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The perfect death penalty is....
Alasti
Member UncommonPosts: 287
I assume that everyone here would agree that there needs to be some sort of deterrent to dying in a mmorpg...
What is the perfect death penalty?
In my opinion, it is something in the neighborhood of Everquest 1...where death was very serious, and you couldn't really continue without at least "dealing" with the fact that you died....but once it was dealt with, you could continue on your merry way...
What's your perfect death penalty?
Comments
Depends on the game really. For most games I'd say some XP loss and a heavy repair bill. In a game focused around PvP I think it makes sense to have some areas where the winner can take at least something from corpse of the loser (although *not* in the whole game world). Actually I think a game where a mob could be programmed to take and equip some of your stuff and you'd have to fight and kill the mob that killed you before to get it back would be pretty cool but probably hard to program.
It goes without saying that nearly every "modern" MMO has a way too lenient death penalty which discourages careful and cautious play and makes death a trivial minor annoyance rather than something to be feared and avoided at all costs which it should be. It's actually one of the biggest design flaws I see in current generation MMOs.
A long time ago, in a place far far.. well before MMO's really took off anyway, i played a game called Legends of Kesmai, and the death system they used was i think pretty good, reviving from the dead was something of an ordeal in and of itself, especially if you were a PK'er. Basically speaking, if you died too often, i can't remember how many times exactly, or under what circumstances, but the only way back into the land of the living, was to undertake a series of 'quests' in the Underworld, for PK'ers it was even more troubling, as they would have to repeat these quests a number of times in 'atonement'.
Whether this would work in modern MMO's i really do not know, but it might make 'death' a bit more 'interesting'
I play MMOs after i do all the days chores (work, parenting...etc) and that being so I am always tired. And regularly fall asleep while playing.
So most of my deaths are due to doozing off.
This is why I hate death penalties.
That being said...
I think the best penalty is - drop all , and have to do corpse run.
If you can not recover the stuff in set time, your items are fair game for all.
Also, as above mentioned. Some games had segment where upon death you end up in after world (Some NWN servers for example) where you had to complete quests in order to be resurrected.
Depends on the game.
People don't play or leave because of the DP.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Xp loss has never been a major reason for me to avoid death. It never seems that serious. It's usually not even something I notice right away. Perma-death...kinda sucks the fun out of it or makes it stupid fun where I don't ever focus on actually getting good.
Now items loss...That has always worked as brilliant motivation to keep alive for me. Also, item degradation on death. Since items are often the thing used to give you a real sense of reward, loosing them has always been something more regrettable for me. Because, it feels like my previous accolades have been stripped away. And, to get them back (or back to full potential) hurts my in-game wallet. It's just effective enough to make me feel what my characters death. But, not so ruthlessly effective that it takes my fun away.
A game that has a fine balance of item degredation, item loss, and a tad of experience loss tends to work good, as well for me. Though some games are excessive with item and experience loss vs. how much you can expect to die (like dead frontier...the name of the game almost seem to be try to beat the last duration of time you managed to stay alive for.And, the status debuffs on death are really harsh too).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
XP loss in Lineage2 seemed to work very well, at least until the level 70+ when it could cost a days levelling.
I have to admit, I miss L2 in its day, no idea how it is now.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
There is no "one death penalty to fit all". One death penalty fits one game but not the other. That said I am not a fan of punishing the player after death. Instead I am all for resetting the encounter or having an incentive to kill your opponent in PvP. You see in simple capture the flag -scenario, all the death penalty beyond a respawn timer is pointless.
If it was just matter of "players have to deal with death before continuing" a temporary "resurrection sickness" should achieve the same effect as any "tax" on progression (loss of experience or funds).
It is important to remember that only a portion of players get a gambler's rush from a harsh death penalty.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
A DP adds nothing good to the game for me. I don't enjoy zerging something, but I also don't mind dying a few times trying to get something the right way. The fact that you didn't win is enough for me, because it was my motivation for trying it in the first place.
Games that have harsh DPs make me stop wanting to play with people with lower/weaker skill levels because they start costing you too much to play with them. The people you end up with that generally populate the higher skill groups also tend to be people who treat everyone like a tool to get what they want. Neither are all that appealing to me so the game becomes less fun overall.
