Originally posted by BadOrb Meanwhile , I will have being playing the free expansion for SWTOR , with some of the 10 million people who have played it , might even top the over 1 million who played last month. MMO's don't suck the pricing model for EQNL does though. Mind you having said all that I hope it is a success , it seems Sony need all those dollars , after wasting a few years and money on not releasing "The Agency" they need to get some money back on that one.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
You do realize you can just play for free if you want right? Their cash shop almost certainly won't be as restrictive as your current games is either considering SWTOR is one of the worst F2P models out there. I mean complaining about F2P is one thing but saying that their pricing model sucks I'm gonna just go enjoy SWTOR Is ludicrous.
The only bad pricing model is the one that makes you pay a big fee up front and then charges you monthly to play what you already payed for. This model is a huge upgrade over that.
Originally posted by Ridrith I bought the Trailblazer pack because I have the extra income to spend what I want when I want. Especially when it comes to my gaming hobby so there you go. I think it's worth the price of early access, not to mention all of the awesome perks and items you get with the packs. I look forward to looking like a noble bad ass while I mine materials.
Well said sir.
I will buy the same pack because I want it, I can afford it, and I am very interested in the landmark game and its building process.
Didnt like it. Landmark is content creation by users for the game devs. Paying them for item advantages in content creation is essentially paying for working better for them which is ridicilous.
Please stop comparing SOE to kickstarter indie developers. SOE is a muti billion dollar global corporation.
If you think your 'supporting' them, you really are clueless. How much is the top 5 employee's salary at SOE? (Hint: The lowest is 150k plus bonuses per annum.)
Your money is lining their pockets, while they cackle at your foolishness.
Also, the games will be F2P! You won’t have to pay anything. In Planetside 2 only 10-15% of the player base supports the game while the rest get to play a (while not well optimized) fun game without paying a dime.
This is the part that actually bothers me. Whenever companies come out with a f2p game they think it's an excuse to be feature-light, half-finished etc. or pull lame moves like charging to test game. Well, hey it's f2p how can you complain. Is there any f2p game that isn't annoying, intrusive or creating game mechanics to "encourage" you to visit the CS. If it wasn't f2p would they charge for testing, or would fans make excuses for the bad parts of games. Probably not. Because it would lose subs. I would love to throw money at a complete, fun game on a monthly basis, but not pay nickle/dime to gain content, classes, etc. and even the cosmetic items like clothes or gear, I would rather buy from a crafter in game (you know, an actual economy). You say PS2 was not well optimized, maybe it would've been if it was subbed, as they would be held to a higher standard or people would take money elsewhere. You don't like something about game, tough shit it's f2p so don't gripe. Sorry, didn't quote you to single you out, just hate the f2p excuses that are rampant now that it's the price model du-jour. Not even going to reiterate how the f2p, coming and going tourist community in the games. I don't want 10-15% of players to pay for game because then too much of the devs focus go toward building up CS items and pushing people into it and not making it a great game on it's own. Sigh /end rant
Lets be honest though, most MMOs and other triple AAA titles don't come out bug free. It shocks me, and I don't like the fact that companies spend millions creating these games, but don't hold off a few months to polish their game before launch. They still do it though.
it is not just F2P that makes game inherently bad. PS2 is a successful MMO. Also pre-orders and early access are not just entitled to F2P, they even exist in single player games.
Yeah, i get it. I wasn't trying to bash you or EQL or N. I do plan on trying EQN and am excited about their ideas, but prefer P2P model to the CS driven model. But you are right most recent P2P games don't deserve to be P2P because, as you said, come out way to early and without much of promised features or polish. Maybe I expect too much from the industry or maybe it's too hard to make a modern mmo that impresses, but I'm tired of the crap that is released. Besides going back to DDO occasionally (sub), I haven't played a game full time since I think CO and that grew tiresome fast. I did play SWTOR for a month or so with friends. It was ok fun, but damn, thats all they could do with SW IP. I just want something engaging, challenging with long-term play. Hopefully EQN (even with some flaws, or things I dont like-CS, gfx) will have the mechanics for community and challenging gameplay.
While I am interested in playing around with Landmark, I am not going to invest money for early access. If this were EQ:N proper, then it would probably be a different story.
