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F2P is not F2P
richarddoyle
Member UncommonPosts: 84
I don't know about everyone else, but one of my major pet peeves is becoming the fact that so many people refer to Free to Play as Free to Play.
Why? Because it isn't FREE. Not that I expect it to be, but P2P players are constantly using this misconception as an excuse to bash F2P players. "Nothing in life is free, stop being a cheapskate and pay a sub you freeloaders!" How many times I have heard this, and it's completely ridiculous.
Personally I believe we should put an end to this farce and begin, collectively, to refer to F2P as M2P, and P2P as S2P. Microtransactions to Play and Subscription to Play, respectively. People who are serious M2P players are going to pay money, they're just going about it in a different way. Many M2P players will actually pay MORE than those who pay a subscription.
Ironically, many S2P players do know this. I've seen people, in the same argument mind you, make the argument that M2P is bad because of freeloaders, and it is bad because it costs too much. Wait... what? Make up your mind, is M2P more or less expensive than S2P? You feel a sense of superiority paying $15/mo, over those who try to play for free, but you don't like the idea that someone who pays $50 a month is inevitably going to surpass you in an M2P game? I don't really understand this mentality.
Don't get me wrong, I don't really support one model over the other, but I get tired of S2P players blatantly ignoring the fact that M2P isn't F2P. I also don't believe M2P should be written off as a bad model when properly executed. S2P players tend to conveniently overlook the fact that many S2P games are actually S+M2P. No, I'm not talking about bondage. They are actually Subscription + Microtransactions to Play. If I pay a subscription, I expect to get all content (save for boxed expansion) as part of that. Otherwise, what am I paying for? Just to play a game I already bought? It's ludicrous.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Referring to the models as P2P and F2P is outdated.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
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Comments
Your thread title would be right if it was, "Free To Play is not Free". "Free To Play" has a meaning, and that meaning is, "Some of the content is free, almost always the opening or 'install' content of the game. Other content in the game is not free."
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
My point is that calling "Free to Play" MMOs "Free to Play" is incorrect as it's an inaccurate description that just allows some players to bash it for reasons that make no sense.
What you actually just did there was repeat my point. "Free to Play" should not mean "You can play a trial of the game for free." It should mean "The game is free to play."
You just agreed with me that the F2P is not really free, there for "Free" should not be included in the description of its model unless you want to say, "Free to Try, Microtransaction to Play" or "F2T,M2P"
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
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Free to play does not mean everything is free. Buy to play doesn't either. Buy to play and pay for a sub doesn't either though. Cash shops are seen in all 3 payment models now.
Before you buy anything you really need to look at what the in game cash shop is.
The only time I've felt ripped off by a game is when I had to buy to play it and then also pay a monthly fee every single time I wanted to try it again. It is why I and many others have given up on that payment method. If I want to check out what is going on with WoW I have to buy the expansions I missed or at the very least pay $15 just to see what has changed, that is a ripoff. I already bought the game, I already payed $15 a month for years and bought multiple expansions. (Yeah I get that I can play the first 20 levels for free so WoW isn't the best example these days)
As to your OP that is still wrong too. I can pick up Rift as an example and play the entire game for free, I never have to spend a single penny. It is like someone handing out free tacos and you complaining that they are charging for burritos.
The F2P has generally been interpreted by the developers and publishers as a form of 'No cost of entry'. And almost every title that bills itself as F2P essentially has no associated costs to download and install the game, create an account, create a character, and play some core portion of the game. It is generally considered permissible to monetize some content (expansions), storage (personal and bank inventory), specialized races or classes. Then there's always cosmetic items and expendable items that can be purchased. And even the earliest subscription-only games attached additional costs to specific services (name change, server transfer, etc.)
I don't think the OP's M2P and S2P terms are really needed. It's only more opportunity to confuse people.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
What you actually just did there was repeat my point. "Free to Play" should not mean "You can play a trial of the game for free." It should mean "The game is free to play."
