You can have your static scripted content. That's good for one, maybe a few shots. Then it's done and nothing more than grinding. It's little wonder that you game hop so much looking for new scripted content.
Yeah, and there are plenty of new content to play. I don't know what the fuzz is.
It is not like i have to stick to one game to have fun. Most people don't play only one video game.
Well, you play them all and I don't play any.
There's no "fuzz" in that for you, I can see that.
I preferred UO where there was more then just one all mighty level to work on or determine how strong you were. I can relate finally GMing a skill or getting the the skill level where I could control a new pet (loved taming skill) was an accomplishment that got you congratz from strangers.
IMHO EQ was a double edged sword to the genre. It simplified roles boiling it down into a class option which people liked but in doing so it created an all mighty level which made EQ feel like a mind numbing grind for me. I didn't last long before I went running back to UO
WoW replaced the level grind with gear grind, which I dislike even more then xp grinding and everyone has followed.
You can have your static scripted content. That's good for one, maybe a few shots. Then it's done and nothing more than grinding. It's little wonder that you game hop so much looking for new scripted content.
Yeah, and there are plenty of new content to play. I don't know what the fuzz is.
It is not like i have to stick to one game to have fun. Most people don't play only one video game.
Well, you play them all and I don't play any.
There's no "fuzz" in that for you, I can see that.
What's absolutely fascinating about EQ is that it was good in part because the developers were sadistic bastards. :P No seriously by implementing a harsh death mechanic it added quiite a bit to the game. I'd frequently have to go back to get my body - and i'd get different gear out of the bank to do it. And you felt real stress knowing that if you die again you would be really screwed..
Trains were the same kind of thing - rushing to get to the zone line to avoid death had real weight with the sadistic death mechanic. The developers also through in random kick the crap out of you mobs in the newbie zones. It goes on and on.. You had to go to different cities to find spells.. Not just go back to the trainer. It was a really long and slow trek to other parts of the world..
Basically EQ was about creating a virtual world - with all sorts of world like downsides. I think the sandbox vs. theme park meme obscures this fact. The sadistic - I don't care nature of the developers is what put their game ahead. Not sure we will ever get that back..
I don't even think the developers at the time understood this - how quality of life improvements can actually mess up your game. What happens is that you get to focus more on the 'stuff' of the game - and that stuff is kinda boring. Imagine EQ1 if you couldn't really die - and could go anywhere instantly. That's really not the most exciting game..
What we need is another developer that sets out to make the best damn game they know how - and says essentially 'screw you' to the customer. Why? Because the human mind craves the most efficent easiest path even if it sucks in the end. If you had modern QoL convience on one EQ server and the old hardcore stuff on another - most would pick the easy path. Even though all those people would think the game sucks!
I know another poster was commenting that conviences are good. Here is the rub - THEY ARE OFTEN NOT. Its counter intutive but real..
LOL you have achievements now. Just like everyone else.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by rodingo I never played EQ so the sound/expression has little meaning to me. However I always got annoyed with people in guild chat for whichever themepark I was playing that feel the need to announce, " Ding! " in guild chat each and every time they leveled. As if getting from level 9 to level 10 in any themepark MMO in the past 8 years or so was something of a feat, much less something that the guild as a whole cared about. In EQ I can see it being a bigger deal.
You're not alone. Constantly hearing people do it (especially in a new MMO that just launched and everyone is in the same zones) for every single level they get even when it took 15 minutes from the last level gets so irritating.
However, I did play EQ at launch and even then I never got the point of announcing it just to get all the obligatory grats that people felt they were required to put in chat.
What's absolutely fascinating about EQ is that it was good in part because the developers were sadistic bastards. :P No seriously by implementing a harsh death mechanic it added quiite a bit to the game.
It was how I met my future wife. She was looking for somebody to summon her corpse to the zone line. I had a Necromancer and helped her out and the rest is history. There was a game mechanic that changed my life thank you EQ devs.
I loved the leveling speed in EQ1 release and I loved that one could lose their level. I never would say ding or even acknowledge a new level until I was 20% in.
