enabling coat of arms upper enemy healtbar is must have option in pvp.. i want this feature for party and guild members to.. this is only one feature what i realy need in this game...
It's easy to know factions apart, set enemy play lifebar always on. Go for the red bars and kill.
It's easy: the people who are standing in line next to you are your own faction, the guys you see keeping just enough distance to not be hit by a bow/spell/pull are the foes.
Originally posted by kosac enabling coat of arms upper enemy healtbar is must have option in pvp.. i want this feature for party and guild members to.. this is only one feature what i realy need in this game...
Help me understand, I can enable healthbar to see my enemy and they can see me if they have that option on,, but will sneek hide my big red healthbar over my head to the enemy if I use it?
It seems to me that all the people that complain about zerges were the ones following the zerg. The zone is huge. Did you take your time of exploring it ? Do you know all the chokepoints/area's already where stealth will be hanging out or where groups vs group combat will form ? Did you yourself form a small band or go solo and pick off people rushing to defend ?
Probably not. What people do most of the time when they want to check out pvp they go where the action is. Like you probably did.
What i dont understand is that people cant reason well enough to know things need to develop like they do in any other game with large scale pvp.
Also even though daoc had its group vs group combat which many loved and solo's picking off solo's in stealth etc what daoc was also about was invasions and defending them off. Large zerges that enter your realm, or you theirs, and from there on you had incredibly cool large epic fights all over the place. I for one loved those epic battles and i know many others did.
The point is that cyrodill, like frontiers, offers wide open spaces for all kinds of fights. Even a zerg fight looks awesome with people scattered all over the place on a wide open field. Its like watching armies clash.
Over time people will look for fights on bridges and what not and groups vs group combat will form.
What i really dont get is that its beyond many people's reasoning capabilities to see what cyrodill opertunity wise. They see zerges fighting over keep and come to the simple conclusion itll just be zerg combat. And this in a zone thats so big that if you want you''ll be pvping all day without seeing a single zerg ever. But no they just see the zerg and come to a simple conclusion.
Where there's zerges there's people rushing to defend and thus people to be picked off and killed.
Besides that .... what do you expect ? Cyrodill is about who owns what keeps. Like daoc's frontiers was.
Dont blame the game. Blame mentality of the players including your own. Daoc's success was because of player's mentality. lets just hope cyrodill will form the same mentality.
Daoc started out with looking for fights near the portal keeps, zerg vs zerg.Even though over time it developed into something more then that but in the end it was Always zerg vs zerg. We invade your homeland with massive numbers and you invade ours. Without it groups would Always be looking for other groups in the same area. Its all connected and each pvp component needs the other.
It's easy to know factions apart, set enemy play lifebar always on. Go for the red bars and kill.
And why didnt they implement player names above those health bars ?
Was it to reduce lag ?
Can this potentially be rectified with an Add On ?
Knowing who it is that has or is trying to kill you (especially outside the zerg) is hugely important to PVP.
One of my first non MUD RPGs was Legend of Mir 2.
In Legend of Mir 2 there were no factions but you could be killed and would drop a % of the items you wore or had in your bags if you were killed.
There were safe zones in cities and a system of turning your character brown or red. brown was if you had attacked another player who wasnt a criminal (red) but they hadnt died.
A red character had killed several other players who were not brown and was thus deemed a pker. A certain amount iof time had to pass without pking to go back to normal.
They were not allowed in cities and thus had no safe zones.
Later they implemented a prison zone which was camped like mad.
Red players pretty much dropped everything they were carrying and most of their gear if killed.
Players had teleportation scrolls which would teleport you to a safe zone or a random location in the zone. So if you were attacked you could hit one of these and get away. you might find you landed in some mobs though and die so using them wasnt without risk either.
Red players using teleport scrolls could land in cities or next to npcs who would kill them instantly.
In this system you didnt want to die. Killing was fun and had risks as well as reward.
You had to decide to wear your best gear and risk loosing it or relying on skill with lower quality gear.
You could end up being in prison for months if you killed enough players.
People could land next to after using teleportation scrolls and die dropping good gear you could use or sell.
Most of you are forgetting that the keeps will be where the guilds will have to setup their stores.
So basically, endless castle flipping GW2 style will not happen once people set their minds on tactics and of course their income.
Zergs will be around, but i sense that there will be more consequences for a guild to leave their keep unattended to go out on a herp derp zerg trying to grab a defended keep.
Last beta zergs were allover the place but that was due to people wanting to learn the map and trying everything that was new.
Most of you are forgetting that the keeps will be where the guilds will have to setup their stores.
So basically, endless castle flipping GW2 style will not happen once people set their minds on tactics and of course their income.
Zergs will be around, but i sense that there will be more consequences for a guild to leave their keep unattended to go out on a herp derp zerg trying to grab a defended keep.
Last beta zergs were allover the place but that was due to people wanting to learn the map and trying everything that was new.
Well this happened in Warhammer. I ran the largest guild in the world shortly after release with the cap of 500 players if I remember correctly.
What happens is at night another Guild comes and takes "your" keep.
