If WoW was F2P and all newer (released recently) games were P2P then the numbers would show F2P games have decreased 9% revenue.
You can skew the numbers any way you want. Neverwinter, Rift, Marvel Heroes, GW2 are all F2P, newer games where players sick of Wow are now spending time. To correlate that P2P is dying because of less revenue in a quarter during a time where all the major contenders are F2P is just skewing statistics to make a point.
P2P is definitely a revenue model that IS desired by many gamers and that is why major companies are now pulling the model in the opposite direction from where many new competitors sit... market share. There are players that will ONLY play P2P games, that entire market is waiting for a new MMO to call home.
You can't go from F2P to P2P but you can go from P2P to F2P so why not start with some high aspirations? If you get one HALF of the WoW subs, you're making 75 million dollars a month. Not too shabby. If subscribers drop off over time then you re-evaluate your model but in the meantime, you've made a nice chunk of change.
I think Carbine, Square Enix and Zenimax/Bethesda have made good decisions in this regard.
Don't worry, John Smedley at SOE hates P2P so I'm sure Everquest Next will be a F2P or hybrid title.
I think Carbine, Square Enix and Zenimax/Bethesda have made good decisions in this regard.
Don't worry, John Smedley at SOE hates P2P so I'm sure Everquest Next will be a F2P or hybrid title.
He loves it, he started the subscription+cash shop model.
But the only way to go is the hybrid model, with restrictions on F2P cash shops (especially with fighting/economy items). We don't need what EQ/EQII and EvE has, and why they have less than 1 million players combined (and half extra accounts, not real players).
P2P for budgeting. F2P for cosmetics (WTB, a suit of shiny silver paladin armor with winged helm, and matching 1H sword and shield that's transmorgable!).
But that is not the point. The point is that sub-only MMOs are probably going to be dead soon.
wrong, more and more are going back to sub base models. Wildstar ESO are going sub primarily and EQN would be smart to join but it will fail and try to charge 10$ US for a potion or something and will fail hardcore.
Originally posted by lafaiel I don't know if you all noticed it yet, but the op is trolling you, normally they post once and let it brew, but he's actually pretty good.
if WoW, the absolute champion of P2P can't sustain its playerbase, then no other small-fry stands much chance.
Well, the pay model isn't the reason. It's the design model.
Have a toon for 8 years, and you paid for all that time plus expansions, do you think suddenly now it's "Hmmm, I'll just abandon my 8 year toon, and be a n00b in a F2P?".
That's not how it works.
Players are more inclined to play a title due to F2P, but the diehard freebie types don't do it to pay for anything. That makes a sorry community, as CRZ showed in WoW, just having warm bodies in a zone is no substitute for player interaction/communication. The freebie just wants his stuff, not get cozy to stay. He'll play for 30 days or such, and hop to the next new game (with the same attention span).
That is why the next three major AAA MMOs are all sub based: ESO, FF14, and WS..... Keep dreaming pal. Quality gaming is still going to require a sub.
I am not worried. They will go F2P sooner or later.
Plus, EQN is not going to be sub-only.
You keep dreaming cause FFXIV ARR dev said it over and over he will NEVER change FFXIV ARR to free to play he actually said if game does really really bad he will chose to shut the game down and not go free to play.
FREE TO PLAY IS A SCAM SAME AS CASINOS ARE A SCAM, if you like to be scammed be scammed but you can't say that pay to play is dead. you can say you wish that pay to play were dead but only in your dreams.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
Originally posted by nariusseldon http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/107218/video-game-retail-sales-decline-digital-up-in-july"Subscription based MMO revenues declined 9.0% on a monthly basis to $76.0 million. Subscriber base declined to 5.8 million from 6.3 million in June. This was much anticipated due to the loss of 600K subscribers for Activisions World of Warcrafts (WoW) in the recently concluded quarter."9% loss on a month basis ... it does not look good."Free-to-play subscriber base slightly declined to 45.8 million from 46 million in June. Average revenue per user (ARPU) was approximately $40 much higher than $27 reported in June."Guess the whales are paying more.But that is not the point. The point is that sub-only MMOs are probably going to be dead soon.