I recall once early after release I was playing an alt and ran into two players that asked me to group with them. They were both around level 15. They told me that had been that level for 2 months. I quickly found out why. They kept pulling far to many mobs and would die, die and then die again. EQ1 was a wonderful game. The fear of death and loss was such a cool thing. Fights and good groups actually felt meaningful. Reputation mattered, Such a shame that everything is now easy mode.
I loved the leveling speed in EQ1 release and I loved that one could lose their level. I never would say ding or even acknowledge a new level until I was 20% in.
I recall once early after release I was playing an alt and ran into two players that asked me to group with them. They were both around level 15. They told me that had been that level for 2 months. I quickly found out why. They kept pulling far to many mobs and would die, die and then die again. EQ1 was a wonderful game. The fear of death and loss was such a cool thing. Fights and good groups actually felt meaningful. Reputation mattered, Such a shame that everything is now easy mode.
nah .. it just add more grind. EQ grinding the same mob for xp again and again has little challenge and it is easy and boring mode.
I loved the leveling speed in EQ1 release and I loved that one could lose their level. I never would say ding or even acknowledge a new level until I was 20% in.
I recall once early after release I was playing an alt and ran into two players that asked me to group with them. They were both around level 15. They told me that had been that level for 2 months. I quickly found out why. They kept pulling far to many mobs and would die, die and then die again. EQ1 was a wonderful game. The fear of death and loss was such a cool thing. Fights and good groups actually felt meaningful. Reputation mattered, Such a shame that everything is now easy mode.
nah .. it just add more grind. EQ grinding the same mob for xp again and again has little challenge and it is easy and boring mode.
Not to say that camping was not in the game but it was not that easy. Most camps you had to break up the spawn to camp and watch for any patrols. Not only that you had to stay on your toes because if you took to long to clear our your spawn when it popped you would get adds and adds most of the time was a corpse run. I didn't find that any more of a grind then running from a to b to c over and over again. To each their own.
I know another poster was commenting that conviences are good. Here is the rub - THEY ARE OFTEN NOT. Its counter intutive but real..
"good" is subjective.
Convenience is good for me. I doubt you know what is good or bad for me better than me.
"Good" for the popularity and appeal for the game. And FWIW what is fascinating is that people know how the feel (obviously) but are very often mistaken on WHY they feel that way. Think of the maybe 50 or so 'quality of life improvements' they added to World of Warcraft as compared to the Vanilla - and then remember they have LESS subscribers.
Voqar wins the award for the best post I've seen on this forum in years (from both the "pros" and non-pros). This should be a sticky, but it might get buried beneath ads from..umm...Neverwinter and Ancient Summoner (?!?!) ...sigh
Hats off to the OP as well. Terrific post. I'm totally with you, and feel your "Ding"
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand. - DIFFICULT
People confuse the word because essentially it has two meanings under one - especially with MMOs.
There are those of us who LOVE how difficult EQ was in terms of the first part of the definiton : effort.
There are those of us who LOVE how difficult WoW Arena was to be on top before gear was in the mix, or how tough monsters in tera were to take down before strats were made, or how tough timing your skills correctly and counter-intutively in age of wushu was.
I hate hearing time and time again that Everquest was not difficult.
because by definition it was extremely difficult. it took a LOT of EFFORT in order to do anything in that game.
EQ needed alot of effort - sure but there was plenty of intelligence and some skill involved. One very cool thing about EQ was the lack of 'good knowlege' about the game on the web. This made knowing the in's and out's of the game tremendously useful in a way that modern themepark data mined games can't match.
Think of the maybe 50 or so 'quality of life improvements' they added to World of Warcraft as compared to the Vanilla - and then remember they have LESS subscribers.
uh? WOW grew MUCH bigger after vanilla. It does not decline until CATA.
And yes, those quality of life stuff is great. If it is not for LFD and LFR, i would have quit a lot earlier.