So you try recruit a night team a 24hr guild with loose rules and expectations to try and encourage members to fight and play around some common activities that means your guild adds value for members and is fun.
Then you find out that a team of 4 can kite the boss .. so a team of 4 can take the keep in minutes.
Not many players want to do guard duty at 4 am with no reward for doing so even if they could be on at 4 am.
All very well saying ambush people. Thats fine too until you realise you get more in the zerg and the zerg will often zerg down your nice little ambush spot.
You made PVE a solo enterprise with max of 4 players in a group for dungeons.
All of a sudden we expect a large % of the playerbase - who are in five guilds btw - to become capable willing team members that can take orders and follow them through.
It isnt going to happen.
i can see small guilds developing to do certain organised pvp events but holding them together if the rest of the game is crap or unbalanced and exploitable will not be easy.
Most players dont give a toss about anyone other than themselves and you cant blame them when game mechanics have evolved to reward solo play.
Having a guild auction house wont matter to most of these players or at least having one all the time. Making a PVE player go to a PVP zone to use an auction house wont work either. Why should PVP players play to keep auction houses open for PVE players that dont put in the work to win keeps in pvp to have guild auction houses in the first place ?
Guilds will offer them to players simply to be large guilds but there is no payoff for anyone really. Solo pve players that join large guilds get lots of benefits for doing nothing. They would stupid to join a small guild and have a tinby % of those benefits and have obligations to "work" for the leadership or team mates. They will take the path of least effort for them.
Oh and of course (ofc) i am in 5 guilds with chars in different factions and a load of different "instances" or "phases" of cryodil or whever it is called ! So a guild will be split across multiple instances and anything you try and organise (like a nice ambush spot) can when it matters be given away by a member of your guild swapping over to another guild it is a member of and giving info away.
When your in a massive zerg about to take a boss/keep wit ha chance of a reward.. .why leave and join a small "ambush" group ? It may happen with tight nit groups of friends but not with a majority..
I am not really understanding how people can expect AvA to be like in a few beta weeekends. The last couple of beta sessions have been limited weekend game play. AvA in ESO beta is nothing like we will see once the game goes live. Currently it is just follow the guy ahead of you who is following the guy ahead of him who is following the guy ahead of him. All I did was look for a fight on a map and go there.
Strategy in a beta weekend? Seriously? I had chat turned off most of the time due to how toxic it was and when I was on the tab with zone chat I could care less who was trying to command and what they were saying. I was following the guy ahead of me who was following the 30 guys ahead of him. I wanted quick combat and to check out the game play for during my limited time. I wanted to see if I like the class I am playing vs another class.
Defending? really, no. Unless there a big fight already there. Who cares if we lost the keep on a beta weekend? I didn't because I didn't know the people I was AvA with.
The people I will be playing with in AvA aren't even there yet. My guild? The 20 of us in beta, only 2 had carry over characters and only us two were in AvA. Commanders and guilds who will help develop strategy for a campaign? Not there yet. If so in a shell of what they will be after weeks and weeks of ESO. My 4, 8, 12 man roaming guild groups? Not there yet. Guild alliances in one voice application? Not there yet.
GW2WvWvW is probably the worst RvR there is. Does anybody try to keep reinforcements out of towers and keeps? No. It is a DPS door/Wall race. The GW2 maps are so small it is a clock face rotation around a map. A zerg can be anwhere on the map in a minute. With nobody having any strategy or map coordination in ESOAvA still felt way more like Warhammer then WvW.
GW2zerg is all about stacking and one button mashing. Very lame. AvA will not be about stacking because you are not stacking might and stability on each other. Zerg fights were spread out allowing lots of small group fighting all over the place. Small organized 4 mans were actually guarding paths and keeping all of us 99% unorganized people from getting back to the action. AvA looks to be way more voice app focus firing then running around AoEing in a 25 stacked might group. Plus one person with a stun ultimate in crouch can stun a whole zerg who is trying to stack on each other.
The GW2WvWrs are going to have a hard time in AvA because all they know is to stack and roll as one. As people figure out AvA and group synergy trying to stack might groups will fail and everything behind them will be turning colors. Alliances will learn 6 groups of 12 moving behind lines will have much more success taking territory then one group of 50. If map chat calls out the location of a zerg a 12 man group can just go into crouch mode and let the zerg pass. Go hit the keep zerg because we have 8 x 12mans rolling in your territory. Heck just have a few people with ultimate stun abilities and stealth/crouch can troll the stacked zerg. I really do think fighting will not be bunched to avoid getting hammered by ultimates.
Once people are paying for the sub and guilds trying to establish stores in keeps and AvA reputations we'll see how AvA really is. As for now it is just pew pew as much as possible in the few hours weekend betas allow us. Nothing is permanent in beta and people/guilds who care about commanding don't care if they succeed in their three hour beta session.
People just followed the person in front of them who followed the person infront of them who followed the person infront of them who followed the person infront of them and then claimed. This is GW2 reskinned without noticing they just zerged around.
As the poster below me said, AvA is a mess right now and we just goofing.
Obviously RvR will feel like a disorganized mob when you are a solo player in a beta weekend.