Nariusseldon, everything you say is extremely against the truly loyal MMORPG community. I've stumbled upon almost every post you put up this past week, whether it's a reply or a thread entirely and in each one, you describe that you like to leech off of F2P games, supplying nothing to the mmorpg community, and you make statements against P2P games all the time. Why the hell are you so against paying anything for a great experience, and rather you support these terrible companies, terrible games with incomplete content, fee's for anything over beginner level equipment and a community that is completely silent and never says a word due to how busy they are hitting max level in a day. "Oh .. who says i only play MMOs. Please don't form such silly ideas. Diablo 3 is more fun (to me of course), then all the MMOs out there. But i don't play only one game, do i? (BTW, D3 is close enough in play style to MMO for me). SKYRIM ... that is too much walking. Dishonored, Deus EX HE, Bioshock Infinite .... those are more of my kind of games. Even Testament of Sherlock Holmes is more fun than most MMOs for me. So please don't think i have to play MMOs. I only do so for variety. I am no where close to be an exclusive MMO player. And yes .. the one you mentioned are the only reasons. You don't think i play MMOs for socializing, or the virtual world, do you?" ~Those were your exact words in another forum post Narius. Yet You're so outspoken against everything that makes MMORPG's good. You are part of the decline of the genre, you trot into our genre, which is fine, but THEN you whine about P2P sanbox's and repeat how doomed P2P is. If you had just posted once or twice that your opinion on the subject is that you prefer F2P's fine, but you repeat and repeat how doomed P2P games are and how stupid P2P sandbox MMORPG's are.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here.... just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio. Thank you for your patience.
Games like BF3 are going the opposite way of the current MMOs. No more "faceless pointmen", you keep your "main" across the expansions. My 2007 toon, is my 2013 toon...and there's only 1 toon per account. Longevity is preserved, with the trinkets to prove it, too.
Just like the old days of MUDs even.
MMORPGs are going MMOFPS (DUST anyone?), when FPS games are going more MMORPG.
Nariusseldon, everything you say is extremely against the truly loyal MMORPG community. I've stumbled upon almost every post you put up this past week, whether it's a reply or a thread entirely and in each one, you describe that you like to leech off of F2P games, supplying nothing to the mmorpg community, and you make statements against P2P games all the time. Why the hell are you so against paying anything for a great experience, and rather you support these terrible companies, terrible games with incomplete content, fee's for anything over beginner level equipment and a community that is completely silent and never says a word due to how busy they are hitting max level in a day. "Oh .. who says i only play MMOs. Please don't form such silly ideas. Diablo 3 is more fun (to me of course), then all the MMOs out there. But i don't play only one game, do i? (BTW, D3 is close enough in play style to MMO for me). SKYRIM ... that is too much walking. Dishonored, Deus EX HE, Bioshock Infinite .... those are more of my kind of games. Even Testament of Sherlock Holmes is more fun than most MMOs for me. So please don't think i have to play MMOs. I only do so for variety. I am no where close to be an exclusive MMO player. And yes .. the one you mentioned are the only reasons. You don't think i play MMOs for socializing, or the virtual world, do you?" ~Those were your exact words in another forum post Narius. Yet You're so outspoken against everything that makes MMORPG's good. You are part of the decline of the genre, you trot into our genre, which is fine, but THEN you whine about P2P sanbox's and repeat how doomed P2P is. If you had just posted once or twice that your opinion on the subject is that you prefer F2P's fine, but you repeat and repeat how doomed P2P games are and how stupid P2P sandbox MMORPG's are.
Isn't the answer very simple? I am not loyal to any MMO or MMO community. Why should i be?
Plus, i am not against playing for great experiences. I paid for michelin 3-star restaurants, and i paid for SP games. But i won't pay for experiences with free alternatives. Why should I? So yeah, i will pay for other stuff, just not MMOs.
ANd what you think makes MMO good is just your preference. I have a different one. I don't care about virtual worlds nor community. I play for gameplay fun, and i explained very clearly why i play MMO in another thread.
And i don't apologize for my preference. I don't ask anyone to have the same preference (which is futile on the internet anyway) and just state my own.
wtf, so the original post is comparing all of the free to play games vs WoW which has been out for almost 10 years now? Come on guys, this is retarded. But I guess I will take it, all the dumb ass troll kids can stay on their F2P games and I will enjoy my time on the P2P games
Chances are if a game isn't good enough to pay a sub fee for, then it's probably not good enough in general. When it comes to MMOs that is.