You people who are ragging on others who bought a founders pack and state that that those people are "ignorant" and "foolish" for spending money while yourself will be playing for free, should probably be best served by shutting up. Its people like the ones that pay for the founder packs that make F2P games possible. If nobody is willing to spend money on these games they wont exists.
I find it funny how people think companies can spend millions of dollars on developing a game and then maintain/update that game without any revenue. People need to think about what they are arguing about before they get what they wish for........
Please stop comparing SOE to kickstarter indie developers. SOE is a muti billion dollar global corporation.
If you think your 'supporting' them, you really are clueless. How much is the top 5 employee's salary at SOE? (Hint: The lowest is 150k plus bonuses per annum.)
Your money is lining their pockets, while they cackle at your foolishness.
Also, the games will be F2P! You won’t have to pay anything. In Planetside 2 only 10-15% of the player base supports the game while the rest get to play a (while not well optimized) fun game without paying a dime.
This is the part that actually bothers me. Whenever companies come out with a f2p game they think it's an excuse to be feature-light, half-finished etc. or pull lame moves like charging to test game. Well, hey it's f2p how can you complain. Is there any f2p game that isn't annoying, intrusive or creating game mechanics to "encourage" you to visit the CS. If it wasn't f2p would they charge for testing, or would fans make excuses for the bad parts of games. Probably not. Because it would lose subs. I would love to throw money at a complete, fun game on a monthly basis, but not pay nickle/dime to gain content, classes, etc. and even the cosmetic items like clothes or gear, I would rather buy from a crafter in game (you know, an actual economy). You say PS2 was not well optimized, maybe it would've been if it was subbed, as they would be held to a higher standard or people would take money elsewhere. You don't like something about game, tough shit it's f2p so don't gripe. Sorry, didn't quote you to single you out, just hate the f2p excuses that are rampant now that it's the price model du-jour. Not even going to reiterate how the f2p, coming and going tourist community in the games. I don't want 10-15% of players to pay for game because then too much of the devs focus go toward building up CS items and pushing people into it and not making it a great game on it's own. Sigh /end rant
Lets be honest though, most MMOs and other triple AAA titles don't come out bug free. It shocks me, and I don't like the fact that companies spend millions creating these games, but don't hold off a few months to polish their game before launch. They still do it though.
it is not just F2P that makes game inherently bad. PS2 is a successful MMO. Also pre-orders and early access are not just entitled to F2P, they even exist in single player games.
Yeah, i get it. I wasn't trying to bash you or EQL or N. I do plan on trying EQN and am excited about their ideas, but prefer P2P model to the CS driven model. But you are right most recent P2P games don't deserve to be P2P because, as you said, come out way to early and without much of promised features or polish. Maybe I expect too much from the industry or maybe it's too hard to make a modern mmo that impresses, but I'm tired of the crap that is released. Besides going back to DDO occasionally (sub), I haven't played a game full time since I think CO and that grew tiresome fast. I did play SWTOR for a month or so with friends. It was ok fun, but damn, thats all they could do with SW IP. I just want something engaging, challenging with long-term play. Hopefully EQN (even with some flaws, or things I dont like-CS, gfx) will have the mechanics for community and challenging gameplay.
Its fine, no worries. People and video games sometimes need to be "bashed" (tactful criticism mind you), And even as a fan boy of EQN i won't be afraid to criticize it if it flops.
And its not P2P that are the bane of this world either! MMOs and games in general have been coming out buggy as of late no matter what payment system they have been with. It is really dissapointing that there is not extra effort to high a third person party to put the game through some grinds (not just alpha/beta testers).
Whether a MMO is P2P, B2P or F2P; I dont care the payment system as long as its not P2W. All these systems work fine: FFXIV:ARR, GW2, PS2 as examples. Any game that attracts my interest will soon see my money being flung at it so I can atleast try it out. A good mmo will have a good community and if its your type of mmo then youll enjoy it that much more and be willing to pay whatever to play it.
Originally posted by Aison2 Didnt like it. Landmark is content creation by users for the game devs. Paying them for item advantages in content creation is essentially paying for working better for them which is ridicilous.
While I don't disagree with the idea that user created content in Landmark may end up in EQN. For some people its not just about paying for item boosts.
Take myself for example. I bought the trail blazer to support the company because I like the direction they are taking. Also to get early access so I can start playing a game I am really interested in.