There are 2 huge reasons why ESO's RVR is in a better state than GW2:
1) The map is extremely large.
If 1 faction takes a huge zerg across the map, the 3rd faction will easily swoop in and take their territory which is exactly what happens in Planetside 1 and 2 and DAOC.
This didn't work in GW2 because the maps were so small that a zerg could be anywhere in one minute.
The other awesome thing about huge maps is that it opens up room for small scale group vs. group pvp. Even if your realm is heavily outnumbered, elite groups can still maneuver around and deal serious damage behind enemy lines.
2) There is an endgame objective
In DAOC each realm had relics that the other realms could steal like Merlin's staff / Thor's Hammer. This provided an incentive to make sure the home front was protected.
Planetside 2 and GW2 both failed hard in this regard. PS2 has no overall objective at all, while the GW2 ranking system was only relevant for the first few months before all the major alliances got bored and left.
In ESO you can become emperor which provides an incentive to protect your lands since running from keep to keep will eventually leave your flank vulnerable.
Ninja-capping in the middle of the night is an issue that no mass-pvp mmo can solve. It is the price for having a persistent world. The alternative is a system like Battlefield 4 based on short-term matches that begin and end within a set time frame.
I would argue that this style of system if far more meaningless than zerg-based pvp since in the end nothing matters because nothing is persistent.
I am not really understanding how people can expect AvA to be like in a few beta weeekends. The last couple of beta sessions have been limited weekend game play. AvA in ESO beta is nothing like we will see once the game goes live. Currently it is just follow the guy ahead of you who is following the guy ahead of him who is following the guy ahead of him. All I did was look for a fight on a map and go there.
Strategy in a beta weekend? Seriously? [...]
Created an account to type " ^this ".
You simply cannot compare GW2 WvWvW to ESO RvR.
What GW2 does wrong:
1) The "feeling" of WvW. Its not epic. Its laggy, its way too much particle effects, its too cartoonish for something of these proportions. The whole points of RvR is to make it feel like armies fighting eachother, evoke this feeling of epicness. GW2 just fails with the design of the zone/the spells/with everything. You just cant take it seriously.
2) Waypoints. You can tp yourself to the defense of a keep instantly. You cant tp directly to a keep under attack, but you are there within a minute regardless, with swiftness. And that works for an ENTIRE ZERG. Theres no punishment for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. This makes punishment for death nonexistent. This makes the reason for defending a keep, apart from the fact that its way too easy because you can get the zerg there instantly, minimal. So what if you get another waypoint, it saves you what, 1 minute of walking time? Who cares.
3) Lack of viability for small groups. Why would you ever make a small group in GW2? You can tp the zerg to defense in a minute if needed, you clear all the content way faster, you can stack more buffs, theres no downside to it.
How ESO handles these things:
1) W o w. I've never played an MMO where PvP feels this epic. The zone, the artstyle, the performance of the engine, the LIGHTING, oh my god does Cyrodiil feel amazing. My jaw literally dropped when I first saw the nightsky being lit up by dozens of trebuchets firing at a keep with the 2 moons in the sky. No overdone spelleffects, no lag, no silly comic-bloom-huffypuffy atmosphere. Epicness done right.
2) Dear god do you have to walk for a LONG TIME if you die. 5 minutes is the shortest distance you can hope for, and thats an outpost if you have the keep right next to it. Going into enemy territory - thats 10minutes+ of walking and potentially being ambushed if you arent careful. And mounts arent a whole lot faster people, 25% increase is the fastest that was available. This makes defending a keep much more difficult as well, since you cant just tp instantly, even to the keep that makes it an at least 5 minute run, no, you have to be INSIDE of an UNCONTESTED keep to tp ANYWHERE on the map. You are attacking a keep? You wont be in time to defend on that is being attacked, unless its getting defended. And defending keeps is EXTREMELY important - you need a connected line of keeps to respawn at one. You take 3 keeps in enemy territory, but dont defend the little outpost that is connecting 2 of them and can be taken by a rather small group? Boom, you spawn all the way in your territory and that can be T H I R T Y minutes of running if you were at the enemies scroll!! Talk about punishment for death... Furthermore, you need all keeps in enemy territory leading up to their scroll to capture it (it gives a BIG buff for you and takes away the buff for the enemy) and all 6 keeps around cyrodiil to have an emperor (and probably some other amazing stuff that we dont know about yet) which gives amazing buffs and abilities to your forces. STRATEGY and DEFENSE is required, or you spend your time WALKING to the frontlines, and being KILLED by SMALL groups hiding in stealth.
3) No huge red glowing nametags here for you to see your enemies from 100 miles away. Stealth is name of the game for small groups. You can hide from zergs, scout out zergs (which is extremely important because of point 2, if you scout well you can actually defend and adapt to what your enemy is doing and outmaneuver them!!), take essential outposts that are needed for the respawn-link in small groups and you seem to get more alliancepoints that you can spend for siege-gear, equipment, you name it. I think the points get split among all players contributing to a kill/capture, since I got huge chunks of them when i killed someone solo. Furthermore, there is a limit to how many siegeweapons you can build for attack and defense of a keep. I wont name the exact number, but its smaller than full raid. The rest of zerg then has the choice between standing around doing nothing, since most NPCs are inside the inner walls of the keep or unreachable ON them, or splitting up to capture the little mills/farm/mine around the keep, or defending their siegeweapons against enemies. People operating the weapons have literally no vision behind them and are sitting ducks to any enemies approaching. No 200 people hammering on a keepdoor like in GW2 here. Plus you seem to get way less alliancepoints for killing and capturing things in a huge zerg and you make yourself extremely vulnerable to attacks of multiple small groups, since it takes so long to go and defend a keep.
