For me this fast levelling speed was a huge relief. Sadly I can only be online for 1-2 hours max, mostly I just play on Fridays and Saturdays (8 hour gaming marathons, lol). My way to greatness is a bit slow, and I'm glad you don't have to "live" in the game to reach max lvl. But yeah, for hardcore players it must be a disappointment.
We're here a month later (a month I opted not to resubscribe for, as I had completed all the content already).
Where's everyone standing now? Still feeling like this is THE game you'll be playing for the next few years? Burned out? Somewhere in the middle? I'm curious.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Staying power is a powerfull word. We each do stuff on our own pace, we all have our own objectives we want to reach in mmo's. I play not only for the contend but also to socialise and hang out with my buddy's. The thing is that themeparks need to keep feeding endgame contend, this is imposible as there are guilds and people who play mmo's 18 hours a day and clear new contend within 1 or 2 weeks while the normal and casual crowd take a month or many months to play trough it.
Themepark design is very hard to keep up with hardcore players as it takes many dev's and many hours creating new contend that need to last weeks or months. Its imposible to keep up with hardcore players unless you make it a horrible grind and then you get players that start whining its to grindy.
So there has to be a middle road where its fun and not a 8 month grind for the more casual players who pay the bills for most mmo's.
Also in my personal vieuw the themepark mmo's need to make place for good sandbox games. When you look at inovation then mmo's are just miles behind, once 2014 comes and we see games like Destiny / The Devision / Watch Dogs / GTA5 all sandbox games ! you see how endless the posibilty's realy are. Or Eve Online for example a game from 2003 that keeps increasing their members base year after year.
Its time that mmo's studio's look beyond leveling and grinds and introduce new mechanics and look at mmo's from a diffrent angle. The whole genre is getting old and tiresome.
Nothing new just plain game mechanics that have been in place for many many many years. Most bitter mmo vets long for a time when thigs were fresh and new not the same old copy paste mmo number 9879130 that try's to take the best and sell it as a totaly new invention
While i think FFARR is great fun and it never tried to sell me a fake promise of a new wonderland it still is a themepark based on the old foundation of mmo's.
Lets hope that like the next gen games the mmo genre moves also to a new way of playing and socialise.
We're here a month later (a month I opted not to resubscribe for, as I had completed all the content already).
Where's everyone standing now? Still feeling like this is THE game you'll be playing for the next few years? Burned out? Somewhere in the middle? I'm curious.
Fine, I'll bite.
My original intention with FFXIV was playing it for the year or so until WildStar, maybe, releases. I am still unconvinced they ll make it before summer or autumn next year.
I got 2 jobs to 50 with the relevant classes for additional skills at 34, and a crafter to 50. Relic weapon on my monk, darklight gear on 1 job, never set foot into Coil yet, and only killed Titan HM twice.
So far, so good. The game has made a grave mistake with the FATE system, but in this day and age I suspect a shortcut to max level for solo rushers is required, since pretty much every MMO has had a "fast lane" to max for years now. FATE is better than some of these, worse than others.
The 4 endgame dungeons are alright, with the 8 ppl ones being somewhat boringly easy, and the 4 ppl groups being okayish. A definite lack of variety, but again, this is like WoW cataclysm where only the two Zul heroics were relevant, and thus its once more a point where I have to say: You wont get it better anywhere else.
FFXIV released with quite a lot of content in comparison to every other MMO I can remember in the last years, and for a more casual guild like the one I run, Coil is going to be interesting to do for a bit longer. I am not convinced the idea of implementing an EASIER step into the raid progression in 2.1 is a good idea at all, but we will see.
The thing is, players on these very forums, and everywhere else, have been clamoring and talking about a "next gen" of MMOs since Age of Conan. It will not happen. People have also been saying that every MMO to release in the past 10 years has not had enough endgame content. It will never be any different. Sandboxes do not, financially, work out with EVE being the exception. There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
I believe it is time to realize that the massive amounts of playing time, together with the drive towards optimization, the path of least resistance, and the sheer speed with which a playerbase zeroes in on even minor design flaws of any game cannot be counteracted or prevented by the developers. The last time IMO that this worked was Burning Crusade, up until the long content gap after Black Temple, and the bad idea of the Badge system which has since taken over MMOs.
It is simply not feasible to expect months and months of content, when you play 6+ hours per day, optimize your gain regardless of how "fun" that is, and push the limits every night with a group of dedicated gamers.
