Early on, games tended to be either trivial or impossible, with not much space in between. Some games even allowed the user to choose his difficulty setting with the choice of trivial or impossible.
Pretty much this.
I'm older than average for around here, my first console was an Intellivision, I spent my high school years hacking Apple II+ games for kicks and hanging out in arcades with my friends or bf-of-the-moment. Games back then tended to be dead simple, but often either trivially easy or, more commonly, brutally unforgivingl in their gameplay mechanics.
It made sense, really. Gaming back then was severely constrained by the technology of the time and it by-and-large revolved around the arcade where the goal was to get you shove another quarter in the machine and the way to do that was to kill you as quickly as possible without scaring you away.
They weren't trying to give you a challenge, the game mechanics weren't brutal and unforgiving because they thought you could take it, thought that's what you wanted. The mechanics were brutal and punishing -- if simplistic -- because they wanted you to die, they wanted you to fail, because if you didn't you were tying up the machine without having to shove a constant stream of quarters into the slot.
Personally when I was a kid dreaming of what I ultimately wanted in video games the last thing I would have concerned myself with is worrying about whether they'd be easier or harder -- the terms had very little meaning in context. I dreamed of better (maybe even 3D?) graphics, more variety (something arcade games severely lacked), more gameplay options, and, of course, the possibility of not having my progress come to a screeching halt just because I ran out of quarters or it was time to go home.
Personally I don't really get the whole "games are too easy" thing. Sure, I get a bit frustrated at some of it. Yeah, T2s getting nerfed into the ground in Rift pretty much killed the game for me, I miss how BC-era heroics would rip a group to shreds in seconds if they weren't on their game, and I've watched some franchises I used to like become, well, not what I'd call a challenge, but that's only part of the picture. I watch my pre-teen nephews, who all think I'm Aunt Gaming Goddess because they don't yet realize it's mostly a matter of decades of experience they don't yet have, play in various games and I realize that game designers have to ease things back a bit for them. Or my friends, many of whom play games, mostly MMOs or console games, but most of whom aren't interested in putting the kind of time and energy into gaming that it would take to reach the level of what most around here would consider a "real" gamer.
They just want to have fun, they're just as (if not more) willing to throw money at the screen as you and I, and there's way, way, way more of them.
It's not that there aren't plenty of challenges available. People tend to talk about games like WoW as "easy", acting as though leveling is some sort of standard to measure by, as if leveling in any MMO was ever particularly difficult (frustrating, perhaps, but not difficult), and wholly ignoring harder -- in some cases brutally difficult -- content that not only is there, but likely is harder than they themselves could manage. It's the same with consoles and single-player PC games. A lot of it has gotten easier, no doubt, but there's still plenty of challenge to be found if you care to look.
Unfortunately I think a lot of this is nothing more than "Get off my lawn!". A recognition that the gaming market is no longer primarily targeting the hardcore gamer, hasn't been for quite some time, and a lot of gamers, somewhat understandably, resent that. Resent it all you want, it won't change anything. You aren't the primary target market anymore, and that's not going to change. You're a niche, a sufficiently large one that there will likely always be a place for you in gaming, but you aren't, and won't likely ever be again, center stage.
There seems to be a common thought that teenagers and little kids are complete morons who want the most basic and simplistic gameplay there is.
I don't know about you, but I grew up playing NES games which were brutally hard and didn't explain a damn thing to you. I was 4 years old playing the original Final Fantasy and just getting dropped into this big world having to figure it all out. I was about 11 when I played my first MMO (Nexus TK) and 13 or 14 when I played EverQuest 1 and again, I just had to figure these things out. I didn't want my hand held, I didn't complain things took too long. I just wanted to rush home from school so I could play more!
I think people forget what they were actually like when they were kids. Children are naturally curious and want to learn things and figure things out. I am amazed how my little cousins manage to figure out things in Minecraft so quickly without any instructions. They just dive right in and play in this sandbox figuring everything out. And we are talking about 4-7yr olds.