They dont make the mistakes of Warhammer either, there is no immediate gear-reward whatsoever for taking a keep. You get a buff and take away said buff from the enemy, you increase your chances of advancing further, you get another spawnpoint on the map and take away one from the enemy. All of these rewards are HUGE, but only for the purpose of achieving a GOAL - taking the enemy scrolls, pushing for Cyrodiil, establishing mapcontrol, etc. Nothing for the individual that couldnt be gained by simply killing other players. The reward is extremely helpful in terms of accomplishing the goal of you alliance. The reason why warhammer turned into zerg-rotation RvR, actually avoiding enemies, was because of the fact that you would get really good LOOT for capturing a keep! Both your forces and the enemies would just run around in a circle farming this loot, avoiding enemy contact.
Having played the awesomeness that was Vanilla WoW Alterac and Southshore pvp, moving on to WAR RvR and coming back to WoW to become a Gladiator and releasing an open-PvP movie in WotLK, i've had my fair share of MMORPG PvP.
I didnt play the first beta weekend of ESO despite being invited, because I thought this game was going to be awful, simply milking the popularity of the ES franchise, just as SWTOR did. I only installed the client for the 2nd beta-event because I had a free weekend after exams and what I found was an amazing PvP experience, the likes of which I've never experienced before. I cant say that this game will be a success in terms of PvP, a lot of it depends on endgame balance. However, the foundation for great RvR as well as small scale PvP within this RvR is there.
And after looking at the cinematic and realizing that its essentially about PvP, as well as the fact that already some abilities differentiate between player and non-player effects, I am hopeful that the PvP in this game will be as good as it can be.
Most of you are forgetting that the keeps will be where the guilds will have to setup their stores.
So basically, endless castle flipping GW2 style will not happen once people set their minds on tactics and of course their income.
Zergs will be around, but i sense that there will be more consequences for a guild to leave their keep unattended to go out on a herp derp zerg trying to grab a defended keep.
Last beta zergs were allover the place but that was due to people wanting to learn the map and trying everything that was new.
AMEN! Someone around here has a brain. CONSEQUENCES is the name of the game, folks. We need more of them, not less. Too much hand holding and convenience at the expense of fun in your typical MMO these days.
Its daoc R vR but they forgot one important imgredient.....
realmpoints
trough PvP in DAoC there was a system to continously keep gaining realmpoints and in the first 3 years noboddy got to max.... Continous progression of a character, no matter how small is important for individual players..
it wasnt there at release, but after a few months when players started leaving because the lack of progression yhey added the system and it worked.... It kept people playing...
Which makes it more like GW2, not DAoC.
No, not even close... In Gw2 i stuck with battlegrounds PvP... Because the rvr pvp never felt right to me in the first place... Must have been how the areas where build and the spelleffects cluttering my whole screen.... For some reason this game comes very close to what i loved from the mechanics of RvR in DAoC...
and i am sure the team will realise soon enough that they need to add a system of endgame character progression... The PvP trees are not really enough to keep people entertained... I am pretty sure they will add something sattisfying when the time is right post release
in the long run, i also hope they add some small group PvP instanced content.... In general those work great as a quick diversion from PvE... Just a quick game or two... Maybe in an adventure setting ...
So why exactly did it feel right? The combat system is nothing like DAoC, CC is nothing like DAoC, leveling is nothing like DAoC, it has no meaningful PvP progresssion. To me it sounds nothing like DAoC. Please explain.
Its indeed hard to explain, my question is simple, did you play it?
well, i did, and it totally surprised me, the combat system fell in its place and it felt like it was build with one single thing in mind... Group based PvP... But i think the things that felt most akin DAoC where the zone design and the fact that spelleffects didnt clutter the whole screen.. And there where offcourse the elder scrolls that have the same function as the relics,... There are also realmranks.. I think the imperial city will be kind of Darkness falls alike...
You reLly need to experience it for yourself, but it just felt more like Daoc then Gw2 has ever felt..
not surprisingly, since some of the core developers come from Daoc, however i agree with you that i cant u derstand why they still have leftsome lessons learned from daoc out of the game....
But I did play it. All players did was mindless zerging, which reminded me much of GW2. The alliance points you get seem more like honor/arena points from WoW than RPS. I don't see how this can come even close to DAoC. It is completely different and not in a good way.
Don't forget it was the 1st 72hrs most people even got to try the PvP waite a few more betas to see how it pans out its way better then GW2 WvWvW ill give it that much
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
Well as long as it s like WARHAMMERs city sieges, it surely will be a success. Lol, one of the worst ideas WARHAMMER had was city sieges. There really wasn t much strategy involved in that either, leading up to the city siege fight itself, the BIGGER ZERG won.
