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Skyrim story overrated // Fallout 4 writers
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I think The Witcher 2 beats Skyrim when it comes to story and immersion imo. Yes Skyrim is open world sandbox but it's pretty bland.
I think The Witcher 3 will blow all other open world sandbox rpg's out of the water in 2014.
As for RPG that grab you, Dark Souls also kicks Skyrims ass for immersion imo.
Also Gothic 2 & 3 also kick Skyrims ass imo and they are both sandbox RPG'S.
Skyrim is a great RPG but like George R.R. Martin's: A Song of Ice and Fire saga is totally overrated imo.
Skyrim is a mechanically great RPG. Narratively it is firmly in "meh" territory. Kind of the opposite of the Witcher games, which are narratively great, but mechanically firmly in "meh" territory.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
wait..there is a story in Skyrim?
Sorry I have some 200 hours in that game and I didnt notice.
Why? because I dont care
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
i swear, some of you literally have to be spoon fed rpg.
skyrim has something of a narrative, but its up to you to fill out the story, or adventure of the one who would go on to become the dragonborn.
ive invested a huge amount of time into skyrim, let alone oblivion, and skyrim is fantastic in the story it can tell.
how? you decide the story, then make it happen.
this last time after escaping the dragon carnage at helgen i went straight to riften, entered the thieves guild, have done the main quest line, have replentished the guilds funds, and have become the boss, however, i did become a nightingale , and thus sold my soul in the process, now i don't like that idea, and have decided to do whatever i can to change my fate, and ultimately rule skyrim
i won't hear the call to be dragonborn until i have decided its time, i will amass power and do whatever i want to do till i heed the call, then do what needs to be done.
with mods that give extra areas, and me doing some modding to be able to kill the planar representation of the demigod responcible for my soul shackles, (current project)it will be sweet justice in the end.
dont want to rpg, then skyrim isn't for you.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
like i said, sometimes the best story is the one you make up yourself.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Exactly..
I think that might be the main difference between 'sandbox' and the other games.
Some see a game as a story while others see a game as platform for gamers to create a story by playing it.
D&D is a perfect example, Gaygax first created a game platform which allows players to create their own stories as they played the platform. Later they put out officall playable stories but first was the platform.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
He didn't say Elder Scrolls, he said Skyrim. And if people didn't like Skyrims story then why was it so popular? Because you could mod the hell out of it. Mods change everything and allow players to create anything which makes it a sandbox.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
The gaming industry really should have framed the subject of games much better a long time ago.
Chess is not a story its a platform. True for all games before the computers. Same is ever true for D&D.
Game is the platform, not the story...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Well, games were never about PvP until computers so I guess TESO really does suck afterall since its based on it? Huh?!? You do know that I am calling Skyrim a SANDBOX right? That means the story wasn't important.........
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
1. we are talking about Skyrim not that EOS which is bad for a long list of reasons not just that its mostly pvp.
2. all games before the computer where pvp. Chess is pvp. In fact D&D might have been the first co-op game ever created.
3. Skyrim is more of a sandbox then its not. For many gamers its the story that is important for many other gamers the story doesnt mean anything at all, its the world and game mechanics. I personally think both camps are correct in their perfered way but what I am trying to say is that the game industry should have framed the subject that games are primarly a platform, not a story. Story as a game is somewhat experimental not 'expected'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1. Context.
2. You do know that D&D IS STORY BASED RIGHT? Learn what Irony is......that is what was used against you. Now go look up storyboard games and be amazed at how far back they go......also, D&D the first co-op game?!? You do know that all sports started out as just games right?
3. Do I really need to point out yet AGAIN that I originally said that Skyrim is a sandbox? Who and what are you arguing?
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
D&D is not story based.
D&D is problem solving based. The DM creates a problem, the players try to solve it and use the rules to support whatever answer they come up with.
It could be a dungeon, or a fight, or just a night out in a tavern...but it all comes down to problem solving in group format.
That is what D&D is.
Unless you are talking about Neverwinter, or D&D Online. That is just basic dungeon runs.
Or unless I am talking about the untold number of adventure modules started by Gary Gygax himself with D&D(that's pre AD&D BTW) or the over 400 D&D Novels taken from said modules.
I mean come on, anyone that knows ANYTHING about D&D knows full well that Dragonlance was a fully written setting and even hated by purists because it came with pre-made characters. the world and game campaign was written by Tracy Hickman who is currently penning the story for Shroud of the Avatar.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
again though the stories where an extension of the game engine not the game itself. Additionally part of the game engine itself encouraged others to make their own worlds and stories.
I think for most people D&D is a story telling platform but its not the story in of itself, its a platform for players to create stories. It just so happens that Gygax wanted to create content beyond the game so he started creating worlds as well.