I actually find that as an adult I am far less willing to learn a new game if it doesn't teach me well. I don't want to waste 4 hours of my day just figuring out how to get out of the city or craft a pair of boots. I want to jump in and have fun before I have to go to bed!
That's not to say I don't like deeper experiences at all, I am just far less excited about putting in the effort than I was as a kid.
Don't underestimate kids, the games aren't being dumbed down for them. They're being dumbed down for adults, maybe not the hardcore ones on this site. But the ones who don't want to dedicate their lives to video games anymore.
Maybe you are right at some point
But the fact that games become so easy and hand helded nowadays makes them less attractive.
I wouldn's say that they make games this way in order to attract adults.
My opinion is that they make the game easy and handheld in order to make people as stupid as possible using less and less their brains so as to make more stupid decisions in their lives and spent their money with more stupidity on things that does not deserve a single cent.period
I don't know about you, but I grew up playing NES games which were brutally hard and didn't explain a damn thing to you.
When I was 4 years-old I remember my brother's friend limping into the living room, with his knee cap blown off.
See kids then didn't have video games. The boys were almost all Boy Scouts and had a big fascination in playing war in the woods and building model airplanes and tanks and packing them full of explosives, then lighting them up.
I knew more about a Bazooka at 4 years-old than my letters, because Johnny would bring it out for a show and tell, before the schools would even teach them!
Scene: 1970 America.
Let's keep things in perspective about "brutal". There's a difference between getting a blister for spamming the 1 key, and playing games at the time were the status quo that could maim or kill you. If you couldn't find out what X key did or how to unlock a treasure you could experiment. The kid didn't have a manual, and learned from the school of hardest knocks, that playing with explosives is v-e-r-y dangerous...with manual or not.
It also was the generation that began the video game "revolution" in the 70s when PCs and consoles appeared. They saw both worlds before convenience changed everything.
I don't remember any easy/hard modes in any games from early and late '90s. Sure, there were some hard levels/bosses, but it was fun to run same level again and again for days or week, until you finish it... WTB time machine.
Originally posted by UNATCOII Originally posted by Fendel84MI don't know about you, but I grew up playing NES games which were brutally hard and didn't explain a damn thing to you.
When I was 4 years-old I remember my brother's friend limping into the living room, with his knee cap blown off.
See kids then didn't have video games. The boys were almost all Boy Scouts and had a big fascination in playing war in the woods and building model airplanes and tanks and packing them full of explosives, then lighting them up.
I knew more about a Bazooka at 4 years-old than my letters, because Johnny would bring it out for a show and tell, before the schools would even teach them!
Scene: 1970 America.
Let's keep things in perspective about "brutal". There's a difference between getting a blister for spamming the 1 key, and playing games at the time were the status quo that could maim or kill you. If you couldn't find out what X key did or how to unlock a treasure you could experiment. The kid didn't have a manual, and learned from the school of hardest knocks, that playing with explosives is v-e-r-y dangerous...with manual or not.
It also was the generation that began the video game "revolution" in the 70s when PCs and consoles appeared. They saw both worlds before convenience changed everything.
This brings back memories of almost watching people go up like giant candles because it was fun to burn stuff with gasoline, carrying people home because hitting gravel at fifteen miles and hour hurts and the look of utter horror on my mom's face as I walked into the house with a copperhead. Man, we were stupid. It makes me wonder how many people are becoming teenagers instead of corpses because of video games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The simple answer is no. No i did not like easy games, i brought them back to the shop, getting a new one. Oh well... back then this was still possible ;-)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by Fendel84MI don't know about you, but I grew up playing NES games which were brutally hard and didn't explain a damn thing to you.
When I was 4 years-old I remember my brother's friend limping into the living room, with his knee cap blown off.
See kids then didn't have video games. The boys were almost all Boy Scouts and had a big fascination in playing war in the woods and building model airplanes and tanks and packing them full of explosives, then lighting them up.