WildStar will fail utterly in that regard as well. Carbine is not magically able to deliver three times the content, better tuned and exploit proof, than all other companies have.
FFXIV is a solid MMO with a good range of stuff, that doesnt have any overly glaring issues aside from possibly the FATE system. You wont get more than that from any other MMO, or otherwise we would have gotten it in the last 7 years since BC.
We're here a month later (a month I opted not to resubscribe for, as I had completed all the content already).
Where's everyone standing now? Still feeling like this is THE game you'll be playing for the next few years? Burned out? Somewhere in the middle? I'm curious.
Fine, I'll bite.
My original intention with FFXIV was playing it for the year or so until WildStar, maybe, releases. I am still unconvinced they ll make it before summer or autumn next year.
I got 2 jobs to 50 with the relevant classes for additional skills at 34, and a crafter to 50. Relic weapon on my monk, darklight gear on 1 job, never set foot into Coil yet, and only killed Titan HM twice.
So far, so good. The game has made a grave mistake with the FATE system, but in this day and age I suspect a shortcut to max level for solo rushers is required, since pretty much every MMO has had a "fast lane" to max for years now. FATE is better than some of these, worse than others.
The 4 endgame dungeons are alright, with the 8 ppl ones being somewhat boringly easy, and the 4 ppl groups being okayish. A definite lack of variety, but again, this is like WoW cataclysm where only the two Zul heroics were relevant, and thus its once more a point where I have to say: You wont get it better anywhere else.
FFXIV released with quite a lot of content in comparison to every other MMO I can remember in the last years, and for a more casual guild like the one I run, Coil is going to be interesting to do for a bit longer. I am not convinced the idea of implementing an EASIER step into the raid progression in 2.1 is a good idea at all, but we will see.
The thing is, players on these very forums, and everywhere else, have been clamoring and talking about a "next gen" of MMOs since Age of Conan. It will not happen. People have also been saying that every MMO to release in the past 10 years has not had enough endgame content. It will never be any different. Sandboxes do not, financially, work out with EVE being the exception. There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
I believe it is time to realize that the massive amounts of playing time, together with the drive towards optimization, the path of least resistance, and the sheer speed with which a playerbase zeroes in on even minor design flaws of any game cannot be counteracted or prevented by the developers. The last time IMO that this worked was Burning Crusade, up until the long content gap after Black Temple, and the bad idea of the Badge system which has since taken over MMOs.
It is simply not feasible to expect months and months of content, when you play 6+ hours per day, optimize your gain regardless of how "fun" that is, and push the limits every night with a group of dedicated gamers.
WildStar will fail utterly in that regard as well. Carbine is not magically able to deliver three times the content, better tuned and exploit proof, than all other companies have.
FFXIV is a solid MMO with a good range of stuff, that doesnt have any overly glaring issues aside from possibly the FATE system. You wont get more than that from any other MMO, or otherwise we would have gotten it in the last 7 years since BC.
So basically FFXIV is no better than F2P MMOs out there, the only question is do you want to pay 30+15/month for FF skin.
If they really require sub they should have put out 1 content update already and nearing 2nd content update. SWTOR, RIft both already had new content this far since launch. Not to mention SWTOR had immensly more content at launch.
And, as things look like, both SWTOR and Rift have faster content updates even as F2P.
Originally posted by Ender4 It will survive because people like the IP and are willing to overlook how mediocre a game it is to play the IP. It isn't going to thrive though.
Its the best AAA themepark crafting system by a country mile. Not your cup of tea? Totally understandable. Mediocre? Nah.
It will survive because people like the IP and are willing to overlook how mediocre a game it is to play the IP. It isn't going to thrive though.
There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
There hasn't been a real attempt at one ever either. All of the AAA companies have gone with the WoW clone so far.
There's a reason for that, they just don't make money, why would someone make a game to lose money.
There's truth to what both of you say.
I honestly can't think of a sandbox MMO that's ever really been funded properly. By that same token, I'm thinking it's also because people weren't ready for it. Think about it. If people are bored of themeparks, when content is structured, clearly defined, and laid out for you... imagine how bored they'd get when they started in the world with, say, a shovel, no content, no direction, and no limits. I'd give the average player 3 hours, tops, before they looked for something else.
