mmorp's are thousands of hours of entertainment (at least they are supposed to be) what sense does it make for it to be b2p which is the same method as a single player console game which gives you 40 hours at best. Yes people dont WANT to pay a monthly sub in theory but to have a well oiled game you play for years and call home thats the way it must be.
How to explain this to you...just because a game is making a profit does not mean it is a good game. I think thats as simple as i can put it so you should be able to understand.
How to explain this to you...just because a game that is coming out is going to have a subscription does not mean its going to be a good game nor make it a game that will become good. I think that's as simple as I can put it so you should be able to understand.
Seriously...there is ZERO reason for a game to have a subscription. Its an antiquated idea and one that is only clung to in order to fleece consumers.
You...im having trouble keep back my insults.
There's 0 reason for a game to have a subscription? Let's see how about making money. I think thats good for games don't you? Subscription is the way to make the most money. Correction, subscription + vanity cash shop(aka WoW) is the way to make the most money.
You have the box sales from B2P. You have subscription fees every month. And you throw in cash shop sales from f2p.
There's every reason for game devs to want their game to be P2P. The problem therein lies with the attractiveness of B2P and the faux-attractiveness to F2P to the consumers. The attractiveness of B2P is that it takes us back to the days of console games where once you bought a game, it was yours, and that was it. No more extra fees and no bullshit like DLC.
The reason i say faux-attractiveness for F2P is in many cases, F2P is not actually free. They design the games to entice people to spend money and its almost like an addiction to a lot of people when it comes to buying shit from the cash shop. Hell even GW2 uses it in their cash shop, though GW2 does it in a way that once people buy the essentials there is 0 need to ever spend anything else in the cash shop(char slots/bank slots/etc). Not going to get into the argument of f2p players don't have to spend money debate.
The reason p2p games have been going f2p is because from a consumer standpoint, P2P is the least attractive payment model plan, HOWEVER, it is also the payment model plan that puts the most stress on developers to constantly provide succinct and quality updates. If they fail to deliver, people will feel its not worth the continued monthly investments and leave.
recent p2p games have failed to deliver. it isn't due to the payment model, its due to the games quality and/or lack of content and/or persisting and everlasting bugs(which really ties into the games quality). It's that simple.
I've explained it out in detail for you. If you still fail to see reason and understand this is how things are, then you are a lost cause and i feel legitimate pity for your parents.
Originally posted by c0exist mmorp's are thousands of hours of entertainment (at least they are supposed to be) what sense does it make for it to be b2p which is the same method as a single player console game which gives you 40 hours at best. Yes people dont WANT to pay a monthly sub in theory but to have a well oiled game you play for years and call home thats the way it must be.
Yep, when I play a F2P MMO it's like those shiny slot machines at the Casino's with car's as rewards for the jackpot. They might be fun for a short time but you would be crazy to sit there and pour money into them for very long because at the end of the day they are just money sinks with flashy lights. The casino knows you won't stick around long so wants to get as much money as possible out of you before you get frustrated and walk away.
P2P is more like a poker room where you sit in comfy chairs and have drinks and food brought to you for free. The casino makes it money per hand so has a vested interest in keeping you at that table as long as possible slowly taking a rake off each hand.
Both work but one is a much more rewarding experience IMO long term. To each their own I guess.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
those reports are not evidence of P2P mmos declining but merely the quality of p2p mmo's have declined and thus as a side effect less people are willing to continue their support for those specific mmos who's quality have lacked that have been p2p which leads them to go to f2p because the game as a whole was not up to par.
That being said, markets will also choose their models based on the hype of the game. Games that start as P2P and end up F2P is mostly because people LOSE INTEREST in the CONTENT and thus don't want to pay to play anymore. Common sense. It isn't that because straight up do not want to play a game anymore cuz it is P2P and they wanna go the cheap route out of the blue. It is because Content lacks, hype falls, and thus the content is no longer of proportional value to a monthly sub.