EQ needed alot of effort - sure but there was plenty of intelligence and some skill involved. One very cool thing about EQ was the lack of 'good knowlege' about the game on the web. This made knowing the in's and out's of the game tremendously useful in a way that modern themepark data mined games can't match.
What are you dreaming?
You never heard of EQ Stratics and a thousand other spoiler sites?
What's absolutely fascinating about EQ is that it was good in part because the developers were sadistic bastards. :P No seriously by implementing a harsh death mechanic it added quiite a bit to the game. I'd frequently have to go back to get my body - and i'd get different gear out of the bank to do it. And you felt real stress knowing that if you die again you would be really screwed..
Trains were the same kind of thing - rushing to get to the zone line to avoid death had real weight with the sadistic death mechanic. The developers also through in random kick the crap out of you mobs in the newbie zones. It goes on and on.. You had to go to different cities to find spells.. Not just go back to the trainer. It was a really long and slow trek to other parts of the world..
Basically EQ was about creating a virtual world - with all sorts of world like downsides. I think the sandbox vs. theme park meme obscures this fact. The sadistic - I don't care nature of the developers is what put their game ahead. Not sure we will ever get that back..
I don't even think the developers at the time understood this - how quality of life improvements can actually mess up your game. What happens is that you get to focus more on the 'stuff' of the game - and that stuff is kinda boring. Imagine EQ1 if you couldn't really die - and could go anywhere instantly. That's really not the most exciting game..
What we need is another developer that sets out to make the best damn game they know how - and says essentially 'screw you' to the customer. Why? Because the human mind craves the most efficent easiest path even if it sucks in the end. If you had modern QoL convience on one EQ server and the old hardcore stuff on another - most would pick the easy path. Even though all those people would think the game sucks!
I know another poster was commenting that conviences are good. Here is the rub - THEY ARE OFTEN NOT. Its counter intutive but real..
This is an EXCELLENT point! One with I agree with wholeheartedly. It is the difficulties of a game that make the game...getting from one city to another was a quest in-and-of itself! I love games where quests just happen...and are not always scripted.
And to the guy that is so down on EQN, Why so negative? Why not watch and see instead of forming such a negative attitude about the game when we know so little about it so far? Healthy Optimism is always more enjoyable.
Because i've seen enough to know that im going to hate it. Not just dislike it, but hate it.
Its like asking a homosexual man to hold out and find out more about a dude he is interested in after he finds out the guy is straight. Its simply not an option for him and being "optimistic" is only going to result in even more dissapointment.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
You never heard of EQ Stratics and a thousand other spoiler sites?"
They didn't always provide accurate information - and they were missing a ton of info. Something like WoW head tells you nearly exactly what to do with pictures - even video. There is absolutely no mystery left in these games nowadays. Not even a little bit..
It's light years ahead of how it used to be in making these easy. This is why EQN claims to have good AI that will react so datamining is less useful. It's too bad SOE management is brain dead and now only makes explotative pain to win crap - otherwise its a good idea.
We could use a good developer who will use AI better. I love to see an MMO where you could just straight up talk to NPCs to get quests or learn things about the world - and that these NPCs would use AI instead of scripted responses. There would also need to be alot of them because there are alot of MMO players..
A giant living breathing world - that could bring players back to the genre. I wonder if I will live long enough to see it. It seems the only improvements we have hand in gaming in the last 20 years is a nicer skin over games - as well as the power to handle 3d gaming..
But we need the world to be alot smarter - like the so called "storybricks'..
A giant living breathing world - that could bring players back to the genre. I wonder if I will live long enough to see it. It seems the only improvements we have hand in gaming in the last 20 years is a nicer skin over games - as well as the power to handle 3d gaming..
We already live in a gaint living breathing world and people want to escape from it into entertainment.
The question is not whether a game is a "giant living breathing world" but whether it is fun and entertaining.
Now entertaining is very subjective, of course. To me, a level-based games like Deus Ex Human Evolution (hence no giant living world) is 100x more entertaining and fun than UO or Eve, which arguable have more of a world.
