Storyline us one of the most important aspects of a mmorg imo. Without a good story that landscape, ruined dungeon..virtual world becomes a boring and meaningless set of graphics no different to any other mmorg. Imagination brings games to life, and imagination needs inspiration.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by skyline385 Storyline quests are perfectly fine because it's a RPG game. But they shouldn't be of the type "you are a hero" because evereyone else then also becomes a hero. Why not make storyline quests where there already is hero (a NPC) and everyone is doing their part to make it count....And besides that, plain questing would become very very boring. Some story quests are fine.
There's nothing wrong with the "you are a hero" story. The problem arises when it becomes "you are THE HERO."
That is an excellent distinction!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
A story is important for the overall setting of the game, the lore it produces and is produced by. I agree, I too tire from being the grand saviour, the chosen one, messiah or whatever kids call them these days.. But it can be done differently! But let us not return to repeatable quests. It's a deal breaker to save a village from a villain, whom you kill at the end, and have to do it again and again every time a timer says he has respawned. No, story can and should affect the quests you do simply because it provides immersion and a reason for what is going on. We can easily avoid the hero story line simply by allowing people to make their own, or pick one from several different ones. Become a merchant or a merc.. A farmer or a common soldier in the army.
All these games that make you out to be the chosen one or the one hero of the day are getting old, they should be in single player games only. Everyone has the storyline quest and they make you just you out to be the hero, not every player playing the game.
Making everyone the storylines hero was just one part of the solo makeover MMOs got four or five years ago. I think in fact that they are the least problematic of the changes to make games more solo friendly. Other things like being able to solo to top level had far more impact.
If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs
All the point of MMO is that YOU make YOUR story.
Today MMO designers , simply dont get it... and we have the results
I don't think they don't get it , it just that they can keep make money from storyline quest design .
Also i think MMORPG design hit the limit of what computer can do .
in the end , PC can't replace human brain in creative.
They can't created events that wasn't per-written
or at lest , not in MMORPG where there are many factor interact with other.
In single player RPG , there are only you who change the game world , but in MMORPG , there are thousand to million people who going to change the game world .
Originally posted by Bladestrom Storyline us one of the most important aspects of a mmorg imo. Without a good story that landscape, ruined dungeon..virtual world becomes a boring and meaningless set of graphics no different to any other mmorg. Imagination brings games to life, and imagination needs inspiration.
Actually if you have imagination it will bring you a better story then what the developers bring to you because it will be personal. Whatever story the developers use will be something that is based on appealing to a wide audience. That means it can't be personal to the person playing because it can't cater towards a certain demographic. Having a world with magic, dungeons, forests, medieval weapons, dangerous creatures, and places to explore should be enough to ignite anyone's imagination that's got one IMO.
As fondly as I look back on my times in those games, I enjoyed them because everything was new, not because they were solid games that really delivered great things. Playing online with others felt like some kinda future technology that had arrived too soon.
The industry has changed and quest-less grinder MMOs are thankfully disappearing.
As fondly as I look back on my times in those games, I enjoyed them because everything was new, not because they were solid games that really delivered great things. Playing online with others felt like some kinda future technology that had arrived too soon.
The industry has changed and quest-less grinder MMOs are thankfully disappearing.
I disagree. It's true they were primitive, but that's what made them great. Now they are just copy and paste with very boring generic story that is written to appeal to every demographic they can think of. I also believe the games were great because the people who made them loved them. They were people who played PnP and wanted to make it into reality. The games now may be shiny, but they have no love. The skills are boring and generic. The stories are boring and generic. Everything is aimed at bringing in as much cash as possible. This is not just in gaming. Look at the whole entertainment industry. It lacks creativity of any sort. It just does surveys and studies to try and figure out how to milk people and keep them paying. People go to school for this!
I would also like to add that people on these forums are the same way. All they argue about all day is weather or not something will make more money. Thats all they care about as well! It's pretty sad. When I was growing up at least many people cared more about having a good time and less about the money.
All these games that make you out to be the chosen one or the one hero of the day are getting old, they should be in single player games only. Everyone has the storyline quest and they make you just you out to be the hero, not every player playing the game.
