I think it should take 6-12 months to get to max level and that levels should mean something like they did in Everquest 1 with its famous "hell" levels, it seriously took me forever to grind off level 54 in sebilis.
That only worked back then because people didn't know any better. Today, such a game would me doomed to failure, and for a very good reason. That's not hard, that's utterly tedious.
What is the proper leveling curve for MMO’s these days?
While this question generally is referred back to Vertical Progression games, I still feel this question is also prudent for Horizontal Progression games such as EQN.
Everyone has their own opinions, but I would like to have an enlightened conversation to the pros and cons of both approaches to the growth rate of characters, in reference to the “race” to endgame content that seems to overwhelm games these days.
I will start off with spouting my own opinions. Right, Wrong…. No one will win that fight so let’s skip that battle.
I have the most love for games that have a very slow progression rate. Everquest brings back the fondest memories. While I know Everquest will spur some hatred because of “Hell levels”, and de-leveling, but I believe the time spent during the leveling process made my time in game enjoyable. Slowly leveling up gave me time to spend with groups and other players forming friendships, allowing us to group multiple times with the same group. I will note that some of that is still possible with a super fast leveling curve, I do not believe you can really get to know people in a 2hr group grind.
Let’s take an example from my gaming history. Cazic Thule was an XP group zone where anywhere from 40-60 players could participate in groups all over the zone and grind mobs for XP. With the leveling speed in EQ you could spend weeks in this zone. I remember logging into EQ, do a /who all command and notice the same people night after night. I got to know not only my group of 6 players, but other players outside of my group. I would shoot the shit with them over /ooc channel. A general sense of community was formed in these dungeons.
I am going to do a quick Pros list with a very brief example.
Pros
Achievement – What means more to people, getting a level that takes weeks of work or a couple hours of work? To me the harder it is to get something, the more rewarding it is when you actually get it.
Community – Building friendships with players takes time, and what a great way to get players to participate with each other than to slow down progression so players get to see each other more often that just in passing.
Game depth – A game has no depth to it if you can experience the entire game in 1-2 wks. Slow everything down, so that we honestly get to experience the game. (14yrs later I know Crushbone in EQ better than I know the CM dungeon in FFXIV that I ran 8 times yesterday.)
Memories – Allow the players to build memories, give them time to play zones, and really explore every nook and cranny.
Forced grouping – While I am sure this will be a hot topic, I think slowing down progression, in away forces players together. We as humans need to be a part of groups and socialize with each other. I think it benefits the game buy slowing the game down and inspiring players to interact with each other.
Players skill level – Giving players time to explore their characters/skills/attributes/resists and really dive into multiple situations and let them experience every way possible to play their class, it allows them time to acquire the knowledge to be better players, which than ties back into communities. Better players, make better group members, that in turn make the game more enjoyable to more players.
Development of content – Let us face the facts, we the players can consume content faster than developers can produce it. That should be a well established fact of gaming. Slowing the game down, allows developers to design not only more content, but better content, than simply racing out a new dungeon with re-skinned monster models. Maybe they could make dungeons, with pitfalls, traps, invisible walls, revolving doors, and other very unique scripted content. (Hoping this emergent AI is all that it seems to be, will see how it actually plays out once you throw a million players at it.
Making the game more about the journey, and less about the destination…. As the old adage would say.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Unlimited is not good if it is not fun.
That statement is rather pointless since you can replace 'unlimited' with any other word.
Originally posted by nariusseldon The question is not whether progression is unlimited.
For YOU, the question is not whether progression is unlimited, but you can't speak for others.
Originally posted by nariusseldon I may play an unlimited progression game if there are good random dungeons.
I don't think game makers are interested in the opinion of those who do not buy their products.
Dude this is awesome, best laugh I have had in a while because its true especially the last one. That guy is the posterboy for free online game hopping with zero social interaction.
While I know Everquest will spur some hatred because of “Hell levels”, and de-leveling, but I believe the time spent during the leveling process made my time in game enjoyable.
Or maybe it was just a normal "pain/pleasure" mechanism... after you went through a lot of tedium, being done with it feels like a major relief. That's good for a job when you're paid for it, but for a video game you pay to play... nor sure this design will ever come back for (in my opinion) the greater good.
Originally posted by Icewhite I wouldn't take either on a high-end raid, until after they've practiced some raiding skills and demonstrated their competence.
