There are many reasons to not take games for free. Provide revenue to the game maker, so as to pay their employees and generate new meaningful content are two that come to mind.
I get it though, you have found a F2P game that you can get everything you want out of entertainment wise...for free. I have no problem with you finding your entertainment that way. The problem I and many others have is that we do not get the same level of entertainment from the F2P market. It is also a market that has the capacity for shady business....overpriced fluff, P2W, pay to progress. That is not the future of exceptional games...just the mass produced asian grinds and titles that weren't up to snuff to remain P2P. If it IS the future...God help us all.....
yes, that is because our preferences of entertainment differs.
I play MMOs essentially like solo games. I don't need (or even want) fluff. P2W is no issue if i don't pvp. I want to finish the content and move on, and don't really care if there is a community (although i believe STO has an active one, just look at foundry).
So I essentially ignore the cash shop. So far, none of the f2p games i like has a pay wall to prevent me to finish the content.
And i don't find any p2p games that is much more fun (for me) than that. Again, if you like star trek, or marvel characters, f2p is far better than p2p, because there is no p2p MMO with those IPs.
Nothing in life is free except the grace and favor of the Lord.
Nope, the collection plate still goes around for that Heaven is P2P.
You're right, though, there are simply no "worthy" games in recent memory which have survived the P2P model. Simple fact is that I think that most people expect more. Event with WoW being a P2P model, people still get pissed about the lack of or slow content updates. Shouldn't they be?I think that GW2 has been more frequent with their updates and they're B2P.
I think that Rift has a really good model right now. I love the sub option and I think it's underutilized. I think a sub option is good because it forces the developer not to get lazy and continue supporting their game and community with new content updates. Otherwise people will level cap and leave.
Here. Just one article of many articles over the years which have detailed F2P's successes.
It's great to be skeptical and demand proof, but remember you have the internet and can find this stuff pretty easily yourself too.
Yes, because a game that no one played, DDO, was able to stay afloat using a F2P model, that clearly means that all new AAA MMOs should use that model too. I mean after it, it was on the internet, it must be true.
And LOTRO made more money after turning f2p. TOR came back from death.
No one says every AAA MMO should use it .. but certainly a lot of them should consider it. EQN is clearly going in that direction. Even WOW is considering it.
Are they really bucking the trend, though? SWTOR and TSW, big games made by big developers, wanted to be P2P. When their game failed to "deliver the goods" that is when they made the switch.
TOR and TSW found out they cannot stay sub-only. You can hypothesize all day about what went wrong, but the bottomline is .. they have to go f2p to survive. They are clearly not the only ones. Rift, Tera .. many have converted. By definition, that is also a trend.
I think the one hypothesizing is you. You are trying to imply they failed because they were P2P. The failed because no one wanted to play them after a month since their developers didn't give players many options at the end of a couple weeks to level to cap.
Those games failed in their design 1st. If you don't make a game that players will want to log into month after month, then you don't choose P2P. If you make a game that players want to log into month after month. then you choose P2P. THe business model is what it is. It's viable in every other aspect of our daily living from Smart Phones, to cable TV to Internet access. If you provide an ongoing service people want, you have a right to ask for a month to month fee.
But you have an agenda that doesn't line up with that. You want to have your enjoyment paid for by everyone else other than yourself so so yeah, any game that actually requires payment for you to play is going to fail (you). But thank goodness, many other reasonable people are still around who realize that one way or another, you have to pay something to play.
Originally posted by cranthug Why are the majority of AAA MMO's releasing with aspirations of being P2P? Regardless of people's predictions of how many months til a games "inevitable" conversion to a F2P cash shop, P2P is still and will always be the preferred business model for game makers. It benefits the devs and players alike, and if a game has the longevity and the fun factor built into it you should be required to compensate the game makers for providing you this service. If people want to be nickel and dimed for content that should already be available to them for a small fee each month, more power to them. If kiddies can't get their parents to cough up a credit card so they can game, I say get a damn job. The problem with P2P isn't the business model, it is the fact that there have been no games released in recent memory worth paying a sub for. Nothing in life is free except the grace and favor of the Lord. Support the developers that give you hours of entertainment. Long live P2P! Huzzah!