I so wish we could have a game that used the EQ1 quest system that every quest was just a repeatable turn in quest.
Yes, because simplistic repeatable quests which serve no narrative function, combined with nonstop grinding, is just so much deeper than having quests which often provide vital background information about events, zones, NPCs, lore, etc.
If they really bother you that much, don't play them. Problem solved.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
I think the character stories where it's the job of the character to save the world are getting old. I liked SWToR's character based story lines that limited their scope a little bit. My Jedi Consular had to save her Jedi master, not the universe. TSW's quest lines were leading to my character fighting the darkness, but not being the one true hero of the world, just one among many. This kind of thing is just fine to me. Nothing but fetch quests though? Bleh. No point in playing a theme park game structured that way.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I wouldn't mind server wide quests that everyone can take part in. Lets say, for example, that a dragon was terrorizing a city. Everyone can take part in the defence of the city, either by bringing supplies, fighting the dragon or doing repairs. Kinda like what EQN is doing.
However for the standard generic quests including "dynamic quests" I really don't know... I don't like them, in fact, after playing MMOs with them for 15 years, I detest them. However, most people will be lost without them. They will be on local shouting "what the hell do I do?!"
But I loath them. For me there is nothing worse than entering a new area with static NPC's with "!" above their heads and watching the poor bastards that play these game running around like good little gophers they are trying to finish the quests for the AI master race as soon as they can, with me about to reluctantly join them.
I think MMO's should take a leaf out of how Skyrim approaches things. You come across a dungeon, you have no idea whats in it but as you go through the dungeon you find bits of clues as to whats going on in that place. Usually it's just flavour and not particularly significant to the rest of the game. But I'm fine with that...
Anyway, standard quest just have to go, player driven content is the future.
As fondly as I look back on my times in those games, I enjoyed them because everything was new, not because they were solid games that really delivered great things. Playing online with others felt like some kinda future technology that had arrived too soon.
The industry has changed and quest-less grinder MMOs are thankfully disappearing.
It not simple nostalgia you know .
Main part that let player enjoy they time in EQ , AC and UO because they can play with other player.
Though the design are simple than now a days games , it left room for players enjoy they time with other .
That's good part that most player want to search in a MMO-RPG.
It true that those old game are hell and crap if you only play solo and never do party.
Most people who have good memory about old games are people who enjoy they time party with other.
It not everything are new after you play it for years , but people who play with are why some enjoy old game.
Like painting , you need to leave a open place for players come together , full schedule with quests and raid only cause down and boring .
Sometime a flaw can turn out be a good thing. That's hard part of design , it not 1+1=2 .
Simple fill player's time with quest and per written story wasn't good design in my point of view.
I agree that a campaign quest or story arch is unappealing to me in an MMORPG. I would rather all that time and effort go into creating more multiplayer content.
If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs
All the point of MMO is that YOU make YOUR story.
Today MMO designers , simply dont get it... and we have the results
At least we're having a step forward to those kill 5 boars and pick up 5 flower quest.
And having to click an npc and watch a movie is a better replacement?
I don't see this a step forward, quite a contrary.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by jackblit
All these games that make you out to be the chosen one or the one hero of the day are getting old, they should be in single player games only. Everyone has the storyline quest and they make you just you out to be the hero, not every player playing the game.
I so wish we could have a game that used the EQ1 quest system that every quest was just a repeatable turn in quest.
I am speaking for the gaming community as a whole when I implore you to never get into game design. That EQ1 system was the worst system ever.
How some people can think repeatable turn-in quests are the best is way beyond me.....
Because it's nostalgic so it is immediately better than other things, no matter what.
They usually tie in to end game lore... They are usually the most fun quest getting to max level.... Dunno the beef, who doesn't want to be a hero and save he world?
Story line good. Always being the good guy - bad. Always being the bad guy - bad. Being who you want - good. Being the hero - unavoidable really. Variety good. Options good. Option to skip story lines - good. Option to have no cut scenes - good. Cutscenes are awesome I would never skip them! Voice acting good. Voice acting many chars with only three actors - bad. Over 50 voice actors - epic - not affordable.
