Sounds like gw2 weapon system with more options and leveling. LoTRO group attacks but more simple. Then Neverwinter with ultimate. Sounds interesting enough but still wonder how it will play out. Wonder how balance will be. Sure there will be amazing builds then medicore ones. Still could be fun for while but p2p thing is bugging me bit when tons free games these days.
I wonder why they went with locking a handful of skills behind classes if the rest of them can all be unlocked with time. I am guessing that those class skills will be the most defining characteristics of your toon and everything else will be much more secondary. For instance a person who picks ranged caster class will never be a top tier tank or vis versa because the key skills needed to do that job will be locked in the class.
Just a guess on my part. Still it looks much more like a Elder Scrolls game than the videos I saw earlier in the year so if nothing else it does seem like they have been listening to people who want a Elder Scrolls MMO and not WoW with a Elder Scrolls skin.
All weapons and armors are shared skill lines. You get a racial and a bunch of "world, guilds and AvA" skill lines too (some are mutually exclusive like the Vampire vs Werewolf ones). The class skill lines are the minority of everything you will be able to unlock and you can still only have 12 skills in combat (with weapon switching, 6 for each weapon set). Just look at the video above to see how many skills are per line and make the math.
Most players will end up running around with skills that aren't related to their classes.
^^ This
If you want to be a tank, you can go with building class skills. But you can also go with the S&B, Heavy armor and Fighters guild skill lines. Work on building those skills with the active and passive, and you can be a tank with any class. Same for a Mage. Grab a destruction staff, light armor and join the Mages guild.
It would be easier to start with the class and type of character you want to be. But I think with enough skill points, any class can be a top of the line in any of the trinity. Will have to wait and see, but with the limited number of skills as above, it can and will be done.
One question I had was whether or not you could build a character to tank, but use level up light armor and a weapon other then sword and shield to say, use more dodging. Could you still be effective? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I still don't know a ton about this game. What I saw when I played was enough to make me come back already though. Sadly, I didn't get a ton of time with in in the weekend.
I am sure this will be possible, but you probably mean "medium" armor, since that's what they call the leather/glass tier of armor in ESO rather than "light" (which is really just cloth.)
Between the evasive bonuses in Medium Armor, blocking with weapons, and any class, guild, and AvA skills geared toward defense, I am sure you could focus your skill gains on those and effectively tank thusly. Whether or not it will be as effective as a heavy tank for intense PvE is questionable, erring on the side of probably not.
Originally posted by Tierless Sounds ok. Any word on that thing that defines TES games, you know, the open sandboxy game world? No one seems to want to talk about the world itself which as a TES fan is a fairly big selling point for me.
I have heard that the world looks and feels like TES. That said it is hard for me to imagine that being the case. I am sure they can pull off making the graphics feeling similar. What I have a hard time believing is though, let's say I am exploring a dungeon out in the world by myself sneaking across the room towards a chest my heart pounding hoping to remain hidden from the vampires walking about. Then in runs 5 guys, pew pew pew, telling anal jokes in chat and killing the vampires, and one of them runs up and grab that chest. That moment will feel very different than the feeling you would get in a TES game.
The issue you seem to have in the example you provided has nothing to do with how open or "sandboxy" the world is but with the simple fact that it is an MMO with, well, other players. The world can be just as open and freely explorable as other ES games, but I'm not sure that would make any difference to you if it's just the other players running around that bothers you.
I don't know if enough people realize how much weight your initial class choice carries.
For instance, at 1:25 in the video, choosing the Nightblade class means that the character is forever locked into the Assasination, Shadow, and Siphoning skill lines.
That's an absolutely HUGE choice to make in character creation, before even setting foot in Tamriel. How can so many important abilities be entirely class-based right from the start?
You can see why CLASS-based progression has been a major source of contention in ESO, especially since Elder Scrolls is all about freedom to develop your character in any way you choose.
I don't know if enough people realize how much weight your initial class choice carries.
For instance, at 1:25 in the video, choosing the Nightblade class means that the character is forever locked into the Assasination, Shadow, and Siphoning skill lines.
