- the area is bigger in ESO (unless you combine the 4 different maps of GW2)
- you have different races in the 3 factions (but the preorder will mess this up)
- the map is completely mirrored the keeps have no charisma. The Gw2 Keeps are better in this regard.
- you can have the trinity in ESO
Overall it's about the same. It's not DAOC2 by a long shot..... it's more like "RvR Basic Edition"
For a RvR indepth experience we have to wait more
I disagree with all of this, being that these statements could only be true in the broadest of sense. ESO AvA is a much better product, simple as that.
Its daoc R vR but they forgot one important imgredient.....
realmpoints
trough PvP in DAoC there was a system to continously keep gaining realmpoints and in the first 3 years noboddy got to max.... Continous progression of a character, no matter how small is important for individual players..
it wasnt there at release, but after a few months when players started leaving because the lack of progression yhey added the system and it worked.... It kept people playing...
They do have realm points. Just not realm abilities.
- the area is bigger in ESO (unless you combine the 4 different maps of GW2)
- you have different races in the 3 factions (but the preorder will mess this up)
- the map is completely mirrored the keeps have no charisma. The Gw2 Keeps are better in this regard.
- you can have the trinity in ESO
Overall it's about the same. It's not DAOC2 by a long shot..... it's more like "RvR Basic Edition"
For a RvR indepth experience we have to wait more
I disagree with all of this, being that these statements could only be true in the broadest of sense. ESO AvA is a much better product, simple as that.
Why? Because of what? For me, as stated on previous page, GW2 PvP was meaningless, zerg it, go to next, repeat. Can spend couple hours defending keeps etc, and then over night some Deutch guild can take it away form you without even a fight.
How AvA in ESO is in your opinion better than GW2?
Originally posted by Ghabbo You turn healthbars on for enemies only (that's what I did)... no lag at all in 50v50v50
Still how does that help when you need to x-team? (when its 75 vs 25 vs 25) it goes from pointless to fun if 25 and 25 join forces vs 75). For that to work you need to be able to visually identify an alliance really fast.
That was some of the most fun, my server was dominated by Hibs, so x-teaming with Albs (I played a Mid) made RvR very fun and balanced.
To be honest, even in a massive Zerg fight in Daoc, there was no time to look if this guy in front of you is now a hibbie or a mid. If there were zergs of 50v50v50, there was just chaos and carnage. And it was "kill or get killed"
The x-teamings you mean, have been decided before the actual fights. For example you would attack the south keep while the hibs would attacked the north keep. So, in ESO it will be the same. Look at the map, watch those crossed painted swords and fall them in the back
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
I've put about 14 hours into EOS PvP now and this definitely sums up the PvP for me. The combat itself, as in character control and skills, is fantastic, but this PvP system is incredibly boring. Zerg here, now zerg there, now go back and zerg here again. An individual player or even a small group can have no significant impact on the outcome. Then add to that there is nothing to lose by dying and virtually nothing significant to gain by killing, and you have one of the least exciting, least meaningful PvP experiences to come out in an MMO.
Which is a shame because I really wanted to like ESO. I LOVE the combat, the graphics/sound are great, the skill system and world are great. But if this PvP system is the only PvP to be found in the game, it doesn't merit a box+sub for me.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
I've put about 14 hours into EOS PvP now and this definitely sums up the PvP for me. The combat itself, as in character control and skills, is fantastic, but this PvP system is incredibly boring. Zerg here, now zerg there, now go back and zerg here again. An individual player or even a small group can have no significant impact on the outcome. Then add to that there is nothing to lose by dying and virtually nothing significant to gain by killing, and you have one of the least exciting, least meaningful PvP experiences to come out in an MMO.
Which is a shame because I really wanted to like ESO. I LOVE the combat, the graphics/sound are great, the skill system and world are great. But if this PvP system is the only PvP to be found in the game, it doesn't merit a box+sub for me.
Originally posted by Ghabbo You turn healthbars on for enemies only (that's what I did)... no lag at all in 50v50v50
Still how does that help when you need to x-team? (when its 75 vs 25 vs 25) it goes from pointless to fun if 25 and 25 join forces vs 75). For that to work you need to be able to visually identify an alliance really fast.