You just agreed with me that the F2P is not really free, there for "Free" should not be included in the description of its model unless you want to say, "Free to Try, Microtransaction to Play" or "F2T,M2P"
No, what you are doing is pretending that calling a game "Free To Play" is the same thing as calling a game "Free" and this is not the case. Maybe when the very first "Free To Play" game came out there was some confusion about what was going on, but it's been years since that first game came out. Everyone knows what the term "Free To Play" means. You're trying to make an issue where none exists.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
EQ2 fan sites
There are definitely horrible implementations of F2P. It would be strange if there weren't bad implementations. On the other hand, there are implementations that seem to meet with a lot of consumer approval. LoTR's implementation and now that they've adjusted things a bit, SWToR's implementation both seem to be very accepted by at least hundreds of thousands of players. Why wouldn't they? Those players have an ongoing game experience that they don't have to play for.
On the other hand, there are games like Requiem where leveling becomes impossible without resorting to leveling potions in the cash shop. There is no ongoing experience in the game because the main activity in the game cannot be achieved without leveling potions.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Free to play just means you can play for free. They are not play EVERYTHING for free, then they wouldn't make money.
If you can log in and experience ANY gameplay for free, then you are playing for free. It really is that simple. You are playing a video game for free.
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I agree 100%. It is not a matter of which way you prefer to PAY. It is more a matter of being HONEST as to what the PAY model actually is. Free to play is not free. It is however how game companies wish the weak minded to think as a means of getting more people in their doors. They, the game companies, think that if you are inside their game you will at some point start PAYING. Those same game companies then WITHOLD certain game features or content....even the most trivial of content...hoping that the unwary will drop cash on those digital dig joint trinkets. So, yes, let us be honest and call these what they are and not what the game companies want us to believe.
Let's party like it is 1863!
You are going to have to make a better argument then that. What trips up you statement is that when you use the term "free" in the same sentence describing free to play with the term "money" you are arguing against your own argument.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Yet there are plenty of people who play these games and never pay a penny. The majority of people who play F2P games do play them entirely free of charge. Thus, they really are free to play, so long as you're not a competitive twit that has to keep up with the Joneses.
That's the secret.
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In that case, why do I still see people accusing F2P players as cheapskates who only play F2P because they want everything for free?
This was my original point. If you're telling me you've never seen anyone make this argument against F2P then you apparently don't look around the forums very often.
Is that a fact or is that just your opinion?
Sure there are plenty of people who will do everything in their power to get around paying anything, but it doesn't seem to me like those people stay for very long. Personally when I play a F2P, I will dabble with it for free for a while, but as soon as I get anywhere I start buying from the shop. Though I prefer to buy cosmetic items and such rather than items to be competitive.
But admittedly I don't have any hard numbers to back my word up either.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I would agree with you entirely, OP, if it wasn't for the game Rift.
In my opinion, they are the greatest example of a true Free To Play..
They have micro-transactions, of course, but by no means do you need them to play the game.
You can progress the the whole game without ever making one micro-transaction, honestly.
And you really won't notice any negative effects, as (in my opinion) there are none.
MAYBE more bag space would be nice, but with the Rift Store you never have to go to a shop-keeper to sell things, so bag space really never is an issue.
Show me a company that isn't making games to earn money, and I'll show you a game that has no support or updates.
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Google a bit and you can find plenty of numbers out there on it, as it's been pretty consistent numbers for a few years now. Many links have been posted around here, too. Approx 80% or more of most F2P players never pay anything.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This was my original point. If you're telling me you've never seen anyone make this argument against F2P then you apparently don't look around the forums very often.
I don't know why you see people calling each other cheapskates. Some people are rude? That doesn't change the fact that people know what "Free To Play" means, and that games with some free content and some not free content are "Free To Play" games.
What is your argument again? That people use words in a way that you don't like? Is it that "Free To Play" games aren't 100% free? Is it because there are millions of people playing these games, and those aren't the kind of games you like and you're getting left out in the cold?
No, your real issue is that you've found something you don't like, and you can't even properly explain why you don't like it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'd rather not start an argument based on the fact that you're misunderstanding me, so I will try to state this more clearly.
My issue is with the fact that there are people suggesting that those who play F2P games are too cheap to pay to support the game they play. While it is true there are those who try to play for free, there are F2P who do pay just as much as those playing subscription games.
