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Weaponset clarification?
Enrif
Member UncommonPosts: 152
So far we know each class will have access to two weaponsets. But what does that mean?
1. Does it mean Warriors have only the choice between Hammer&shield and Two-handed Sword?
2. Does it mean your class has acces to two "fighting styles" based on equipped weapons and this style dictates your skills??(Styles: Twohanded, one handed, Dual wield, One handed and shield, onehanded and offhand,ranged)
3. Or does it only mean we can switch on the fly between two weaponsets we have choosed from different weapons with different skills attached to a weaponset?(like GW2).
If Nr.1 is true i think it will feel a little too restricted.
If Nr.2 is true it allows more flexibility but then there will be the awkward moments when you use your hammer with the "impale" skill...
Also it could give classes the acces to some interchangeable fighting styles and with that we get more skills on the classes. e.g. for Warrior (4 weaponsets=16 weaponskills): Twohanded,Onehanded,Dual wield. Onehanded&Shield)
If Nr.3 is true it allows much more flexibility and it means a class dont has only 12 skills(4 for weapon1, 4 for weapon 2 and 4 charakter skills) but much more(like GW2).Also SOE stated in a Q&A that hammer&shield is a weaponset and Sword&Shield is a different one,Different from GW2 where a shild always gives the same skills no matter what weapon is in the mainhand. This can give some Classes more skills then others.
just as a guesst Example of possibilites : Warrior vs. Wizard
Warrior(19weaponsets= 76skills):Sword&Shield, Axe&Shield, Hammer&Shield, Twohanded Sword, Twohanded Axe, Twohanded Hammer, Polearm, Sword&Sword, Sword&Axe, Sword&Hammer, Axe&Sword, Axe&Axe, Axe&Hammer, Hammer&Sword, Hammer&Axe, Hammer&Hammer, Single Sword, Single Axe, Single Hammer
Wizard(7 weaponsets =28 skills): Staff, Scepter&Offhand, Scepter&Dagger, Dagger&Offhand, Dagger&Dagger, Single Scepter, Single Dagger
what do you think?
Comments
I think its 1. It was hammer/shield and halberd for the warrior. At least that was what they said at the class panel at SOE live. At least there are 40 classes and a good portion of them will be fighter types. So in the end you can have many more weapon sets, you only wouldn't be called a warrior but something else.
I still find this system feels very unintuitive. A warrior can't use a sword? You need to be a swordmaster to do that I guess.
Me too. I still hope for atleast the second option as it will give some options to customize your charakter a little. Like you mentiond, sword for my warrior.
Darrin, one of the devs posted about this on the forum here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/2534185
Lots of good conversation going on here. Figured it would be easier to make an account and respond to everyone than send telegraphs via twitter.
Please don't take anything I saw here as flippant or condescending,etc. This is good conversation and I thank you all for participating.
Let me clear this up for everyone. The current plan is that each class has a pair of weapons that they can use. Each of these weapons gives the class 4 unique abilities themed for the class. These 4 abilities are earned over the progression of the class. So if a class uses 2 swords and a spear then they get 4 abilities for the sword and 4 for the spear. This list does not grow beyond 4.
Why did we choose this design?
As we stated in the class panel our many classes is each very focused. Very very focused on a particular gameplay style. We also want each to be very visually distinct and identifiable. Both of these goals become impossible to reach with too many abilities
As has been pointed out n this thread, in EverQuest Next you are able to become any one of 40 classes at launch. These will feature a wide variety of equipment choices, ability load outs and multi-class options. On top of that you can mix character abilities between classes for even more customization. Trust me there is something for everyone here.
Another thing that I cannot overstate - this is not your typical mmo. Our class and progression model cannot be accurately compared to anything on the market today. We have played the games you have played. We know exactly what you are talking about when you bring up issues. Our hope is that together we can make a game we all want to play.
Please keep up the feedback, you guys/gals rock.
Talisker
I personally think this is much LESS limiting than what is traditionally offered in mmo's. There'll be plenty of ways to use the weapon of your choice, you just need to not get hung up on the bass class' title.