That was some of the most fun, my server was dominated by Hibs, so x-teaming with Albs (I played a Mid) made RvR very fun and balanced.
Iam pretty sure there will be symbols over the head of enemy players to identify them.
ESO RvR is seriously like GW2 RvR, on a bigger scale though (bigger castles, longer distances). Anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves, and nobody has (so far) brought any other reason "I don't know, it just is different... you've got to try it to understand" so I'd be cautious with these comments.
There are more similarities than differences to be honest. Not that this is a bad thing, I'm sure GW2 RvR can be improved but it is a great model to follow.
From what I gather, the options for "crowd control" in ESO are much more limited though (no wards, no walls projectile for reflection, no mass teleports, etc. - Guardian, Mesmer in GW2) - maybe there are skills I don't know about.
Two massive, massive, massive pluses I see:
- The size of the zone seems to be way bigger than in GW2, and is only one zone. I think this is much better personally, but then it takes ages to go from one keep to another keep. Will the mounts help? Possibly.
- Every class can stealth by crouching (as far as I understand the mechanics). This is huge. I can imagine entire groups being invisible to the enemy. Actually possibly game breaking. But this is good for people who play tanks, etc. to be able to jump on their enemies unseen instead of being constantly jumped on.
Originally posted by keithian
Im trying to figure out how a PVEer gets into PVP and slowly works there way into it to improve without feeling like an idiot lol. You read the chat box with any PVP game and it just feels so much more hostile than the PVE chat box.
-"No idiots go to that keep"
-"Why should I listen to leaders if the leaders aren't doing jack S%$T."
etc.
I really hope they have a way to let people who want to try not feel like between the rants and the overwhelming nature of PVP in general in a huge zone, that there is a way to break people in. Maybe PVPers will feel like the only way to do that is to jump right into the fire and die and learn. Thats intimidating to a lot of PVErs I think. I always felt more comfortable in scenarios which were tightly controlled and easier to dive into without feeling overwhelmed.
Any suggestions? lol
My suggestion would be: follow a group (or better, get an invite in a group, but by just following you can be asocial, so no need to talk to anyone, and you can roam freely). If 100 people go in one direction, it might be 100 idiots, but at least they stand a chance against another bunch of idiots.
I find PvE much more intimidating personally, having to "know" everything about an encounter before (where to stand, when, what to do, how) is much more work than I can put into an MMO - especially as I like to explore and discover freely, not having to read a freaking 100 pages manual about the perfect timing on encounters.
PvP works great in that respect, as knowing enough about the class and other classes (basically playing the game) should be enough to get you going. Then there is the thick skin that comes with habit of facing other players and the realisation that, all in all, losing or winning isn't very important (once you have won/lost 100 times, you understand this).
The real PvP veterans just keep quiet to themselves rather than barking orders left, right and centre - or are polite about it when asked.
The one thing most people seem to forget is that how people play pvp depends upon their adjustment of their environment. In other words give players time to adjust. All i can say is that cyrodill offers the best pvp surroundings next to daoc to date, except maybe darkfall which was an awesome game. What the players do with it is another thing.
At first players will zerg around keeps. Why wouldnd they ? They go where the action is. After that the cycle begins and over time many sorts of pvp situations will develop in many area's of the huge zone. Group vs group, solo's ganking other solo's etc etc. At least those are the possibilities cyrodill offers but like i said its Always up to the player. If anything then blame the player, not the game.
From what i remember daoc pvp playerdevelopment took plenty time too.
Ofcourse it Always depends on what all classes can do, for instance how easy or hard it is for a defended keep to be taken , how willing a player is to defend etc etc.
Its silly to scream its not like daoc at all. It might not play like it, yet, but the environment is there to for the players to offer the same experience daoc offered players. The implemented system is like daoc, no doubt about that.
Daoc also had other incentives to play in the pvp zone like xping with a group etc. I have no clue what cyrodill offers in that regard except that from what i understand they have pve quests ?