Cranthug, i think we just became best friends.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here.... just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio. Thank you for your patience.
F2P is huge because, well the games made today are worthless and not worth a sub. Sorry, you want it free, don't expect a great game simple as that.
And F2P make more than sub games due to the fact there are 4000 f2p garbage games out there for every one sub game. Obviously they would make more. Doesn't take a PHD to figure that out.
But when you guys want and like f2p games you are only ruining the greater advancement of mmorpg's in general. Because no F2P game yet has gone beyond the distance and made a great game, they are all mediocre at best.
F2P is huge because, well the games made today are worthless and not worth a sub. Sorry, you want it free, don't expect a great game simple as that.
And F2P make more than sub games due to the fact there are 4000 f2p garbage games out there for every one sub game. Obviously they would make more. Doesn't take a PHD to figure that out.
But when you guys want and like f2p games you are only ruining the greater advancement of mmorpg's in general. Because no F2P game yet has gone beyond the distance and made a great game, they are all mediocre at best.
This is highly subjective. In my opinion a lot of good MMOS have been released in past like RIft and TSW but regardless of whether they are good games or not people just don't want to support P2P models. One of the biggest reason is that players these days like to play multiple MMOS.
And when you have to pay 15 bucks for 3 to 4 games it all adds up and that is the biggest reason why P2P MMOS don't work in long run. it's not like old days when you hardly had any choice. Now days so many good MMOS are available as F2P or B2P which makes player ponder really hard on spending 15 bucks on multiple games.
And i don't know what 4000 F2P garbage games you are talking about. Could you please exaggerate some more to make your point?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Yes, because a game that no one played, DDO, was able to stay afloat using a F2P model, that clearly means that all new AAA MMOs should use that model too. I mean after it, it was on the internet, it must be true.
It doesn't necessarily mean "all new AAA MMOs" should use it.
It only means that it's the most profitable business model. And that article is only part of the tip of the iceberg of evidence supporting the model.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Why are the majority of AAA MMO's releasing with aspirations of being P2P? Regardless of people's predictions of how many months til a games "inevitable" conversion to a F2P cash shop, P2P is still and will always be the preferred business model for game makers. It benefits the devs and players alike, and if a game has the longevity and the fun factor built into it you should be required to compensate the game makers for providing you this service.
If people want to be nickel and dimed for content that should already be available to them for a small fee each month, more power to them. If kiddies can't get their parents to cough up a credit card so they can game, I say get a damn job. The problem with P2P isn't the business model, it is the fact that there have been no games released in recent memory worth paying a sub for.
Nothing in life is free except the grace and favor of the Lord. Support the developers that give you hours of entertainment. Long live P2P! Huzzah!
I disagree that one pay system is better then the other, but I absolutely agree with the idea that a well made game would deserve my attention whether its F2P/P2P. A disadvantage with P2P is the attrition of the monthly fee and the content provided. With F2P its the balancing act of what is monetized in game and if its Pay to Win then the game crashes and burns.
Remember children, just because something makes a ton of money doesn't automatically mean its good.
Nor automatically means its bad.
I concur.
Cant wait till F2P goes away - rather, I hope it does.
if not, I'll be out of the genre.
I am pretty sure you will be out of genre before because F2P isn't going anywhere.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I think it is really simple, it is just business. They know there is a decent amount of hype and based on that they will attempt to maximise profits with a box price and sub. Once subs drop below a certain level they will flip the f2p switch and juts like that they made as much profit as possible, first from rabid fans and p2p crowd, then from f2p and those fence sitters.
I failed to locate a AAA mmo on that list, though I did see a few that aspired to P2P but fell to their own short comings. FF XIV, Wildstar, and ESO are all releasing as P2P. I would consider those AAA games. I suppose it's a matter of one's opinion on what a quality AAA game is, my apologies for using my opinion as a blanket statement!