I didn't answer the poll, because I don't know what you mean by "fighting styles". When you choose your weapon set, you are choosing 4 abilities that are fixed for that set. Your character also changes their pose and animations based on the combination of class and weapon set.
Each character can switch between 2 active weapon sets, but which weapon sets are available is determined by class. So the warrior may choose a 2H Sword and a Sword/Shield for his weapon sets. But he could have chosen a 2H Sword and Dual-Wield Maces. Meanwhile the Wizard could choose a Staff and Sword/Focus for his 2 sets. But a Wizard with a staff and a Druid with a staff will have completely different abilities.
This is what I've gleaned from the panels, anyway.
Like EQ1 also, right? Given it is limited, having a shield would enable bash, and it was swap-able at any time, in or out of combat. Rogues could backstab with daggers in their main hand, but they could also use 1hs swords. The mechanic is not bound to GW2 in anyway.
I do believe we will see option 1. There are so many classes, I think the point is to pick a base playstyle you want (class selection) then augment it to behave like you want (skill selection/weapon skill selection).
This sounds exactly right. Class choice determines weapons available, as well as the abilities attached to those weapons. Weapon choice determines your first 4 abilities (with the ability to swap to an alternate set of 4). The other 4 are chosen from among all of your known classes, but the type of abilities you have here is determined by your active class. (Some classes might be able to slot more movement abilities or more defensive abilities from among the other classes.)
If anyone hasn't seen the Class panel, it's definitely worth watching:
I really like what they're doing with the animations and silhouettes conveying a character's fighting style.
It's exactly as they explained it, unless they were lying...
Each of the 40+ classes has two sets of weapons. EI - Sword and shield, 2-handed hammer, Bow, Staff, etc. I would not be surprised if one class had sword and shield, another had hammer and shield, and yet another had axe and shield as one of their weapon sets.
Each class is supposed to be highly unique, so their weapon sets will fit the class specifically.
So for instance, a Paladin would likely have the weapons sets of sword and shield and two handed sword. It would also have heavy armor as the armor type. Though, I'm sure there will be a class that uses dual swords and two handed swords with medium armor. Sort of like a ninja class, or blademaster class.
I really think there will be just about any combination of weapon sets and armors that you can be just about anything that you'd ever want to be.
Seems #1 is the only option.
Personally, I think they should of picked a different term besides Class when defining the roles you can play.
The term class has a lot of meaning behind it and it seems EQN is moving toward having different Jobs or Professions or just Roles. Believe FFAXIV calls theirs Jobs.
With how multi-classing seems to work, you aren't playing or acting ad a particular class, you are just picking a role and the tools that come along with it.
You decide if you want to play offense, defense, support then how well armored, then particular weapons. Then add in whatever addition skills to support your desired role. They've just attached the very familiar term of Class to these roles and made it a bit weird.
A Warrior in EQN can't use all weapons because it isn't a "Warrior" which is usually a weapon master class. In EQN it is just another role, it happens to share the name and one aspect of the traditional class of the same name.
If you look at the classes more as roles and not the traditional classes, it makes more sense. You are free to play just one, but they are designing the game with the hope that you'll play all classes regularly and not get too attached to one. Less focus in being a good "Warrior" and more focus on being a good player at multiple roles.
It is restrictive if you can't let go of the very defined term of class and all that comes with it. Once you do, EQN's system will hopefully seem very open instead.
Ranger could be 1 x sword and 1 x bow. I could see them having a Crossbowman/Arbalest, Archer, Bowman, Rifleteer as classes. I wouldn't doubt if total number gets up to 100+ eventually. So many possible roles with different combos of weapon-armor-secondary skills. If they add in mounted combat or sea battles, opens more and more classes.
You need two swords to have one in each hand.
I agree that we will probably see one sword and one bow set for ranger.
It makes sense to separate out different kinds of weapons to different classes. Your weapon determines so much about your playstyle ... if you wanted a different kind of bow, you'll generally need other skills to match up with the bow ability. I think SoE will take advantage of this by adding another class. You mean 100+ classes over time, right? I could see this too.
Spot on.