Your stretching it there the city siege was about Farming Kills and running those instances as for bigger zergs? depends how you thinking If a 25 yr old is attacked by a group of 10 yr olds who wins? if the better group goes up against a group of zergling who wins?
Originally posted by Theutus Nothing Better Than Running For 20 Minutes To See Some Action, While People With Pay Gate Horses Pass You...
It's just 15% faster. Not that big deal, imho.
People say the 17k is expensive for an in-game horse but it actually isn't... you just need to figure out how to get the gold. Also I pity the fool who goes into PVP at level 10 and stays there without working on some sort of crafting or guild quest lines.
Someone mentioned Realm points like Daoc, Alliance points in ESO don't really help the character all that much, but anoher form of character advancement would be good, another skill line with a lot more passives.
I myself thought the pvp zone was massive, it looked great, but Is the cap 2000 players each alliance or like 666 players each alliance, cause I remember they said they made it so 200 or so people can be on the screen at once?
Unless they do what GW2 use to do & only draw a certain amount of characters on screen at one time.
My pvp experience since it took me ages to lvl was getting into cyrodil running thought the keep at the entrance then getting to a keep down the road b4 some elf jumped me then killed me, beta time was up.
Another thing they said was each alliance had a cyrodil city that was under there control, cheydinhal was the one that was suppose to be controlled by the Pact, I could not see this at all.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
Well as long as it s like WARHAMMERs city sieges, it surely will be a success. Lol, one of the worst ideas WARHAMMER had was city sieges. There really wasn t much strategy involved in that either, leading up to the city siege fight itself, the BIGGER ZERG won.
Your stretching it there the city siege was about Farming Kills and running those instances as for bigger zergs? depends how you thinking If a 25 yr old is attacked by a group of 10 yr olds who wins? if the better group goes up against a group of zergling who wins?
A lot of these discussions are currently going on at the Camelot Unchained and the 40K Eternal Crusade forums. Whilst ESO AvAvA was enjoyable and reminded me of DaoC there are a few things that ESO still needs:
- A system in which a well organised Alliance is able to hold Keeps over time so you don't get the frustrating "Keep-trading", "Whack-a-Keep" and "3am Caps" that other RvR cetred game had
- Realm Points with long term benefits in AvAvA only
- Realm Pride: Bad decision to open all Alliances to all Races, very bad indeed
They prob need more upgrade investment in the keeps etc, like tiers, so if you do lose it you are pissed because of the time and gold investment. Siege should stick around longer etc, all things that can be changed.
Originally posted by Theutus Nothing Better Than Running For 20 Minutes To See Some Action, While People With Pay Gate Horses Pass You...
1/10, horrible trolling.
Now how about the truth.
There is not pay gate (unless you consider buying the game and subbing a gate), 17,000 gold for a normal horse, and 42,000 gold for a faster horse. Pretty sure I remember the prices right could be slightly off.
Also it's the beta, those prices could be adjusted by launched. You don't pay for gold in game, you earn it from questing and looting stuff. So that is free and just takes time.
Imperial Edition Mount? Guess what, you still get access to mounts just as fast for free. In fact, they have to pay to get their mount, and you get a simular mount for free.
I understand the concerns about the Imperial edition locked race. But if you really think about it, few collectors editions or special editions are worth two shits. You get a statue or something that goes into storage or gets sold later, a art book you never read, a map you get bored of, and pretty much a bunch of filler stuff that isn't worth the price. Look at TOR.
And you usually get items in game. A vanity pet, a mount you will never use, items that don't matter. No exactly worth the price.
At least with this Imperial Edition, collectors edition, whatever you want to call it. You do get something that is lasting and really feels like a collectors edition. Not to mention the usual other collector edition stuff.
I do understand the concerns, I really do get it. However, I think people are used to collectors ediitions being such a crock of bubbling shit, that they are complaining about this.
A pay gate? Complaining people who pay get more stuff? What's next? Broke people complaining about people who buy the game and say that is a pay gate? Want to play completely for free? "I have a issue buying a game, due to content being locked behind it or in this case a race".
People who don't or can't buy the game, can make the same exact complaint. Imagine if you carried that mindset to real life.
"I don't have a job. It's fucking bullshit people with money, get a house, food and a car. I deserve that shit cheap or for free! Because I am alive, I get the same things as them!"
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
Well as long as it s like WARHAMMERs city sieges, it surely will be a success. Lol, one of the worst ideas WARHAMMER had was city sieges. There really wasn t much strategy involved in that either, leading up to the city siege fight itself, the BIGGER ZERG won.
Your stretching it there the city siege was about Farming Kills and running those instances as for bigger zergs? depends how you thinking If a 25 yr old is attacked by a group of 10 yr olds who wins? if the better group goes up against a group of zergling who wins?