The link to the whole F2P vs M2P is because I believe that calling a game "Free to Play" versus calling a game "Pay to Play" gives people the impression that there aren't any F2P players paying anything because the game is "Free" while P2P players are the only ones who "Pay"
Also, don't your arguments sound just a bit strange? "Free to Play is not the same as free to play." You can't have something that is both free and not free. It is either free or it isn't, you can't say some parts of the game are free and some cost money and then call the whole game free to play. Why not cal it PF2P, Partially Free to Play?
That's why I was saying it's a "pet peeve" of mine. I'm aware that they do know how F2P works but I don't like that they conveniently ignore it so that they can make arguments against the F2P model.
My feeling is that naming it "Free to Play" just brings a negative connotation with it while "Pay to Play" somehow makes it more "elite" in people's eyes. While I do believe that people are consciously aware that F2P is not free, I think that it subconsciously has the effect of making people react negatively to those who play such games because they automatically assume it's because you're cheap. When in reality it seems rather unwise to pay a flat fee for each month when there is no possible way you will always get the same value each month for that $15 fee.
If this is true then it is pretty depressing to consider.
I've seen some articles suggesting 40% of F2P players pay, but of course as it's been said that might just be a single purchase at some point, not 40% are paying in the same game. They just did pay for something in some F2P game at some point in their lives.
At least that's what I'm getting from it.
Either way, it's unfortunate that the model is abused when it could be a good alternative to P2P.
Personally I prefer B2P with microtransactions, that way even if I don't spend much later in a cash shop I do feel I've contributed to the game.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None
Oh. Well, it looks like I did completely misunderstand your first post, or at least the point at which it started. My apologies.
The terms used are not the problem. People know what "Free To Play" means. People know what "Pay To Play" means. The only way the terms could be causing any sort of issue is if people did not know what the terms meant.
The problem is that there are people who do not like what other people are doing. This is normal. Adding new terms to describe what people are doing would just give people more words to use when they want to say, "I don't like what you are doing." It would be unlikely to create more or fewer people who don't like what other people are doing.
**
The arguments aren't strange because people know what all this stuff means. I can say the words, "Free To Play" and people will know what I am talking about.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Why do you feel that it is being abused and not that the business model is designed that way?
Also, if you take a step back and look at it objectively, you'll realize that "B2P with microtransaction" is "F2P with box fee" which makes it interesting that you would favor that one.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
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F2P is F2P, why wouldn't it be? You can play, as in you don't need to buy the game up front and you don't need an active subscription. That doesn't mean that you can't spend money on a game as every game will at least try to make some money out of their effort to make the game. There are just a lot of unfair cash shops out there, so don't get sucked in too deep with those and look for the signs. Play as long as you enjoy the game, pay some if you feel it's worth it and will enhance your enjoyment of the game. If not, don't pay if it's not worth it or don't play if you no longer enjoy doing so.
Only part of the game is usually totally free to play, so you can still get a feel for the game without needing to even pay for the box.
millions play F2P titles without spending money. I think the huge misconception is that there are a certain segment of the gaming population that must have everything and access to all things in a game. This is such a small portion of the population that "needs" to buy those micro-transactions to compete in the games content. I suspect based on your words you are one of those players. There are some of us who could care less in getting the best gear or clear the toughest content and as such not paying for something is perfectly approachable. My recommendation to you and others like you is to stick with subscription games if paying for micro-transactions is not your thing.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Well, because I think that each player should take contribute SOMETHING to the game they play. It's one thing to not think every month of play is worth $15, but it's something else to basically say that it's worthless and not pay anything into the game.
And yes, I realize that the industry is aware that a lot of people will pay for free, and they are simply relying on those players who pay more to make up for it. Ideally though everyone would contribute a minimum fair share.
As for the fact that I like "F2P with box fee" is because I like to feel like I've made a fair contribution to the games I play. I think paying a $40 to $60 box fee is a fair contribution considering I'm a fairly casual player. Then I might pick some other things up later from the cash shop. But I don't want to play a game without ever contributing to its well-being.
Technically, yes. You could say that logging in, running around in a circle, and then logging off and never logging in again is playing. But I typically think of playing as in... actually progressing in the game.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None