Oh, i was only talking about general gameplay. High-end raid requires hours of practice. I have been there, not very fun, and too much commitment.I prefer games to be more like games, and less like jobs.
Now, this is just a rumor, but I have heard that some people actually enjoy their jobs.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Neo_Viper That only worked back then because people didn't know any better. Today, such a game would me doomed to failure, and for a very good reason. That's not hard, that's utterly tedious.
It worked because it was fun. It was fun because more challenging content gave better XP rewards. It was fun because groups actually got XP faster than solo players. It was fun because two players could both camp one area for the same amount of time and the one who was more effecient would get a lot more XP. It wasn't just turn your brain off and mindless kill stuff and get XP handed to you every time you blink like current games.
Items would stay valuable for hours instead of minutes. The gameplay while leveling actually mattered because you spent significant time in it.
The pace of most MMORPG today is so fast that you might as well just throw out the leveling part.
Hell levels were a byproduct of a poorly written XP table, those certainly could be removed. The pacing of EQ in general was flat out better than the games of today.
I kinda knew this was gunna turn into a themepark vs sandbox thing but i wanted to deny it, but it happened anyway.
Here's my gripe with a game with no levels. its unrealistic. People get better, people progress, its a fact of life. If I continually do something I've never done before I'm bound to get better at it. So, I think its kind of a lie to design otherwise.
Look, I'm all for having access to all the content and all that sandboxy stuff but that doesnt mean you cant have levels.
(Even Minecraft has em)
You can still have a good sandbox experience with levels, as long as (I think) it doesnt do anything stupid like bar you from content. So... how long should it take to reach the end of progression, whether it be levels or whatever else.
Exactly.. When I first picked up a golf club, I didn't become PGA Tour Pro the same day.. As anything in life, you learn and grow.. I see nothing wrong with levels.. Now as to your question.. I like a lengthy duration to reach max level.. Somewhere between 1,000-1,500 hours sounds OK
Originally posted by Icewhite I wouldn't take either on a high-end raid, until after they've practiced some raiding skills and demonstrated their competence.
Oh, i was only talking about general gameplay. High-end raid requires hours of practice. I have been there, not very fun, and too much commitment.
I prefer games to be more like games, and less like jobs.
Now, this is just a rumor, but I have heard that some people actually enjoy their jobs.
Job enjoyment crew checking in.
To the OP's question, are we talking about how long do we think it should take from 0 to max level for the first time playing a character in a game ... or repeating content?
I think the preference of how long it should take to reach max level (whatever that means in the game you play) factors heavily on if you are playing the game for the first time or are re-playing it on a second or subsequent character. For me I dont usually pick up a new game, check to see what the level cap is and then start playing through as fast as I can. I actually dont even care how long it takes as long as I am having fun and there are things to do (either game driven or player driven).
I would like a considerable amount of time to reach max level, but with a relatively low level cap - say level 20 as in old AD&D rules.
each level, especially after the "lord" status - lvl 9 - would require considerable time to grind but most of the character's essential progression was already completed at that level.
The "Fun" journey should never end; to me, when the Fun ends, it's time to find another game. But the "max lvl" journey depends so much on individual games & individual players, that I don't know of any one answer.
To reach back 15 years in my own gaming lifetime, it took me about 6 months to hit near max lvl in EQ1. I remember the cap being 50, before Ruins of Kunark, and my character was 47 when that expansion came out. I have such fond memories of this gaming experience, because I played the game for fun: I explored, I socialized, I ventured into scary minotaur caves and creepy vampire castles. Everything was an adventure.
To reach back just a few years, I'd played Aion at launch, and in a month I was about 42; I believe the lvl cap was also 50 at the time. I cancelled my subscription within those first 30 days, though, and I don't have fond memories of that gaming experience. Everything to me was just grind grind grind, go go go, get it do it kill it, faster and faster and faster. I wasn't on a "Fun" journey at all; I played like I was on a treadmill.
The difference I think wasn't the games themselves, but me myself. The game vendors aren't the real difference, it is me adapting to what I perceive to be a change in the gaming environment - that change being from Go Have Fun, to How Fast Can I Hit Max Level.
Originally posted by Icewhite I wouldn't take either on a high-end raid, until after they've practiced some raiding skills and demonstrated their competence.
Oh, i was only talking about general gameplay. High-end raid requires hours of practice. I have been there, not very fun, and too much commitment.