A lot of these discussions are currently going on at the Camelot Unchained and the 40K Eternal Crusade forums. Whilst ESO AvAvA was enjoyable and reminded me of DaoC there are a few things that ESO still needs:
- A system in which a well organised Alliance is able to hold Keeps over time so you don't get the frustrating "Keep-trading", "Whack-a-Keep" and "3am Caps" that other RvR cetred game had
- Realm Points with long term benefits in AvAvA only
- Realm Pride: Bad decision to open all Alliances to all Races, very bad indeed
- "Darkness Falls"
Finally concerns that makes sense.
Making Alliances open to all races, was probably due to PVERS complaining about it. On paper it seems okay, "All the other elder scrolls games do this."
However it's a nightmare for PVP. Everyone will pick the Ebonheart Pact, because it's connection to Skyrim. I am expecting Ebonheart Dominance, No faction pride, people will ditch their other factions and roll there.
Even in PVE it doesn't make a lot of sense. I know the stories are different and the starting areas, but what chances do the other non skyrim factions have, without race locks? Why pick them? I am trying to picture a game like WoW, without faction based races. Seems like you'd lose faction flavor. I hope they rethink this.
Realm points are needed.
Something to prevent keep trading, should be installed too. I agree, maybe something like a timer. Not sure.
Comments
Please tell me this, player enemies, can you see there nameplates passively or does the enemy have to be targeted ?
It's easy: the people who are standing in line next to you are your own faction, the guys you see keeping just enough distance to not be hit by a bow/spell/pull are the foes.
Help me understand, I can enable healthbar to see my enemy and they can see me if they have that option on,, but will sneek hide my big red healthbar over my head to the enemy if I use it?
It seems to me that all the people that complain about zerges were the ones following the zerg. The zone is huge. Did you take your time of exploring it ? Do you know all the chokepoints/area's already where stealth will be hanging out or where groups vs group combat will form ? Did you yourself form a small band or go solo and pick off people rushing to defend ?
Probably not. What people do most of the time when they want to check out pvp they go where the action is. Like you probably did.
What i dont understand is that people cant reason well enough to know things need to develop like they do in any other game with large scale pvp.
Also even though daoc had its group vs group combat which many loved and solo's picking off solo's in stealth etc what daoc was also about was invasions and defending them off. Large zerges that enter your realm, or you theirs, and from there on you had incredibly cool large epic fights all over the place. I for one loved those epic battles and i know many others did.
The point is that cyrodill, like frontiers, offers wide open spaces for all kinds of fights. Even a zerg fight looks awesome with people scattered all over the place on a wide open field. Its like watching armies clash.
Over time people will look for fights on bridges and what not and groups vs group combat will form.
What i really dont get is that its beyond many people's reasoning capabilities to see what cyrodill opertunity wise. They see zerges fighting over keep and come to the simple conclusion itll just be zerg combat. And this in a zone thats so big that if you want you''ll be pvping all day without seeing a single zerg ever. But no they just see the zerg and come to a simple conclusion.
Where there's zerges there's people rushing to defend and thus people to be picked off and killed.
Besides that .... what do you expect ? Cyrodill is about who owns what keeps. Like daoc's frontiers was.
Dont blame the game. Blame mentality of the players including your own. Daoc's success was because of player's mentality. lets just hope cyrodill will form the same mentality.
Daoc started out with looking for fights near the portal keeps, zerg vs zerg.Even though over time it developed into something more then that but in the end it was Always zerg vs zerg. We invade your homeland with massive numbers and you invade ours. Without it groups would Always be looking for other groups in the same area. Its all connected and each pvp component needs the other.
And why didnt they implement player names above those health bars ?
Was it to reduce lag ?
Can this potentially be rectified with an Add On ?
Knowing who it is that has or is trying to kill you (especially outside the zerg) is hugely important to PVP.
One of my first non MUD RPGs was Legend of Mir 2.
In Legend of Mir 2 there were no factions but you could be killed and would drop a % of the items you wore or had in your bags if you were killed.
There were safe zones in cities and a system of turning your character brown or red. brown was if you had attacked another player who wasnt a criminal (red) but they hadnt died.
A red character had killed several other players who were not brown and was thus deemed a pker. A certain amount iof time had to pass without pking to go back to normal.
They were not allowed in cities and thus had no safe zones.
Later they implemented a prison zone which was camped like mad.
Red players pretty much dropped everything they were carrying and most of their gear if killed.
Players had teleportation scrolls which would teleport you to a safe zone or a random location in the zone. So if you were attacked you could hit one of these and get away. you might find you landed in some mobs though and die so using them wasnt without risk either.
Red players using teleport scrolls could land in cities or next to npcs who would kill them instantly.
In this system you didnt want to die. Killing was fun and had risks as well as reward.
You had to decide to wear your best gear and risk loosing it or relying on skill with lower quality gear.
You could end up being in prison for months if you killed enough players.
People could land next to after using teleportation scrolls and die dropping good gear you could use or sell.
So a system with no death penalties is inferior.
Most of you are forgetting that the keeps will be where the guilds will have to setup their stores.
So basically, endless castle flipping GW2 style will not happen once people set their minds on tactics and of course their income.
Zergs will be around, but i sense that there will be more consequences for a guild to leave their keep unattended to go out on a herp derp zerg trying to grab a defended keep.