Or may be they just finish the content.
Plus, content don't exist in a vacuum. If there is free, as good, content out there, why would i play the costly one?
The bottomline is that sub-only games cannot convince players they are better than the free alternative enough to justify $15 a months.
I doubt they can do it in the future, particularly when competition forces even the free games to have better content (since people can jump around even easier).
As I explained, it is all on the community. Also it is up to the individual player. If a company is really sucessful like NCSOFT is in Asia, they are able to keep their content as P2P because the majority of players are still INTERESTED in what the company has to offer. Where in the WEST it is different. We have a multitude of companies releasing games all claiming to be the best for the western gamer, ect. Yet we end up becoming bored of the game after x-amount of time.
Also, free to play games (the ones that start off as so) end up being lower quality as those games that first release as P2P. So to say F2P games are = in QUALITY as P2P games is wrong. Why? Because companies must use money to develop a game. Most F2P company models have investors they must pay back, and thus I could go on a long list of things that happens to both company and game quality because of such.
P2P games on the other hand are a different story. They do not have investors. If so, they are able to pay their investors back FASTER than F2P models and make more money, thus keeping quality content/bringing more faster.
But let's be honest. P2P also caters to a different crowd. Free to Play does not have a care in the world who plays their games. They just want people to buy things from cash shop to make money.
P2P on the other hand is for people who are legitmiately immersed in the game and old/well off economically to play their games. The best way I can describe the two is F2P = Economy class of the plane. P2P = First class. in this type of model.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
those reports are not evidence of P2P mmos declining but merely the quality of p2p mmo's have declined and thus as a side effect less people are willing to continue their support for those specific mmos who's quality have lacked that have been p2p which leads them to go to f2p because the game as a whole was not up to par.
Lol ... if p2p mmos' quality decline, its business declines, as shown in the number.
You can debate why forever but sub-only MMOs are making 9% less money. That i a fact.
Originally posted by uplink4242P2P is as viable as it has always been.
Not according the latest data. It may not be dying out completely, but certainly not as "viable" as before if money is the yardstick.
and in September we will see a spike in P2P subscriptions. Should I make a thread about F2P in decline then? No.
I doubt you can perfectly predict the future.
But if it happens, you should make a thread about p2p sub spiking. Who says p2p sub spiking is always correlated with a f2p decline?
And f2p players number did decline a bit in the latest report, although they make more money. I posted that, didn't i?
Facts are facts.
f2p games making more money than p2p games is not a shock nor a surprise for 2 very simple reasons.
1. people are stupid. i'm not going to elaborate further as i've explained why to many times lately.
2. those reports you seem to regard as pure fact are not actually provin what it is they're reporting. they're merely showing a current trend. there are cycles as someone else said. and you WILL see the wave begin to spike back up from now and into 2014 especially.
and when that happens, no i nor anyone else(but fanatics) will make a post about it because we don't need to justify ourselves or a payment model of mmorpgs to you or anyone else because it doesn't fucking matter.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
those reports are not evidence of P2P mmos declining but merely the quality of p2p mmo's have declined and thus as a side effect less people are willing to continue their support for those specific mmos who's quality have lacked that have been p2p which leads them to go to f2p because the game as a whole was not up to par.
Lol ... if p2p mmos' quality decline, its business declines, as shown in the number.
You can debate why forever but sub-only MMOs are making 9% less money. That i a fact.
read post # 54. if you still dont understand i give up on you as well.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
those reports are not evidence of P2P mmos declining but merely the quality of p2p mmo's have declined and thus as a side effect less people are willing to continue their support for those specific mmos who's quality have lacked that have been p2p which leads them to go to f2p because the game as a whole was not up to par.
Lol ... if p2p mmos' quality decline, its business declines, as shown in the number.
You can debate why forever but sub-only MMOs are making 9% less money. That i a fact.
read post # 54. if you still dont understand i give up on you as well.