That's an absolutely HUGE choice to make in character creation, before even setting foot in Tamriel. How can so many important abilities be entirely class-based right from the start?
You can see why CLASS-based progression has been a major source of contention in ESO, especially since Elder Scrolls is all about freedom to develop your character in any way you choose.
In an MMO, you absolutely must provide replayability in the form of incentive to level new characters (or jobs, in the case of games like the Final Fantasy MMOs). This isn't just an ES game, it's also an MMO. Just as you think people don't realize how "HUGE" of a choice the class is, I don't think you realize how relatively small a choice this is compared to most MMOs. Your class choice will essentially account for 20-30% of your character's total abilities, which is about 70-80% less than the standard MMO.
As it stands, I think the class choice in ESO is fairly well balanced between the ES 'every character can obtain everything' and the MMO 'each class is completely distinct' mentalities.
I don't know if enough people realize how much weight your initial class choice carries.
For instance, at 1:25 in the video, choosing the Nightblade class means that the character is forever locked into the Assasination, Shadow, and Siphoning skill lines.
That's an absolutely HUGE choice to make in character creation, before even setting foot in Tamriel. How can so many important abilities be entirely class-based right from the start?
You can see why CLASS-based progression has been a major source of contention in ESO, especially since Elder Scrolls is all about freedom to develop your character in any way you choose.
In an MMO, you absolutely must provide replayability in the form of incentive to level new characters (or jobs, in the case of games like the Final Fantasy MMOs). This isn't just an ES game, it's also an MMO. Just as you think people don't realize how "HUGE" of a choice the class is, I don't think you realize how relatively small a choice this is compared to most MMOs. Your class choice will essentially account for 20-30% of your character's total abilities, which is about 70-80% less than the standard MMO.
As it stands, I think the class choice in ESO is fairly well balanced between the ES 'every character can obtain everything' and the MMO 'each class is completely distinct' mentalities.
I very much agree with you. Providing a kind of "hub" from which you can specialize via the wealth of universal skills potentially has two benefits in a MMO ES game.
1) It promotes at least some interdependency between character types while leaving the majority of your skill progression open ended to allow for diverse builds. This differentiation, while more subtle than in most class-based MMORPGs, is very useful when trying to encourage teamwork in a social game.
2) It provides an identity of sorts to skill sets, making choice matter in a game where you are not the main hero. Everyone won't be the master of everything, and gaining an understanding of what the class skills offer could help generate ways to read battlefields regarding allies and enemies alike, ala DAoC.
The flexibility offered seems great, and walks the line admirably on paper. To be honest I am surprised they have designed a model that so well combines ES-inspired progression with a DAoC-esque RvR class mechanic, again "on paper."
Once again happily surprised by the design of a game I was honestly ready to write off. This progression system sounds fantastic. I pray it plays as well as it promises
I don't know if enough people realize how much weight your initial class choice carries.
For instance, at 1:25 in the video, choosing the Nightblade class means that the character is forever locked into the Assasination, Shadow, and Siphoning skill lines.
That's an absolutely HUGE choice to make in character creation, before even setting foot in Tamriel. How can so many important abilities be entirely class-based right from the start?
You can see why CLASS-based progression has been a major source of contention in ESO, especially since Elder Scrolls is all about freedom to develop your character in any way you choose.
not really, and actually , its kinda nice in a way to have people once again sit and think a sec before making a choice.
why? prevents disposable builds, promotes thinking about progression, and replayability.
Originally posted by Rastan1 It doesn't matter how many skill lines they give you if you can only use 5 things then you have 5 things. Very shallow combat system.
Exactly and they are all grouped similar to GW2 as well so its really the illusion of choice. Passive and actives just like GW2 you even quest for them like GW2 and so far it looks a bit like GW2 even with the Ultimates, which are like GW2 and Neverwinter, Since GW2 combat is trash to say the least this article and video have only validated my concerns over this games combat, PVP is going to be intolerably boring.
