better games coming out all of the time after ESO releases, that have FREE multiplayer.
Do you really think someone who just bought a new console is going to stick to one game that you have to pay to play? Sure people will play it for a month or so, but when that new IP title comes out for whichever system, ESO will be collecting dust and losing subs..
B2P was an obvious choice for this game to succeed and do well but they blew it.
How can you be betrayed? Zenimax never said anything in regards to payment model, so any expectations you have made is based on preference/speculation. So Im not really sure how they can betray you, as they have made no promises or anything.
I feel betrayed as an TES fan. It's like writing a Warhammer novel about idk...cooking? It just doesn't make sense that TES game is anything but B2P.
You still shouldn't feel betrayed by THIS announcement seeing as how many things about the game already wasn't TES. The game is FUBAR, this announcement only goes in line with the rest. Beside, the animations and combat is horrible and the game lacks depth.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Arskaaa ofc its p2p. skyrim was too and all elder scrolls games.
NO elder scrolls was not p2p. They were B2P (Buy to Play). But the model of a single player game doesnt compare with the model of an mmo that runs on a server. But im sure the game would be more successful as B2P, like GW2 with a decent cosmetic only cash shop.
The only way i would ever pay a sub for ESO is if it offers more freedom, content, and challenge than Skyrim did. Which doesnt seem like it.
B2P was an obvious choice for this game to succeed and do well but they blew it.
ROFL, ya I really have to agree here. It really feels like a derp moment for Zeni.
I am still shocked they decided to choose P2P, but I think I might be even more shocked that there are actually a few people who act like this is choice is so amazing like as if it's new and that this time it will work. You know because it's worked so many times in the past XP.
Comments
That site is used by industry professionals actually. It was recommended that I sign up for it by my college teacher at The Art Institute. It even lists current jobs in the industry. In order to even comment you need to work in the industry. But whatever you say.
Have you ever heard of WoW?
But seriously, lets take this one website as an example, there are just as many people here that support the P2P model as there are people against it.
If this is any indicator, then the answer is a whopping YES, there will be more than enough people willing to pay the sub for a good MMO.
All they have to do is deliver, the player base, is now rock solid.
Well any passing interest in this game I had (and I was still very on the fence about this game), has been lost now. Perhaps I'll check you out when you go f2p. I do not have a problem paying a sub, but in todays age a game really has to justify it to me. I just don't see that with ESO. Best of luck to this round of p2p games, we've been down this road before, perhaps this time lessons will be learned. I'll be saving my 15 a month for something a bit more tailored to my families wants.
And yet WoW which is characterized as the most immature kiddo community or EVE that is the most psycho community both of which are P2P.
Business model has no deterrent affect on who plays the game.
As for the topic at hand... I am very surprised. EQN which everyone is clamoring over is F2P. EQN which I have a lot of criticism over still looks very good and will rival WS and ESO easily. ESO going P2P reeks of what SWTOR did and that was pretty much using their IP for a quick sale and then going F2P when subs reached a certain low point.
And what is their justification for P2P? WS I can see with "monthly content additions" but what is ESO offering?
Well put another MMO on the list for a "wait n see" outcome. Pathfinder Online is bout the only MMO I will pay a sub for since they are doing so much above and beyond at least conceptually.
WoW is old and one of the only games that actually managed to pull off the P2P model as well as it did. EVE also did a decent job but is also actually pretty old too. There really has not been a game since that has done the P2P model with success.
This isn't the first time this has happened, yet it seems like the P2P supporters act like it is. Don't base judgement on this site alone, by the apparent supporters. Look at all passed MMOs that tried and failed. It's a very clear indication how this is going to end up.
Heck the overall response around the net, is bad. Most people think it's a mistake. This one website, as you so say, is not a very clear indication really. I suggest you look at other sites, and others responses. It isn't very good. A lot of people are already saying they are going to pass this game up now, while before they would have purchased it for a 1 time fee.
I think it was expected.
Company wants to make an MMO.
Company cant get backing to make the game they want so instead uses a well known IP.
Company misses its target both ways, with IPs fans and with the original base designed games fans.
Company then tries to back away from the MMO genre label to regain the IPs fanbase.
Company angers both sides yet again with their cheap attempt that comes up short on both fronts.
Game becomes something that isn't either an MMORPG or a game that targets most of the IPs fans
Company choses to go with an MMO pay system while still trying ever harder to make the game sound like its just another game for the IP, only multiplayer.
Company misses the mark yet again, proving there is no end to the amount a company can royally FUBAR something.