In fact, translated to the computer world the story of a game might be an expansion pack, DLC or Mod but not the game itself.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
adventure modules started to come out more frequently due to the influx of requests to make the game easier to play, you need an imagination remember, and lazy players didn't. One of the best Dungeons I ever ran in , in 10 years of gaming with the same 6 guys was not a module, but the product of one of my friends insane mind, which in itself, would be a kickass mmorpg now that i think about it , hmmm
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
That's not entirely true.
It depends on the DM. ALL my campaigns were story based. All.
I pretty much gutted the D&D rules (per Mr. Gygax's suggestion on making your game your own) and made everything about character and story.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The difference lies in the level of correlation between the storyline and reason for leaving.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I couldn't agree more, apart from Ultima online, SWG and WoW Burning crusade, The recent game I ever played that is very immersive is Fallout 3 (and Space Marine Warhammer 40k), I never had problem with bugs though, but the story... god! the story and the gameplay, I simply adore it, it goes with fallout new vegas, hated the ending since you can't go for free roaming but still the story is amazing. However with Skyrim, love the gameplay, story... not so much, it's really same old same old fantasy game, slay the evil dragon, main story rather short though.
And that my friend why computer game is far superior than consoles.. Mods!
So many people in this thread are offensive when someone says they enjoyed another writer/story than their own.
The taste you have in story telling will be different from someone else. I mean to say ME/DA has a better story then TES is just opinionated garbage, its not fact stop acting like it, and vice versa.
Maybe I feel attacked in this post because I enjoy the TES story quests, yes they can be delivered poorly but the story is backed by so much lore, and to me it seems like a true world with a history which attracts me to the game. I just like that more, like you guys enjoy the deep characters from DA. Its all just opinion.
Sometimes we get so overly critical, we forget why we play games. I play games to have fun. Why do you play games? If we spend all this time being critical over certain aspects, do we miss out on the fun aspect? I am not saying you are and I am not saying you're not, I am merely bringing up a point/question to consider.
The above being said, I played skyrim and I had fun and continue to do so when I play it. I play the game the way I like so I can enjoy it. I'm sure there are elements I love and some I don't like, but in the end I have fun.
You are easily offended. There are ways to objectively evaluate the quality of a story, regardless of taste. As far as I recall, no reviewer, or even any Bethesda spokesperson, has ever even attempted to claim that crafting a strong narrative is something the Elder Scrolls designers excel at.
Story and lore are two different things. The story is what you are participating in, while playing the game. The lore fleshes out the setting, but has absolutely nothing to do with the particular character you are playing. I agree, Bethesda does a more comprehensive job of lore creation than any other company I can think of. That has absolutely no bearing on a discussion of how good the story in a particular game is.
One of the things that distinguish a narrative in a game from a narrative in a movie or book is that games are interactive. With that in mind, even if BioWare/Obsidian/Bethesda all used exactly the same writers, and they put out the exact same quality of writing, the BioWare/Obsidian narratives would still be "better" in the sense that they are more interactive. Bethesda often seems to forget that they are writing a *game* narrative, and as such should be making the narrative itself interactive, not totally static. They generally treat quest narratives as if they were just writing more of their lore books to scatter around the world, instead of crafting content for the player character to participate in.
I mean, come on, there were three mutually exclusive narrative choices in Skyrim. Out of how many hundreds of hours? Seriously, three?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
This ^
It's a sandbox for Christ sakes.
Did the main story once then played 400+ hours of sandbox and can play 400 more and still not done.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Skyrim is only a sandbox if you have the PC version, and use mods. Otherwise, it's just a themepark where the rides are very spread out, and they don't give you a comprehensive map at the information booth.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
also thought it was rather weak...but honestly there havent been that many rpgs with a great story - even some of the old "classics" like baldurs gate dont have such a "fantastic storyline"... You can make up with that by a fantastic and epic open world such as skyrim...but i wished that in the next tes adventure, besides that open world they would also have a fantastic story line with twists and changes etc...i alwas love storyline with that WTF when your forme best friend stabs you in the back...
I think some of the mass effects had a decent story, fallout new vegas was okayish...i also think they storyline doesnt have to be "EPIC" all the time - i dont want to be the super duper giga mega ultra hero, i dont have to be - i think its rather cool if im just another low life who gets drawn into an adventure and gets by with a lot of luck and wit - most of the most epic movies feature "unwilling" heroes that arent that hardcore.
But what i truly wish for - why hasnt there ben an RPG or MMO that is bascially like a mixture of Skyrim and DayZ - what i mean is an RPG/MMO in a fantasy world where you start with nothing, you have to survive, eat, sleep, look fro shelter. But all that in a fantasy world with a great main story, magic, monsters etc.... I also prefer such a world where combat and enemies was more difficult - similar to DayZ or Dark Souls... sure 1 single Goblin doesnt propose such a threat...fighting 3 at the same time - already a problem, even for an experienced fighter (unless your legolas). Fighting something like a 3m Troll - huge problem....
we have 5 bazillion zombie-survival games - but no fantasy survival? That could make a super great sandbox mmo also...