I do think, however, that a sandbox-centric game with a loosely organized storyline/loreset (ala Fallout style) would thrive more than anything else out there, though.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Originally posted by bcbully Dungeons, quest, and mobs CANNOT drop gear if you expect to have a viable crafting economy. It just does not work. They have to give something else.
Not true, they can but such needs to be limited. Quests should only offer a gear reward at end of like a long chain. Mobs shouldn't drop random gear but like dungeon boss's drop stuff. This leaves many gaps for crafted to fit in. Lets say you have 15 slots for gear total in whatever game you have half of those slots at any level reserved more for crafted stuff. You can also make certain desired stats only available through crafted items. But this means someone either has to craft themselves or be willing to buy off of a crafter. But the games these days don't want to force people into needing either craft or buy off a crafter.
Originally posted by Drakephire
Easy to blame it on WoW, but the reality is that most of us hardcore players have grown up, have careers (instead of jobs), have families, have other interests and a circle of friends outside of gaming. My ego is still there, it's just that it is no longer satisfied by moving meaningless pixels around on a computer. Rather, real world accomplishments are what matter. Games are but a distraction.
Yes we have grown up and moved up in the world. But we still want the same sorts of things we wanted before. We are not the same type of gamer's today's younger generation is. In were from a generation when gaming was much more skill and thinking based and not just cool graphics and animations with quick rewards. But we still want ingame accomplishments while we divide our time more between RL and game life. But yes, much of the change in MMORPGs from the developers end is on WoW's shoulders. They are the ones who changed the genre to increase profit and pick up casual kiddies (plenty of hardcore young players out there).
I'm glad SE didn't listen to you then. Not everyone likes crafting and player economy.. In fact I hate it, reason why i stopped playing EQ2 (you have to buy better versions of abilities). I dont play games to recreate working a job and buying some over priced junk just in digital format.
My original intention with FFXIV was playing it for the year or so until WildStar, maybe, releases. I am still unconvinced they ll make it before summer or autumn next year.
I got 2 jobs to 50 with the relevant classes for additional skills at 34, and a crafter to 50. Relic weapon on my monk, darklight gear on 1 job, never set foot into Coil yet, and only killed Titan HM twice.
So far, so good. The game has made a grave mistake with the FATE system, but in this day and age I suspect a shortcut to max level for solo rushers is required, since pretty much every MMO has had a "fast lane" to max for years now. FATE is better than some of these, worse than others.
The 4 endgame dungeons are alright, with the 8 ppl ones being somewhat boringly easy, and the 4 ppl groups being okayish. A definite lack of variety, but again, this is like WoW cataclysm where only the two Zul heroics were relevant, and thus its once more a point where I have to say: You wont get it better anywhere else.
FFXIV released with quite a lot of content in comparison to every other MMO I can remember in the last years, and for a more casual guild like the one I run, Coil is going to be interesting to do for a bit longer. I am not convinced the idea of implementing an EASIER step into the raid progression in 2.1 is a good idea at all, but we will see.
The thing is, players on these very forums, and everywhere else, have been clamoring and talking about a "next gen" of MMOs since Age of Conan. It will not happen. People have also been saying that every MMO to release in the past 10 years has not had enough endgame content. It will never be any different. Sandboxes do not, financially, work out with EVE being the exception. There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
I believe it is time to realize that the massive amounts of playing time, together with the drive towards optimization, the path of least resistance, and the sheer speed with which a playerbase zeroes in on even minor design flaws of any game cannot be counteracted or prevented by the developers. The last time IMO that this worked was Burning Crusade, up until the long content gap after Black Temple, and the bad idea of the Badge system which has since taken over MMOs.
It is simply not feasible to expect months and months of content, when you play 6+ hours per day, optimize your gain regardless of how "fun" that is, and push the limits every night with a group of dedicated gamers.
WildStar will fail utterly in that regard as well. Carbine is not magically able to deliver three times the content, better tuned and exploit proof, than all other companies have.
FFXIV is a solid MMO with a good range of stuff, that doesnt have any overly glaring issues aside from possibly the FATE system. You wont get more than that from any other MMO, or otherwise we would have gotten it in the last 7 years since BC.
So basically FFXIV is no better than F2P MMOs out there, the only question is do you want to pay 30+15/month for FF skin.