Many one handed styles. Just because you have 2 hands, doesn't mean you have to have something in them, although it is a waste. But you're probably right.
Can't wait to get more info! So many questions.
Ya 100 classes. They could easily add 1 a moth or several during content updates. Could even have them play a role in Rally Calls where you unlock them if you participate and help The Cabalist guild or something relating to the story. Only limit is how fast they can put the animations and skills together.
DAoC and EQ2 have almost 50 distinct traditional classes. Break each one down into multiple roles and total classes grows quickly. Then add in crafting and non combat classes.
Can't wait for all the Pokemon references, but I gotta unlock them all!
i meant that you get the "dual wield" fightin style and the "twohanded" fighting style. And with this you could equip any items that fits into this style (e.g. Greatswords and 2h-Axes for twohanded style, and any combination of onehanded weapons for dual wield). With that the classes are a little more flexible on visual customization(axe vs. sword) but the attacking skills would be determined by the way they use the weapon(e.g. dualwield).
But it seems we will locked into 2 weapon per class. I hope they make good decisions on weapon, stance and class feeling. (Spellblade with medium armor, a onehanded weapon and without a offhand item would what i wish. I can only hope they will add such a class, as i cant make it by my own(e.g. less play what you want,))
That's messed up no matter the poll option. I know they are trying to make the game more accessible and playable on differing devices but the moment you tell me my warrior can't pull out a two handed axe to play like a Frank Frazetta death dealer character drawing on some lame goblinoid's ass without grinding the right vanity title ... Well, I have to start wondering about the merits of the mechanics. I mean way back before the change in focus the devs were claiming fewer classes and fewer races but look how that turned out. It rubs me wrong but we will see how it plays eventually.
I am not really sure why they are even bothering with classes. You could theoretically collect and combine skills for each weapon and slot them seperately. I suppose it has to do with keeping animations consistent.
At first glance the only 2 weapon sets and only 12 class-specific abilities seem very restrictive, but when you look at the classes as being very flexible, it kinda makes sense. Looking at total abilities:
40 classes with 12 abilities per class (4 per weapon set, 4 "character abilities") = 480 total
In a traiditional MMO with, say, 10 classes, you would need 48 abilities per class. Most classes do not have nearly this many!
So if you want to be a warrior who uses a mace and shield to be defensive but want the ability to pull out a 2H sword and go nuts, you have to pick a 2h sword wielding class (I'm sure you can choose from several) to switch to. Since you can change classes very easily and leveling up won't take forever, this is no problem!
The main thing is that classes are very fine-grained and specific. When looking at it this way, I think this system will end up being pretty good! Also having so many unique animations will be really cool!
The official word is two weapon types for each class
so one class gets a sword and shield and two handed sword and that is it for weapon choice.
The difference in what each class can do with said weapons has been explained in less detail
My theory is it will play out something like this
a fencer gets a sword and a spell blade gets a sword (I just made those two up), the fencer would be mostly up close and its class skills with the sword equiped would be mostly melee physical based attacks while the spell blade would include spells in its skill bar even though it it holding a sword (that off hand does something afterall),
The biggest choice will most likely be finding a weapon + armor type that you like, possibly one with a second weapon you also like...and then filling in the 4 other skill slots with something you like.
Thanks for that post; I was a little worried about the class system until I read this. This is the best and most satisfying description of the system that I have read so far and it makes me feel excited to play the game. Thinking about classes in this framework, rather than the classic way of thinking (IE, class as the one and only dictator of your available abilities and play style). This system sounds, from what little I actually know now, to be much more open to customization.
I think it will come down to weapon customization and special drops.
So basically as a class you may be limited to either sword and shield, or Halberd.
But if you collect the Whirlwind Doomspire Halberd (made up the name) which basically creats mini tornado's and also has a strong wind that pushes mobs backwards 20 feel and makes them fall down. And you make the Halberd of Healing (made that up) that with every strike causes aoe heals to your party along with damaging mobs so the more you strike the more it heals.
Now you just totally changed how warriors normally operate just by swapping between two different kinds of the same weapon.
Cool eh?