You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
those reports are not evidence of P2P mmos declining but merely the quality of p2p mmo's have declined and thus as a side effect less people are willing to continue their support for those specific mmos who's quality have lacked that have been p2p which leads them to go to f2p because the game as a whole was not up to par.
Lol ... if p2p mmos' quality decline, its business declines, as shown in the number.
You can debate why forever but sub-only MMOs are making 9% less money. That i a fact.
read post # 54. if you still dont understand i give up on you as well.
You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
Thats what i thought. Lol
No more response? I suppose you can't deny the fact of a 9% decline of sub-only MMO revenue in July.
Wise-choice. Admitting facts is the first step to enlightenment.
You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
Thats what i thought. Lol
No more response? I suppose you can't deny the fact of a 9% decline of sub-only MMO revenue in July.
Wise-choice. Admitting facts is the first step to enlightenment.
Already explained the 9% decline in a report was just a trend and the reason for the trend, its your choice to be willfully ignorant. Hence my "thats what i thought" comment. And the lol was because i find it amusing that you're so predictable.
You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
Thats what i thought. Lol
No more response? I suppose you can't deny the fact of a 9% decline of sub-only MMO revenue in July.
Wise-choice. Admitting facts is the first step to enlightenment.
July?
Naw, noone ever goes out and has a life during the summertime. OH WAIT!! thats just you!
*chuckles*
O
Destiny has cheated me By forcing me to decide upon The woman that I idolise Or the hands of an automaton
Without these hands I can't complete The opera that was captivating her But if I keep them, and she marries him Then he probably won't want me dating her
Not according the latest data. It may not be dying out completely, but certainly not as "viable" as before if money is the yardstick.
I'm not sure the F2P bandwagon has been around long enough to really draw long term conclusions about it's viability.
Really? Cause the first F2P game was back in 1996 and made over 1 billion dollars, yes DOLLARs, for Nexon since its release. Hell, even NWNO made another 100 million after coming back after being shut down for 6 years which more than likely was even before you knew what an MMO even was.
Freemium is not viable, it has not gained any ground at all in the F2P market, just from the sub market...which is losing ground to F2P and even to B2P.
[mod edit- fixed text format]
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by SirBongsAlot so they can keep the kiddies and immature people away, its a good thing.... Id go P2P anytime over going F2P or B2P...
this comments really should stop popping in life. It only makes you look bad yourself. Mention 1 subscription mmo that doesnt have "adults" with immature and kiddie behavior ?... mention one and you are free of sin.
If i had a dollar for every immature "adult" that plays subscription mmos i would be millionaire. They are everywhere. Pretending that P2P is free from immaturity only makes you look silly.
They chose P2P for a reason, any reason, but not the one you said.
There's 0 reason for a game to have a subscription? Let's see how about making money. I think thats good for games don't you? Subscription is the way to make the most money. Correction, subscription + vanity cash shop(aka WoW) is the way to make the most money.
You have the box sales from B2P. You have subscription fees every month. And you throw in cash shop sales from f2p.
There's every reason for game devs to want their game to be P2P. The problem therein lies with the attractiveness of B2P and the faux-attractiveness to F2P to the consumers. The attractiveness of B2P is that it takes us back to the days of console games where once you bought a game, it was yours, and that was it. No more extra fees and no bullshit like DLC.
The reason i say faux-attractiveness for F2P is in many cases, F2P is not actually free. They design the games to entice people to spend money and its almost like an addiction to a lot of people when it comes to buying shit from the cash shop. Hell even GW2 uses it in their cash shop, though GW2 does it in a way that once people buy the essentials there is 0 need to ever spend anything else in the cash shop(char slots/bank slots/etc). Not going to get into the argument of f2p players don't have to spend money debate.