I prefer games to be more like games, and less like jobs.
Now, this is just a rumor, but I have heard that some people actually enjoy their jobs.
Sure ... let me rephrase "I prefer games to be more like games, and less like chores." Are you going to tell me some like their chores too?
Originally posted by Icewhite I wouldn't take either on a high-end raid, until after they've practiced some raiding skills and demonstrated their competence.
Oh, i was only talking about general gameplay. High-end raid requires hours of practice. I have been there, not very fun, and too much commitment.I prefer games to be more like games, and less like jobs.
Now, this is just a rumor, but I have heard that some people actually enjoy their jobs.
Sure ... let me rephrase "I prefer games to be more like games, and less like chores." Are you going to tell me some like their chores too?
I don't think I can refute that and actually agree with you. I would like to have an MMORPG where I just can not wait to log in again, after logging off.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by bcbully I feel sorry for the people stuck in quest to level cap games. It's like they can't see anything else.
Totally this. In EQ, I logged on daily and decided where to hunt. In Quest games you log on and are told where to go and what to do.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky ...I would like to have an MMORPG where I just can not wait to log in again..
EQ was called EverCrack for a reason. For one year straight, and at 60 hours per week, I simply could not wait to log on. In Vanguard (quest hub game), I got very sick of doing what NPCs told me to do after about one month.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by bcbully I feel sorry for the people stuck in quest to level cap games. It's like they can't see anything else.
Totally this. In EQ, I logged on daily and decided where to hunt. In Quest games you log on and are told where to go and what to do.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky ...I would like to have an MMORPG where I just can not wait to log in again..
EQ was called EverCrack for a reason. For one year straight, and at 60 hours per week, I simply could not wait to log on. In Vanguard (quest hub game), I got very sick of doing what NPCs told me to do after about one month.
I am also waiting for the next game to spark that desire to log in and play. EVE did that for me for about 5 and a half years but the last year it has lost its steam, however, 5.5 years for an MMO is a very good run these days.
So lets say we removed character progression from a game so everyone was on a level playing field always (I know this would never happen IRL) ... then how would the game play out?
Originally posted by Icewhite I wouldn't take either on a high-end raid, until after they've practiced some raiding skills and demonstrated their competence.
Oh, i was only talking about general gameplay. High-end raid requires hours of practice. I have been there, not very fun, and too much commitment.
I prefer games to be more like games, and less like jobs.
Now, this is just a rumor, but I have heard that some people actually enjoy their jobs.
Sure ... let me rephrase "I prefer games to be more like games, and less like chores." Are you going to tell me some like their chores too?
That's not how all players are. My basketball coach generally ran us into exhaustion. It was rather chore like but its what I had to do play and be in shape to play.
Some people like challenge. Some people like quest that are more like trials.
I find what you like to be a chore more then anything I've ever played. Long past tired of task master NPC's telling me to do mundane crap.
Maybe there shouldn't be something like a max level/cap. I acknowledge that some people want a progress meter of some sort or another but all this does is effectively separating the player base among different levels of power and at the same time invalidating a lot of a game's content.
If the leveling experience continues along the same path it has the last few years of grinding quest hubs only to grind more quest hubs then I would say only a few days (just enough for people to get a grasp of mechanics), its tedious and unnecessary.
Now if the time it took to get to max level was a journey full of a ton of different things to do and at max level it further opens up and plays on previous content then I would say a month is a good time for hardcore players to reach max level. But only if the early/midgame was as appealing as the later stuff. Unfortunately this design style has gone out the window in place of the quest hub style.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
If the leveling experience continues along the same path it has the last few years of grinding quest hubs only to grind more quest hubs then I would say only a few days (just enough for people to get a grasp of mechanics), its tedious and unnecessary.
That is the problem with an open world. A dev can only put in quest hub type simple quests.
A game can easily make solo content much better by putting them in instances. DDO, STO, and NWO instances missions are much better than open world kill x mobs type quests because it can stage the events, and have a better narative in instances.
It should be virtually impossible to reach max level in mmos, i would prefer a logaritmic progression table and new levels being added before the first player reaches max level...
yes it would be grindy at top levels... But it would mean unlimmited progression.
So ya'll favor going back to MUDs after all, then? I've played that xp curve...in the late 80s.
Back to single-source experience, too? Crittur kills only? Is Lineage I still open?