If they really require sub they should have put out 1 content update already and nearing 2nd content update. SWTOR, RIft both already had new content this far since launch. Not to mention SWTOR had immensly more content at launch.
And, as things look like, both SWTOR and Rift have faster content updates even as F2P.
Wrong. Its no better nor worse than MMOs out there. The distinction between F2P cash shop, B2P and P2P are meaningless to me, because its so little money in either case, it will never mean anything in comparison to the vast amount of time most of us invest in these games. 13 bucks, 15 bucks, 0 bucks but extra costs, in the end its about the quality of gameplay experience, because time is MUCH more valuable than a few dollars or euros.
I havent tried Rift, but it went down and seeing how Trion is handling Defiance, I can see why. Not a good developer. SWTOR was a nice attempt, but it actually was pretty badly designed in how it didnt manage to make its content last. You were fully geared within what, 3 weeks of casual play after hitting level cap? Some of us got their entire set within 1 week of raids, due to them dropping like candy.
Content patches are, obviously, a must, but when we compare it to other P2P titles (since you seem to fond of comparing by payment models), you can see that we are talking 3-4 months per patch, best case scenario. F2P usually releases either small, or even more seldomly. Guild Wars 2 is the ONLY MMO that really pushes the envelope of speed here.
FFXIV, right now, seems to me the best newish MMO to experience. I have tried most of them, and I liked my time in SWTOR, AoC, WoW, GW2, but it really comes down to none of them being all that great.
It will survive because people like the IP and are willing to overlook how mediocre a game it is to play the IP. It isn't going to thrive though.
There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
There hasn't been a real attempt at one ever either. All of the AAA companies have gone with the WoW clone so far.
There's a reason for that, they just don't make money, why would someone make a game to lose money.
There's truth to what both of you say.
I honestly can't think of a sandbox MMO that's ever really been funded properly. By that same token, I'm thinking it's also because people weren't ready for it. Think about it. If people are bored of themeparks, when content is structured, clearly defined, and laid out for you... imagine how bored they'd get when they started in the world with, say, a shovel, no content, no direction, and no limits. I'd give the average player 3 hours, tops, before they looked for something else.
I do think, however, that a sandbox-centric game with a loosely organized storyline/loreset (ala Fallout style) would thrive more than anything else out there, though.
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Originally posted by Ender4 It will survive because people like the IP and are willing to overlook how mediocre a game it is to play the IP. It isn't going to thrive though.
Its the best AAA themepark crafting system by a country mile. Not your cup of tea? Totally understandable. Mediocre? Nah.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
It will survive because people like the IP and are willing to overlook how mediocre a game it is to play the IP. It isn't going to thrive though.
There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
There hasn't been a real attempt at one ever either. All of the AAA companies have gone with the WoW clone so far.
There's a reason for that, they just don't make money, why would someone make a game to lose money.
There's truth to what both of you say.
I honestly can't think of a sandbox MMO that's ever really been funded properly. By that same token, I'm thinking it's also because people weren't ready for it. Think about it. If people are bored of themeparks, when content is structured, clearly defined, and laid out for you... imagine how bored they'd get when they started in the world with, say, a shovel, no content, no direction, and no limits. I'd give the average player 3 hours, tops, before they looked for something else.
I do think, however, that a sandbox-centric game with a loosely organized storyline/loreset (ala Fallout style) would thrive more than anything else out there, though.
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Thats why if you wait a bit you can play most of them for free
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Thats why if you wait a bit you can play most of them for free
The only problem is that "waiting a bit" in the case of AAA MMO's has so far almost never been less than a year.
In an age where an entire payment model (F2P) is designed around the fact players will pay for "convenience" and faster progression, it is clearly pointless expecting the average player to "wait a bit"
The only ones that are likely to "wait" are those who're not really interested anyway.
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Thats why if you wait a bit you can play most of them for free
The only problem is that "waiting a bit" in the case of AAA MMO's has so far almost never been less than a year.
In an age where an entire payment model (F2P) is designed around the fact players will pay for "convenience" and faster progression, it is clearly pointless expecting the average player to "wait a bit"
The only ones that are likely to "wait" are those who're not really interested anyway.
What you really mean is "those who are not extra hyped and really impatient"
For instance, i want to try Wildstar and TESO, but ill just wait a bit ;P
Consider the benefits:
Game finally gets to state where it should have been when released 1-2 years after release (content, bugs, balance....)
