I wish the devs could lay out the weapons/skills system and it's possibilities as well as these posts have done. It's cleared up a lot of things for me and I'm actually coming around to thinking this could be pretty awesome (especially with interchangeable class skills and item boosts). I was very skeptical about the combat and class system, but can see the possibilities now. I still don't like what I saw in the reveal with the warrior spinning all over the place, but hopefully they won't make the animations too exaggerated.
Originally posted by ropenice I wish the devs could lay out the weapons/skills system and it's possibilities as well as these posts have done. It's cleared up a lot of things for me and I'm actually coming around to thinking this could be pretty awesome (especially with interchangeable class skills and item boosts). I was very skeptical about the combat and class system, but can see the possibilities now. I still don't like what I saw in the reveal with the warrior spinning all over the place, but hopefully they won't make the animations too exaggerated.
Yeah I agree. I think they should have come up with a clearer "press release" type of announcement that outlined how it would work. Having the developers just try to broadly announce the system without revealing "too much" kind of confused lots of people.
As for the animations being too crazy, they mentioned that they cranked up the graphics effects for the demo (like the blinding particle effects all over the place). I'm sure they also aren't limiting the abilities yet (cooldowns, energy, etc.). I think that a lot of the class/abilities are still in pretty early development.
Originally posted by nisrak They have also said that all weapons and armor will have modifiers to abilities, not stats. So have 1 mace/shield combo for a warrior may play out very differently from a different mace/shield combo. With crafting and weapon customization, there are gonna be tons and tons of options and choices.
in one of there videos they show some of the concept pieces all drawn out and it looking like each weapon and tons of components
Yeah I agree. I think they should have come up with a clearer "press release" type of announcement that outlined how it would work. Having the developers just try to broadly announce the system without revealing "too much" kind of confused lots of people.
Are you CRAZY? Just think of all the fun we are having with "remember which youtube video said what" and "Find the random dev interview on obscure website" to answer simple questions.
Oh wait you are right it isn't fun, they REALLY need a FaQ that consolidates a lot of the information they have vomited out randomly on the world.
Yeah I agree. I think they should have come up with a clearer "press release" type of announcement that outlined how it would work. Having the developers just try to broadly announce the system without revealing "too much" kind of confused lots of people.
Are you CRAZY? Just think of all the fun we are having with "remember which youtube video said what" and "Find the random dev interview on obscure website" to answer simple questions.
Oh wait you are right it isn't fun, they REALLY need a FaQ that consolidates a lot of the information they have vomited out randomly on the world.
Good point.
Anyway, as I've thought on it (and someone pulled up the quote that confirms this) there must only be 2 weapon sets for each class, if only for animation reasons. Your class + weapon choice produces a unique animation and standing pose that other players can recognize from a distance. So if every fighting class could equip any weapon you'd need a multitude of unique animations for every race/class/weapon combination.
So "Warrior" will always use the same 2 weapon sets. If you want, say, a 2H Axe instead, you'll be picking a different class.
I guess this all makes sense, and I have no complaints since the animation system that we got a peek at in the Class Panel looks amazing!! But yeah, I would agree with some others that the term "class" can be a bit misleading here. Let's not forget, though, that your class also determines the types of abilities you get in the 4 other skill slots (Offense/Defense/Movement/Utility). So it is a bit more than just your weapon skills.
The fact that the Warrior can ONLY wield either hammer/shield OR halberd actually gives us a clue as to how itemization will probably be handled.
You can't very well have a mob drop a 2 handed sword for a warrior because he can't use it. So loot awards will either be player specific (warriors get a hammer, paladins get a sword), or the vast majority of drops are components that must be crafted into the item of choice.
I'm guessing most items will be crafted precisely because there is no practical way to make sure people get drops they can actually use.
The fact that the Warrior can ONLY wield either hammer/shield OR halberd actually gives us a clue as to how itemization will probably be handled.