The reason p2p games have been going f2p is because from a consumer standpoint, P2P is the least attractive payment model plan, HOWEVER, it is also the payment model plan that puts the most stress on developers to constantly provide succinct and quality updates. If they fail to deliver, people will feel its not worth the continued monthly investments and leave.
recent p2p games have failed to deliver. it isn't due to the payment model, its due to the games quality and/or lack of content and/or persisting and everlasting bugs(which really ties into the games quality). It's that simple.
I've explained it out in detail for you. If you still fail to see reason and understand this is how things are, then you are a lost cause and i feel legitimate pity for your parents.
lol, your entire argument is based on WoW....and only WoW because it is the ONLY SUBSCRIPTION BASED MMO that tops the money ACTUAL F2P games make.
THE ONLY ONE.
There is NOT A SINGLE other subscription based MMO that made more money than the top 5 F2P games in HISTORY. and the next top 5 F2P games made near as much as any other subscription based MMO you can name.
Oh wait, you think Nexon posting profits of over 1 billion dollars a year, just over 70% of it coming from its F2P games is a lie? That the 300 million a year coming from Atlantica Online, allowing NDoors to start buying out companies left and right is what? A lie?
Just because you know nothing about the MMO world outside the west? LOL...
Your explanations in detail, is lacking DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC. I don't need to hold back insults...your posts are insulting you enough. Western companies are sticking with the sub model at the start because they know there are just enough people like you that they can fleece to get their investment back before going with the model they wlll need to survive, and they still wont touch what is made in the East with a real F2P model.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
Thats what i thought. Lol
No more response? I suppose you can't deny the fact of a 9% decline of sub-only MMO revenue in July.
Wise-choice. Admitting facts is the first step to enlightenment.
All you did was prove how stats can be manipulated in various ways.
The fact is, the P2P model is coming back, and so is many of the other "old" MMO mechanics, like 3 faction PvP. They are coming back because that's what the players want.
You had your chance to prove F2P was the future, you had your chance to prove that PvE players was the "real" base for MMOs. These were the excuses used, and the last half dozen MMOs reflected what YOU wanted.
And you have failed, all those MMOs failed....
Now just admit you lost and go back to Aion, or Rift or whatever.
There's 0 reason for a game to have a subscription? Let's see how about making money. I think thats good for games don't you? Subscription is the way to make the most money. Correction, subscription + vanity cash shop(aka WoW) is the way to make the most money.
You have the box sales from B2P. You have subscription fees every month. And you throw in cash shop sales from f2p.
There's every reason for game devs to want their game to be P2P. The problem therein lies with the attractiveness of B2P and the faux-attractiveness to F2P to the consumers. The attractiveness of B2P is that it takes us back to the days of console games where once you bought a game, it was yours, and that was it. No more extra fees and no bullshit like DLC.
The reason i say faux-attractiveness for F2P is in many cases, F2P is not actually free. They design the games to entice people to spend money and its almost like an addiction to a lot of people when it comes to buying shit from the cash shop. Hell even GW2 uses it in their cash shop, though GW2 does it in a way that once people buy the essentials there is 0 need to ever spend anything else in the cash shop(char slots/bank slots/etc). Not going to get into the argument of f2p players don't have to spend money debate.
The reason p2p games have been going f2p is because from a consumer standpoint, P2P is the least attractive payment model plan, HOWEVER, it is also the payment model plan that puts the most stress on developers to constantly provide succinct and quality updates. If they fail to deliver, people will feel its not worth the continued monthly investments and leave.
recent p2p games have failed to deliver. it isn't due to the payment model, its due to the games quality and/or lack of content and/or persisting and everlasting bugs(which really ties into the games quality). It's that simple.
I've explained it out in detail for you. If you still fail to see reason and understand this is how things are, then you are a lost cause and i feel legitimate pity for your parents.
lol, your entire argument is based on WoW....and only WoW because it is the ONLY SUBSCRIPTION BASED MMO that tops the money ACTUAL F2P games make.
THE ONLY ONE.