I knew more about a Bazooka at 4 years-old than my letters, because Johnny would bring it out for a show and tell, before the schools would even teach them!
Scene: 1970 America.
Let's keep things in perspective about "brutal". There's a difference between getting a blister for spamming the 1 key, and playing games at the time were the status quo that could maim or kill you. If you couldn't find out what X key did or how to unlock a treasure you could experiment. The kid didn't have a manual, and learned from the school of hardest knocks, that playing with explosives is v-e-r-y dangerous...with manual or not.
It also was the generation that began the video game "revolution" in the 70s when PCs and consoles appeared. They saw both worlds before convenience changed everything.
This brings back memories of almost watching people go up like giant candles because it was fun to burn stuff with gasoline, carrying people home because hitting gravel at fifteen miles and hour hurts and the look of utter horror on my mom's face as I walked into the house with a copperhead. Man, we were stupid. It makes me wonder how many people are becoming teenagers instead of corpses because of video games.
Was outside by the big Magnolia tree in the front yard as a kid. A h-u-g-e coral snake slithered by. I ran inside screaming for mom. Mom was in the kitchen, and came out and sliced and diced it with a butcher knife like an afterthought.
I guess crime was less in those days not because everyone had a 30.06 at the doorway, but because even mom's never saw a knife/shovel/flare gun that couldn't be used. She was a crack shot, too. ^-^
But it was a more dangerous time and folks experimented with things, that today, would get them labeled as domestic terrorists (well then kids were better mannered and knew right from wrong from not being denied moral training. Today I was amazed that a kid the other morning cussing some lyrics out at a school bus stop was allowed out of diapers, after all they wear them for 5 years these days). -_-
No and that's why it is a travesty where the industry is today. But it has changed slowly enough that there was no possibility of any real backlash before Kickstarter and Indie gaming. Now we may see the rooks come home to roost.
The idea that teenagers today want easier games or as not as capable as we once were is nonsense. Those new gamers are coming into an industry that has both dumbed down gaming and made it easymode. If that's all you have every played, that's all you are ever going to know.
Originally posted by -aLpHa- Kids don't know any better, the game industry basically teaches them the term instant gratification and they absorb it like a sponge because they are kids.It's not really the fault of the "kids", its the fault of adults, be it as a producer or consumer.
While true, I would say that society has their hands in this, too.
"Everybody Wins!" "Gold Stars for Everyone!" "Nobody is allowed to feel bad." "Everybody is special." (Meaning nobody is.)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by -aLpHa- Kids don't know any better, the game industry basically teaches them the term instant gratification and they absorb it like a sponge because they are kids.
It's not really the fault of the "kids", its the fault of adults, be it as a producer or consumer.
While true, I would say that society has their hands in this, too.
"Everybody Wins!" "Gold Stars for Everyone!" "Nobody is allowed to feel bad." "Everybody is special." (Meaning nobody is.)
Don't forget the participation ribbon replacing first, second ,third place. /rolleyes
Every time people tell my nephew it doesn't matter if you win or lose as long as you had fun, I whisper " that's what the loser says " to him.
Winning doesn't have to be everything, but it should be something you try for. The only time you should be happy about coming in second is if you did better than the last time you tried. Otherwise you were just the number one loser.
There seems to be a common thought that teenagers and little kids are complete morons who want the most basic and simplistic gameplay there is.
I don't know about you, but I grew up playing NES games which were brutally hard and didn't explain a damn thing to you. I was 4 years old playing the original Final Fantasy and just getting dropped into this big world having to figure it all out. I was about 11 when I played my first MMO (Nexus TK) and 13 or 14 when I played EverQuest 1 and again, I just had to figure these things out. I didn't want my hand held, I didn't complain things took too long. I just wanted to rush home from school so I could play more!
