The fact that F2P models can often be "more profitable" (ergo, can capture more people, some of which pay more money) is very old news, and I am not entirely sure why this is brought up. Worrying too much about a company's income is one of this forum's core problems. It shouldn't matter to any consumer how profitable something is to this or that company. The only thing that should matter is the final product. We should all be arguing about what makes a good MMO, not a profitable one. I don't give two shits how profitable something is.
Why don't you look at Farmville, Club Penguin, Tribal Wars, etc.? Dota 2 / LoL models? Uhh, Google? Yes, non-direct selling can turn a huge profit. This is old news.
My question is: who the fuck cares?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Originally posted by Ozivois If you take out games that are not actual MMORPG games, only 2 are left and those involve subscriptions...
Actually 3..
Lineage 1 (1998)
WoW (2004)
SW:TOR (2011)
And if these are the top 3 MMORPG earners worldwide, what does it tell about the genre today?
That the new generation of every kid needs to wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, live in a bubble cannot fend for themselves want to throw out evolution because survival of the fittest is mean genre has taken over.
So basically F2P makes more money than P2P as long as you ignore pesky little things like income from subs?
Definitely useful information.
This would be the relevent information for you to see. This is the U.S. digital games market.
F2P and DLC make more money than subscriptions for digital games. Even if all of WoW's remaining subscribers bought boxes, that doesn't make up the difference between Subscriptions and F2P revenues.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Wait so the OP thought that Wow is making 200 mil a year when they get more than 100 mil a MONTH just from subs? This data officially settles that people who support F2P are delusional.
Lets assume wow has 4m NA/Eu players at $15 a month thats 60m in revenue every month so how did wow not make $720+m in revenue ? That chart is revenue not profit so wows numbers should be way higher.
Officially WoW has still 7 Million subscribers so WoW revenues from Subscriptions is $ 1.2 Billion + $200 Million in MT = $1.4 Billion
Which means around $400 Million more than Crossfire (the top F2P game)
So P2P makes more money than F2P when the game is popular.............. that's settled OP
Didn't read the whole page that was linked did you? It says the total number of subscribers, for all games offering subscriptions combined, is only 5.3 million. TOR and EvE each supposedly have around half a million, so even if those two and WoW were the only games offering subs, that would still make WoW's theoretical maximum only 4.3 million.
Originally posted by NagelRitter
The fact that F2P models can often be "more profitable" (ergo, can capture more people, some of which pay more money) is very old news, and I am not entirely sure why this is brought up. Worrying too much about a company's income is one of this forum's core problems. It shouldn't matter to any consumer how profitable something is to this or that company. The only thing that should matter is the final product. We should all be arguing about what makes a good MMO, not a profitable one. I don't give two shits how profitable something is.
Arguing about what is "good" is pointless, because it's entirely a matter of opinion. Arguing about what is more or less successful is something you can actually cite to evidence and logic in order to establish. Also the people who put up the money to finance these games only care about "good" to the extent it helps with "successful."
And if it doesn't matter how profitable something is to you, you don't understand how the game industry works. There are two reasons you want any game you like to be as profitable as it possibly can be; it increases the likelihood that that game gets more content created for it, and it increases the likelihood that other developers will create more games that try to offer a similar experience. People who are happy when a game they play barely turns a profit are being extremely shortsighted.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
In the top 10 money making games (and most listed here on MMORPG.com), all but ONE is sub-only (WOW).
And wow is only #7, and making less than half compared to LoL.
This pretty much shows that to make money, F2P beats P2P, and often you don't even need a virtual world.
To suggest that one authors findings settles the debate over f2p vs p2p of which makes more then the other is small minded. This would suggest through these finds that we the community of MMO gamers are dumb for supporting f2p when in return everyone would pay more then you would for a sub.
f2p is evil, I always have said this and this is a example of how evil corps that use this model exploit the end game player. One stamen that i predict will be said is "not everyone is a end game gamer". This is true but, how many of us strive to be close to that end game as possible and why else play a game if you don't want to see end game content?
I love most of the kickstarters that have popped up, I have faith that the ones that succeed will face law suits from companies like EA crying about lose of revenue due to kickstarters success. Much like what Microsoft does they will keep them in court and run them dry, thats where we come in as the consumer, we speak best with our money, stop buying crap from large corps and they lose all their power.