I agree.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
An interesting idea but the first thing I thought when reading it was "Pay to survive." I can easily see them charging to ensure your worthy to live.
Trying to recover your corpse for an hour is horrible and a waste of time. Or it was an hour of extra entertainment and challenge. It really depends on the mindset you are in going into the game.
Years later you'll only have memories of the experience of harsh DP's.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I agree, one of my favorite things to do in MMO's is try to solo bosses that are supposed to be for a group or higher level than I am at the time. Sadly this means I tend to die a couple times (Sometimes several times lol.) trying to figure out the right strategy. When there is a death penalty it makes this a really difficult past time.
EQ1 and its corpse run.
Death penalty was actually another chance to socialise.
"Any healer in Firiona? need a rezz pls!!!", 90% of the time you would get a rezz so you didn't have to do the corpse run.
Good memories.
2014 majority of gamers if death penealty is harsh, will come EN MASSE to forums scream and whining asking to dumb down the game.
Majority old gamers and new generation won't accept any hardcore they all want easy mode and instant uberness plus all the top gear NOW, and when they have they hop to next mmo this won't change anymore where stuck in ezmode LIMBO STATE.
Only a very small group left that still want hardcore which is so small no developer will make decent games for that small group.
Perfect dont excist.
Timesink and hardcore gameplay is im affraid something of the past.
Most old gamers from the past also don't want hardcore back there sorry excuse is work and family.
Forget it don't kid yourself not gonne happen.
Where stuck with the crap released these days get use to it.
Look @DAMONVILE his reply thats typical for todays state games are in right now and proof hardcore will never comeback its all easy mode and carebear. This kind of gamers will keep screaming to dumbdown games untill its no fun anymore. Its SAD but thats how it is:(
People don't want immersion and realism they want easy cookies and fairytale adventure s with rainbows flowers nice colors and angels.
Im back to solo game where i can mod the game to hardcore lvl i want.
Next solo game and only game im interested in is The Witcher 3!!!
Keep dreaming.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
These are role playing games, and the DP is a role playing tool. It's there for immersion.
My wife and I like to travel to all waterfalls and take screenshots as we jump off. PVe and any kind of immersion makes that more difficult. Let alone the DP when we die from falling.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
PvE mobs can't kill you but give you an out of body experience which involves a lengthy process of finding your body and recovering your loot. Failure to do that in time will leave you with permanant penalties where the most severe case is permanant death
PvPers can choose not to kill you and if they do they have to know what their doing and think long and hard if it's worth the trouble.
If worse comes to worse and you get knocked out or defeated too often by players or monsters lets hope you have someone there to continue the next generation.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Not the games I play.
Look at majority of reply's majority want ezmode, fairytale adventures with rainbows and angels, thats reality of todays gamers, its sad but thats how it is these day's.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
A good thing IMO. PUGs with a combination of serious and apathetic players rarely end well and if they're your real friends you should not care so much or take the time to teach them to play better.
Also a good thing. That should be really difficult. Any game here it isn't difficult to solo an encounter meant for 5 or 6 people is way too easy. If you're doing it for the challenge why not add some extra challenge of a consequence for failure?
There is no "perfect" death penalty. Depends on the game and personal preferences.
Having said that the huge majority of players don't want any death penalty. Just take a look at the most popular MMOs listed on this site for the last year. None of them really has any death penalty at all (GW2, FFXIV, NWO, SWTOR, WOW, TSW etc.). I could go on forever.
There are some games which are not released yet on that list (TESO, EQN, Wildstar) but it's a quite safe bet to assume that those won't have any real death penalty too.
Personally I prefer something like old EQ style death penalty. A death penalty which makes you think about your actions and the consequences before you jumpe into a dungeon. Anyway, we have to take what we get.
As much as I hate perma death the death system in Wizardy Online wasn't bad for me.
When you died you had a percentage on if you will be able to revive with the possibility on offering items you found in dungeons or special items you get from quests to boost your chances. The higher level you were to lower the percentage is BUT still possible to raise from the dead having 2 chances each time.
And something else that made me not hate it was that while there was pvp in towns you had 100% chance to revive if killed in town so there would be no griefing on new people.