Honestly, Nariu, you do know that not every game is meant for everybody. To many vocal people wanting all games to fit their mold in a genre filled with clones.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal Honestly, Nariu, you do know that not every game is meant for everybody. To many vocal people wanting all games to fit their mold in a genre filled with clones.
Yes, i state very clearly that "Now entertaining is very subjective, of course. To me, a level-based games like Deus Ex Human Evolution (hence no giant living world) is 100x more entertaining and fun than UO or Eve, which arguable have more of a world."
And what clones? If you think games with totally different mechanics, settings and IPs are clones .. then well .. it is your problem. I can and intend to enjoy the variety of gaming.
Comments
Well, you play them all and I don't play any.
There's no "fuzz" in that for you, I can see that.
Once upon a time....
I preferred UO where there was more then just one all mighty level to work on or determine how strong you were. I can relate finally GMing a skill or getting the the skill level where I could control a new pet (loved taming skill) was an accomplishment that got you congratz from strangers.
IMHO EQ was a double edged sword to the genre. It simplified roles boiling it down into a class option which people liked but in doing so it created an all mighty level which made EQ feel like a mind numbing grind for me. I didn't last long before I went running back to UO
WoW replaced the level grind with gear grind, which I dislike even more then xp grinding and everyone has followed.
Wait... you don't play any MMO and you are here?
What's absolutely fascinating about EQ is that it was good in part because the developers were sadistic bastards. :P No seriously by implementing a harsh death mechanic it added quiite a bit to the game. I'd frequently have to go back to get my body - and i'd get different gear out of the bank to do it. And you felt real stress knowing that if you die again you would be really screwed..
Trains were the same kind of thing - rushing to get to the zone line to avoid death had real weight with the sadistic death mechanic. The developers also through in random kick the crap out of you mobs in the newbie zones. It goes on and on.. You had to go to different cities to find spells.. Not just go back to the trainer. It was a really long and slow trek to other parts of the world..
Basically EQ was about creating a virtual world - with all sorts of world like downsides. I think the sandbox vs. theme park meme obscures this fact. The sadistic - I don't care nature of the developers is what put their game ahead. Not sure we will ever get that back..
I don't even think the developers at the time understood this - how quality of life improvements can actually mess up your game. What happens is that you get to focus more on the 'stuff' of the game - and that stuff is kinda boring. Imagine EQ1 if you couldn't really die - and could go anywhere instantly. That's really not the most exciting game..
What we need is another developer that sets out to make the best damn game they know how - and says essentially 'screw you' to the customer. Why? Because the human mind craves the most efficent easiest path even if it sucks in the end. If you had modern QoL convience on one EQ server and the old hardcore stuff on another - most would pick the easy path. Even though all those people would think the game sucks!
I know another poster was commenting that conviences are good. Here is the rub - THEY ARE OFTEN NOT. Its counter intutive but real..
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
You're not alone. Constantly hearing people do it (especially in a new MMO that just launched and everyone is in the same zones) for every single level they get even when it took 15 minutes from the last level gets so irritating.
However, I did play EQ at launch and even then I never got the point of announcing it just to get all the obligatory grats that people felt they were required to put in chat.
It was how I met my future wife. She was looking for somebody to summon her corpse to the zone line. I had a Necromancer and helped her out and the rest is history.
There was a game mechanic that changed my life thank you EQ devs.
I loved the leveling speed in EQ1 release and I loved that one could lose their level. I never would say ding or even acknowledge a new level until I was 20% in.
I recall once early after release I was playing an alt and ran into two players that asked me to group with them. They were both around level 15. They told me that had been that level for 2 months. I quickly found out why. They kept pulling far to many mobs and would die, die and then die again. EQ1 was a wonderful game. The fear of death and loss was such a cool thing. Fights and good groups actually felt meaningful. Reputation mattered, Such a shame that everything is now easy mode.
"good" is subjective.
Convenience is good for me. I doubt you know what is good or bad for me better than me.
nah .. it just add more grind. EQ grinding the same mob for xp again and again has little challenge and it is easy and boring mode.