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
What you think makes an MMO or any game great, may not be what I think makes them great. If you are free to voice yours, don't complain when others voice theirs and theirs disagree with yours.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
Well said.
It is silly to assume everyone plays MMOs for the same reasons (such as community and virtual world).
I love this term "Whale" It's great. That means you are either a whale or you are whale food. If there ins't enough food, whales move on to new feeding grounds.
Not if you play the game solo and don't interact with whales.
They can't really 'eat' you in a pve game, anyway.
The point remains. If there is no food, the whales move on.
The food is in the cash shop.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, I tend to agree. Like it or hate it, I see the freemium model becoming more and more prevalent as it at least appears to offer the most choice, while still letting devs increase their profit margin beyond pure sub.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
Well said.
It is silly to assume everyone plays MMOs for the same reasons (such as community and virtual world).
but community and virtual world are the principles of MMORPG's
Things wich are completely ignored when making todays games (im not even gonna call them mmo's anymore). Until developers get back to that track we end up with these F2P garbage titles wich are on rails entertainment going from questhub to questhub. And even when they remove the quests your still doing them in some form or another. And if removed completely you mostly end up with a shallow PvP game. in fact all these new MMo's are shallow like hell.
The more features they put into these mmo's all of them will be less well executed. and feel really shallow.
Less is more tbh when your talking about mmo's im still gonna be waiting had my hops on EQnext but that went out of the window.
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
Well said.
It is silly to assume everyone plays MMOs for the same reasons (such as community and virtual world).
but community and virtual world are the principles of MMORPG's
Things wich are completely ignored when making todays games (im not even gonna call them mmo's anymore). Until developers get back to that track we end up with these F2P garbage titles wich are on rails entertainment going from questhub to questhub. And even when they remove the quests your still doing them in some form or another. And if removed completely you mostly end up with a shallow PvP game. in fact all these new MMo's are shallow like hell.
The more features they put into these mmo's all of them will be less well executed. and feel really shallow.
Less is more tbh when your talking about mmo's im still gonna be waiting had my hops on EQnext but that went out of the window.
I agree about the virtual world but no the community. Rather I feel it is the capability to form a community that is a principle in an mmo. I am not required to be part of that, rather I have the choice to participate or not, something that an spg does not have. Choice.
Totally disagree about the quest hubs. I feel no pressure to go from quest to quest. I do what I choose, sometimes that is following a quest chain, sometimes it is off exploring, sometimes it is just grinding an area I like. Again I have the choice.
These games are no more shallow than old games IMO.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
Well said.
It is silly to assume everyone plays MMOs for the same reasons (such as community and virtual world).
but community and virtual world are the principles of MMORPG's
Things wich are completely ignored when making todays games (im not even gonna call them mmo's anymore). Until developers get back to that track we end up with these F2P garbage titles wich are on rails entertainment going from questhub to questhub. And even when they remove the quests your still doing them in some form or another. And if removed completely you mostly end up with a shallow PvP game. in fact all these new MMo's are shallow like hell.
The more features they put into these mmo's all of them will be less well executed. and feel really shallow.
Less is more tbh when your talking about mmo's im still gonna be waiting had my hops on EQnext but that went out of the window.
Not to me.
And certainly no longer true in the MMO industry. Otherwise, why would instanced solo-gameplay so prevalent? And F2P game hopping so popular?
There might be old principles of the early MMOs. But they don't apply to me, and i pick MMOs as i like, not following some hypothetical principles. In fact, i stated many times that i often play MMOs as solo games. There is certainly no authority that can force me not to do it.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Average revenue per user (ARPU) was approximately $40 much higher than $27 reported in June."
Thank you for posting evidence which directly debunks your whales myth. Everyone is paying a lot more $ in F2P, lol. Fools and their money are soon parted. But consumers seem to be catching on.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by nariusseldon Average revenue per user (“ARPU”) was approximately $40 much higher than $27 reported in June."
Thank you for posting evidence which directly debunks your whales myth. Everyone is paying a lot more $ in F2P, lol. Fools and their money are soon parted. But consumers seem to be catching on.
Um no it doesn't.
The ARPU is the average, not the mode, not what most people pay. If one person out of 100 pays $1000 and 99 pay 0 the average rate per user is $10.
The mode, the data point (s) at which most people pay is not mentioned at all.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
Well said.