Originally posted by Rastan1 It doesn't matter how many skill lines they give you if you can only use 5 things then you have 5 things. Very shallow combat system.
It's not 5 though
You have 5 normal ability slots then another 5 with weapon swap, 2 ultimate slots, 2 are tied to your left mouse button, block tied to your right, interrupt is hold block tap left mouse button, cc break is tap both mouse buttons, dodge is double tap a direction, stealth is ctrl, synergy is assigned to "x" and potions are assigned to another button (I think they said "r" but not 100%).
5 slots does NOT mean you will only have 5 things to do, a lot of the abilities normally tied to your action bar in most mmo's are actually just part of the control scheme as a whole
Was going to respond, but I see there is one already. So i'll add (addressing the original) that you don't really think you should have access to bow attacks and a healing staff when wielding a sword and shield do you?
Originally posted by Rastan1 It doesn't matter how many skill lines they give you if you can only use 5 things then you have 5 things. Very shallow combat system.
Exactly and they are all grouped similar to GW2 as well so its really the illusion of choice. Passive and actives just like GW2 you even quest for them like GW2 and so far it looks a bit like GW2 even with the Ultimates, which are like GW2 and Neverwinter, Since GW2 combat is trash to say the least this article and video have only validated my concerns over this games combat, PVP is going to be intolerably boring.
First sentence and forward is wrong. Class specific skills are not linked to weapon yielding ala GW2. So you can have a 2 handed melee, sword and shield, or dual yield and still cast distant spells or whatever else you want!
Not wanting to be negative just for the sake of being negative but really... nothing knew in this game. Levels, no character persistence while offline, grind tastic gameplay, same old guild system that makes no sense witihn the context of the in-game lore/society, no meaningful passage of time because of character immortality, regular crafting/harvesting (doesn't matter how many steps you input it is still watching a bar progress).
Don't get why anyone gets excited by these "new" MMOs. There is hardly anything new in any of them. Just the same old with a fresh coat of paint a maybe a gimmicky tweak or two.
i just HOPING there's enough here in the customization/skilll progression and cryodill pvp. I see possibility here. You are right though in everything you said.
The many different ways you can build your character is amazing. Anyone comparing this to GW2 is ignorant as even though I liked that game, I never felt any different at higher levels than I did once I basically unlocked almost everything at lower levels. There was never any sense of character progression. It is similar in that they are limiting the action bar which to me is a good thing. So sick of games like TOR, Rift, etc where you have way to many meaningless abilities littering the screen of way too many action bars. I hate the clutter.
As far as respec, don't know why anyone thinks this is important since you can work on just about any ability to morph your playstyle into something different at any time throughout the game..it just takes a little more time to work those skills..which to me is a good thing.
I think the graphics technically and artistically have improved drastically and since Im not into the childish graphics of Wildstar with their exaggerated animations and out of proportion toons, this is exactly the look I was hoping for. I don't want Sonic the Hedgehog graphics, I want more mid evil style realism to some degree...not super realistic but just in that direction.
My only concern is that the exploration we are accustomed to in the single player games will be so crippled by the leveled zones that it won't feel like true exploration. I guess time will tell. If the higher level zones are big enough, maybe it wont matter. 6 months or so Zenimax to get it right, so don't release the game until you do :-)
Originally posted by Rastan1 It doesn't matter how many skill lines they give you if you can only use 5 things then you have 5 things. Very shallow combat system.
Exactly and they are all grouped similar to GW2 as well so its really the illusion of choice. Passive and actives just like GW2 you even quest for them like GW2 and so far it looks a bit like GW2 even with the Ultimates, which are like GW2 and Neverwinter, Since GW2 combat is trash to say the least this article and video have only validated my concerns over this games combat, PVP is going to be intolerably boring.
First sentence and forward is wrong. Class specific skills are not linked to weapon yielding ala GW2. So you can have a 2 handed melee, sword and shield, or dual yield and still cast distant spells or whatever else you want!
I was not referring to weapon linking you were. I was saying the class skills in general are similar, not an exact copy. As anyone can clearly see in the video.
