Now this is a post I can agree with at least . I desperately want a game where the player has more control over the world.
We can't even get a game (any more) where the player has complete control over his appearance. Basic cosmetics.
Too expensive. Bad for PVP. Too hard. We'll sell it to you for $X more.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There are definitely people who care about MMORPGs. I don't know if the number of people who "care" about MMORPGs are significant relative to the number of people who just care about games though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have to wonder though, are games more dumbed down and easier because the people who're making them are now older and have kids and have less time? We see younger indie developers come in and create some amazing hard games and bringing the challenge and diversity back. Do older developers just create stuff their kids want to play or create stuff because they feel like people don't have the time to play them as they do?
I have to wonder though, are games more dumbed down and easier because the people who're making them are now older and have kids and have less time? We see younger indie developers come in and create some amazing hard games and bringing the challenge and diversity back. Do older developers just create stuff their kids want to play or create stuff because they feel like people don't have the time to play them as they do?
I don't see the audience asking for it.
No? Every new AAA MMO created with this more casual friendly design sells millions of copies.......and the largest sub based MMO for the past 9 years still dominates the market.
That's what's driving the designs, not the audience.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For me, most of the magic is gone, maybe because I am older now and the freshness of a mmorpg for me just doesn't meet my expectations anymore.
Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies were my all time favorites and had depth for me, even when those games were in their prime. Today we depend to much on content the developer has to gives us and reaching end game in our mmorpgs. The sense of imagination is out the door and as a gamer now, I think I lost that element.
When World of Warcraft was first released it was fantastic, but it was still missing that element for me about caring about my character even when I was offline. WoW characters for me felt more static and fake where as the other mmo characters I felt more compassion for if something happen to them (maybe its just me).
For me, most of the magic is gone, maybe because I am older now and the freshness of a mmorpg for me just doesn't meet my expectations anymore.
Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies were my all time favorites and had depth for me, even when those games were in their prime. Today we depend to much on content the developer has to gives us and reaching end game in our mmorpgs. The sense of imagination is out the door and as a gamer now, I think I lost that element.
When World of Warcraft was first released it was fantastic, but it was still missing that element for me about caring about my character even when I was offline. WoW characters for me felt more static and fake where as the other mmo characters I felt more compassion for if something happen to them (maybe its just me).
For me it was UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, SWG
But yeah I agree 100% The character was an extension of you in an alternate fantasy, was in a way like an enjoyable relaxing second life.... the New MMO's of today lack this, they lack Role Play they lack that special feel....
But I wait and hope that a new Sandbox will be released that will bring back that UO feel again!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
I think it's telling that several major games of the coming generation are avoiding using the "MMO" label, even though they are blatantly MMOs (Destiny and Star Citizen come to mind).
Not so much. I'm very cautiously optimistic that Wildstar or Archage might offer some fun but I'm okay with skipping them and any other future mmos entirely if they feel like the same ol' shit. And shit is what i've been seeing in the genre for some time now.
To me, MMO does not equal MMORPG. I consider MMO as a broad term, with MMORPG being a subset of MMO.
I like RPGs, especially those with multiplayer gameplay assuming PVP is optional / avoidable. I'm really only interested in PVE. Being PK'd by random players while I'm out questing is definitely not a positive event.
I like adventuring and exploration. I find questing for XP is a tedius chore. I enjoy farming and crafting. For me, the occasional dungeon run with friends is the highlight of my gameplay.
I'm not involved in raiding because I play casually and can never meet the requirements needed to play with hardcore players.
I guess what I'm waiting for is an exploration / adventure PVE virtual world that doesn't cater to hardcores.
... I'm getting the feeling that this is isn't ever going to happen.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by remyburke I want to still love MMOs, but developers aren't making them for me anymore sadly.....
"want to love MMOs"? They are just games.
May be you should find another hobby.
Devs have the freedom to cater to anyone. We have the freedom to choose any entertainment we want.
he says he wants to love them...you're telling him to find another hobby.
isn't it obvious he doesn't want another hobby?
If he doesn't like the hobby he has, why shouldn't he find another one? This is what happens when people get unrealistically fixated on a single genre and can't do anything else. If you no longer enjoy something that you used to enjoy in the past, you shouldn't spend all of your time whining about it, you should go find something else to do.
Originally posted by remyburke I want to still love MMOs, but developers aren't making them for me anymore sadly.....
"want to love MMOs"? They are just games.
May be you should find another hobby.
Devs have the freedom to cater to anyone. We have the freedom to choose any entertainment we want.
he says he wants to love them...you're telling him to find another hobby.
isn't it obvious he doesn't want another hobby?
If he doesn't like the hobby he has, why shouldn't he find another one? This is what happens when people get unrealistically fixated on a single genre and can't do anything else. If you no longer enjoy something that you used to enjoy in the past, you shouldn't spend all of your time whining about it, you should go find something else to do.