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Thats why if you wait a bit you can play most of them for free
The only problem is that "waiting a bit" in the case of AAA MMO's has so far almost never been less than a year.
In an age where an entire payment model (F2P) is designed around the fact players will pay for "convenience" and faster progression, it is clearly pointless expecting the average player to "wait a bit"
The only ones that are likely to "wait" are those who're not really interested anyway.
What you really mean is "those who are not extra hyped and really impatient"
For instance, i want to try Wildstar and TESO, but ill just wait a bit ;P
Consider the benefits:
Game finally gets to state where it should have been when released 1-2 years after release (content, bugs, balance....)
You get to play for free.
Its a win/win....for me
Playing dead F2P games gets old to me, but to each their own. I would much rather be one of the pioneers of a MMO than a late comer.
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Thats why if you wait a bit you can play most of them for free
The only problem is that "waiting a bit" in the case of AAA MMO's has so far almost never been less than a year.
In an age where an entire payment model (F2P) is designed around the fact players will pay for "convenience" and faster progression, it is clearly pointless expecting the average player to "wait a bit"
The only ones that are likely to "wait" are those who're not really interested anyway.
What you really mean is "those who are not extra hyped and really impatient"
For instance, i want to try Wildstar and TESO, but ill just wait a bit ;P
Consider the benefits:
Game finally gets to state where it should have been when released 1-2 years after release (content, bugs, balance....)
You get to play for free.
Its a win/win....for me
Playing dead F2P games gets old to me, but to each their own. I would much rather be one of the pioneers of a MMO than a late comer.
The only thing you are "pioneering" these days is paid beta.
So i thank all "pioneers" out there i can play properly tested and fixed games for free
The only thing you are "pioneering" these days is paid beta.
So i thank all "pioneers" out there i can play properly tested and fixed games for free
This game wont go F2P. The fact that they re-released it after it bombed the first time. And that its a FF title. Its not going f2p ... this isnt TSW, that was designed with a Item mall when it released and then ooops we went f2p... lol ya like that wasnt planned.
The only thing you are "pioneering" these days is paid beta.
So i thank all "pioneers" out there i can play properly tested and fixed games for free
This game wont go F2P. The fact that they re-released it after it bombed the first time. And that its a FF title. Its not going f2p ... this isnt TSW, that was designed with a Item mall when it released and then ooops we went f2p... lol ya like that wasnt planned.
LOTRO, AoC, SWTOR, EQ2...need say more?
You can also look at it from perspective that they left themselves some room to have 3rd launch (would that be a record?) - F2P launch.
I aways chuckle when i remember EA/BW saying "F2P is inferior model for failed games and we absolutely plan on providing quality to be top P2P game" before launch.
And i consider SWTOR ultra superior game to FFXIVARR. Though its also good to mention EA expected WoW numbers and SE mentioned like 400k so....perspective.
Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by didjeramaLOTRO, AoC, SWTOR, EQ2...need say more?
Yes. Turbine, Funcom, EA, SoE...no need to say more SE is not holy cow. Do you really really think they wouldnt do it? They never did with FFXI. They said they would not do it with FFXIV. I have no reason to doubt them.
Comments
For me this fast levelling speed was a huge relief. Sadly I can only be online for 1-2 hours max, mostly I just play on Fridays and Saturdays (8 hour gaming marathons, lol). My way to greatness is a bit slow, and I'm glad you don't have to "live" in the game to reach max lvl. But yeah, for hardcore players it must be a disappointment.
We're here a month later (a month I opted not to resubscribe for, as I had completed all the content already).
Where's everyone standing now? Still feeling like this is THE game you'll be playing for the next few years? Burned out? Somewhere in the middle? I'm curious.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Staying power is a powerfull word.
We each do stuff on our own pace, we all have our own objectives we want to reach in mmo's.
I play not only for the contend but also to socialise and hang out with my buddy's.
The thing is that themeparks need to keep feeding endgame contend, this is imposible as there are guilds and people who play mmo's 18 hours a day and clear new contend within 1 or 2 weeks while the normal and casual crowd take a month or many months to play trough it.
Themepark design is very hard to keep up with hardcore players as it takes many dev's and many hours creating new contend that need to last weeks or months.
Its imposible to keep up with hardcore players unless you make it a horrible grind and then you get players that start whining its to grindy.