With their many attempts to bring in TES fans by trying to push the game off as a TES multiplayer game, a pay model only proves their heads are up something that doesn't smell good. Once TES fans see the graphics are terrible, the animations are really bad, the story is bland and the game lacks the depth of the TES games...lol. SWTOR 2.0, good sales at the start because of the name, little player retention because of the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
"Eventuell wird es später Rabatte oder Ähnliches geben, aber fürs Erste freuen wir uns, dass wir nun endlich unser Bezahlmodell bekannt geben können. Es ist ganz simpel: Die Spieler zahlen einmal pro Monat nach den ersten 30 Tagen und das komplette Spiel steht ihnen zur Verfügung."
They are already anticipating cheaper sub and maybe other payment methods. So my tip : wait untill they lower prices:p If most of you wait, this will be sooner rather then later
Also the interviewer didn't even ask if the game will have a cash shop. Maybe you will get access to the cash shop with your sub included too
The market is the indicator and the market proves there are far far more people playing non-sub games and far more money in it.
But please PLEASE keep clinging to the past. It will make sure that in another 4-5 years Western companies will be leaving this genre because they cant compete with Korean companies that are making far more money and producing better and better free games which is only going to skyrocket since almost all of them are opening offices in America and Europe so their future games will have not only Asian themes, but world themes and game design aspects.
Blizzard is the ONLY Western company that has a small understanding of the importance of the east and even they are losing ground, their next project will tell weather or not they grasp the new market that has started taking over in the last 5 years.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Let me ask you this. If ESO released a DLC sized chunk of content each month as justification for that sub would you than pay for it?
For me as long as they can keep the content coming I don't see any issue with paying a sub for it. The problem I have with subbing to a game like TSW is that content is 3-4 months apart or more so you end up paying more for it by subscription than you do just spending the $10-$15 when it's released. Of course subbing to a game like TSW gives you other things as well but for me personally overall I don't feel like the value is there.
I won't write off ESO based on a sub until we see just how serious the developers are about releasing new content.
It's a big deal because you are REQUIRED to pay the $15 a month in order to play a game you technically already payed $60 for. A lot of people really don't like that. A lot of people don't want to have another bill to pay monthly. A lot of people don't want to take the chance of wasting money just to not be able to play the game later because they can't afford the monthly fee.
There are other models they could have used that work, and prevent these issues. Such as B2P with Cosmetic Cashshop.
I would have gladly spent $60 to play this game, but I am sick of P2P games. TERA was the last, and I am not going to waste my money again, just for the game to screw you over and go free to play soon after you spend over $100.
Good. I am just tired of the sheer wreck of community all this F2P does, not to speak of the horrors of giant cash shops the companies are dependent on and thus constantly flood it with trash items, new gear any "shinies".
Good riddance but GOOD!
I REALLY hope they stay with their decision.
B2P, aka Monthly Fee Model, has all the advantages. It is like a flatrate: pay one fee, get it all. Or like having a flatrate for an "all you can eat" restaurant, pay once, eat all you can eat for an entire month! What's not to like!?
Second, it creates a stable community, because you CARE for a game and a character you pay regularly for. You create characters to stay. You dont randomly stumble in and out. F2P just undermines the creation of lasting communities and has so in every MMO turned from B2P to F2P.
Third, it allowes a MUCH more smooth and predictable revenue for the company, and not many ups and downs, which is also good for us, the gamers.
Fourth, no ingame cash shop coming with tons of absurd fancy people are having, meaning: what people own is what they attained by GAMEPLAY. My robe, my gear, my sword, my pet: I got it because I WORKED for it, not because I poured green into a slot machine! And that is how MMOs SHOULD be: what I have is what I worked hard for. IN the game. No fancy pants, and no advantages. Levelled field for everyone and you get what you work for.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If any game that I was interested in, did add a DLC worth of content every month I could see justifying a sub. However if they were going to do that, they could just as easily go b2p and charge $15 per DLC as single player games do. This would give them their money and it would give a good bet to consumers so if they ever did stop producing you would no longer have to pay. I personally like purchasing things not renting them.
But lets be honest here I have been playing MMO's for what 15 years, I have yet to see a single one add a DLC's worth of content ever month. Most dont even add that amount of content ever aside from paid expansions. It could happen, but I would not bet on it. But a simple answer to your question would be yes, I would consider it.
See, I don't understand this mentality. I understand F2P isn't the best model for community, but P2P doesn't necessary make the community any better. What does money have anything to do with weeding out jerks and trolls? I really don't think money has anything to do with that. It just means less people play, so you come across them less.