And if he said "he wants to", and give lots of reasons not to .. he is really not loving it. He may be just seeking justification to go somewhere.
And even if he really wants to, i can always air my two cents, can't i? Who says "love" cannot change. Just look at all the divorces in this country.
Honestly no. I do not care about mmos as much as I used to thanks to developers trying to make mmos that please everyone. We haven't had such a good mmo in such a long time now it is going to take a miracle to bring back the greatness of the genre. More interested in games like Skyrim, Destiny,The Division and Star Citizen.
Originally posted by Cephus404 Originally posted by Robokapp Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by remyburke I want to still love MMOs, but developers aren't making them for me anymore sadly.....
"want to love MMOs"? They are just games.
May be you should find another hobby.
Devs have the freedom to cater to anyone. We have the freedom to choose any entertainment we want.
he says he wants to love them...you're telling him to find another hobby.
isn't it obvious he doesn't want another hobby?
If he doesn't like the hobby he has, why shouldn't he find another one? This is what happens when people get unrealistically fixated on a single genre and can't do anything else. If you no longer enjoy something that you used to enjoy in the past, you shouldn't spend all of your time whining about it, you should go find something else to do.
And if he said "he wants to", and give lots of reasons not to .. he is really not loving it. He may be just seeking justification to go somewhere.
And even if he really wants to, i can always air my two cents, can't i? Who says "love" cannot change. Just look at all the divorces in this country.
So essentially if things don't go his way take his ball and go home?
I seriously doubt the MMORPG world will stay the same. I am in the same boat as I don't like most of the current games but peak in to see if change happens. Ironic from someone who was around during the old schools and hates that style you surely did stick around.
take a look at 2:46 thourough 3:45. He defines a 'game' as a subclass of interactive challenge involving conflict. Such a thing can not possibly be fun 100% of the time so while it's important and essential for it to be fun overall, sometimes it might be difficult to identify quickly what the overall sum is.
by that definition, a lot of times when people say "it's just a game" also would make them wrong and are in fact talking about a "toy" not a game, it seems.
You sure had a strange takeaway from that video. Good video, though. Definitely watch it again.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So essentially if things don't go his way take his ball and go home? I seriously doubt the MMORPG world will stay the same. I am in the same boat as I don't like most of the current games but peak in to see if change happens. Ironic from someone who was around during the old schools and hates that style you surely did stick around.
Yeh .. it is not like he is changing the industry.
Oh, MMORPG will change .. it already have. The question is how. MOBA is a new trend. I am seeing MMORPG will morph into something very different ... like Destiny.
I still care about them. They just don't care about me anymore.
So lopsided. You really would care about products produced by uncaring developers?
Personally i just treat them as replace-able products.
It's the expectation of perpetual entertainment for only fifty cents a day that seems to be crumbling. But perhaps it was never all too realistic in the first place.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
It's the expectation of perpetual entertainment for only fifty cents a day that seems to be crumbling. But perhaps it was never all too realistic in the first place.
Agreed. Competition drives the old model out.
1) Perpetual entertainment in just one game is pale in comparison to sampling many different entertainment options. I doubt many will stick to just playing one game in today's sea of unending entertainment.
2) Subbing for a game is just so yesterday. B2P, F2P, unending free trials, freemium .... fit consumers expectation, and needs better. The sub-only model is not only in decline but held up by one last declining game (WOW). How ESO is trying to turn the tide, we will see soon how that works out.
2) Subbing for a game is just so yesterday. B2P, F2P, unending free trials, freemium .... fit consumers expectation, and needs better.
You say that yet I can't find one of these f2p games fun to play. They cost me nothing but I still don't play them.
Quality is rare and people have no problem paying for it.
Fun is subjective.
I found many of those f2p games fun to play. In fact, Marvel Heroes has a free fun 30 hours story content that is more fun (to me) than any sub-MMOs like WoW, or Eve.
Sure, people have no problem paying for it .. but why would they want to when there is free alternative that is as, if not more, fun?
Comments
We can't even get a game (any more) where the player has complete control over his appearance. Basic cosmetics.
Too expensive. Bad for PVP. Too hard. We'll sell it to you for $X more.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Settle down in a game? You must be joking. It is probability more likely that i stop gaming than doing that.
In fact, as i grew older, as opposed to spend more time in a single game, i spent LESS.
Define "people".
There are definitely people who care about MMORPGs. I don't know if the number of people who "care" about MMORPGs are significant relative to the number of people who just care about games though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have to wonder though, are games more dumbed down and easier because the people who're making them are now older and have kids and have less time? We see younger indie developers come in and create some amazing hard games and bringing the challenge and diversity back. Do older developers just create stuff their kids want to play or create stuff because they feel like people don't have the time to play them as they do?
I don't see the audience asking for it.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
No? Every new AAA MMO created with this more casual friendly design sells millions of copies.......and the largest sub based MMO for the past 9 years still dominates the market.