It could just be that players are to spoilled, to trained towards zerg and instanced pvp nowadays. Daoc in its time offered something completely new and pvp wasnt really a thing yet from what i can remember except maybe games like uo etc. Past gaming experiences also influences how players approach a new form of pvp.
Cyrodill offers a great pvp experience but give it time for players to know its full potential and adjust.
you can simply make far more points ganking supply routes in the hinterland in samll groups than you can in the zerg. skilled players where all over the place in these few days already. i had numerous 1v1 and 2vX and numbers did NOT mean everything, if anything at all. sadly im not one of the very skilled players, so i died a lot - and still it was fun. the environment is near perfect for any kind of pvp + the missions are incentive even for zergers to go off the track sometimes.
I really think that the most important part is to keep the zergers satisfied - if those are happy, every other kind of pvp can easily emerge, as we feed on zergers
edit: on the "how to see the enemy": every enemy has a sign with rank and colour of Alliance above his head. there is no chance you can miss who is who.
edit 2: whats not discussed often: i think the sneak mechanic available for everyone is a big plus for small scale pvp.
I will say I was on the fence being my first beta weekend. There were many things along the way that were making me think this game would be a pass for me. Let me first say that I am a huge ES fan and up until last night I wasn't planning on playing. I honestly struggled to get to lvl 10. Some of the bosses for lvl 8 quests were just too much for me to take on and I died more times in this game than any other mmo I've played in such a short timeframe. Then it happened I hit level 10 and on the last day I finally saw the light. This game will be the mecca for PVPers. I haven't felt so much thrill in combat since my days keep sieging in Warhammer. How they fit so many people on one screen was quite amazing. People just everywhere. At level 10 I actually got in a solo battle with a lvl 22 and gave them a run for there money. There was just a complete epic feeling to Cryodiil. If you didn't go there, then your missing the point. I also love all the zerg comments. Yes it does happen but man i spent a lot of time just sneaking around by myself being a solo assasin and making small skirmishes. Then I found a guy and followed him around for like 10-15 minutes. We killed a guy going solo. Then he gets kind of far ahead of me running and he gets jumped by 3 people. I tried to save him but we both end up respawning. Then latter on I found a smal group of like 4 or 5 of us stealth around a keep and picking people off. I really felt like there was a good amount of opportunity for small battles which was one thing I was concerned with. I was pleasantly suprised that in between rounds of heading for the main objective if you go off the beat in path theres so much else going on.
The map in general is a virtual copy of DAOC's New Frontier's, if you think people won't be soloing or small manning you didn't play DAOC.
Also taking a keep with siege and what not and then leaving is pointless, Because keeps don't repair automatically, you have to actually fix them back up after taking them.
There are also Realm abilities...Some of them are actually really good... But there is a limited number of them.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
I've put about 14 hours into EOS PvP now and this definitely sums up the PvP for me. The combat itself, as in character control and skills, is fantastic, but this PvP system is incredibly boring. Zerg here, now zerg there, now go back and zerg here again. An individual player or even a small group can have no significant impact on the outcome. Then add to that there is nothing to lose by dying and virtually nothing significant to gain by killing, and you have one of the least exciting, least meaningful PvP experiences to come out in an MMO.
Which is a shame because I really wanted to like ESO. I LOVE the combat, the graphics/sound are great, the skill system and world are great. But if this PvP system is the only PvP to be found in the game, it doesn't merit a box+sub for me.
killquest gains/capture quest/ Defending quest, gives you actually good rewards for pvping. Only bad point you gotta keep porting back to deliever them. I tried to pvp+ craft the items which i earned from it to metals, which I used to level my blacksmith
When Matt Firror decided you can play any race in any faction....the whole rational for AVA was destroyed.
Now AVA is just a game between people playing a game on their computer.Any semblance of immersion...for me..is gone.
Personally I don't see that changing the faction identity too much. It is pushing the lore a little, but all the tamriel races have people living in foreign lands to some extent. There is no reason why they can't fight for the faction they prefer, especially since these factions are pretty loose alliances created by circumstances. Khajit in Aldemeri, Orcs in Daggerfall and the entire Ebonheart have a lot of tension between themselves.