I think people forget what they were actually like when they were kids. Children are naturally curious and want to learn things and figure things out. I am amazed how my little cousins manage to figure out things in Minecraft so quickly without any instructions. They just dive right in and play in this sandbox figuring everything out. And we are talking about 4-7yr olds.
I actually find that as an adult I am far less willing to learn a new game if it doesn't teach me well. I don't want to waste 4 hours of my day just figuring out how to get out of the city or craft a pair of boots. I want to jump in and have fun before I have to go to bed!
That's not to say I don't like deeper experiences at all, I am just far less excited about putting in the effort than I was as a kid.
Don't underestimate kids, the games aren't being dumbed down for them. They're being dumbed down for adults, maybe not the hardcore ones on this site. But the ones who don't want to dedicate their lives to video games anymore.
I have to agree completely with this. Well written. When i was 5 i got my nintendo entertainment system when it came out. ALL games were just hard. There was no other choice, but the thing is, we just didn't know any better to be honest. Those were the games we had to play. I believe that games are being "dumbed down" so to speak for the working adult audience. My daughter is 4, almost 5, and she has nearly mastered minecraft, but my older brother who is 40 can't really catch on. That says something.
Indeed I hate when in FPS I top of charts with loads of kills and rest of the team behind with ton of deaths . And in the end of match some of they says WIN is not important I had fun !! "he had fun being head shoted 19 times ? " this idiotic thinking come from US and Canada where education minister is trying to make all kid equal there is no loasers . I hate this pussification of kids old school thinking is completely different like freaking Koreans WIN or death
Korea : You do this split or I send your family in concentration camp.
USA /CANADA : Billy don't be sad is important that you tired and had fun .
I fell sad that Europe so desperately is trying to copy paste bad sides of other counties.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Very true! People look so fondly on their memories of hardcore forced grouping in everquest. If anyone took their rose colored glasses off they would remember people were constantly asking for ways to solo and "what classes can solo the best?" My brother was a hardcore raider but while leveling he often camped for days killing the same guard over and over again because he could do it solo and didn't have to worry about finding a group.
Back then most could solo but you were soloing greens that were well under your level. However Druids and Necro's could solo oranges fairly easy and druids groups of even or just under their level with kiting. People were asking for that kind of power which just shouldn't happen for most class's.
Back in Kunark days though as a monk and a paladin I had solo'd up midway through kunark. Yes plenty of groups as well but I was still capable of soloing stuff a tad under my level and quickly. However it did take skill and not just button mashing at times.
Most people loved being pushed into groups and the game being group concentrated. Its how you made friends, got into decent guilds of all types, and had the social aspect. Sure at times it sucked camping at a drop spawn for hours on end but constant chat in group and in /ooc. This made a strong community. But what really sucked was waiting hours and hours on a list to get into a specific camp which is can be more fixed these days through instances or multiple copies of the same dungeon.
Major problems we have today as far as community goes though is most solo play to max, leveling way to fast, cross server groups, and especially a LFG system. Now just queue in an LFG system rather then make regular friends to hit up when you want a dungeon crawl.
So sure EQ1 had issues also but it had what games today don't have and that's a real community and a need for comrades.
When I was a kid there were no computers or at least no home computers. There were not popular until early 1980's at which time I started hacking the games I did have so I could play longer. Having 3 lives and starting again was too steep a learning curve!
When I was a kid there was no real internet and no guidebooks or walkthroughs. Unless you either had a buddy who'd already beaten the game or could figure it out yourself you were pretty screwed. So yeah that made RPGs harder, whether it was a good kind of hard is another question. Often it was just a question of not thinking in quite the same way as the dev was thinking rather than being really dense. Like in some games you actually had to figure out it wanted you to say "place sword in sheath" instead of "put sword in sheath" and it wouldn't work if you didn't type it exactly the way the dev wanted which was kind of dumb (but caused by tech limitations not game design). I do think games today try way too hard to be" accessible" even to a blind 3 year old with Down's Syndrome though. There's a balance that should be struck.