So there has to be a middle road where its fun and not a 8 month grind for the more casual players who pay the bills for most mmo's.
Also in my personal vieuw the themepark mmo's need to make place for good sandbox games.
When you look at inovation then mmo's are just miles behind, once 2014 comes and we see games like Destiny / The Devision / Watch Dogs / GTA5 all sandbox games ! you see how endless the posibilty's realy are.
Or Eve Online for example a game from 2003 that keeps increasing their members base year after year.
Its time that mmo's studio's look beyond leveling and grinds and introduce new mechanics and look at mmo's from a diffrent angle.
The whole genre is getting old and tiresome.
Nothing new just plain game mechanics that have been in place for many many many years.
Most bitter mmo vets long for a time when thigs were fresh and new not the same old copy paste mmo number 9879130 that try's to take the best and sell it as a totaly new invention
While i think FFARR is great fun and it never tried to sell me a fake promise of a new wonderland it still is a themepark based on the old foundation of mmo's.
Lets hope that like the next gen games the mmo genre moves also to a new way of playing and socialise.
Fine, I'll bite.
My original intention with FFXIV was playing it for the year or so until WildStar, maybe, releases. I am still unconvinced they ll make it before summer or autumn next year.
I got 2 jobs to 50 with the relevant classes for additional skills at 34, and a crafter to 50. Relic weapon on my monk, darklight gear on 1 job, never set foot into Coil yet, and only killed Titan HM twice.
So far, so good. The game has made a grave mistake with the FATE system, but in this day and age I suspect a shortcut to max level for solo rushers is required, since pretty much every MMO has had a "fast lane" to max for years now. FATE is better than some of these, worse than others.
The 4 endgame dungeons are alright, with the 8 ppl ones being somewhat boringly easy, and the 4 ppl groups being okayish. A definite lack of variety, but again, this is like WoW cataclysm where only the two Zul heroics were relevant, and thus its once more a point where I have to say: You wont get it better anywhere else.
FFXIV released with quite a lot of content in comparison to every other MMO I can remember in the last years, and for a more casual guild like the one I run, Coil is going to be interesting to do for a bit longer. I am not convinced the idea of implementing an EASIER step into the raid progression in 2.1 is a good idea at all, but we will see.
The thing is, players on these very forums, and everywhere else, have been clamoring and talking about a "next gen" of MMOs since Age of Conan. It will not happen. People have also been saying that every MMO to release in the past 10 years has not had enough endgame content. It will never be any different. Sandboxes do not, financially, work out with EVE being the exception. There hasnt been a financially successful mainstream sandbox MMO ever.
I believe it is time to realize that the massive amounts of playing time, together with the drive towards optimization, the path of least resistance, and the sheer speed with which a playerbase zeroes in on even minor design flaws of any game cannot be counteracted or prevented by the developers. The last time IMO that this worked was Burning Crusade, up until the long content gap after Black Temple, and the bad idea of the Badge system which has since taken over MMOs.
It is simply not feasible to expect months and months of content, when you play 6+ hours per day, optimize your gain regardless of how "fun" that is, and push the limits every night with a group of dedicated gamers.
WildStar will fail utterly in that regard as well. Carbine is not magically able to deliver three times the content, better tuned and exploit proof, than all other companies have.
FFXIV is a solid MMO with a good range of stuff, that doesnt have any overly glaring issues aside from possibly the FATE system. You wont get more than that from any other MMO, or otherwise we would have gotten it in the last 7 years since BC.
So basically FFXIV is no better than F2P MMOs out there, the only question is do you want to pay 30+15/month for FF skin.
If they really require sub they should have put out 1 content update already and nearing 2nd content update. SWTOR, RIft both already had new content this far since launch. Not to mention SWTOR had immensly more content at launch.
And, as things look like, both SWTOR and Rift have faster content updates even as F2P.
It will survive because people like the IP and are willing to overlook how mediocre a game it is to play the IP. It isn't going to thrive though.
There hasn't been a real attempt at one ever either. All of the AAA companies have gone with the WoW clone so far.
Its the best AAA themepark crafting system by a country mile. Not your cup of tea? Totally understandable. Mediocre? Nah.
There's a reason for that, they just don't make money, why would someone make a game to lose money.
There's truth to what both of you say.