Did you know its F2P? Since it is F2P and 100 bucks to a P2P game is more like, $60 for the game and 2 1/2 months of subscription fees (at $15 bucks a month). I am willing to part with some cash for it. And the game won't be out from alpha probably for a good 4 months atleast, so I feel I am getting my money's worth.
Also you could potentially earn your money back with Player Studio. If you are creative enough and users buy your, well, creations; you could maybe make a small profit for yourself. So early access for some founders could be to get ahead in the creative market place of Landmark and get use to the tools early.
Heck, some people just want a better builder then Minecraft and want to jump in and have fun already.
I think this type of collaboration with the community will make a better EQN in the long run anyhow. Think of the countless hours some people will spend creating high quality builds that could be used in EQN, better then some of the designers themselves I am sure. My example is Minecraft and its modding community (its HUGE!!!).
Hope this was informative and seems less ridiculous to ya now.
Originally posted by BadOrb Meanwhile , I will have being playing the free expansion for SWTOR , with some of the 10 million people who have played it , might even top the over 1 million who played last month. MMO's don't suck the pricing model for EQNL does though. Mind you having said all that I hope it is a success , it seems Sony need all those dollars , after wasting a few years and money on not releasing "The Agency" they need to get some money back on that one.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
You do realize you can just play for free if you want right? Their cash shop almost certainly won't be as restrictive as your current games is either considering SWTOR is one of the worst F2P models out there. I mean complaining about F2P is one thing but saying that their pricing model sucks I'm gonna just go enjoy SWTOR Is ludicrous.
The only bad pricing model is the one that makes you pay a big fee up front and then charges you monthly to play what you already payed for. This model is a huge upgrade over that.
Yeah it's going to be a pure F2P game which from your last paragrph seems to be your choice of pricing model , that's all fine and dandy. Considering over 1 million people log in to SWTOR per month then I think some of those people would disagree with you that SWTOR's freemium model sucks , obviously not all those 1 million plus people are subbs.
All it boils down to is the fact I would rather pay $60 on four months of SWTOR play time other than getting into an Alpha for an unfinished game.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
All it boils down to is the fact I would rather pay $60 on four months of SWTOR play time other than getting into an Alpha for an unfinished game.
personally i think of the EQNL founder pack as a Collectors edition w early access
Blizzard charged $150.00 for collectors edition of StarCraft 2 / Diablo 3
you could make the same statement - why spend extra when cash can be spent more effectively?
Which founder pack the $60 and/or $100 ? The $20 one is for beta only. I see your point yes $150 is a lot to spend on a collectors edition , but still they probably got a box and map and keyring or t-shirt or something ? So yeah EQNL's two expensive founder packs are like a digital collectors edition , yeah I can roll with that , requires a lot less room in the home to store it too , well infinitely less room. Still seems a bit odd a collectors edition of a F2P game , does anyone know if the actual release will have a box and if it's free ? We might not have all that information yet though.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
All it boils down to is the fact I would rather pay $60 on four months of SWTOR play time other than getting into an Alpha for an unfinished game.
personally i think of the EQNL founder pack as a Collectors edition w early access
Blizzard charged $150.00 for collectors edition of StarCraft 2 / Diablo 3
you could make the same statement - why spend extra when cash can be spent more effectively?
Which founder pack the $60 and/or $100 ? The $20 one is for beta only. I see your point yes $150 is a lot to spend on a collectors edition , but still they probably got a box and map and keyring or t-shirt or something ? So yeah EQNL's two expensive founder packs are like a digital collectors edition , yeah I can roll with that , requires a lot less room in the home to store it too , well infinitely less room. Still seems a bit odd a collectors edition of a F2P game , does anyone know if the actual release will have a box and if it's free ? We might not have all that information yet though.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
The 20.00 pack is unlimited closed beta as opposed to the seven day codes that will be given out during the closed beta period. You'll also get an in game+forum title, in game flag and the "Founder's Pickaxe".
I see your point about having to pay for a "CE" of a F2P MMO but what is being offered is really useful to people interested in LM, outside alpha/beta access.
Here is why I think spending $100 on getting a spot in EQN:L is not a big deal for me:
1. I will be getting a head start on the tools being used to build the EQN game. Right now EQN:L is the building tools, but they did mention that all the tools will be added in. Maybe there will be the ability to add other NPCs at your house/town/guild hall/ ... Hopefully when EQN:L launches I will already have a dozen or so templates in the vault waiting to submit to SoE to sell in the marketplace for when EQN launches. The more templates you are able to submit the better chance of getting something sold on the marketplace.