Storyline is not putting the game makers out much don't worry about it taking up so much budget that it leaves no devs left for combat action dynamics. Really, there's no shortage of writers just good devs. I imagine writers much like artists are willing to sacrifice themselves for free. Their "gift" is bleeding out their pores they can't help themselves.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Storyline us one of the most important aspects of a mmorg imo. Without a good story that landscape, ruined dungeon..virtual world becomes a boring and meaningless set of graphics no different to any other mmorg. Imagination brings games to life, and imagination needs inspiration.
Actually if you have imagination it will bring you a better story then what the developers bring to you because it will be personal. Whatever story the developers use will be something that is based on appealing to a wide audience. That means it can't be personal to the person playing because it can't cater towards a certain demographic. Having a world with magic, dungeons, forests, medieval weapons, dangerous creatures, and places to explore should be enough to ignite anyone's imagination that's got one IMO.
I dont get this make your own story in mmorpgs that you guys are saying.If a game has no pre-written story content how can you make your own story? By killing boars,rats,orcs again and gain and again ?I love an mmorpg with good storylines complete with voice acting and cutscenes to draw me into its world and relate to the characters.If a game just gives you an open playground do anything you want it would be not immersive and become boring very quickly.I like my mmorpgs to feel like true RPGs with intricate storyelling(agreed there aren't that many mmos with good story eg.NeverWinter and FF14 ARR) which just happen to be massively multiplayer.Its just that mmo gamers are tired of cliche and boring story we need better writers.
All these games that make you out to be the chosen one or the one hero of the day are getting old, they should be in single player games only. Everyone has the storyline quest and they make you just you out to be the hero, not every player playing the game.
nah ... just play them in instances .. it will be like single player games enough.
Originally posted by Lobotomist If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs
Just treat MMO instances as single player games, problem solved.
Why bother? Single player games are MUCH better then MMOs at being single player games.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Making everyone the storylines hero was just one part of the solo makeover MMOs got four or five years ago. I think in fact that they are the least problematic of the changes to make games more solo friendly. Other things like being able to solo to top level had far more impact.
If I wanted PRE-WRITTEN storyline quest , i would play single player RPGs
All the point of MMO is that YOU make YOUR story.
Today MMO designers , simply dont get it... and we have the results
I don't think they don't get it , it just that they can keep make money from storyline quest design .
Also i think MMORPG design hit the limit of what computer can do .
in the end , PC can't replace human brain in creative.
They can't created events that wasn't per-written
or at lest , not in MMORPG where there are many factor interact with other.
In single player RPG , there are only you who change the game world , but in MMORPG , there are thousand to million people who going to change the game world .
Actually if you have imagination it will bring you a better story then what the developers bring to you because it will be personal. Whatever story the developers use will be something that is based on appealing to a wide audience. That means it can't be personal to the person playing because it can't cater towards a certain demographic. Having a world with magic, dungeons, forests, medieval weapons, dangerous creatures, and places to explore should be enough to ignite anyone's imagination that's got one IMO.
At least we're having a step forward to those kill 5 boars and pick up 5 flower quest.
Don't let nostalgia fuel what isn't true.
Games like EQ, AC and UO are primitive as hell.
As fondly as I look back on my times in those games, I enjoyed them because everything was new, not because they were solid games that really delivered great things. Playing online with others felt like some kinda future technology that had arrived too soon.
The industry has changed and quest-less grinder MMOs are thankfully disappearing.
I disagree. It's true they were primitive, but that's what made them great. Now they are just copy and paste with very boring generic story that is written to appeal to every demographic they can think of. I also believe the games were great because the people who made them loved them. They were people who played PnP and wanted to make it into reality. The games now may be shiny, but they have no love. The skills are boring and generic. The stories are boring and generic. Everything is aimed at bringing in as much cash as possible. This is not just in gaming. Look at the whole entertainment industry. It lacks creativity of any sort. It just does surveys and studies to try and figure out how to milk people and keep them paying. People go to school for this!