There is NOT A SINGLE other subscription based MMO that made more money than the top 5 F2P games in HISTORY. and the next top 5 F2P games made near as much as any other subscription based MMO you can name.
Oh wait, you think Nexon posting profits of over 1 billion dollars a year, just over 70% of it coming from its F2P games is a lie? That the 300 million a year coming from Atlantica Online, allowing NDoors to start buying out companies left and right is what? A lie?
Just because you know nothing about the MMO world outside the west? LOL...
Your explanations in detail, is lacking DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC. I don't need to hold back insults...your posts are insulting you enough. Western companies are sticking with the sub model at the start because they know there are just enough people like you that they can fleece to get their investment back before going with the model they wlll need to survive, and they still wont touch what is made in the East with a real F2P model.
The garbage F2P games make a lot of money... still trash
You think because there are a lot of morons in the world that makes those games better? P2P cheaper if you want to play a game long term. Has any of the Top 5 f2p games lasted as long as any P2P?
if markets and financials make you decide what to play that's very sad.
There's 0 reason for a game to have a subscription? Let's see how about making money. I think thats good for games don't you? Subscription is the way to make the most money. Correction, subscription + vanity cash shop(aka WoW) is the way to make the most money.
You have the box sales from B2P. You have subscription fees every month. And you throw in cash shop sales from f2p.
There's every reason for game devs to want their game to be P2P. The problem therein lies with the attractiveness of B2P and the faux-attractiveness to F2P to the consumers. The attractiveness of B2P is that it takes us back to the days of console games where once you bought a game, it was yours, and that was it. No more extra fees and no bullshit like DLC.
The reason i say faux-attractiveness for F2P is in many cases, F2P is not actually free. They design the games to entice people to spend money and its almost like an addiction to a lot of people when it comes to buying shit from the cash shop. Hell even GW2 uses it in their cash shop, though GW2 does it in a way that once people buy the essentials there is 0 need to ever spend anything else in the cash shop(char slots/bank slots/etc). Not going to get into the argument of f2p players don't have to spend money debate.
The reason p2p games have been going f2p is because from a consumer standpoint, P2P is the least attractive payment model plan, HOWEVER, it is also the payment model plan that puts the most stress on developers to constantly provide succinct and quality updates. If they fail to deliver, people will feel its not worth the continued monthly investments and leave.
recent p2p games have failed to deliver. it isn't due to the payment model, its due to the games quality and/or lack of content and/or persisting and everlasting bugs(which really ties into the games quality). It's that simple.
I've explained it out in detail for you. If you still fail to see reason and understand this is how things are, then you are a lost cause and i feel legitimate pity for your parents.
lol, your entire argument is based on WoW....and only WoW because it is the ONLY SUBSCRIPTION BASED MMO that tops the money ACTUAL F2P games make.
THE ONLY ONE.
There is NOT A SINGLE other subscription based MMO that made more money than the top 5 F2P games in HISTORY. and the next top 5 F2P games made near as much as any other subscription based MMO you can name.
Oh wait, you think Nexon posting profits of over 1 billion dollars a year, just over 70% of it coming from its F2P games is a lie? That the 300 million a year coming from Atlantica Online, allowing NDoors to start buying out companies left and right is what? A lie?
Just because you know nothing about the MMO world outside the west? LOL...
Your explanations in detail, is lacking DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC. I don't need to hold back insults...your posts are insulting you enough. Western companies are sticking with the sub model at the start because they know there are just enough people like you that they can fleece to get their investment back before going with the model they wlll need to survive, and they still wont touch what is made in the East with a real F2P model.
You have to be trolling me if you think my entire argument is based on WoW. I only mentioned WoW one time as an example of an mmo that is p2p and has a vaniy cash shop with box sales. Since you just read the first paragraph of my post and disregarded the rest i shall do the same to you and disregard the rest of your entire post.
Why do they even try or bother with P2P, why not make it B2P at release. Most likely all of the new mmorpgs that are P2P will go over to B2P or F2P in a few months. No one wants to pay monthly for a game, there's a few who would but those are a minority and the majority wins every time and still developers want P2P. For what reason?