This sounds partly interesting and I like the skill lines, but they make an old mistake imo. Obtaining skill points should not be from exploring specific places and completing quests. This just leads to another guide that a lot of players will follow to the letter to get as many skill points as possible.
One of the reasons why Skyrim feels like a sandbox, is because character progression is not tied to specific questslines or exploring. But your character develops purely from using skills (which makes you level at some point and give you a skillpoint). The important point is that it is handled seperately from the content in the game.
Also, exploration should be spontanious and not about following a carrot for the next skillpoint. The moment devs start promoting incentives like these (or achievement bars, ugh) for exploration, it just makes me wonder if the world is that boring that these incentives are needed.
Anyway, putting skill points in specific quest rewards and locations destroys replayability. On their next toon, players will feel the need to follow the same trail.
(edit : why do white lines get ignored when you post your comment directly below the article? )
Comments
I am sure this will be possible, but you probably mean "medium" armor, since that's what they call the leather/glass tier of armor in ESO rather than "light" (which is really just cloth.)
Between the evasive bonuses in Medium Armor, blocking with weapons, and any class, guild, and AvA skills geared toward defense, I am sure you could focus your skill gains on those and effectively tank thusly. Whether or not it will be as effective as a heavy tank for intense PvE is questionable, erring on the side of probably not.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Hate the fact that I have to pvp in this game. Damn shame.
Love everything else they've put out about it and enjoy Skyrim - can't wait.
No bitchers.
The issue you seem to have in the example you provided has nothing to do with how open or "sandboxy" the world is but with the simple fact that it is an MMO with, well, other players. The world can be just as open and freely explorable as other ES games, but I'm not sure that would make any difference to you if it's just the other players running around that bothers you.
I don't know if enough people realize how much weight your initial class choice carries.
For instance, at 1:25 in the video, choosing the Nightblade class means that the character is forever locked into the Assasination, Shadow, and Siphoning skill lines.
That's an absolutely HUGE choice to make in character creation, before even setting foot in Tamriel. How can so many important abilities be entirely class-based right from the start?
You can see why CLASS-based progression has been a major source of contention in ESO, especially since Elder Scrolls is all about freedom to develop your character in any way you choose.
In an MMO, you absolutely must provide replayability in the form of incentive to level new characters (or jobs, in the case of games like the Final Fantasy MMOs). This isn't just an ES game, it's also an MMO. Just as you think people don't realize how "HUGE" of a choice the class is, I don't think you realize how relatively small a choice this is compared to most MMOs. Your class choice will essentially account for 20-30% of your character's total abilities, which is about 70-80% less than the standard MMO.
As it stands, I think the class choice in ESO is fairly well balanced between the ES 'every character can obtain everything' and the MMO 'each class is completely distinct' mentalities.
But you don't have to pvp?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I very much agree with you. Providing a kind of "hub" from which you can specialize via the wealth of universal skills potentially has two benefits in a MMO ES game.
1) It promotes at least some interdependency between character types while leaving the majority of your skill progression open ended to allow for diverse builds. This differentiation, while more subtle than in most class-based MMORPGs, is very useful when trying to encourage teamwork in a social game.
2) It provides an identity of sorts to skill sets, making choice matter in a game where you are not the main hero. Everyone won't be the master of everything, and gaining an understanding of what the class skills offer could help generate ways to read battlefields regarding allies and enemies alike, ala DAoC.
The flexibility offered seems great, and walks the line admirably on paper. To be honest I am surprised they have designed a model that so well combines ES-inspired progression with a DAoC-esque RvR class mechanic, again "on paper."
Once again happily surprised by the design of a game I was honestly ready to write off. This progression system sounds fantastic. I pray it plays as well as it promises
GG Zeni!
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
not really, and actually , its kinda nice in a way to have people once again sit and think a sec before making a choice.
why? prevents disposable builds, promotes thinking about progression, and replayability.
looks good for sure
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Looking freaking good.. Pleasantly surprised - A bonus for lowering my expectations of it months ago.