I know I definitely favor going back to MUDs.
Obviously it's too late for most to want to go play something text based now, but there's a lot of mechanics from MUDs that never seemed to make the transition to their graphical counterparts that I would like to see. Extremely long(sometimes impossible to achieve) trips to max level would be one of them.
I'd like to see a good MMO came out that used the remort and tier systems.
Please do not mistake this for "how long should it take to reach end game"
I took me 1 month to reach max in FFXIV:ARR, which I think is fair. Especially because I didnt have to pay that entire month.
I hear vets saying it took 6+ months in the olden days, which doesnt sound bad but doesnt sound "good" either, it sounds like a journey. And I love journeys, but only if their fun.
So, to you, how long should the journey be?
No offense, but you're asking the wrong question.
The time it takes to reach max level does not define a fun game, or a journey. It's an artificial barrier, designed to make people spend more time on less content. It's not a factor of what makes a better game, and it should be obvious by now that people are wanting to hit that cap faster & faster with each released game. It takes about 2 days to cap out in FFXIV. It took about half a week in GW2. It took a couple weeks in SWTOR. It took almost a month in WAR. It used to take months - a year. Follow the pattern.
The truth is, these games don't need that rush to endgame (except as maybe part of a tutorial experience). So the question isn't how long should the journey to endgame be. The question is 'how can we focus on having an interesting journey, without the need for endgame?'.
The rush to endgame isn't sustainable. And we'll all be better off once more people start to realize AND accept this.
Originally posted by aesperus It took about half a week in GW2.
Did you stop eating, sleeping, washing yourself, disposed of your body wastes in a bucket near your computer?
Because while I agree leveling in GW2 is not "slow", getting to max level in 3 or 4 days would be hardly possible even with sacrificing your real life and your health in the process.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by aesperusIt took about half a week in GW2.
Did you stop eating, sleeping, washing yourself, disposed of your body wastes in a bucket near your computer?
Because while I agree leveling in GW2 is not "slow", getting to max level in 3 or 4 days would be hardly possible even with sacrificing your real life and your health in the process.
It took me about 1 month of casual play to get into the high 60s in GW2. I started with 9 days left in last month and right now I'm at 77. I play maybe 10-15 hours a week. My guess is if you are a focused leveler you can probably do 1 to 80 right now in a week of very heavy play.
Keep in mind that it is easier to level now as well. The daily rewards, being able to buy crafting materials cheap etc have all made leveling faster.
Comments
That only worked back then because people didn't know any better. Today, such a game would me doomed to failure, and for a very good reason. That's not hard, that's utterly tedious.
My computer is better than yours.
What is the proper leveling curve for MMO’s these days?
While this question generally is referred back to Vertical Progression games, I still feel this question is also prudent for Horizontal Progression games such as EQN.
Everyone has their own opinions, but I would like to have an enlightened conversation to the pros and cons of both approaches to the growth rate of characters, in reference to the “race” to endgame content that seems to overwhelm games these days.
I will start off with spouting my own opinions. Right, Wrong…. No one will win that fight so let’s skip that battle.
I have the most love for games that have a very slow progression rate. Everquest brings back the fondest memories. While I know Everquest will spur some hatred because of “Hell levels”, and de-leveling, but I believe the time spent during the leveling process made my time in game enjoyable. Slowly leveling up gave me time to spend with groups and other players forming friendships, allowing us to group multiple times with the same group. I will note that some of that is still possible with a super fast leveling curve, I do not believe you can really get to know people in a 2hr group grind.
Let’s take an example from my gaming history. Cazic Thule was an XP group zone where anywhere from 40-60 players could participate in groups all over the zone and grind mobs for XP. With the leveling speed in EQ you could spend weeks in this zone. I remember logging into EQ, do a /who all command and notice the same people night after night. I got to know not only my group of 6 players, but other players outside of my group. I would shoot the shit with them over /ooc channel. A general sense of community was formed in these dungeons.
I am going to do a quick Pros list with a very brief example.
Pros
Achievement – What means more to people, getting a level that takes weeks of work or a couple hours of work? To me the harder it is to get something, the more rewarding it is when you actually get it.
Community – Building friendships with players takes time, and what a great way to get players to participate with each other than to slow down progression so players get to see each other more often that just in passing.