To suggest that one authors findings settles the debate over f2p vs p2p of which makes more then the other is small minded. This would suggest through these finds that we the community of MMO gamers are dumb for supporting f2p when in return everyone would pay more then you would for a sub.
f2p is evil, I always have said this and this is a example of how evil corps that use this model exploit the end game player. One stamen that i predict will be said is "not everyone is a end game gamer". This is true but, how many of us strive to be close to that end game as possible and why else play a game if you don't want to see end game content?
I love most of the kickstarters that have popped up, I have faith that the ones that succeed will face law suits from companies like EA crying about lose of revenue due to kickstarters success. Much like what Microsoft does they will keep them in court and run them dry, thats where we come in as the consumer, we speak best with our money, stop buying crap from large corps and they lose all their power.
You just used the word evil to refer to people trying to make money. Credibility, gone.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
In the top 10 money making games (and most listed here on MMORPG.com), all but ONE is sub-only (WOW).
And wow is only #7, and making less than half compared to LoL.
This pretty much shows that to make money, F2P beats P2P, and often you don't even need a virtual world.
Another post from the champion of "all MMO's need to be F2P" because he admits over and over how he never spends a cent on MMO's and purposefully rides on the backs of whales...
Quite frankly I can't wait for the more sub games so I for one won't have to be party to people like this.
When and if the latest crop of games with sub change their business model, I will re-evaluate my position on those affected games.
When and if the latest crop of games with sub change their business model, I will re-evaluate my position on those affected games.
My money is on when.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Ozivois If you take out games that are not actual MMORPG games, only 2 are left and those involve subscriptions...
Actually 3..
Lineage 1 (1998)
WoW (2004)
SW:TOR (2011)
And if these are the top 3 MMORPG earners worldwide, what does it tell about the genre today?
That the new generation of every kid needs to wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, live in a bubble cannot fend for themselves want to throw out evolution because survival of the fittest is mean genre has taken over.
Don't forget, every kid gets a medal just for participating...
You all know that chart just shows how much money f2p games earned right ? it's not a comparison to p2p in any way. If people want to argue that f2p games fail and don't earn money...well the chart shows they're wrong. If you want to show which game earns the most....you're not looking at the full picture with just that chart.
Who earns more money only shows what people pick more often.
Loaded statistics because your company is in cahoots with a top F2P game? Never!
No company has ever skewered their statistics to make what they want to look better!
/rollseyes
Interesting theory. Please, give us your link to a report summarizing 2013 that contradicts this one.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Crossfire TOP? 957 mil? micro-transaction sales in 2013 ?
Think about it how many mind less people buy trash from this cash shop. I don't believe numbers to be honest I know people are retarded but I never expected they can be so stupid.
game reviews
-advice from me try this game and after 1-2 hours playing then remove from your computer
-1 zerg fest mo skill game.2 hackers and QQ BR's= never touch this game
-It's a terrible overrated game. different sources
Does it make the game a better product? The one F2P I have played and payed for, Planetside 2 , I regret every penny and played so long ONLY because I was fool enough to give SOE my money and wanted to get something back. What has long term viability the scammy F2P model or a P2P with a quality product?
To suggest that one authors findings settles the debate over f2p vs p2p of which makes more then the other is small minded. This would suggest through these finds that we the community of MMO gamers are dumb for supporting f2p when in return everyone would pay more then you would for a sub.
f2p is evil, I always have said this and this is a example of how evil corps that use this model exploit the end game player. One stamen that i predict will be said is "not everyone is a end game gamer". This is true but, how many of us strive to be close to that end game as possible and why else play a game if you don't want to see end game content?
I love most of the kickstarters that have popped up, I have faith that the ones that succeed will face law suits from companies like EA crying about lose of revenue due to kickstarters success. Much like what Microsoft does they will keep them in court and run them dry, thats where we come in as the consumer, we speak best with our money, stop buying crap from large corps and they lose all their power.
You just used the word evil to refer to people trying to make money. Credibility, gone.
You seem very confused or just simply blind def and dumb to what is considered " trying to make money" and people trying to make a ton of money with cheap tricks. As far as evil part of it all just do a good search for " greed and money" something tells me that about 100 or so creditable websites will pop-up telling you how "evil" it is for people to be greedy and what it brings.