The question remains however...if the three games I mentioned are releasing as P2P, do you think they have made a grievous error in profitability? Because as I see it, if they maintain healthy subscription numbers...will it not be a more profitable and sound endeavor for them? I know I personally take comfort in knowing my monthly budget amount before the bills start rolling in...instead of worrying about selling enough lemonades at my stand to keep my electricity on next month.
What you are seeing with those games is not an aspiration to be P2P but simply a cash grab to get money from the pay to play crowd. All those titles you list will be will F2P in a year or less after release. As soon as the initial box sales and subs run their course the games go free to play. We have seen this a dozen times in last few years. Guarantee you the companies running these games already have the F2P business plans ready to go. No game studio is planning to be P2P for any serious length of time. So go ahead and spend that $50 on the box and buy that year or lifetime sub. But don't complain on these forums when they go F2P and give away everything you paid for for FREE 6 months down the road.
You were warned. P2P is pretty much dead because it is not really all the profitable in the long run. What is profitable is doing a massive cash grab at release by tricking naive pay 2 play gamers and then pulling the rug out from under them. These companies know exactly what they are doing here.
Remember children, just because something makes a ton of money doesn't automatically mean its good.
Nor automatically means its bad.
I concur.
Cant wait till F2P goes away - rather, I hope it does.
if not, I'll be out of the genre.
I am pretty sure you will be out of genre before because F2P isn't going anywhere.
You don't know that for sure, really.
10+ years ago F2P was considered a "fad" and that "it couldn't last"
Point is, things change. I personally don't think there are enough "whales" out there to support the large amount of F2P MMO's. The MMO genre is due to a crash, akin to the one video games went through in the 80's.
And if not? I'll move on. Console games are a pretty decent deal right now and most of them aren't perverted with F2P crap.
Comments
yes, that is because our preferences of entertainment differs.
I play MMOs essentially like solo games. I don't need (or even want) fluff. P2W is no issue if i don't pvp. I want to finish the content and move on, and don't really care if there is a community (although i believe STO has an active one, just look at foundry).
So I essentially ignore the cash shop. So far, none of the f2p games i like has a pay wall to prevent me to finish the content.
And i don't find any p2p games that is much more fun (for me) than that. Again, if you like star trek, or marvel characters, f2p is far better than p2p, because there is no p2p MMO with those IPs.
Nope, the collection plate still goes around for that
Heaven is P2P.
You're right, though, there are simply no "worthy" games in recent memory which have survived the P2P model. Simple fact is that I think that most people expect more. Event with WoW being a P2P model, people still get pissed about the lack of or slow content updates. Shouldn't they be?I think that GW2 has been more frequent with their updates and they're B2P.
I think that Rift has a really good model right now. I love the sub option and I think it's underutilized. I think a sub option is good because it forces the developer not to get lazy and continue supporting their game and community with new content updates. Otherwise people will level cap and leave.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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And LOTRO made more money after turning f2p. TOR came back from death.
No one says every AAA MMO should use it .. but certainly a lot of them should consider it. EQN is clearly going in that direction. Even WOW is considering it.
Once again the gamers of MMORPG has rekindled my fondness for pay to win.
p2p or p2w are the only games I play. Poetic justice since gamers need handouts. Win/win.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
I think the one hypothesizing is you. You are trying to imply they failed because they were P2P. The failed because no one wanted to play them after a month since their developers didn't give players many options at the end of a couple weeks to level to cap.
Those games failed in their design 1st. If you don't make a game that players will want to log into month after month, then you don't choose P2P. If you make a game that players want to log into month after month. then you choose P2P. THe business model is what it is. It's viable in every other aspect of our daily living from Smart Phones, to cable TV to Internet access. If you provide an ongoing service people want, you have a right to ask for a month to month fee.
But you have an agenda that doesn't line up with that. You want to have your enjoyment paid for by everyone else other than yourself so so yeah, any game that actually requires payment for you to play is going to fail (you). But thank goodness, many other reasonable people are still around who realize that one way or another, you have to pay something to play.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
Thanks, There are still a few of us out here who still enjoy a good traditional theme park.