It is silly to assume everyone plays MMOs for the same reasons (such as community and virtual world).
but community and virtual world are the principles of MMORPG's
Things wich are completely ignored when making todays games (im not even gonna call them mmo's anymore). Until developers get back to that track we end up with these F2P garbage titles wich are on rails entertainment going from questhub to questhub. And even when they remove the quests your still doing them in some form or another. And if removed completely you mostly end up with a shallow PvP game. in fact all these new MMo's are shallow like hell.
The more features they put into these mmo's all of them will be less well executed. and feel really shallow.
Less is more tbh when your talking about mmo's im still gonna be waiting had my hops on EQnext but that went out of the window.
Not to me.
And certainly no longer true in the MMO industry. Otherwise, why would instanced solo-gameplay so prevalent? And F2P game hopping so popular?
There might be old principles of the early MMOs. But they don't apply to me, and i pick MMOs as i like, not following some hypothetical principles. In fact, i stated many times that i often play MMOs as solo games. There is certainly no authority that can force me not to do it.
MMo-hopping popular? excuse me what?
you think people like to Hop from mmo to mmo? The only reason they hop from mmo to mmo is because they are shit. People play them are max level well within a month, then all the new and shinyness falls off and what your left with is a crappy game like the others. and then they hop to the next in search of that MMo wich they can stick with.
you think people like to Hop from mmo to mmo? The only reason they hop from mmo to mmo is because they are shit. People play them are max level well within a month, then all the new and shinyness falls off and what your left with is a crappy game like the others. and then they hop to the next in search of that MMo wich they can stick with.
popular my ass.
Says you.
i say they hop from MMO to MMO because it is more fun to play many new games than sticking to an old one. Personally i don't want to stick with a single game forever.
And how is that not popular when the average retention time of MMOs is in months?
you think people like to Hop from mmo to mmo? The only reason they hop from mmo to mmo is because they are shit. People play them are max level well within a month, then all the new and shinyness falls off and what your left with is a crappy game like the others. and then they hop to the next in search of that MMo wich they can stick with.
popular my ass.
Says you.
i say they hop from MMO to MMO because it is more fun to play many new games than sticking to an old one. Personally i don't want to stick with a single game forever.
And how is that not popular when the average retention time of MMOs is in months?
that's the dumbest thing ive heard in this thread yet. Whats the most popular MMO....? When was it released? MMO hopping a trend since when may 2013?
Originally posted by nariusseldon Average revenue per user (“ARPU”) was approximately $40 much higher than $27 reported in June."
Thank you for posting evidence which directly debunks your whales myth. Everyone is paying a lot more $ in F2P, lol. Fools and their money are soon parted. But consumers seem to be catching on.
Um no it doesn't.
The ARPU is the average, not the mode, not what most people pay. If one person out of 100 pays $1000 and 99 pay 0 the average rate per user is $10.
The mode, the data point (s) at which most people pay is not mentioned at all.
hmm so tell me why mode would be relevant? since mode will only be the most normal paying made it would be zero for the simple fact F2P games can't be used saying we have X accounts open on our games because for experience most people ahve more tehn one account to or dual box or a bank with they never spend a dime, in the same way if you ignore the non paying members that would amke teh whole thing useless.
so again why mode would be important? also it come to ask how they get the 40 average number? using playing members? paying only members? number of accounts? that is all tricks to make stocks look better then they should or companys showing they are lucrative but are bankrupt, same the other way.
only certain thing is when a game go F2P is becasue he pretty sure knows he can't charge for sub, tehn hit for F2P as a like the last run/ gas/ trying to save.
and considerating 3 new MMO to come will be Subs we can question this already
Comments
If WoW was F2P and all newer (released recently) games were P2P then the numbers would show F2P games have decreased 9% revenue.
You can skew the numbers any way you want. Neverwinter, Rift, Marvel Heroes, GW2 are all F2P, newer games where players sick of Wow are now spending time. To correlate that P2P is dying because of less revenue in a quarter during a time where all the major contenders are F2P is just skewing statistics to make a point.
P2P is definitely a revenue model that IS desired by many gamers and that is why major companies are now pulling the model in the opposite direction from where many new competitors sit... market share. There are players that will ONLY play P2P games, that entire market is waiting for a new MMO to call home.
You can't go from F2P to P2P but you can go from P2P to F2P so why not start with some high aspirations? If you get one HALF of the WoW subs, you're making 75 million dollars a month. Not too shabby. If subscribers drop off over time then you re-evaluate your model but in the meantime, you've made a nice chunk of change.