When I was a kid, there were no video games or computers (except mainframes in government labs), heck the calculator wasn't even invented yet. (Seriously, I got one for graduation from high school, replaced my slide rule)
No VCR's, no microwaves, no cell phones, no CD's, (8 track tapes baby), surprised we weren't still living in caves.
Our idea of hardcore gaming was playing RiSK or never ending monopoly marathons.
Enjoy what you have guys, it truly is a marvelous age to be a gamer.
Holy cow.. You must be 40 years old or more, I don't know but for me to know people at the older age able to enjoy video games of any sort it's a marvelous view. If you have children, they are hell lucky.
Indeed I hate when in FPS I top of charts with loads of kills and rest of the team behind with ton of deaths . And in the end of match some of they says WIN is not important I had fun !! "he had fun being head shoted 19 times ? " this idiotic thinking come from US and Canada where education minister is trying to make all kid equal there is no loasers . I hate this pussification of kids old school thinking is completely different like freaking Koreans WIN or death
Korea : You do this split or I send your family in concentration camp.
USA /CANADA : Billy don't be sad is important that you tired and had fun .
I fell sad that Europe so desperately is trying to copy paste bad sides of other counties.
Isn't that the idea of playing a video game? sure I agree with your point of view, but at the same time you gotta tolerate people that just wants to play to have fun, they don't have to time to play/practice non stop. You can't compare life and death situation with video game scenes, its totally different. If you let your self surrounded by the type of people you dislike, its not their fault, it's yours. Maybe that's because you are leaving them behind in those match? Team work is crucial specially in fps game (unless its a free for all deathmatch but then again you can team up with others).
I understand you get frustrated by these type of people, I do to but I try to comprehend that they perhaps don't have the skill to go off by them self, and that they require support from the skilled players (atleast that's what I do when I play MOBA games, if there was someone left behind in level, or their lane being wrecked, I come and help them as often as I can.
To avoid more disappointment, perhaps you should enlist with the army where people around you doesn't have the option to perform badly, hence you will be satisfied with their overall performance because they are trained that way.
Originally posted by MikePaladin Indeed I hate when in FPS I top of charts with loads of kills and rest of the team behind with ton of deaths . And in the end of match some of they says WIN is not important I had fun !! "he had fun being head shoted 19 times ? " this idiotic thinking come from US and Canada where education minister is trying to make all kid equal there is no loasers . I hate this pussification of kids old school thinking is completely different like freaking Koreans WIN or death Korea : You do this split or I send your family in concentration camp.USA /CANADA : Billy don't be sad is important that you tired and had fun .I fell sad that Europe so desperately is trying to copy paste bad sides of other counties.
Yea, individual stats top team success every time, doesn't it?
Why weren't *you* helping your TEAMMATES out instead of chalking up your own stats? That end listing is not the be all/end all of TEAM games.
Brings to mind tat spoiled athlete that has great stats but his team loses all the time. He is happy, though. "All Star Game, Here I come! (and fat contract.)"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I never really thought about difficulty growing up. I just sort of took things as they were. I mean, there were games I found challenging, and I relished the challenge -- there are a number of platformers I beat as a kid that actually surprise me with how difficult they were in retrospect compared to most stuff I play today (Castlevania, Mega Man, TMNT; yes I know there are even harder ones) -- but I didn't specifically go out looking for hard games.
One thing that could be said is that easier games allowed more people to enjoy them, allowing the consumer side of the market to expand greatly. I think there are probably more kids today wanting/expecting easy games (or at least the option) than there were when I was a kid, when a larger number of the popular games often came in just "hard" difficulty.
That of course doesn't have to apply to just kids. There are also many adult gamers who have been brought into the market because difficulty is less of a barrier to entry IMO.
Comments
I just wanted whatever game looked cool.
EDIT: Spelling
Pretty much this.