Back on topic, F2p is only can only be done if every thing you can make is on par with everything you can buy, swtor and neverwinter are by far the worst of the worst when it comes to the market and showing how evil they really can get. In swtor if you are a F2p person you have to pay money for more then 1 casting bar if i remember right, wtf is that? In neverwinter you have to pay $5.00 for a health stone that last 5 or 10 charges while the ones you can buy with in game currency are about half as good.
I personally will stop supporting the evil Corps. and focus my time, effort and money toward kickstarters.
Playing a game that charges me a sub and still has all the same issues of a cash shop and then whining that a game that lets me play for free but has those same cash shop issues strikes me as irrational
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
You all know that chart just shows how much money f2p games earned right ? it's not a comparison to p2p in any way. If people want to argue that f2p games fail and don't earn money...well the chart shows they're wrong. If you want to show which game earns the most....you're not looking at the full picture with just that chart.
Who earns more money only shows what people pick more often.
It's a comparison of digitally distributed games. F2P vs Subscriptions is actually in there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You all know that chart just shows how much money f2p games earned right ? it's not a comparison to p2p in any way. If people want to argue that f2p games fail and don't earn money...well the chart shows they're wrong. If you want to show which game earns the most....you're not looking at the full picture with just that chart.
Who earns more money only shows what people pick more often.
It doesn't give a list of top ten sub games, but if you go further down the page, it does compare the total revenue of sub vs. cash shops. Cash shop ("free") was almost three times as much as sub. (For all games combined, obviously.) With a total number of subscribers, for all games combined, of 5.3 million.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
People who believe a payment model for an optional game that people play in their spare time for entertainment or the company doing it are evil are definitely irrational with no real concept of what evil actually is.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
ROFL! Comparing lol for making money is like comparing wow for making money but both have one issue ! They aren't the rule . true all strive and want to be like those cash cow . but the truth is not many do .hell blizzard it self is having a hard time competing with wow
You seem very confused or just simply blind def and dumb to what is considered " trying to make money" and people trying to make a ton of money with cheap tricks. As far as evil part of it all just do a good search for " greed and money" something tells me that about 100 or so creditable websites will pop-up telling you how "evil" it is for people to be greedy and what it brings.
...
I personally will stop supporting the evil Corps. and focus my time, effort and money toward kickstarters.
Blah blah, blah blah blah. Don't use words like evil in a discussion if you want anyone rational to take you seriously.
That said, I love kickstarter. I think it would be nice if all games, including those from major companies, went the Kickstarter route. That way the only games that would ever get produced (assuming the project managers accurately calculated how much the kickstarter needed to raise) would be ones that were already profitable before the first day of real work had even been done.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Comments
Actually 3..
Lineage 1 (1998)
WoW (2004)
SW:TOR (2011)
And if these are the top 3 MMORPG earners worldwide, what does it tell about the genre today?
The fact that F2P models can often be "more profitable" (ergo, can capture more people, some of which pay more money) is very old news, and I am not entirely sure why this is brought up. Worrying too much about a company's income is one of this forum's core problems. It shouldn't matter to any consumer how profitable something is to this or that company. The only thing that should matter is the final product. We should all be arguing about what makes a good MMO, not a profitable one. I don't give two shits how profitable something is.
Why don't you look at Farmville, Club Penguin, Tribal Wars, etc.? Dota 2 / LoL models? Uhh, Google? Yes, non-direct selling can turn a huge profit. This is old news.
My question is: who the fuck cares?
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
That the new generation of every kid needs to wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, live in a bubble cannot fend for themselves want to throw out evolution because survival of the fittest is mean genre has taken over.
This would be the relevent information for you to see. This is the U.S. digital games market.
F2P and DLC make more money than subscriptions for digital games. Even if all of WoW's remaining subscribers bought boxes, that doesn't make up the difference between Subscriptions and F2P revenues.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Didn't read the whole page that was linked did you? It says the total number of subscribers, for all games offering subscriptions combined, is only 5.3 million. TOR and EvE each supposedly have around half a million, so even if those two and WoW were the only games offering subs, that would still make WoW's theoretical maximum only 4.3 million.
Arguing about what is "good" is pointless, because it's entirely a matter of opinion. Arguing about what is more or less successful is something you can actually cite to evidence and logic in order to establish. Also the people who put up the money to finance these games only care about "good" to the extent it helps with "successful."