2. As others have mentioned, you indirectly get to help SoE refine the world building tools that are being used in EQN. The more Modders and other Players harden the tools the better EQN might become.
3. The Modding community is great and I expect that the ones who work on EQN:L will be equally as great. I would not be surprised to see novice and professional modders forming an awesome alpha/beta testing community. There will be much help and pie for all.
4. Consistency - the longer a beta team communicates/ works on things together the better the testing is.
So to me spending $100 does not seem like a big burden to me as it is a chance for me to help harden the tools that are being used to make the content in EQN, as well as hopefully join a great community of modders/testers in EQN:L that could carry over in the EQN. I mean ask yourself how great some of the other games could have been if the modding community had a chance to bang on the dev tools prior to that games launch. I know for sure that the last two Elder Scrolls games would have been much more enjoyable at release. Does anyone play an un-modified version of Skyrim?
Well, an update. Seems they won't accept their own currency (station cash) for founder's packs because... well, I don't know. They couldn't give me a reason as to why not; they just don't accept it, period. Cash up front or GTFO.
Obviously, this means I'll not be giving them one dime out of my pocket for the forseeable future.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Seems they won't accept their own currency (station cash) for founder's packs because... well, I don't know. They couldn't give me a reason as to why not; they just don't accept it, period. Cash up front or GTFO.
the only game that seems to still support SC is DCUO DLC packs
SOE discontinued using Station Cash for expansions a year ago
Comments
You do realize you can just play for free if you want right? Their cash shop almost certainly won't be as restrictive as your current games is either considering SWTOR is one of the worst F2P models out there. I mean complaining about F2P is one thing but saying that their pricing model sucks I'm gonna just go enjoy SWTOR Is ludicrous.
The only bad pricing model is the one that makes you pay a big fee up front and then charges you monthly to play what you already payed for. This model is a huge upgrade over that.
Well said sir.
I will buy the same pack because I want it, I can afford it, and I am very interested in the landmark game and its building process.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Yeah, i get it. I wasn't trying to bash you or EQL or N. I do plan on trying EQN and am excited about their ideas, but prefer P2P model to the CS driven model. But you are right most recent P2P games don't deserve to be P2P because, as you said, come out way to early and without much of promised features or polish. Maybe I expect too much from the industry or maybe it's too hard to make a modern mmo that impresses, but I'm tired of the crap that is released. Besides going back to DDO occasionally (sub), I haven't played a game full time since I think CO and that grew tiresome fast. I did play SWTOR for a month or so with friends. It was ok fun, but damn, thats all they could do with SW IP. I just want something engaging, challenging with long-term play. Hopefully EQN (even with some flaws, or things I dont like-CS, gfx) will have the mechanics for community and challenging gameplay.
You people who are ragging on others who bought a founders pack and state that that those people are "ignorant" and "foolish" for spending money while yourself will be playing for free, should probably be best served by shutting up. Its people like the ones that pay for the founder packs that make F2P games possible. If nobody is willing to spend money on these games they wont exists.
I find it funny how people think companies can spend millions of dollars on developing a game and then maintain/update that game without any revenue. People need to think about what they are arguing about before they get what they wish for........
Its fine, no worries. People and video games sometimes need to be "bashed" (tactful criticism mind you), And even as a fan boy of EQN i won't be afraid to criticize it if it flops.
And its not P2P that are the bane of this world either! MMOs and games in general have been coming out buggy as of late no matter what payment system they have been with. It is really dissapointing that there is not extra effort to high a third person party to put the game through some grinds (not just alpha/beta testers).
Whether a MMO is P2P, B2P or F2P; I dont care the payment system as long as its not P2W. All these systems work fine: FFXIV:ARR, GW2, PS2 as examples. Any game that attracts my interest will soon see my money being flung at it so I can atleast try it out. A good mmo will have a good community and if its your type of mmo then youll enjoy it that much more and be willing to pay whatever to play it.
And like you said at the end, here is to hoping.
While I don't disagree with the idea that user created content in Landmark may end up in EQN. For some people its not just about paying for item boosts.
Take myself for example. I bought the trail blazer to support the company because I like the direction they are taking. Also to get early access so I can start playing a game I am really interested in.