I'm older than average for around here, my first console was an Intellivision, I spent my high school years hacking Apple II+ games for kicks and hanging out in arcades with my friends or bf-of-the-moment. Games back then tended to be dead simple, but often either trivially easy or, more commonly, brutally unforgivingl in their gameplay mechanics.
It made sense, really. Gaming back then was severely constrained by the technology of the time and it by-and-large revolved around the arcade where the goal was to get you shove another quarter in the machine and the way to do that was to kill you as quickly as possible without scaring you away.
They weren't trying to give you a challenge, the game mechanics weren't brutal and unforgiving because they thought you could take it, thought that's what you wanted. The mechanics were brutal and punishing -- if simplistic -- because they wanted you to die, they wanted you to fail, because if you didn't you were tying up the machine without having to shove a constant stream of quarters into the slot.
Personally when I was a kid dreaming of what I ultimately wanted in video games the last thing I would have concerned myself with is worrying about whether they'd be easier or harder -- the terms had very little meaning in context. I dreamed of better (maybe even 3D?) graphics, more variety (something arcade games severely lacked), more gameplay options, and, of course, the possibility of not having my progress come to a screeching halt just because I ran out of quarters or it was time to go home.
Personally I don't really get the whole "games are too easy" thing. Sure, I get a bit frustrated at some of it. Yeah, T2s getting nerfed into the ground in Rift pretty much killed the game for me, I miss how BC-era heroics would rip a group to shreds in seconds if they weren't on their game, and I've watched some franchises I used to like become, well, not what I'd call a challenge, but that's only part of the picture. I watch my pre-teen nephews, who all think I'm Aunt Gaming Goddess because they don't yet realize it's mostly a matter of decades of experience they don't yet have, play in various games and I realize that game designers have to ease things back a bit for them. Or my friends, many of whom play games, mostly MMOs or console games, but most of whom aren't interested in putting the kind of time and energy into gaming that it would take to reach the level of what most around here would consider a "real" gamer.
They just want to have fun, they're just as (if not more) willing to throw money at the screen as you and I, and there's way, way, way more of them.
It's not that there aren't plenty of challenges available. People tend to talk about games like WoW as "easy", acting as though leveling is some sort of standard to measure by, as if leveling in any MMO was ever particularly difficult (frustrating, perhaps, but not difficult), and wholly ignoring harder -- in some cases brutally difficult -- content that not only is there, but likely is harder than they themselves could manage. It's the same with consoles and single-player PC games. A lot of it has gotten easier, no doubt, but there's still plenty of challenge to be found if you care to look.
Unfortunately I think a lot of this is nothing more than "Get off my lawn!". A recognition that the gaming market is no longer primarily targeting the hardcore gamer, hasn't been for quite some time, and a lot of gamers, somewhat understandably, resent that. Resent it all you want, it won't change anything. You aren't the primary target market anymore, and that's not going to change. You're a niche, a sufficiently large one that there will likely always be a place for you in gaming, but you aren't, and won't likely ever be again, center stage.
Maybe you are right at some point
But the fact that games become so easy and hand helded nowadays makes them less attractive.
I wouldn's say that they make games this way in order to attract adults.
My opinion is that they make the game easy and handheld in order to make people as stupid as possible using less and less their brains so as to make more stupid decisions in their lives and spent their money with more stupidity on things that does not deserve a single cent.period
When I was 4 years-old I remember my brother's friend limping into the living room, with his knee cap blown off.
See kids then didn't have video games. The boys were almost all Boy Scouts and had a big fascination in playing war in the woods and building model airplanes and tanks and packing them full of explosives, then lighting them up.
I knew more about a Bazooka at 4 years-old than my letters, because Johnny would bring it out for a show and tell, before the schools would even teach them!
Scene: 1970 America.
Let's keep things in perspective about "brutal". There's a difference between getting a blister for spamming the 1 key, and playing games at the time were the status quo that could maim or kill you. If you couldn't find out what X key did or how to unlock a treasure you could experiment. The kid didn't have a manual, and learned from the school of hardest knocks, that playing with explosives is v-e-r-y dangerous...with manual or not.