It is about maximizing revenue.
Initial purchase requirements are about getting as much up front as possible, before they see the game. This is classic P2P, and it is driven by marketting hype.
Monthly Subs are about getting as much as possible from limited content. Content takes time to make, and if you are a thempark game, players consume the content, then leave. Sure, you can put in a lot of artificial time sinks, but this only makes the monthly sub more viable, as you are just trying to get their money before they realize that there is nothing to do, and get bored.
An initial purchase price + monthly sub is a great way to maximize profit for games that are PVE/Thempark based. This is how they try to get as much money as possble out of the content that they have created. This usually works for a while, then if they can not create content fast enough, they convert to F2P (and still push monthly subs). If that doesnt work, they retool for more player based content, and monetize with microtransactions.
It is all about what the strengths/weakness of the game are.
Trion created new content for Rift very fast and still they went F2P. I doubt it has anything to do with that, the only thing in my mind is people don't want to pay a monthly fee to play a game. WoW has lost 4-6 million players over a few years, it had 12 million as most and now it's down to 6-8 millions.
You won't make a decent profit with P2P, B2P is the best way and F2P is good for stupid developers who already released their game as P2P and then convert to F2P.
I don't think you realize that a P2P game doesn't have to have millions of players to be successful. EvE does great with 500k players. Many people like me are thrilled that there are more subscription games coming out because it means I don't have to be nickel and dimed to death. GW2 is a B2P game, but guess what? They also have RNG/Gacha like chests that they sell in their cash shop that tick a lot of people off. I don't want to deal with those kinds of cash shops so the subscription model making a return is some of the best MMO news I've heard in awhile.
I don't think you realize that a P2P game doesn't have to have millions of players to be successful. EvE does great with 500k players. Many people like me are thrilled that there are more subscription games coming out because it means I don't have to be nickel and dimed to death. GW2 is a B2P game, but guess what? They also have RNG/Gacha like chests that they sell in their cash shop that tick a lot of people off. I don't want to deal with those kinds of cash shops so the subscription model making a return is some of the best MMO news I've heard in awhile.
Great. You go play those games.
I play free games for fun. It is not like there will be a lack of F2P games just because a few sub-only games are being made. Plus, sooner or later, they will become f2p anyway.
So we both have games to play. The gaming market works.
Comments
You...im having trouble keep back my insults.
There's 0 reason for a game to have a subscription? Let's see how about making money. I think thats good for games don't you? Subscription is the way to make the most money. Correction, subscription + vanity cash shop(aka WoW) is the way to make the most money.
You have the box sales from B2P. You have subscription fees every month. And you throw in cash shop sales from f2p.
There's every reason for game devs to want their game to be P2P. The problem therein lies with the attractiveness of B2P and the faux-attractiveness to F2P to the consumers. The attractiveness of B2P is that it takes us back to the days of console games where once you bought a game, it was yours, and that was it. No more extra fees and no bullshit like DLC.
The reason i say faux-attractiveness for F2P is in many cases, F2P is not actually free. They design the games to entice people to spend money and its almost like an addiction to a lot of people when it comes to buying shit from the cash shop. Hell even GW2 uses it in their cash shop, though GW2 does it in a way that once people buy the essentials there is 0 need to ever spend anything else in the cash shop(char slots/bank slots/etc). Not going to get into the argument of f2p players don't have to spend money debate.
The reason p2p games have been going f2p is because from a consumer standpoint, P2P is the least attractive payment model plan, HOWEVER, it is also the payment model plan that puts the most stress on developers to constantly provide succinct and quality updates. If they fail to deliver, people will feel its not worth the continued monthly investments and leave.
recent p2p games have failed to deliver. it isn't due to the payment model, its due to the games quality and/or lack of content and/or persisting and everlasting bugs(which really ties into the games quality). It's that simple.