I haven't played DAOC, but I have experienced PVP in many other games and so far I like PVP in ESO. Is there zerging? yes, but how many PVP games don't have some form of zerging? Even with all its faults I liked Warhammers PVP the best. There was zerging, but it didn't always mean the biggest zerg won. Many times a small group of us would successfully defend a keep against a much larger force. I have seen the same thing in ESO as well.
Bottom line, if you enjoy it then who cares, if not, don't play it and waste your time or anyone else's in the game.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here zerg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abandons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Comments
I disagree with all of this, being that these statements could only be true in the broadest of sense. ESO AvA is a much better product, simple as that.
They do have realm points. Just not realm abilities.
I've seen some videos of it, RvR looks very slow - I haven't seen anything convincing so far.
I will have to see for myself, but I'm rather cautious.
Why? Because of what? For me, as stated on previous page, GW2 PvP was meaningless, zerg it, go to next, repeat. Can spend couple hours defending keeps etc, and then over night some Deutch guild can take it away form you without even a fight.
How AvA in ESO is in your opinion better than GW2?
I said this long ago. DAoC still had best PVP up until now, ESO will take the throne, or will I .
Red glow, pretty difficult I know.
To be honest, even in a massive Zerg fight in Daoc, there was no time to look if this guy in front of you is now a hibbie or a mid. If there were zergs of 50v50v50, there was just chaos and carnage. And it was "kill or get killed"
The x-teamings you mean, have been decided before the actual fights. For example you would attack the south keep while the hibs would attacked the north keep. So, in ESO it will be the same. Look at the map, watch those crossed painted swords and fall them in the back
Hodor!
I've put about 14 hours into EOS PvP now and this definitely sums up the PvP for me. The combat itself, as in character control and skills, is fantastic, but this PvP system is incredibly boring. Zerg here, now zerg there, now go back and zerg here again. An individual player or even a small group can have no significant impact on the outcome. Then add to that there is nothing to lose by dying and virtually nothing significant to gain by killing, and you have one of the least exciting, least meaningful PvP experiences to come out in an MMO.
Which is a shame because I really wanted to like ESO. I LOVE the combat, the graphics/sound are great, the skill system and world are great. But if this PvP system is the only PvP to be found in the game, it doesn't merit a box+sub for me.
Hmmm that doesnt sound too good.
Iam pretty sure there will be symbols over the head of enemy players to identify them.
ESO RvR is seriously like GW2 RvR, on a bigger scale though (bigger castles, longer distances). Anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves, and nobody has (so far) brought any other reason "I don't know, it just is different... you've got to try it to understand" so I'd be cautious with these comments.
There are more similarities than differences to be honest. Not that this is a bad thing, I'm sure GW2 RvR can be improved but it is a great model to follow.
From what I gather, the options for "crowd control" in ESO are much more limited though (no wards, no walls projectile for reflection, no mass teleports, etc. - Guardian, Mesmer in GW2) - maybe there are skills I don't know about.
Two massive, massive, massive pluses I see:
- The size of the zone seems to be way bigger than in GW2, and is only one zone. I think this is much better personally, but then it takes ages to go from one keep to another keep. Will the mounts help? Possibly.
- Every class can stealth by crouching (as far as I understand the mechanics). This is huge. I can imagine entire groups being invisible to the enemy. Actually possibly game breaking. But this is good for people who play tanks, etc. to be able to jump on their enemies unseen instead of being constantly jumped on.
My suggestion would be: follow a group (or better, get an invite in a group, but by just following you can be asocial, so no need to talk to anyone, and you can roam freely). If 100 people go in one direction, it might be 100 idiots, but at least they stand a chance against another bunch of idiots.
I find PvE much more intimidating personally, having to "know" everything about an encounter before (where to stand, when, what to do, how) is much more work than I can put into an MMO - especially as I like to explore and discover freely, not having to read a freaking 100 pages manual about the perfect timing on encounters.
PvP works great in that respect, as knowing enough about the class and other classes (basically playing the game) should be enough to get you going. Then there is the thick skin that comes with habit of facing other players and the realisation that, all in all, losing or winning isn't very important (once you have won/lost 100 times, you understand this).