It also was the generation that began the video game "revolution" in the 70s when PCs and consoles appeared. They saw both worlds before convenience changed everything.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Well this game's box looked cool and the inside was even cooler
See kids then didn't have video games. The boys were almost all Boy Scouts and had a big fascination in playing war in the woods and building model airplanes and tanks and packing them full of explosives, then lighting them up.
I knew more about a Bazooka at 4 years-old than my letters, because Johnny would bring it out for a show and tell, before the schools would even teach them!
Scene: 1970 America.
Let's keep things in perspective about "brutal". There's a difference between getting a blister for spamming the 1 key, and playing games at the time were the status quo that could maim or kill you. If you couldn't find out what X key did or how to unlock a treasure you could experiment. The kid didn't have a manual, and learned from the school of hardest knocks, that playing with explosives is v-e-r-y dangerous...with manual or not.
It also was the generation that began the video game "revolution" in the 70s when PCs and consoles appeared. They saw both worlds before convenience changed everything.
This brings back memories of almost watching people go up like giant candles because it was fun to burn stuff with gasoline, carrying people home because hitting gravel at fifteen miles and hour hurts and the look of utter horror on my mom's face as I walked into the house with a copperhead. Man, we were stupid. It makes me wonder how many people are becoming teenagers instead of corpses because of video games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Better... http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Radiance-Forgotten-Realms/dp/B000A0I9S0
Why better? It was a RPG, not a hack and slash game.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
The simple answer is no. No i did not like easy games, i brought them back to the shop, getting a new one. Oh well... back then this was still possible ;-)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Was outside by the big Magnolia tree in the front yard as a kid. A h-u-g-e coral snake slithered by. I ran inside screaming for mom. Mom was in the kitchen, and came out and sliced and diced it with a butcher knife like an afterthought.
I guess crime was less in those days not because everyone had a 30.06 at the doorway, but because even mom's never saw a knife/shovel/flare gun that couldn't be used. She was a crack shot, too. ^-^
But it was a more dangerous time and folks experimented with things, that today, would get them labeled as domestic terrorists (well then kids were better mannered and knew right from wrong from not being denied moral training. Today I was amazed that a kid the other morning cussing some lyrics out at a school bus stop was allowed out of diapers, after all they wear them for 5 years these days). -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
No and that's why it is a travesty where the industry is today. But it has changed slowly enough that there was no possibility of any real backlash before Kickstarter and Indie gaming. Now we may see the rooks come home to roost.
The idea that teenagers today want easier games or as not as capable as we once were is nonsense. Those new gamers are coming into an industry that has both dumbed down gaming and made it easymode. If that's all you have every played, that's all you are ever going to know.
"Everybody Wins!"
"Gold Stars for Everyone!"
"Nobody is allowed to feel bad."
"Everybody is special." (Meaning nobody is.)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Don't forget the participation ribbon replacing first, second ,third place. /rolleyes
Every time people tell my nephew it doesn't matter if you win or lose as long as you had fun, I whisper " that's what the loser says " to him.
Winning doesn't have to be everything, but it should be something you try for. The only time you should be happy about coming in second is if you did better than the last time you tried. Otherwise you were just the number one loser.
I want games with a difficulty slider (like that in D3, or GW2 where you can choose whether to do a challenger or easy event).
In that case, no one can complain if the game is too easy, or too hard.
I have to agree completely with this. Well written. When i was 5 i got my nintendo entertainment system when it came out. ALL games were just hard. There was no other choice, but the thing is, we just didn't know any better to be honest. Those were the games we had to play. I believe that games are being "dumbed down" so to speak for the working adult audience. My daughter is 4, almost 5, and she has nearly mastered minecraft, but my older brother who is 40 can't really catch on. That says something.
No. Absolutely not. My first PC games: King's Quest, Police Quest, Quest for Glory. I had to use chat commands to do anything...