Did you know its F2P? Since it is F2P and 100 bucks to a P2P game is more like, $60 for the game and 2 1/2 months of subscription fees (at $15 bucks a month). I am willing to part with some cash for it. And the game won't be out from alpha probably for a good 4 months atleast, so I feel I am getting my money's worth.
Also you could potentially earn your money back with Player Studio. If you are creative enough and users buy your, well, creations; you could maybe make a small profit for yourself. So early access for some founders could be to get ahead in the creative market place of Landmark and get use to the tools early.
Heck, some people just want a better builder then Minecraft and want to jump in and have fun already.
I think this type of collaboration with the community will make a better EQN in the long run anyhow. Think of the countless hours some people will spend creating high quality builds that could be used in EQN, better then some of the designers themselves I am sure. My example is Minecraft and its modding community (its HUGE!!!).
Hope this was informative and seems less ridiculous to ya now.
Yeah it's going to be a pure F2P game which from your last paragrph seems to be your choice of pricing model , that's all fine and dandy. Considering over 1 million people log in to SWTOR per month then I think some of those people would disagree with you that SWTOR's freemium model sucks , obviously not all those 1 million plus people are subbs.
All it boils down to is the fact I would rather pay $60 on four months of SWTOR play time other than getting into an Alpha for an unfinished game.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
personally i think of the EQNL founder pack as a Collectors edition w early access
Blizzard charged $150.00 for collectors edition of StarCraft 2 / Diablo 3
you could make the same statement - why spend extra when cash can be spent more effectively?
EQ2 fan sites
Which founder pack the $60 and/or $100 ? The $20 one is for beta only. I see your point yes $150 is a lot to spend on a collectors edition , but still they probably got a box and map and keyring or t-shirt or something ? So yeah EQNL's two expensive founder packs are like a digital collectors edition , yeah I can roll with that , requires a lot less room in the home to store it too , well infinitely less room. Still seems a bit odd a collectors edition of a F2P game , does anyone know if the actual release will have a box and if it's free ? We might not have all that information yet though.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
The 20.00 pack is unlimited closed beta as opposed to the seven day codes that will be given out during the closed beta period. You'll also get an in game+forum title, in game flag and the "Founder's Pickaxe".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoZYWjBbxi0
(0:30 - 1:10)
I see your point about having to pay for a "CE" of a F2P MMO but what is being offered is really useful to people interested in LM, outside alpha/beta access.
Here is why I think spending $100 on getting a spot in EQN:L is not a big deal for me:
1. I will be getting a head start on the tools being used to build the EQN game. Right now EQN:L is the building tools, but they did mention that all the tools will be added in. Maybe there will be the ability to add other NPCs at your house/town/guild hall/ ... Hopefully when EQN:L launches I will already have a dozen or so templates in the vault waiting to submit to SoE to sell in the marketplace for when EQN launches. The more templates you are able to submit the better chance of getting something sold on the marketplace.
2. As others have mentioned, you indirectly get to help SoE refine the world building tools that are being used in EQN. The more Modders and other Players harden the tools the better EQN might become.
3. The Modding community is great and I expect that the ones who work on EQN:L will be equally as great. I would not be surprised to see novice and professional modders forming an awesome alpha/beta testing community. There will be much help and pie for all.
4. Consistency - the longer a beta team communicates/ works on things together the better the testing is.
So to me spending $100 does not seem like a big burden to me as it is a chance for me to help harden the tools that are being used to make the content in EQN, as well as hopefully join a great community of modders/testers in EQN:L that could carry over in the EQN. I mean ask yourself how great some of the other games could have been if the modding community had a chance to bang on the dev tools prior to that games launch. I know for sure that the last two Elder Scrolls games would have been much more enjoyable at release. Does anyone play an un-modified version of Skyrim?
Well, an update. Seems they won't accept their own currency (station cash) for founder's packs because... well, I don't know. They couldn't give me a reason as to why not; they just don't accept it, period. Cash up front or GTFO.
Obviously, this means I'll not be giving them one dime out of my pocket for the forseeable future.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
the only game that seems to still support SC is DCUO DLC packs
SOE discontinued using Station Cash for expansions a year ago
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/11/soe-to-stop-offering-expansions-for-station-cash-offers-50-off/
I'm not sure if SOE ever allowed using SC to buy a game (beyond EQ1 / EQ2 )
EQ2 fan sites