The real PvP veterans just keep quiet to themselves rather than barking orders left, right and centre - or are polite about it when asked.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The one thing most people seem to forget is that how people play pvp depends upon their adjustment of their environment. In other words give players time to adjust. All i can say is that cyrodill offers the best pvp surroundings next to daoc to date, except maybe darkfall which was an awesome game. What the players do with it is another thing.
At first players will zerg around keeps. Why wouldnd they ? They go where the action is. After that the cycle begins and over time many sorts of pvp situations will develop in many area's of the huge zone. Group vs group, solo's ganking other solo's etc etc. At least those are the possibilities cyrodill offers but like i said its Always up to the player. If anything then blame the player, not the game.
From what i remember daoc pvp playerdevelopment took plenty time too.
Ofcourse it Always depends on what all classes can do, for instance how easy or hard it is for a defended keep to be taken , how willing a player is to defend etc etc.
Its silly to scream its not like daoc at all. It might not play like it, yet, but the environment is there to for the players to offer the same experience daoc offered players. The implemented system is like daoc, no doubt about that.
Daoc also had other incentives to play in the pvp zone like xping with a group etc. I have no clue what cyrodill offers in that regard except that from what i understand they have pve quests ?
It could just be that players are to spoilled, to trained towards zerg and instanced pvp nowadays. Daoc in its time offered something completely new and pvp wasnt really a thing yet from what i can remember except maybe games like uo etc. Past gaming experiences also influences how players approach a new form of pvp.
Cyrodill offers a great pvp experience but give it time for players to know its full potential and adjust.
you can simply make far more points ganking supply routes in the hinterland in samll groups than you can in the zerg. skilled players where all over the place in these few days already. i had numerous 1v1 and 2vX and numbers did NOT mean everything, if anything at all. sadly im not one of the very skilled players, so i died a lot - and still it was fun. the environment is near perfect for any kind of pvp + the missions are incentive even for zergers to go off the track sometimes.
I really think that the most important part is to keep the zergers satisfied - if those are happy, every other kind of pvp can easily emerge, as we feed on zergers
edit: on the "how to see the enemy": every enemy has a sign with rank and colour of Alliance above his head. there is no chance you can miss who is who.
edit 2: whats not discussed often: i think the sneak mechanic available for everyone is a big plus for small scale pvp.
When Matt Firror decided you can play any race in any faction....the whole rational for AVA was destroyed.
Now AVA is just a game between people playing a game on their computer.Any semblance of immersion...for me..is gone.
I agree this was a bad decision, but it's still the best mmo pvp I've seen or experienced in a long LONG time.
They already thought of this. It is simple to identify the other alliances. You know exactly who you are attacking at any time.
~Im not what I am~
The map in general is a virtual copy of DAOC's New Frontier's, if you think people won't be soloing or small manning you didn't play DAOC.
Also taking a keep with siege and what not and then leaving is pointless, Because keeps don't repair automatically, you have to actually fix them back up after taking them.
There are also Realm abilities...Some of them are actually really good... But there is a limited number of them.
killquest gains/capture quest/ Defending quest, gives you actually good rewards for pvping. Only bad point you gotta keep porting back to deliever them. I tried to pvp+ craft the items which i earned from it to metals, which I used to level my blacksmith
Personally I don't see that changing the faction identity too much. It is pushing the lore a little, but all the tamriel races have people living in foreign lands to some extent. There is no reason why they can't fight for the faction they prefer, especially since these factions are pretty loose alliances created by circumstances. Khajit in Aldemeri, Orcs in Daggerfall and the entire Ebonheart have a lot of tension between themselves.
I haven't played DAOC, but I have experienced PVP in many other games and so far I like PVP in ESO. Is there zerging? yes, but how many PVP games don't have some form of zerging? Even with all its faults I liked Warhammers PVP the best. There was zerging, but it didn't always mean the biggest zerg won. Many times a small group of us would successfully defend a keep against a much larger force. I have seen the same thing in ESO as well.
Bottom line, if you enjoy it then who cares, if not, don't play it and waste your time or anyone else's in the game.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here zerg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abandons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.