Also, what makes ESO any different then all the rest of the games that failed at using the P2P model?
People act like, companies change to F2P just out of choice. It's not choice, it's that they HAVE to in order to continue to make a profit.
So saying you hope they stay with their decision doesn't make much sense. Instead hope it actually works for once so they can stay P2P.
I really don't know why people think this model will all of a sudden start to work out of no where. The last time it worked is WoW and EVE .. which doesn't say much anymore.
Edit: By the way, you got it wrong B2P is not monthly fee. That is P2P. B2P is one time fee like guild wars with no monthly fee.
B2P to me is the best model.
I think you are basing that decision on the slim pickings we have had for choices. But lets assume there was such a game that could occupy that $200/yr buget. Once upon a time, I had that. I anticipate, I'll have it again in FF14 (Time will tell, but I'm very optimistic)
Then what? What if you got your 200 worth out of one game?
Ack, ok. All the 2P-stuff is wrong anyway. There is no such thing as a free game. On average most players pay more.
The evil thing about "F2P", games entirely funded via cash shops is, that over time game companies tend to built the game around the cash shops to always tease you to buy stuff, because that is their sole revenue.
No. I am vividly opposed to the so called "free" to play games which fund themselves over cash shops entirely. They are the bane of MMO gaming and should vanish.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Which is why B2P is best. It works, and causes no problem for anyone really.
I don't like monthly fees, it never seems to work and you end up spending more money then what it ends up being worth because the games that usually are P2P end up going free to play.
I mean what is ESO going to do differently that is all of a sudden going to make this model work?
I couldn't...GW2 gives large updates every month for free and several upcoming Korean games that are damn good quality are planning on doing the same. Heck, even Neverwinter is giving big updates once in a while for free with a very large one coming tomorrow.
The market is evolving, evolve or die. The west isn't doing it which is why they are losing such a large part of the market and cant touch the money being made in Asia.
Western game makers need to start developing their games in a way that they can produce content faster so they can update their games monthly while still working on expansions.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Don't forget
Fifth, it eventually goes free to play anyway so everyone gets a shot eventually..
We just went this route with SWtor (an ok game) and The Secret World (A really good game..until it stops), and have they really shown anything in TESO that is fundamentally different than either of those two games? Really? They had the three way pvp but honestly they seem to have watered it down to the point where it makes little real difference.
lets look at the actual features
Our crafting system is very much exploration based.
Hey just like every other MMO since WoW and including wow you have to level up and get to new areas to get new minerals to make more powerful versions of the weapon...ok...nothing special here
We have a megaserver
yea seen this before.
You will be able to get together with your friends/ your all working together/ you get equal payout
really? Wow...never seen that before...oh wait it is every game...ever
Once you hit level 50 that is where the real game opens up
Woa a game based around the endgame.....wait...this sounds familiar...
All it has is the IP, which by the way I love and think they are totally ignoring with its lack of freedom...the whole IP was based around freedom...and they trampled that.
So...how is this not TSW 2 or SWtor 2?
How can you be betrayed? Zenimax never said anything in regards to payment model, so any expectations you have made is based on preference/speculation. So Im not really sure how they can betray you, as they have made no promises or anything.
This game will fail on consoles.
Why? Because owners of the new system Xbox One and PS4 already have to pay a monthly fee for XBL and PSN, not to mention there will be loads of better games coming out all of the time after ESO releases, that have FREE multiplayer.
Do you really think someone who just bought a new console is going to stick to one game that you have to pay to play? Sure people will play it for a month or so, but when that new IP title comes out for whichever system, ESO will be collecting dust and losing subs..
B2P was an obvious choice for this game to succeed and do well but they blew it.
You still shouldn't feel betrayed by THIS announcement seeing as how many things about the game already wasn't TES. The game is FUBAR, this announcement only goes in line with the rest. Beside, the animations and combat is horrible and the game lacks depth.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
NO elder scrolls was not p2p. They were B2P (Buy to Play). But the model of a single player game doesnt compare with the model of an mmo that runs on a server. But im sure the game would be more successful as B2P, like GW2 with a decent cosmetic only cash shop.
The only way i would ever pay a sub for ESO is if it offers more freedom, content, and challenge than Skyrim did. Which doesnt seem like it.
ROFL, ya I really have to agree here. It really feels like a derp moment for Zeni.
I am still shocked they decided to choose P2P, but I think I might be even more shocked that there are actually a few people who act like this is choice is so amazing like as if it's new and that this time it will work. You know because it's worked so many times in the past XP.