You can't very well have a mob drop a 2 handed sword for a warrior because he can't use it. So loot awards will either be player specific (warriors get a hammer, paladins get a sword), or the vast majority of drops are components that must be crafted into the item of choice.
I'm guessing most items will be crafted precisely because there is no practical way to make sure people get drops they can actually use.
I like how this thread evolved even i i thought of something else. But yes they said crafting will be the social glue. And the way you explains would absolute make sense with the way the weaponsets work. In others games like WoW you got this and that weapons and they are always weapons for that class(2h axe for melee dps, Staff for casters,etc) but so it realy depends on the crafting the weapon that suit the specialization of the class
I think you're dead-on about drops being mainly crafting components. That is the most viable way that they would be able to handle so many unique classes and weapon types without people throwing away 99% of drops they get. They have also talked about component-based crafting and how you will be able to see what types of pieces a weapon is made out of. Here is an example of how I think it may be:
You kill a fire demon and it drops a Red Burning Gem that can be used in crafting weapons. A Tempest uses it to make a sword that causes targets to burn for 25% more dmg after each hit. In the hilt of the sword you can see a burning red orb that represents the gem.
A wizard gets the same gem and puts it in a staff, giving a 25% cooldown reduction on fire spells. In the head of the staff you can see the same burning red orb of the gem.
So an experienced player will be able to look at a weapon someone is using and tell what components its made out of and what benefits it gives. I think this will be really cool and let you show off gear without being dependent on rare drops.
Thinking about it more, I realized that limiting classes to 2 weaponsets actually adds some uniqueness and novelty. There will be moments like "Whoa! That guy is using a flail and heavy armor, I've never seen that before! He must be either a templar or a crusader!"
I think you're dead-on about drops being mainly crafting components. That is the most viable way that they would be able to handle so many unique classes and weapon types without people throwing away 99% of drops they get. They have also talked about component-based crafting and how you will be able to see what types of pieces a weapon is made out of. Here is an example of how I think it may be:
You kill a fire demon and it drops a Red Burning Gem that can be used in crafting weapons. A Tempest uses it to make a sword that causes targets to burn for 25% more dmg after each hit. In the hilt of the sword you can see a burning red orb that represents the gem.
A wizard gets the same gem and puts it in a staff, giving a 25% cooldown reduction on fire spells. In the head of the staff you can see the same burning red orb of the gem.
So an experienced player will be able to look at a weapon someone is using and tell what components its made out of and what benefits it gives. I think this will be really cool and let you show off gear without being dependent on rare drops.
Well, they've already talked about being able to break down things into their components for crafting (and building), so it's possible that the same demon drops a sword, which you can then extract that gem from, turn it into a staff, similar to your example. They also have made it known that they'll use the player studio which allows (in their current games) you to assign a totally different model to something you have, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to tell what a player's weapon does by just seeing the model.
It would be cool if NPC drops matched the monsters that drop them. I'm not sure if that's a convention they'll revisit though. In original EQ they did it to some degree, but slowly moved away from that over the years.
I think you're dead-on about drops being mainly crafting components. That is the most viable way that they would be able to handle so many unique classes and weapon types without people throwing away 99% of drops they get. They have also talked about component-based crafting and how you will be able to see what types of pieces a weapon is made out of. Here is an example of how I think it may be:
You kill a fire demon and it drops a Red Burning Gem that can be used in crafting weapons. A Tempest uses it to make a sword that causes targets to burn for 25% more dmg after each hit. In the hilt of the sword you can see a burning red orb that represents the gem.
A wizard gets the same gem and puts it in a staff, giving a 25% cooldown reduction on fire spells. In the head of the staff you can see the same burning red orb of the gem.
So an experienced player will be able to look at a weapon someone is using and tell what components its made out of and what benefits it gives. I think this will be really cool and let you show off gear without being dependent on rare drops.
Well, they've already talked about being able to break down things into their components for crafting (and building), so it's possible that the same demon drops a sword, which you can then extract that gem from, turn it into a staff, similar to your example. They also have made it known that they'll use the player studio which allows (in their current games) you to assign a totally different model to something you have, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to tell what a player's weapon does by just seeing the model.