Not to say that camping was not in the game but it was not that easy. Most camps you had to break up the spawn to camp and watch for any patrols. Not only that you had to stay on your toes because if you took to long to clear our your spawn when it popped you would get adds and adds most of the time was a corpse run. I didn't find that any more of a grind then running from a to b to c over and over again. To each their own.
"Good" for the popularity and appeal for the game. And FWIW what is fascinating is that people know how the feel (obviously) but are very often mistaken on WHY they feel that way. Think of the maybe 50 or so 'quality of life improvements' they added to World of Warcraft as compared to the Vanilla - and then remember they have LESS subscribers.
Voqar wins the award for the best post I've seen on this forum in years (from both the "pros" and non-pros). This should be a sticky, but it might get buried beneath ads from..umm...Neverwinter and Ancient Summoner (?!?!) ...sigh
Hats off to the OP as well. Terrific post. I'm totally with you, and feel your "Ding"
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand. - DIFFICULT
People confuse the word because essentially it has two meanings under one - especially with MMOs.
There are those of us who LOVE how difficult EQ was in terms of the first part of the definiton : effort.
There are those of us who LOVE how difficult WoW Arena was to be on top before gear was in the mix, or how tough monsters in tera were to take down before strats were made, or how tough timing your skills correctly and counter-intutively in age of wushu was.
I hate hearing time and time again that Everquest was not difficult.
because by definition it was extremely difficult. it took a LOT of EFFORT in order to do anything in that game.
EQ needed alot of effort - sure but there was plenty of intelligence and some skill involved. One very cool thing about EQ was the lack of 'good knowlege' about the game on the web. This made knowing the in's and out's of the game tremendously useful in a way that modern themepark data mined games can't match.
uh? WOW grew MUCH bigger after vanilla. It does not decline until CATA.
And yes, those quality of life stuff is great. If it is not for LFD and LFR, i would have quit a lot earlier.
What are you dreaming?
You never heard of EQ Stratics and a thousand other spoiler sites?
Because i've seen enough to know that im going to hate it. Not just dislike it, but hate it.
Its like asking a homosexual man to hold out and find out more about a dude he is interested in after he finds out the guy is straight. Its simply not an option for him and being "optimistic" is only going to result in even more dissapointment.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
"What are you dreaming?
You never heard of EQ Stratics and a thousand other spoiler sites?"
They didn't always provide accurate information - and they were missing a ton of info. Something like WoW head tells you nearly exactly what to do with pictures - even video. There is absolutely no mystery left in these games nowadays. Not even a little bit..
It's light years ahead of how it used to be in making these easy. This is why EQN claims to have good AI that will react so datamining is less useful. It's too bad SOE management is brain dead and now only makes explotative pain to win crap - otherwise its a good idea.
We could use a good developer who will use AI better. I love to see an MMO where you could just straight up talk to NPCs to get quests or learn things about the world - and that these NPCs would use AI instead of scripted responses. There would also need to be alot of them because there are alot of MMO players..
A giant living breathing world - that could bring players back to the genre. I wonder if I will live long enough to see it. It seems the only improvements we have hand in gaming in the last 20 years is a nicer skin over games - as well as the power to handle 3d gaming..
But we need the world to be alot smarter - like the so called "storybricks'..
We already live in a gaint living breathing world and people want to escape from it into entertainment.
The question is not whether a game is a "giant living breathing world" but whether it is fun and entertaining.
Now entertaining is very subjective, of course. To me, a level-based games like Deus Ex Human Evolution (hence no giant living world) is 100x more entertaining and fun than UO or Eve, which arguable have more of a world.
This reminded me of LONG ago in southern Ro.....
Yes, i state very clearly that "Now entertaining is very subjective, of course. To me, a level-based games like Deus Ex Human Evolution (hence no giant living world) is 100x more entertaining and fun than UO or Eve, which arguable have more of a world."
And what clones? If you think games with totally different mechanics, settings and IPs are clones .. then well .. it is your problem. I can and intend to enjoy the variety of gaming.