I think Carbine, Square Enix and Zenimax/Bethesda have made good decisions in this regard.
Don't worry, John Smedley at SOE hates P2P so I'm sure Everquest Next will be a F2P or hybrid title.
No bitchers.
He loves it, he started the subscription+cash shop model.
But the only way to go is the hybrid model, with restrictions on F2P cash shops (especially with fighting/economy items). We don't need what EQ/EQII and EvE has, and why they have less than 1 million players combined (and half extra accounts, not real players).
P2P for budgeting. F2P for cosmetics (WTB, a suit of shiny silver paladin armor with winged helm, and matching 1H sword and shield that's transmorgable!).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
wrong, more and more are going back to sub base models. Wildstar ESO are going sub primarily and EQN would be smart to join but it will fail and try to charge 10$ US for a potion or something and will fail hardcore.
Why we're posting beyond him.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Well, the pay model isn't the reason. It's the design model.
Have a toon for 8 years, and you paid for all that time plus expansions, do you think suddenly now it's "Hmmm, I'll just abandon my 8 year toon, and be a n00b in a F2P?".
That's not how it works.
Players are more inclined to play a title due to F2P, but the diehard freebie types don't do it to pay for anything. That makes a sorry community, as CRZ showed in WoW, just having warm bodies in a zone is no substitute for player interaction/communication. The freebie just wants his stuff, not get cozy to stay. He'll play for 30 days or such, and hop to the next new game (with the same attention span).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
You keep dreaming cause FFXIV ARR dev said it over and over he will NEVER change FFXIV ARR to free to play he actually said if game does really really bad he will chose to shut the game down and not go free to play.
FREE TO PLAY IS A SCAM SAME AS CASINOS ARE A SCAM, if you like to be scammed be scammed but you can't say that pay to play is dead. you can say you wish that pay to play were dead but only in your dreams.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
Nariusseldon, everything you say is extremely against the truly loyal MMORPG community. I've stumbled upon almost every post you put up this past week, whether it's a reply or a thread entirely and in each one, you describe that you like to leech off of F2P games, supplying nothing to the mmorpg community, and you make statements against P2P games all the time. Why the hell are you so against paying anything for a great experience, and rather you support these terrible companies, terrible games with incomplete content, fee's for anything over beginner level equipment and a community that is completely silent and never says a word due to how busy they are hitting max level in a day.
"Oh .. who says i only play MMOs. Please don't form such silly ideas. Diablo 3 is more fun (to me of course), then all the MMOs out there. But i don't play only one game, do i? (BTW, D3 is close enough in play style to MMO for me).
SKYRIM ... that is too much walking. Dishonored, Deus EX HE, Bioshock Infinite .... those are more of my kind of games. Even Testament of Sherlock Holmes is more fun than most MMOs for me.
So please don't think i have to play MMOs. I only do so for variety. I am no where close to be an exclusive MMO player.
And yes .. the one you mentioned are the only reasons. You don't think i play MMOs for socializing, or the virtual world, do you?"
~Those were your exact words in another forum post Narius. Yet You're so outspoken against everything that makes MMORPG's good. You are part of the decline of the genre, you trot into our genre, which is fine, but THEN you whine about P2P sanbox's and repeat how doomed P2P is. If you had just posted once or twice that your opinion on the subject is that you prefer F2P's fine, but you repeat and repeat how doomed P2P games are and how stupid P2P sandbox MMORPG's are.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
Thank you for your patience.
Right.
Games like BF3 are going the opposite way of the current MMOs. No more "faceless pointmen", you keep your "main" across the expansions. My 2007 toon, is my 2013 toon...and there's only 1 toon per account. Longevity is preserved, with the trinkets to prove it, too.
Just like the old days of MUDs even.
MMORPGs are going MMOFPS (DUST anyone?), when FPS games are going more MMORPG.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Isn't the answer very simple? I am not loyal to any MMO or MMO community. Why should i be?
Plus, i am not against playing for great experiences. I paid for michelin 3-star restaurants, and i paid for SP games. But i won't pay for experiences with free alternatives. Why should I? So yeah, i will pay for other stuff, just not MMOs.
ANd what you think makes MMO good is just your preference. I have a different one. I don't care about virtual worlds nor community. I play for gameplay fun, and i explained very clearly why i play MMO in another thread.