I would also like to add that people on these forums are the same way. All they argue about all day is weather or not something will make more money. Thats all they care about as well! It's pretty sad. When I was growing up at least many people cared more about having a good time and less about the money.
Yes, because simplistic repeatable quests which serve no narrative function, combined with nonstop grinding, is just so much deeper than having quests which often provide vital background information about events, zones, NPCs, lore, etc.
If they really bother you that much, don't play them. Problem solved.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
I think the character stories where it's the job of the character to save the world are getting old. I liked SWToR's character based story lines that limited their scope a little bit. My Jedi Consular had to save her Jedi master, not the universe. TSW's quest lines were leading to my character fighting the darkness, but not being the one true hero of the world, just one among many. This kind of thing is just fine to me. Nothing but fetch quests though? Bleh. No point in playing a theme park game structured that way.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I wouldn't mind server wide quests that everyone can take part in. Lets say, for example, that a dragon was terrorizing a city. Everyone can take part in the defence of the city, either by bringing supplies, fighting the dragon or doing repairs. Kinda like what EQN is doing.
However for the standard generic quests including "dynamic quests" I really don't know... I don't like them, in fact, after playing MMOs with them for 15 years, I detest them. However, most people will be lost without them. They will be on local shouting "what the hell do I do?!"
But I loath them. For me there is nothing worse than entering a new area with static NPC's with "!" above their heads and watching the poor bastards that play these game running around like good little gophers they are trying to finish the quests for the AI master race as soon as they can, with me about to reluctantly join them.
I think MMO's should take a leaf out of how Skyrim approaches things. You come across a dungeon, you have no idea whats in it but as you go through the dungeon you find bits of clues as to whats going on in that place. Usually it's just flavour and not particularly significant to the rest of the game. But I'm fine with that...
Anyway, standard quest just have to go, player driven content is the future.
It not simple nostalgia you know .
Main part that let player enjoy they time in EQ , AC and UO because they can play with other player.
Though the design are simple than now a days games , it left room for players enjoy they time with other .
That's good part that most player want to search in a MMO-RPG.
It true that those old game are hell and crap if you only play solo and never do party.
Most people who have good memory about old games are people who enjoy they time party with other.
It not everything are new after you play it for years , but people who play with are why some enjoy old game.
Like painting , you need to leave a open place for players come together , full schedule with quests and raid only cause down and boring .
Sometime a flaw can turn out be a good thing. That's hard part of design , it not 1+1=2 .
Simple fill player's time with quest and per written story wasn't good design in my point of view.
And having to click an npc and watch a movie is a better replacement?
I don't see this a step forward, quite a contrary.
Because it's nostalgic so it is immediately better than other things, no matter what.
Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)
Story line good. Always being the good guy - bad. Always being the bad guy - bad. Being who you want - good. Being the hero - unavoidable really. Variety good. Options good. Option to skip story lines - good. Option to have no cut scenes - good. Cutscenes are awesome I would never skip them! Voice acting good. Voice acting many chars with only three actors - bad. Over 50 voice actors - epic - not affordable.
Storyline is not putting the game makers out much don't worry about it taking up so much budget that it leaves no devs left for combat action dynamics. Really, there's no shortage of writers just good devs. I imagine writers much like artists are willing to sacrifice themselves for free. Their "gift" is bleeding out their pores they can't help themselves.
I dont get this make your own story in mmorpgs that you guys are saying.If a game has no pre-written story content how can you make your own story? By killing boars,rats,orcs again and gain and again ?I love an mmorpg with good storylines complete with voice acting and cutscenes to draw me into its world and relate to the characters.If a game just gives you an open playground do anything you want it would be not immersive and become boring very quickly.I like my mmorpgs to feel like true RPGs with intricate storyelling(agreed there aren't that many mmos with good story eg.NeverWinter and FF14 ARR) which just happen to be massively multiplayer.Its just that mmo gamers are tired of cliche and boring story we need better writers.
nah ... just play them in instances .. it will be like single player games enough.
Just treat MMO instances as single player games, problem solved.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
because you can't do them multiplayer
I think it because ... well ... a lots F2P MMORPG out here that ... well .. don't need to spend money to buy the games.