I've explained it out in detail for you. If you still fail to see reason and understand this is how things are, then you are a lost cause and i feel legitimate pity for your parents.
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Yep, when I play a F2P MMO it's like those shiny slot machines at the Casino's with car's as rewards for the jackpot. They might be fun for a short time but you would be crazy to sit there and pour money into them for very long because at the end of the day they are just money sinks with flashy lights. The casino knows you won't stick around long so wants to get as much money as possible out of you before you get frustrated and walk away.
P2P is more like a poker room where you sit in comfy chairs and have drinks and food brought to you for free. The casino makes it money per hand so has a vested interest in keeping you at that table as long as possible slowly taking a rake off each hand.
Both work but one is a much more rewarding experience IMO long term. To each their own I guess.
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As I explained, it is all on the community. Also it is up to the individual player. If a company is really sucessful like NCSOFT is in Asia, they are able to keep their content as P2P because the majority of players are still INTERESTED in what the company has to offer. Where in the WEST it is different. We have a multitude of companies releasing games all claiming to be the best for the western gamer, ect. Yet we end up becoming bored of the game after x-amount of time.
Also, free to play games (the ones that start off as so) end up being lower quality as those games that first release as P2P. So to say F2P games are = in QUALITY as P2P games is wrong. Why? Because companies must use money to develop a game. Most F2P company models have investors they must pay back, and thus I could go on a long list of things that happens to both company and game quality because of such.
P2P games on the other hand are a different story. They do not have investors. If so, they are able to pay their investors back FASTER than F2P models and make more money, thus keeping quality content/bringing more faster.
But let's be honest. P2P also caters to a different crowd. Free to Play does not have a care in the world who plays their games. They just want people to buy things from cash shop to make money.
P2P on the other hand is for people who are legitmiately immersed in the game and old/well off economically to play their games. The best way I can describe the two is F2P = Economy class of the plane. P2P = First class. in this type of model.
I doubt you can perfectly predict the future.
But if it happens, you should make a thread about p2p sub spiking. Who says p2p sub spiking is always correlated with a f2p decline?
And f2p players number did decline a bit in the latest report, although they make more money. I posted that, didn't i?
Facts are facts.
Lol ... if p2p mmos' quality decline, its business declines, as shown in the number.
You can debate why forever but sub-only MMOs are making 9% less money. That i a fact.
f2p games making more money than p2p games is not a shock nor a surprise for 2 very simple reasons.
1. people are stupid. i'm not going to elaborate further as i've explained why to many times lately.
2. those reports you seem to regard as pure fact are not actually provin what it is they're reporting. they're merely showing a current trend. there are cycles as someone else said. and you WILL see the wave begin to spike back up from now and into 2014 especially.
and when that happens, no i nor anyone else(but fanatics) will make a post about it because we don't need to justify ourselves or a payment model of mmorpgs to you or anyone else because it doesn't fucking matter.
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read post # 54. if you still dont understand i give up on you as well.
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You are just finding excuses. And a bunch of stuff about F2P is irrelevant.
Fact is, sub-only MMO lost 9% revenue in July. Do you deny that? It may be f2p is eating its lunch. It may be somethign else and has nothing to do with f2p. But the bottomline is the sub-only MMO further declines and it has been in decline for a long time.
Thats what i thought. Lol
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No more response? I suppose you can't deny the fact of a 9% decline of sub-only MMO revenue in July.
Wise-choice. Admitting facts is the first step to enlightenment.
Already explained the 9% decline in a report was just a trend and the reason for the trend, its your choice to be willfully ignorant. Hence my "thats what i thought" comment. And the lol was because i find it amusing that you're so predictable.
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July?
Naw, noone ever goes out and has a life during the summertime. OH WAIT!! thats just you!