Game depth – A game has no depth to it if you can experience the entire game in 1-2 wks. Slow everything down, so that we honestly get to experience the game. (14yrs later I know Crushbone in EQ better than I know the CM dungeon in FFXIV that I ran 8 times yesterday.)
Memories – Allow the players to build memories, give them time to play zones, and really explore every nook and cranny.
Forced grouping – While I am sure this will be a hot topic, I think slowing down progression, in away forces players together. We as humans need to be a part of groups and socialize with each other. I think it benefits the game buy slowing the game down and inspiring players to interact with each other.
Players skill level – Giving players time to explore their characters/skills/attributes/resists and really dive into multiple situations and let them experience every way possible to play their class, it allows them time to acquire the knowledge to be better players, which than ties back into communities. Better players, make better group members, that in turn make the game more enjoyable to more players.
Development of content – Let us face the facts, we the players can consume content faster than developers can produce it. That should be a well established fact of gaming. Slowing the game down, allows developers to design not only more content, but better content, than simply racing out a new dungeon with re-skinned monster models. Maybe they could make dungeons, with pitfalls, traps, invisible walls, revolving doors, and other very unique scripted content. (Hoping this emergent AI is all that it seems to be, will see how it actually plays out once you throw a million players at it.
Making the game more about the journey, and less about the destination…. As the old adage would say.
Dude this is awesome, best laugh I have had in a while because its true especially the last one. That guy is the posterboy for free online game hopping with zero social interaction.
Or maybe it was just a normal "pain/pleasure" mechanism... after you went through a lot of tedium, being done with it feels like a major relief. That's good for a job when you're paid for it, but for a video game you pay to play... nor sure this design will ever come back for (in my opinion) the greater good.
My computer is better than yours.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It worked because it was fun. It was fun because more challenging content gave better XP rewards. It was fun because groups actually got XP faster than solo players. It was fun because two players could both camp one area for the same amount of time and the one who was more effecient would get a lot more XP. It wasn't just turn your brain off and mindless kill stuff and get XP handed to you every time you blink like current games.
Items would stay valuable for hours instead of minutes. The gameplay while leveling actually mattered because you spent significant time in it.
The pace of most MMORPG today is so fast that you might as well just throw out the leveling part.
Hell levels were a byproduct of a poorly written XP table, those certainly could be removed. The pacing of EQ in general was flat out better than the games of today.
Exactly.. When I first picked up a golf club, I didn't become PGA Tour Pro the same day.. As anything in life, you learn and grow.. I see nothing wrong with levels.. Now as to your question.. I like a lengthy duration to reach max level.. Somewhere between 1,000-1,500 hours sounds OK
Job enjoyment crew checking in.
To the OP's question, are we talking about how long do we think it should take from 0 to max level for the first time playing a character in a game ... or repeating content?
I think the preference of how long it should take to reach max level (whatever that means in the game you play) factors heavily on if you are playing the game for the first time or are re-playing it on a second or subsequent character. For me I dont usually pick up a new game, check to see what the level cap is and then start playing through as fast as I can. I actually dont even care how long it takes as long as I am having fun and there are things to do (either game driven or player driven).
not sure if anyone reads Manga or watches Anime, But I like the Toriko methods of leveling.
The food they search aren't always the same for everyone, certain rare food upgrades one person, but not the other.
But you have to travel to dangerous locations, to find them, and to eat them. Then maybe you upgrade your skills.
using the same method, we can have a very long lasting, and no max level, or rather a very long but fun way of leveling to max.
BTW, they need to find the full course meal of the God of cooking to reach max or rather beyond max. So.... something to think about.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I would like a considerable amount of time to reach max level, but with a relatively low level cap - say level 20 as in old AD&D rules.
each level, especially after the "lord" status - lvl 9 - would require considerable time to grind but most of the character's essential progression was already completed at that level.
The "Fun" journey should never end; to me, when the Fun ends, it's time to find another game. But the "max lvl" journey depends so much on individual games & individual players, that I don't know of any one answer.
To reach back 15 years in my own gaming lifetime, it took me about 6 months to hit near max lvl in EQ1. I remember the cap being 50, before Ruins of Kunark, and my character was 47 when that expansion came out. I have such fond memories of this gaming experience, because I played the game for fun: I explored, I socialized, I ventured into scary minotaur caves and creepy vampire castles. Everything was an adventure.