It's funny how it was not all that long ago when alot of you were all "OMG F2P is killing gaming"
fast forward to these days & it's "OMG P2P is killing gaming!"
Seriously though, I have no 2nd thoughts about paying $15 a month to be entertained.
Star Citizen & the Repopulation need to hurry up & take my moneys!
Cranthug, i think we just became best friends.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
Thank you for your patience.
F2P is huge because, well the games made today are worthless and not worth a sub. Sorry, you want it free, don't expect a great game simple as that.
And F2P make more than sub games due to the fact there are 4000 f2p garbage games out there for every one sub game. Obviously they would make more. Doesn't take a PHD to figure that out.
But when you guys want and like f2p games you are only ruining the greater advancement of mmorpg's in general. Because no F2P game yet has gone beyond the distance and made a great game, they are all mediocre at best.
Remember children, just because something makes a ton of money doesn't automatically mean its good.
Nor automatically means its bad.
Plus, "good" and "bad" are subjective in entertainment.
Personally, Diablo 3 is good. STO is good. Marvel Heroes is good.
UO is bad. EQ is bad. Eve is bad.
Those are my preferences.. Yours may differ.
This is highly subjective. In my opinion a lot of good MMOS have been released in past like RIft and TSW but regardless of whether they are good games or not people just don't want to support P2P models. One of the biggest reason is that players these days like to play multiple MMOS.
And when you have to pay 15 bucks for 3 to 4 games it all adds up and that is the biggest reason why P2P MMOS don't work in long run. it's not like old days when you hardly had any choice. Now days so many good MMOS are available as F2P or B2P which makes player ponder really hard on spending 15 bucks on multiple games.
And i don't know what 4000 F2P garbage games you are talking about. Could you please exaggerate some more to make your point?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Notable examples:
That is subjective.
I have more fun in STO, and Marvel heroes than EQ, UO and Eve combined.
It was claimed that 50 million people played Farmville at one point...
Tastes differ. Variety is good.
Yes. Variety is good. I don't play one MMO, or one game anyway, so it is more fun to me.
I concur.
Cant wait till F2P goes away - rather, I hope it does.
if not, I'll be out of the genre.
It doesn't necessarily mean "all new AAA MMOs" should use it.
It only means that it's the most profitable business model. And that article is only part of the tip of the iceberg of evidence supporting the model.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I disagree that one pay system is better then the other, but I absolutely agree with the idea that a well made game would deserve my attention whether its F2P/P2P. A disadvantage with P2P is the attrition of the monthly fee and the content provided. With F2P its the balancing act of what is monetized in game and if its Pay to Win then the game crashes and burns.
I am pretty sure you will be out of genre before because F2P isn't going anywhere.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
What you are seeing with those games is not an aspiration to be P2P but simply a cash grab to get money from the pay to play crowd. All those titles you list will be will F2P in a year or less after release. As soon as the initial box sales and subs run their course the games go free to play. We have seen this a dozen times in last few years. Guarantee you the companies running these games already have the F2P business plans ready to go. No game studio is planning to be P2P for any serious length of time. So go ahead and spend that $50 on the box and buy that year or lifetime sub. But don't complain on these forums when they go F2P and give away everything you paid for for FREE 6 months down the road.
You were warned. P2P is pretty much dead because it is not really all the profitable in the long run. What is profitable is doing a massive cash grab at release by tricking naive pay 2 play gamers and then pulling the rug out from under them. These companies know exactly what they are doing here.
You don't know that for sure, really.
10+ years ago F2P was considered a "fad" and that "it couldn't last"
Point is, things change. I personally don't think there are enough "whales" out there to support the large amount of F2P MMO's. The MMO genre is due to a crash, akin to the one video games went through in the 80's.
And if not? I'll move on. Console games are a pretty decent deal right now and most of them aren't perverted with F2P crap.