Last beta zergs were allover the place but that was due to people wanting to learn the map and trying everything that was new.
Well this happened in Warhammer. I ran the largest guild in the world shortly after release with the cap of 500 players if I remember correctly.
What happens is at night another Guild comes and takes "your" keep.
So you try recruit a night team a 24hr guild with loose rules and expectations to try and encourage members to fight and play around some common activities that means your guild adds value for members and is fun.
Then you find out that a team of 4 can kite the boss .. so a team of 4 can take the keep in minutes.
Not many players want to do guard duty at 4 am with no reward for doing so even if they could be on at 4 am.
All very well saying ambush people. Thats fine too until you realise you get more in the zerg and the zerg will often zerg down your nice little ambush spot.
You made PVE a solo enterprise with max of 4 players in a group for dungeons.
All of a sudden we expect a large % of the playerbase - who are in five guilds btw - to become capable willing team members that can take orders and follow them through.
It isnt going to happen.
i can see small guilds developing to do certain organised pvp events but holding them together if the rest of the game is crap or unbalanced and exploitable will not be easy.
Most players dont give a toss about anyone other than themselves and you cant blame them when game mechanics have evolved to reward solo play.
Having a guild auction house wont matter to most of these players or at least having one all the time. Making a PVE player go to a PVP zone to use an auction house wont work either. Why should PVP players play to keep auction houses open for PVE players that dont put in the work to win keeps in pvp to have guild auction houses in the first place ?
Guilds will offer them to players simply to be large guilds but there is no payoff for anyone really. Solo pve players that join large guilds get lots of benefits for doing nothing. They would stupid to join a small guild and have a tinby % of those benefits and have obligations to "work" for the leadership or team mates. They will take the path of least effort for them.
Oh and of course (ofc) i am in 5 guilds with chars in different factions and a load of different "instances" or "phases" of cryodil or whever it is called ! So a guild will be split across multiple instances and anything you try and organise (like a nice ambush spot) can when it matters be given away by a member of your guild swapping over to another guild it is a member of and giving info away.
When your in a massive zerg about to take a boss/keep wit ha chance of a reward.. .why leave and join a small "ambush" group ? It may happen with tight nit groups of friends but not with a majority..
I am not really understanding how people can expect AvA to be like in a few beta weeekends. The last couple of beta sessions have been limited weekend game play. AvA in ESO beta is nothing like we will see once the game goes live. Currently it is just follow the guy ahead of you who is following the guy ahead of him who is following the guy ahead of him. All I did was look for a fight on a map and go there.
Strategy in a beta weekend? Seriously? I had chat turned off most of the time due to how toxic it was and when I was on the tab with zone chat I could care less who was trying to command and what they were saying. I was following the guy ahead of me who was following the 30 guys ahead of him. I wanted quick combat and to check out the game play for during my limited time. I wanted to see if I like the class I am playing vs another class.
Defending? really, no. Unless there a big fight already there. Who cares if we lost the keep on a beta weekend? I didn't because I didn't know the people I was AvA with.
The people I will be playing with in AvA aren't even there yet. My guild? The 20 of us in beta, only 2 had carry over characters and only us two were in AvA. Commanders and guilds who will help develop strategy for a campaign? Not there yet. If so in a shell of what they will be after weeks and weeks of ESO. My 4, 8, 12 man roaming guild groups? Not there yet. Guild alliances in one voice application? Not there yet.
GW2 WvWvW is probably the worst RvR there is. Does anybody try to keep reinforcements out of towers and keeps? No. It is a DPS door/Wall race. The GW2 maps are so small it is a clock face rotation around a map. A zerg can be anwhere on the map in a minute. With nobody having any strategy or map coordination in ESO AvA still felt way more like Warhammer then WvW.
GW2 zerg is all about stacking and one button mashing. Very lame. AvA will not be about stacking because you are not stacking might and stability on each other. Zerg fights were spread out allowing lots of small group fighting all over the place. Small organized 4 mans were actually guarding paths and keeping all of us 99% unorganized people from getting back to the action. AvA looks to be way more voice app focus firing then running around AoEing in a 25 stacked might group. Plus one person with a stun ultimate in crouch can stun a whole zerg who is trying to stack on each other.
The GW2 WvWrs are going to have a hard time in AvA because all they know is to stack and roll as one. As people figure out AvA and group synergy trying to stack might groups will fail and everything behind them will be turning colors. Alliances will learn 6 groups of 12 moving behind lines will have much more success taking territory then one group of 50. If map chat calls out the location of a zerg a 12 man group can just go into crouch mode and let the zerg pass. Go hit the keep zerg because we have 8 x 12mans rolling in your territory. Heck just have a few people with ultimate stun abilities and stealth/crouch can troll the stacked zerg. I really do think fighting will not be bunched to avoid getting hammered by ultimates.
Once people are paying for the sub and guilds trying to establish stores in keeps and AvA reputations we'll see how AvA really is. As for now it is just pew pew as much as possible in the few hours weekend betas allow us. Nothing is permanent in beta and people/guilds who care about commanding don't care if they succeed in their three hour beta session.