And if it doesn't matter how profitable something is to you, you don't understand how the game industry works. There are two reasons you want any game you like to be as profitable as it possibly can be; it increases the likelihood that that game gets more content created for it, and it increases the likelihood that other developers will create more games that try to offer a similar experience. People who are happy when a game they play barely turns a profit are being extremely shortsighted.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
To suggest that one authors findings settles the debate over f2p vs p2p of which makes more then the other is small minded. This would suggest through these finds that we the community of MMO gamers are dumb for supporting f2p when in return everyone would pay more then you would for a sub.
f2p is evil, I always have said this and this is a example of how evil corps that use this model exploit the end game player. One stamen that i predict will be said is "not everyone is a end game gamer". This is true but, how many of us strive to be close to that end game as possible and why else play a game if you don't want to see end game content?
I love most of the kickstarters that have popped up, I have faith that the ones that succeed will face law suits from companies like EA crying about lose of revenue due to kickstarters success. Much like what Microsoft does they will keep them in court and run them dry, thats where we come in as the consumer, we speak best with our money, stop buying crap from large corps and they lose all their power.
You just used the word evil to refer to people trying to make money. Credibility, gone.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
You could also show how many billions are served at McDonald's. But you won't catch me eating their crap when I'm hungry.
Another post from the champion of "all MMO's need to be F2P" because he admits over and over how he never spends a cent on MMO's and purposefully rides on the backs of whales...
Quite frankly I can't wait for the more sub games so I for one won't have to be party to people like this.
When and if the latest crop of games with sub change their business model, I will re-evaluate my position on those affected games.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
My money is on when.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Loaded statistics because your company is in cahoots with a top F2P game? Never!
No company has ever skewered their statistics to make what they want to look better!
/rollseyes
Don't forget, every kid gets a medal just for participating...
Society is turning to shit...
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
You all know that chart just shows how much money f2p games earned right ? it's not a comparison to p2p in any way. If people want to argue that f2p games fail and don't earn money...well the chart shows they're wrong. If you want to show which game earns the most....you're not looking at the full picture with just that chart.
Who earns more money only shows what people pick more often.
Interesting theory. Please, give us your link to a report summarizing 2013 that contradicts this one.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Crossfire TOP? 957 mil? micro-transaction sales in 2013 ?
Think about it how many mind less people buy trash from this cash shop. I don't believe numbers to be honest I know people are retarded but I never expected they can be so stupid.
game reviews
-advice from me try this game and after 1-2 hours playing then remove from your computer
-1 zerg fest mo skill game.2 hackers and QQ BR's= never touch this game
-It's a terrible overrated game. different sources
-Wow, I’ve never even heard of it
You seem very confused or just simply blind def and dumb to what is considered " trying to make money" and people trying to make a ton of money with cheap tricks. As far as evil part of it all just do a good search for " greed and money" something tells me that about 100 or so creditable websites will pop-up telling you how "evil" it is for people to be greedy and what it brings.
Back on topic, F2p is only can only be done if every thing you can make is on par with everything you can buy, swtor and neverwinter are by far the worst of the worst when it comes to the market and showing how evil they really can get. In swtor if you are a F2p person you have to pay money for more then 1 casting bar if i remember right, wtf is that? In neverwinter you have to pay $5.00 for a health stone that last 5 or 10 charges while the ones you can buy with in game currency are about half as good.
I personally will stop supporting the evil Corps. and focus my time, effort and money toward kickstarters.
It's a comparison of digitally distributed games. F2P vs Subscriptions is actually in there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It doesn't give a list of top ten sub games, but if you go further down the page, it does compare the total revenue of sub vs. cash shops. Cash shop ("free") was almost three times as much as sub. (For all games combined, obviously.) With a total number of subscribers, for all games combined, of 5.3 million.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
That WoW income is only from their microtransaction not the subs included
Blah blah, blah blah blah. Don't use words like evil in a discussion if you want anyone rational to take you seriously.
That said, I love kickstarter. I think it would be nice if all games, including those from major companies, went the Kickstarter route. That way the only games that would ever get produced (assuming the project managers accurately calculated how much the kickstarter needed to raise) would be ones that were already profitable before the first day of real work had even been done.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.