And i don't apologize for my preference. I don't ask anyone to have the same preference (which is futile on the internet anyway) and just state my own.
wtf, so the original post is comparing all of the free to play games vs WoW which has been out for almost 10 years now? Come on guys, this is retarded. But I guess I will take it, all the dumb ass troll kids can stay on their F2P games and I will enjoy my time on the P2P games
Chances are if a game isn't good enough to pay a sub fee for, then it's probably not good enough in general. When it comes to MMOs that is.
Killing dragons is my shit
I would say it's because these forums, and this thread in particular are talking about issues he has an interest in, and games he is currently playing.
Thats why I'm here.
I really couldn't care less about the community or payment model either. My only concern with the game is whether I enjoy it or not. I'm perfectly capable of participating in community when I choose and ignoring it when I choose. The payment model is irrelevant to me.
What you think makes an MMO or any game great, may not be what I think makes them great. If you are free to voice yours, don't complain when others voice theirs and theirs disagree with yours.
Well said.
It is silly to assume everyone plays MMOs for the same reasons (such as community and virtual world).
The food is in the cash shop.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
but community and virtual world are the principles of MMORPG's
Things wich are completely ignored when making todays games (im not even gonna call them mmo's anymore). Until developers get back to that track we end up with these F2P garbage titles wich are on rails entertainment going from questhub to questhub. And even when they remove the quests your still doing them in some form or another. And if removed completely you mostly end up with a shallow PvP game. in fact all these new MMo's are shallow like hell.
The more features they put into these mmo's all of them will be less well executed. and feel really shallow.
Less is more tbh when your talking about mmo's im still gonna be waiting had my hops on EQnext but that went out of the window.
I agree about the virtual world but no the community. Rather I feel it is the capability to form a community that is a principle in an mmo. I am not required to be part of that, rather I have the choice to participate or not, something that an spg does not have. Choice.
Totally disagree about the quest hubs. I feel no pressure to go from quest to quest. I do what I choose, sometimes that is following a quest chain, sometimes it is off exploring, sometimes it is just grinding an area I like. Again I have the choice.
These games are no more shallow than old games IMO.
Not to me.
And certainly no longer true in the MMO industry. Otherwise, why would instanced solo-gameplay so prevalent? And F2P game hopping so popular?
There might be old principles of the early MMOs. But they don't apply to me, and i pick MMOs as i like, not following some hypothetical principles. In fact, i stated many times that i often play MMOs as solo games. There is certainly no authority that can force me not to do it.
Thank you for posting evidence which directly debunks your whales myth. Everyone is paying a lot more $ in F2P, lol. Fools and their money are soon parted. But consumers seem to be catching on.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Um no it doesn't.
The ARPU is the average, not the mode, not what most people pay. If one person out of 100 pays $1000 and 99 pay 0 the average rate per user is $10.
The mode, the data point (s) at which most people pay is not mentioned at all.
MMo-hopping popular? excuse me what?
you think people like to Hop from mmo to mmo? The only reason they hop from mmo to mmo is because they are shit. People play them are max level well within a month, then all the new and shinyness falls off and what your left with is a crappy game like the others. and then they hop to the next in search of that MMo wich they can stick with.
popular my ass.
Says you.
i say they hop from MMO to MMO because it is more fun to play many new games than sticking to an old one. Personally i don't want to stick with a single game forever.
And how is that not popular when the average retention time of MMOs is in months?
that's the dumbest thing ive heard in this thread yet. Whats the most popular MMO....? When was it released? MMO hopping a trend since when may 2013?
MMO Fodder players and their opinions lol
hmm so tell me why mode would be relevant? since mode will only be the most normal paying made it would be zero for the simple fact F2P games can't be used saying we have X accounts open on our games because for experience most people ahve more tehn one account to or dual box or a bank with they never spend a dime, in the same way if you ignore the non paying members that would amke teh whole thing useless.
so again why mode would be important? also it come to ask how they get the 40 average number? using playing members? paying only members? number of accounts? that is all tricks to make stocks look better then they should or companys showing they are lucrative but are bankrupt, same the other way.
only certain thing is when a game go F2P is becasue he pretty sure knows he can't charge for sub, tehn hit for F2P as a like the last run/ gas/ trying to save.
and considerating 3 new MMO to come will be Subs we can question this already