It would be cool if NPC drops matched the monsters that drop them. I'm not sure if that's a convention they'll revisit though. In original EQ they did it to some degree, but slowly moved away from that over the years.
I really hope it is a mix of all these ideas. Lots of crafting material drops and mobs dropping what they are actually wearing/wielding which can be broken down into crafting materials.
As you pointed out, gear skins will be transferable so there will probably be some question to what items really are, but I hope they do work in magical components to alter an item's name/special effects.
In the demo video, both characters had Boots of the Zephyr. One was wearing plate and the other cloth. I'm hoping if you complete The Zephyr Quest or kill The Zephyr King, you can get a magical crafting material that when applied to gear (boots in this example) it would add the special ability (Gliding) and change the name to indicate what it does (Zephyr)
So two characters could look completely different, but by gear name and abilities, it would be easy to identify how the player earned it and what it does. Or with the above example, one material could have multiple effects, but maybe it's visual appearance stays through skin transferring. So you could have a massive heavy 2-handed sword skin with a burning orb or a thinner 2-handed sword with the same orb shown.
Hope we don't have something like Journeyman's Boots from EQ where everyone got the exact same item and had to switch them out for their regular gear just to get the effect. Also really interested in how they will manage inventory for 40+ classes and multiple templates.
I wish they wouldn't have called them classes. They would have been better described as weapon specialties, or Styles. If the whole thing is modular they should have gone all the way, support that concept, and name it more like a build system.
Originally posted by ignore_me I wish they wouldn't have called them classes. They would have been better described as weapon specialties, or Styles. If the whole thing is modular they should have gone all the way, support that concept, and name it more like a build system.
It's not just the two weapon sets that defines the class, though. It's also the 4 other ability slots. So, when you get a new class you're opening up a minimum of 12 abilities (if it's been made clear that there are more than 4 abilities/weapon class or 4 additional abilities, which is likely, I've missed it). So basically, you'll look like a warrior because of your stance and wielding a 2-Handed sword, but you can have 4 other classes "slotted" simultaneously. Other PC's are going to have a good idea what your base attacks are, but no idea what your other four abilities are until they're seen in action (though if one is a self heal I imagine most will slot that).
Yes, you could call them something else, but it's not only the weapons that are opened with a new class.
Comments
Yeah I agree. I think they should have come up with a clearer "press release" type of announcement that outlined how it would work. Having the developers just try to broadly announce the system without revealing "too much" kind of confused lots of people.
As for the animations being too crazy, they mentioned that they cranked up the graphics effects for the demo (like the blinding particle effects all over the place). I'm sure they also aren't limiting the abilities yet (cooldowns, energy, etc.). I think that a lot of the class/abilities are still in pretty early development.
in one of there videos they show some of the concept pieces all drawn out and it looking like each weapon and tons of components
Are you CRAZY? Just think of all the fun we are having with "remember which youtube video said what" and "Find the random dev interview on obscure website" to answer simple questions.
Oh wait you are right it isn't fun, they REALLY need a FaQ that consolidates a lot of the information they have vomited out randomly on the world.
Good point.
Anyway, as I've thought on it (and someone pulled up the quote that confirms this) there must only be 2 weapon sets for each class, if only for animation reasons. Your class + weapon choice produces a unique animation and standing pose that other players can recognize from a distance. So if every fighting class could equip any weapon you'd need a multitude of unique animations for every race/class/weapon combination.
So "Warrior" will always use the same 2 weapon sets. If you want, say, a 2H Axe instead, you'll be picking a different class.
I guess this all makes sense, and I have no complaints since the animation system that we got a peek at in the Class Panel looks amazing!! But yeah, I would agree with some others that the term "class" can be a bit misleading here. Let's not forget, though, that your class also determines the types of abilities you get in the 4 other skill slots (Offense/Defense/Movement/Utility). So it is a bit more than just your weapon skills.