*chuckles*
O
Destiny has cheated me
By forcing me to decide upon
The woman that I idolise
Or the hands of an automaton
Without these hands I can't complete
The opera that was captivating her
But if I keep them, and she marries him
Then he probably won't want me dating her
Really? Cause the first F2P game was back in 1996 and made over 1 billion dollars, yes DOLLARs, for Nexon since its release. Hell, even NWNO made another 100 million after coming back after being shut down for 6 years which more than likely was even before you knew what an MMO even was.
Freemium is not viable, it has not gained any ground at all in the F2P market, just from the sub market...which is losing ground to F2P and even to B2P.
[mod edit- fixed text format]
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
this comments really should stop popping in life. It only makes you look bad yourself. Mention 1 subscription mmo that doesnt have "adults" with immature and kiddie behavior ?... mention one and you are free of sin.
If i had a dollar for every immature "adult" that plays subscription mmos i would be millionaire. They are everywhere. Pretending that P2P is free from immaturity only makes you look silly.
They chose P2P for a reason, any reason, but not the one you said.
lol, your entire argument is based on WoW....and only WoW because it is the ONLY SUBSCRIPTION BASED MMO that tops the money ACTUAL F2P games make.
THE ONLY ONE.
There is NOT A SINGLE other subscription based MMO that made more money than the top 5 F2P games in HISTORY. and the next top 5 F2P games made near as much as any other subscription based MMO you can name.
Oh wait, you think Nexon posting profits of over 1 billion dollars a year, just over 70% of it coming from its F2P games is a lie? That the 300 million a year coming from Atlantica Online, allowing NDoors to start buying out companies left and right is what? A lie?
Just because you know nothing about the MMO world outside the west? LOL...
Your explanations in detail, is lacking DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC. I don't need to hold back insults...your posts are insulting you enough. Western companies are sticking with the sub model at the start because they know there are just enough people like you that they can fleece to get their investment back before going with the model they wlll need to survive, and they still wont touch what is made in the East with a real F2P model.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
All you did was prove how stats can be manipulated in various ways.
The fact is, the P2P model is coming back, and so is many of the other "old" MMO mechanics, like 3 faction PvP. They are coming back because that's what the players want.
You had your chance to prove F2P was the future, you had your chance to prove that PvE players was the "real" base for MMOs. These were the excuses used, and the last half dozen MMOs reflected what YOU wanted.
And you have failed, all those MMOs failed....
Now just admit you lost and go back to Aion, or Rift or whatever.
The garbage F2P games make a lot of money... still trash
You think because there are a lot of morons in the world that makes those games better? P2P cheaper if you want to play a game long term. Has any of the Top 5 f2p games lasted as long as any P2P?
if markets and financials make you decide what to play that's very sad.
This whole thing is pretty amusing.
Dont worry f2pers, you will always have Nexon and Perfect World games to play as well as the P2P games that arent liked enough to stay sub based.
You have to be trolling me if you think my entire argument is based on WoW. I only mentioned WoW one time as an example of an mmo that is p2p and has a vaniy cash shop with box sales. Since you just read the first paragraph of my post and disregarded the rest i shall do the same to you and disregard the rest of your entire post.
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I don't think anyone is worrying.
There are so many f2p fun games that the only thing i worry about is the lack of time.
It is just amusing to see so many try to hard to stick their head in the sand and refuse to see that sub-only games are no longer the trend.
I don't think you realize that a P2P game doesn't have to have millions of players to be successful. EvE does great with 500k players. Many people like me are thrilled that there are more subscription games coming out because it means I don't have to be nickel and dimed to death. GW2 is a B2P game, but guess what? They also have RNG/Gacha like chests that they sell in their cash shop that tick a lot of people off. I don't want to deal with those kinds of cash shops so the subscription model making a return is some of the best MMO news I've heard in awhile.
Smile
Great. You go play those games.
I play free games for fun. It is not like there will be a lack of F2P games just because a few sub-only games are being made. Plus, sooner or later, they will become f2p anyway.
So we both have games to play. The gaming market works.