That's what's driving the designs, not the audience.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This, its just regurgitated instanced theamparks with crappy crafting and no pvp....
Just sick of the theampark!!!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
For me, most of the magic is gone, maybe because I am older now and the freshness of a mmorpg for me just doesn't meet my expectations anymore.
Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies were my all time favorites and had depth for me, even when those games were in their prime. Today we depend to much on content the developer has to gives us and reaching end game in our mmorpgs. The sense of imagination is out the door and as a gamer now, I think I lost that element.
When World of Warcraft was first released it was fantastic, but it was still missing that element for me about caring about my character even when I was offline. WoW characters for me felt more static and fake where as the other mmo characters I felt more compassion for if something happen to them (maybe its just me).
For me it was UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, SWG
But yeah I agree 100% The character was an extension of you in an alternate fantasy, was in a way like an enjoyable relaxing second life.... the New MMO's of today lack this, they lack Role Play they lack that special feel....
But I wait and hope that a new Sandbox will be released that will bring back that UO feel again!
UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem
"want to love MMOs"? They are just games.
May be you should find another hobby.
Devs have the freedom to cater to anyone. We have the freedom to choose any entertainment we want.
I think it's telling that several major games of the coming generation are avoiding using the "MMO" label, even though they are blatantly MMOs (Destiny and Star Citizen come to mind).
To me, MMO does not equal MMORPG. I consider MMO as a broad term, with MMORPG being a subset of MMO.
I like RPGs, especially those with multiplayer gameplay assuming PVP is optional / avoidable. I'm really only interested in PVE. Being PK'd by random players while I'm out questing is definitely not a positive event.
I like adventuring and exploration. I find questing for XP is a tedius chore. I enjoy farming and crafting. For me, the occasional dungeon run with friends is the highlight of my gameplay.
I'm not involved in raiding because I play casually and can never meet the requirements needed to play with hardcore players.
I guess what I'm waiting for is an exploration / adventure PVE virtual world that doesn't cater to hardcores.
... I'm getting the feeling that this is isn't ever going to happen.
If he doesn't like the hobby he has, why shouldn't he find another one? This is what happens when people get unrealistically fixated on a single genre and can't do anything else. If you no longer enjoy something that you used to enjoy in the past, you shouldn't spend all of your time whining about it, you should go find something else to do.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
And if he said "he wants to", and give lots of reasons not to .. he is really not loving it. He may be just seeking justification to go somewhere.
And even if he really wants to, i can always air my two cents, can't i? Who says "love" cannot change. Just look at all the divorces in this country.
I still care about them. They just don't care about me anymore.
"want to love MMOs"? They are just games.
May be you should find another hobby.
Devs have the freedom to cater to anyone. We have the freedom to choose any entertainment we want.
he says he wants to love them...you're telling him to find another hobby.
isn't it obvious he doesn't want another hobby?
If he doesn't like the hobby he has, why shouldn't he find another one? This is what happens when people get unrealistically fixated on a single genre and can't do anything else. If you no longer enjoy something that you used to enjoy in the past, you shouldn't spend all of your time whining about it, you should go find something else to do.
And if he said "he wants to", and give lots of reasons not to .. he is really not loving it. He may be just seeking justification to go somewhere.
And even if he really wants to, i can always air my two cents, can't i? Who says "love" cannot change. Just look at all the divorces in this country.
So essentially if things don't go his way take his ball and go home?I seriously doubt the MMORPG world will stay the same. I am in the same boat as I don't like most of the current games but peak in to see if change happens. Ironic from someone who was around during the old schools and hates that style you surely did stick around.
You sure had a strange takeaway from that video. Good video, though. Definitely watch it again.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So lopsided. You really would care about products produced by uncaring developers?
Personally i just treat them as replace-able products.
Yeh .. it is not like he is changing the industry.
Oh, MMORPG will change .. it already have. The question is how. MOBA is a new trend. I am seeing MMORPG will morph into something very different ... like Destiny.
It's the expectation of perpetual entertainment for only fifty cents a day that seems to be crumbling. But perhaps it was never all too realistic in the first place.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Agreed. Competition drives the old model out.
1) Perpetual entertainment in just one game is pale in comparison to sampling many different entertainment options. I doubt many will stick to just playing one game in today's sea of unending entertainment.
2) Subbing for a game is just so yesterday. B2P, F2P, unending free trials, freemium .... fit consumers expectation, and needs better. The sub-only model is not only in decline but held up by one last declining game (WOW). How ESO is trying to turn the tide, we will see soon how that works out.
You say that yet I can't find one of these f2p games fun to play. They cost me nothing but I still don't play them.
Quality is rare and people have no problem paying for it.
Fun is subjective.
I found many of those f2p games fun to play. In fact, Marvel Heroes has a free fun 30 hours story content that is more fun (to me) than any sub-MMOs like WoW, or Eve.
Sure, people have no problem paying for it .. but why would they want to when there is free alternative that is as, if not more, fun?