I honestly can't think of a sandbox MMO that's ever really been funded properly. By that same token, I'm thinking it's also because people weren't ready for it. Think about it. If people are bored of themeparks, when content is structured, clearly defined, and laid out for you... imagine how bored they'd get when they started in the world with, say, a shovel, no content, no direction, and no limits. I'd give the average player 3 hours, tops, before they looked for something else.
I do think, however, that a sandbox-centric game with a loosely organized storyline/loreset (ala Fallout style) would thrive more than anything else out there, though.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I'm glad SE didn't listen to you then. Not everyone likes crafting and player economy.. In fact I hate it, reason why i stopped playing EQ2 (you have to buy better versions of abilities). I dont play games to recreate working a job and buying some over priced junk just in digital format.
Wrong. Its no better nor worse than MMOs out there. The distinction between F2P cash shop, B2P and P2P are meaningless to me, because its so little money in either case, it will never mean anything in comparison to the vast amount of time most of us invest in these games. 13 bucks, 15 bucks, 0 bucks but extra costs, in the end its about the quality of gameplay experience, because time is MUCH more valuable than a few dollars or euros.
I havent tried Rift, but it went down and seeing how Trion is handling Defiance, I can see why. Not a good developer. SWTOR was a nice attempt, but it actually was pretty badly designed in how it didnt manage to make its content last. You were fully geared within what, 3 weeks of casual play after hitting level cap? Some of us got their entire set within 1 week of raids, due to them dropping like candy.
Content patches are, obviously, a must, but when we compare it to other P2P titles (since you seem to fond of comparing by payment models), you can see that we are talking 3-4 months per patch, best case scenario. F2P usually releases either small, or even more seldomly. Guild Wars 2 is the ONLY MMO that really pushes the envelope of speed here.
FFXIV, right now, seems to me the best newish MMO to experience. I have tried most of them, and I liked my time in SWTOR, AoC, WoW, GW2, but it really comes down to none of them being all that great.
That may well be, but from all the snippets of dev talk from various companies, there simply is nobody with any kind of money that will back this claim. Even EVE isnt a very luring prospect for an investor, as it is a slow-burn kind of success, not the instant high ROI upon release.
If we keep hopping from theme park to theme park every few months, burning through content and buying them at full price, we are actually spending MUCH more money on games in general, than if we stay with one WOW-like juggernaut for 5 years straight.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Thats why if you wait a bit you can play most of them for free
The only problem is that "waiting a bit" in the case of AAA MMO's has so far almost never been less than a year.
In an age where an entire payment model (F2P) is designed around the fact players will pay for "convenience" and faster progression, it is clearly pointless expecting the average player to "wait a bit"
The only ones that are likely to "wait" are those who're not really interested anyway.
seriously does ever game has to have this :(WHY I THINK (aka in my opinion ) this game is going to fail?
and yet these games still up and running
What you really mean is "those who are not extra hyped and really impatient"
For instance, i want to try Wildstar and TESO, but ill just wait a bit ;P
Consider the benefits:
Game finally gets to state where it should have been when released 1-2 years after release (content, bugs, balance....)
You get to play for free.
Its a win/win....for me
Playing dead F2P games gets old to me, but to each their own. I would much rather be one of the pioneers of a MMO than a late comer.
The only thing you are "pioneering" these days is paid beta.
So i thank all "pioneers" out there i can play properly tested and fixed games for free
This game wont go F2P. The fact that they re-released it after it bombed the first time. And that its a FF title. Its not going f2p ... this isnt TSW, that was designed with a Item mall when it released and then ooops we went f2p... lol ya like that wasnt planned.
LOTRO, AoC, SWTOR, EQ2...need say more?
You can also look at it from perspective that they left themselves some room to have 3rd launch (would that be a record?) - F2P launch.
I aways chuckle when i remember EA/BW saying "F2P is inferior model for failed games and we absolutely plan on providing quality to be top P2P game" before launch.
And i consider SWTOR ultra superior game to FFXIVARR. Though its also good to mention EA expected WoW numbers and SE mentioned like 400k so....perspective.
Turbine, Funcom, EA, SoE...no need to say more
SE is not holy cow. They are business like everyone else. Do you really really think they wouldnt do it?
Also remember that there was a time all those companies were respected....until they werent any more ;P
SE is not holy cow. Do you really really think they wouldnt do it?
They never did with FFXI. They said they would not do it with FFXIV. I have no reason to doubt them.