Wish I wasn't so busy, I might take notice when the server is up and make it into the game. If I was in beta I mean.
Haven't been gaming at all for a couple of months. And I've totally neglected these forums. Sorry, I know you all miss me..
Exactly and they are all grouped similar to GW2 as well so its really the illusion of choice. Passive and actives just like GW2 you even quest for them like GW2 and so far it looks a bit like GW2 even with the Ultimates, which are like GW2 and Neverwinter, Since GW2 combat is trash to say the least this article and video have only validated my concerns over this games combat, PVP is going to be intolerably boring.
Was going to respond, but I see there is one already. So i'll add (addressing the original) that you don't really think you should have access to bow attacks and a healing staff when wielding a sword and shield do you?
First sentence and forward is wrong. Class specific skills are not linked to weapon yielding ala GW2. So you can have a 2 handed melee, sword and shield, or dual yield and still cast distant spells or whatever else you want!
i just HOPING there's enough here in the customization/skilll progression and cryodill pvp. I see possibility here. You are right though in everything you said.
The many different ways you can build your character is amazing. Anyone comparing this to GW2 is ignorant as even though I liked that game, I never felt any different at higher levels than I did once I basically unlocked almost everything at lower levels. There was never any sense of character progression. It is similar in that they are limiting the action bar which to me is a good thing. So sick of games like TOR, Rift, etc where you have way to many meaningless abilities littering the screen of way too many action bars. I hate the clutter.
As far as respec, don't know why anyone thinks this is important since you can work on just about any ability to morph your playstyle into something different at any time throughout the game..it just takes a little more time to work those skills..which to me is a good thing.
I think the graphics technically and artistically have improved drastically and since Im not into the childish graphics of Wildstar with their exaggerated animations and out of proportion toons, this is exactly the look I was hoping for. I don't want Sonic the Hedgehog graphics, I want more mid evil style realism to some degree...not super realistic but just in that direction.
My only concern is that the exploration we are accustomed to in the single player games will be so crippled by the leveled zones that it won't feel like true exploration. I guess time will tell. If the higher level zones are big enough, maybe it wont matter. 6 months or so Zenimax to get it right, so don't release the game until you do :-)
There Is Always Hope!
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
I was not referring to weapon linking you were. I was saying the class skills in general are similar, not an exact copy. As anyone can clearly see in the video.
Seems more you see stuff, you (don't) want to see. They are both fantasy MMOs and yes both have skills. That's it.
For me the article and the video look very promising. Can't wait to see and test it live.
This sounds partly interesting and I like the skill lines, but they make an old mistake imo. Obtaining skill points should not be from exploring specific places and completing quests. This just leads to another guide that a lot of players will follow to the letter to get as many skill points as possible.
One of the reasons why Skyrim feels like a sandbox, is because character progression is not tied to specific questslines or exploring. But your character develops purely from using skills (which makes you level at some point and give you a skillpoint). The important point is that it is handled seperately from the content in the game.
Also, exploration should be spontanious and not about following a carrot for the next skillpoint. The moment devs start promoting incentives like these (or achievement bars, ugh) for exploration, it just makes me wonder if the world is that boring that these incentives are needed.
Anyway, putting skill points in specific quest rewards and locations destroys replayability. On their next toon, players will feel the need to follow the same trail.
Sounds like a nice system... but I foresee a flaw.
People running with skills equiped in bar, but using only 2 actives and raising the rest.
-Oh a chicken! Firebolt, firebolt, slash, slash, slash. Chicken dead.
Oh a cat! Firebolt, firebolt, slash, slash, slash. Cat dead.
You have raised Icestorm to lvl 4
You have raised Leach Life to lvl 3
You have raised swords to lvl 14
You have raised Garotte to lvl 3
You can now follow the Dark Knight skill path.
-Awesomme! More chicken then!
Firebolt, firebolt, slash, slash, slash. Chicken dead.........
The game uses levels. I suspect that you will not be able to raise your skills at mobs much lower lvl then you.