I was able to beat 'em all at the age of 9. Those games are 10x harder than anything today.
I can't do games with too much tutorial or verbage. Boring.
Indeed I hate when in FPS I top of charts with loads of kills and rest of the team behind with ton of deaths . And in the end of match some of they says WIN is not important I had fun !! "he had fun being head shoted 19 times ? " this idiotic thinking come from US and Canada where education minister is trying to make all kid equal there is no loasers . I hate this pussification of kids old school thinking is completely different like freaking Koreans WIN or death
Korea : You do this split or I send your family in concentration camp.
USA /CANADA : Billy don't be sad is important that you tired and had fun .
I fell sad that Europe so desperately is trying to copy paste bad sides of other counties.
Back then most could solo but you were soloing greens that were well under your level. However Druids and Necro's could solo oranges fairly easy and druids groups of even or just under their level with kiting. People were asking for that kind of power which just shouldn't happen for most class's.
Back in Kunark days though as a monk and a paladin I had solo'd up midway through kunark. Yes plenty of groups as well but I was still capable of soloing stuff a tad under my level and quickly. However it did take skill and not just button mashing at times.
Most people loved being pushed into groups and the game being group concentrated. Its how you made friends, got into decent guilds of all types, and had the social aspect. Sure at times it sucked camping at a drop spawn for hours on end but constant chat in group and in /ooc. This made a strong community. But what really sucked was waiting hours and hours on a list to get into a specific camp which is can be more fixed these days through instances or multiple copies of the same dungeon.
Major problems we have today as far as community goes though is most solo play to max, leveling way to fast, cross server groups, and especially a LFG system. Now just queue in an LFG system rather then make regular friends to hit up when you want a dungeon crawl.
So sure EQ1 had issues also but it had what games today don't have and that's a real community and a need for comrades.
Holy cow.. You must be 40 years old or more, I don't know but for me to know people at the older age able to enjoy video games of any sort it's a marvelous view. If you have children, they are hell lucky.
Isn't that the idea of playing a video game? sure I agree with your point of view, but at the same time you gotta tolerate people that just wants to play to have fun, they don't have to time to play/practice non stop. You can't compare life and death situation with video game scenes, its totally different. If you let your self surrounded by the type of people you dislike, its not their fault, it's yours. Maybe that's because you are leaving them behind in those match? Team work is crucial specially in fps game (unless its a free for all deathmatch but then again you can team up with others).
I understand you get frustrated by these type of people, I do to but I try to comprehend that they perhaps don't have the skill to go off by them self, and that they require support from the skilled players (atleast that's what I do when I play MOBA games, if there was someone left behind in level, or their lane being wrecked, I come and help them as often as I can.
To avoid more disappointment, perhaps you should enlist with the army where people around you doesn't have the option to perform badly, hence you will be satisfied with their overall performance because they are trained that way.
Why weren't *you* helping your TEAMMATES out instead of chalking up your own stats? That end listing is not the be all/end all of TEAM games.
Brings to mind tat spoiled athlete that has great stats but his team loses all the time. He is happy, though. "All Star Game, Here I come! (and fat contract.)"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I never really thought about difficulty growing up. I just sort of took things as they were. I mean, there were games I found challenging, and I relished the challenge -- there are a number of platformers I beat as a kid that actually surprise me with how difficult they were in retrospect compared to most stuff I play today (Castlevania, Mega Man, TMNT; yes I know there are even harder ones) -- but I didn't specifically go out looking for hard games.
One thing that could be said is that easier games allowed more people to enjoy them, allowing the consumer side of the market to expand greatly. I think there are probably more kids today wanting/expecting easy games (or at least the option) than there were when I was a kid, when a larger number of the popular games often came in just "hard" difficulty.
That of course doesn't have to apply to just kids. There are also many adult gamers who have been brought into the market because difficulty is less of a barrier to entry IMO.