To reach back just a few years, I'd played Aion at launch, and in a month I was about 42; I believe the lvl cap was also 50 at the time. I cancelled my subscription within those first 30 days, though, and I don't have fond memories of that gaming experience. Everything to me was just grind grind grind, go go go, get it do it kill it, faster and faster and faster. I wasn't on a "Fun" journey at all; I played like I was on a treadmill.
The difference I think wasn't the games themselves, but me myself. The game vendors aren't the real difference, it is me adapting to what I perceive to be a change in the gaming environment - that change being from Go Have Fun, to How Fast Can I Hit Max Level.
Sure ... let me rephrase "I prefer games to be more like games, and less like chores." Are you going to tell me some like their chores too?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Totally this. In EQ, I logged on daily and decided where to hunt. In Quest games you log on and are told where to go and what to do.
EQ was called EverCrack for a reason. For one year straight, and at 60 hours per week, I simply could not wait to log on. In Vanguard (quest hub game), I got very sick of doing what NPCs told me to do after about one month.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I am also waiting for the next game to spark that desire to log in and play. EVE did that for me for about 5 and a half years but the last year it has lost its steam, however, 5.5 years for an MMO is a very good run these days.
So lets say we removed character progression from a game so everyone was on a level playing field always (I know this would never happen IRL) ... then how would the game play out?
That's not how all players are. My basketball coach generally ran us into exhaustion. It was rather chore like but its what I had to do play and be in shape to play.
Some people like challenge. Some people like quest that are more like trials.
I find what you like to be a chore more then anything I've ever played. Long past tired of task master NPC's telling me to do mundane crap.
Maybe there shouldn't be something like a max level/cap. I acknowledge that some people want a progress meter of some sort or another but all this does is effectively separating the player base among different levels of power and at the same time invalidating a lot of a game's content.
If the leveling experience continues along the same path it has the last few years of grinding quest hubs only to grind more quest hubs then I would say only a few days (just enough for people to get a grasp of mechanics), its tedious and unnecessary.
Now if the time it took to get to max level was a journey full of a ton of different things to do and at max level it further opens up and plays on previous content then I would say a month is a good time for hardcore players to reach max level. But only if the early/midgame was as appealing as the later stuff. Unfortunately this design style has gone out the window in place of the quest hub style.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
That is the problem with an open world. A dev can only put in quest hub type simple quests.
A game can easily make solo content much better by putting them in instances. DDO, STO, and NWO instances missions are much better than open world kill x mobs type quests because it can stage the events, and have a better narative in instances.
I know I definitely favor going back to MUDs.
Obviously it's too late for most to want to go play something text based now, but there's a lot of mechanics from MUDs that never seemed to make the transition to their graphical counterparts that I would like to see. Extremely long(sometimes impossible to achieve) trips to max level would be one of them.
I'd like to see a good MMO came out that used the remort and tier systems.
No offense, but you're asking the wrong question.
The time it takes to reach max level does not define a fun game, or a journey. It's an artificial barrier, designed to make people spend more time on less content. It's not a factor of what makes a better game, and it should be obvious by now that people are wanting to hit that cap faster & faster with each released game. It takes about 2 days to cap out in FFXIV. It took about half a week in GW2. It took a couple weeks in SWTOR. It took almost a month in WAR. It used to take months - a year. Follow the pattern.
The truth is, these games don't need that rush to endgame (except as maybe part of a tutorial experience). So the question isn't how long should the journey to endgame be. The question is 'how can we focus on having an interesting journey, without the need for endgame?'.
The rush to endgame isn't sustainable. And we'll all be better off once more people start to realize AND accept this.
Did you stop eating, sleeping, washing yourself, disposed of your body wastes in a bucket near your computer?
Because while I agree leveling in GW2 is not "slow", getting to max level in 3 or 4 days would be hardly possible even with sacrificing your real life and your health in the process.
My computer is better than yours.
Because while I agree leveling in GW2 is not "slow", getting to max level in 3 or 4 days would be hardly possible even with sacrificing your real life and your health in the process.
It took me about 1 month of casual play to get into the high 60s in GW2. I started with 9 days left in last month and right now I'm at 77. I play maybe 10-15 hours a week. My guess is if you are a focused leveler you can probably do 1 to 80 right now in a week of very heavy play.
Keep in mind that it is easier to level now as well. The daily rewards, being able to buy crafting materials cheap etc have all made leveling faster.