The fact that the Warrior can ONLY wield either hammer/shield OR halberd actually gives us a clue as to how itemization will probably be handled.
You can't very well have a mob drop a 2 handed sword for a warrior because he can't use it. So loot awards will either be player specific (warriors get a hammer, paladins get a sword), or the vast majority of drops are components that must be crafted into the item of choice.
I'm guessing most items will be crafted precisely because there is no practical way to make sure people get drops they can actually use.
I like how this thread evolved even i i thought of something else. But yes they said crafting will be the social glue. And the way you explains would absolute make sense with the way the weaponsets work. In others games like WoW you got this and that weapons and they are always weapons for that class(2h axe for melee dps, Staff for casters,etc) but so it realy depends on the crafting the weapon that suit the specialization of the class
I think you're dead-on about drops being mainly crafting components. That is the most viable way that they would be able to handle so many unique classes and weapon types without people throwing away 99% of drops they get. They have also talked about component-based crafting and how you will be able to see what types of pieces a weapon is made out of. Here is an example of how I think it may be:
You kill a fire demon and it drops a Red Burning Gem that can be used in crafting weapons. A Tempest uses it to make a sword that causes targets to burn for 25% more dmg after each hit. In the hilt of the sword you can see a burning red orb that represents the gem.
A wizard gets the same gem and puts it in a staff, giving a 25% cooldown reduction on fire spells. In the head of the staff you can see the same burning red orb of the gem.
So an experienced player will be able to look at a weapon someone is using and tell what components its made out of and what benefits it gives. I think this will be really cool and let you show off gear without being dependent on rare drops.
Thinking about it more, I realized that limiting classes to 2 weaponsets actually adds some uniqueness and novelty. There will be moments like "Whoa! That guy is using a flail and heavy armor, I've never seen that before! He must be either a templar or a crusader!"
Well, they've already talked about being able to break down things into their components for crafting (and building), so it's possible that the same demon drops a sword, which you can then extract that gem from, turn it into a staff, similar to your example. They also have made it known that they'll use the player studio which allows (in their current games) you to assign a totally different model to something you have, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to tell what a player's weapon does by just seeing the model.
It would be cool if NPC drops matched the monsters that drop them. I'm not sure if that's a convention they'll revisit though. In original EQ they did it to some degree, but slowly moved away from that over the years.
I really hope it is a mix of all these ideas. Lots of crafting material drops and mobs dropping what they are actually wearing/wielding which can be broken down into crafting materials.
As you pointed out, gear skins will be transferable so there will probably be some question to what items really are, but I hope they do work in magical components to alter an item's name/special effects.
In the demo video, both characters had Boots of the Zephyr. One was wearing plate and the other cloth. I'm hoping if you complete The Zephyr Quest or kill The Zephyr King, you can get a magical crafting material that when applied to gear (boots in this example) it would add the special ability (Gliding) and change the name to indicate what it does (Zephyr)
So two characters could look completely different, but by gear name and abilities, it would be easy to identify how the player earned it and what it does. Or with the above example, one material could have multiple effects, but maybe it's visual appearance stays through skin transferring. So you could have a massive heavy 2-handed sword skin with a burning orb or a thinner 2-handed sword with the same orb shown.
Hope we don't have something like Journeyman's Boots from EQ where everyone got the exact same item and had to switch them out for their regular gear just to get the effect. Also really interested in how they will manage inventory for 40+ classes and multiple templates.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
It's not just the two weapon sets that defines the class, though. It's also the 4 other ability slots. So, when you get a new class you're opening up a minimum of 12 abilities (if it's been made clear that there are more than 4 abilities/weapon class or 4 additional abilities, which is likely, I've missed it). So basically, you'll look like a warrior because of your stance and wielding a 2-Handed sword, but you can have 4 other classes "slotted" simultaneously. Other PC's are going to have a good idea what your base attacks are, but no idea what your other four abilities are until they're seen in action (though if one is a self heal I imagine most will slot that).
Yes, you could call them something else, but it's not only the weapons that are opened with a new class.