People just followed the person in front of them who followed the person infront of them who followed the person infront of them who followed the person infront of them and then claimed. This is GW2 reskinned without noticing they just zerged around.
As the poster below me said, AvA is a mess right now and we just goofing.
Obviously RvR will feel like a disorganized mob when you are a solo player in a beta weekend.
There are 2 huge reasons why ESO's RVR is in a better state than GW2:
1) The map is extremely large.
If 1 faction takes a huge zerg across the map, the 3rd faction will easily swoop in and take their territory which is exactly what happens in Planetside 1 and 2 and DAOC.
This didn't work in GW2 because the maps were so small that a zerg could be anywhere in one minute.
The other awesome thing about huge maps is that it opens up room for small scale group vs. group pvp. Even if your realm is heavily outnumbered, elite groups can still maneuver around and deal serious damage behind enemy lines.
2) There is an endgame objective
In DAOC each realm had relics that the other realms could steal like Merlin's staff / Thor's Hammer. This provided an incentive to make sure the home front was protected.
Planetside 2 and GW2 both failed hard in this regard. PS2 has no overall objective at all, while the GW2 ranking system was only relevant for the first few months before all the major alliances got bored and left.
In ESO you can become emperor which provides an incentive to protect your lands since running from keep to keep will eventually leave your flank vulnerable.
Ninja-capping in the middle of the night is an issue that no mass-pvp mmo can solve. It is the price for having a persistent world. The alternative is a system like Battlefield 4 based on short-term matches that begin and end within a set time frame.
I would argue that this style of system if far more meaningless than zerg-based pvp since in the end nothing matters because nothing is persistent.
Created an account to type " ^this ".
You simply cannot compare GW2 WvWvW to ESO RvR.
What GW2 does wrong:
1) The "feeling" of WvW. Its not epic. Its laggy, its way too much particle effects, its too cartoonish for something of these proportions. The whole points of RvR is to make it feel like armies fighting eachother, evoke this feeling of epicness. GW2 just fails with the design of the zone/the spells/with everything. You just cant take it seriously.
2) Waypoints. You can tp yourself to the defense of a keep instantly. You cant tp directly to a keep under attack, but you are there within a minute regardless, with swiftness. And that works for an ENTIRE ZERG. Theres no punishment for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. This makes punishment for death nonexistent. This makes the reason for defending a keep, apart from the fact that its way too easy because you can get the zerg there instantly, minimal. So what if you get another waypoint, it saves you what, 1 minute of walking time? Who cares.
3) Lack of viability for small groups. Why would you ever make a small group in GW2? You can tp the zerg to defense in a minute if needed, you clear all the content way faster, you can stack more buffs, theres no downside to it.
How ESO handles these things:
1) W o w. I've never played an MMO where PvP feels this epic. The zone, the artstyle, the performance of the engine, the LIGHTING, oh my god does Cyrodiil feel amazing. My jaw literally dropped when I first saw the nightsky being lit up by dozens of trebuchets firing at a keep with the 2 moons in the sky. No overdone spelleffects, no lag, no silly comic-bloom-huffypuffy atmosphere. Epicness done right.
2) Dear god do you have to walk for a LONG TIME if you die. 5 minutes is the shortest distance you can hope for, and thats an outpost if you have the keep right next to it. Going into enemy territory - thats 10minutes+ of walking and potentially being ambushed if you arent careful. And mounts arent a whole lot faster people, 25% increase is the fastest that was available. This makes defending a keep much more difficult as well, since you cant just tp instantly, even to the keep that makes it an at least 5 minute run, no, you have to be INSIDE of an UNCONTESTED keep to tp ANYWHERE on the map. You are attacking a keep? You wont be in time to defend on that is being attacked, unless its getting defended. And defending keeps is EXTREMELY important - you need a connected line of keeps to respawn at one. You take 3 keeps in enemy territory, but dont defend the little outpost that is connecting 2 of them and can be taken by a rather small group? Boom, you spawn all the way in your territory and that can be T H I R T Y minutes of running if you were at the enemies scroll!! Talk about punishment for death... Furthermore, you need all keeps in enemy territory leading up to their scroll to capture it (it gives a BIG buff for you and takes away the buff for the enemy) and all 6 keeps around cyrodiil to have an emperor (and probably some other amazing stuff that we dont know about yet) which gives amazing buffs and abilities to your forces. STRATEGY and DEFENSE is required, or you spend your time WALKING to the frontlines, and being KILLED by SMALL groups hiding in stealth.
3) No huge red glowing nametags here for you to see your enemies from 100 miles away. Stealth is name of the game for small groups. You can hide from zergs, scout out zergs (which is extremely important because of point 2, if you scout well you can actually defend and adapt to what your enemy is doing and outmaneuver them!!), take essential outposts that are needed for the respawn-link in small groups and you seem to get more alliancepoints that you can spend for siege-gear, equipment, you name it. I think the points get split among all players contributing to a kill/capture, since I got huge chunks of them when i killed someone solo. Furthermore, there is a limit to how many siegeweapons you can build for attack and defense of a keep. I wont name the exact number, but its smaller than full raid. The rest of zerg then has the choice between standing around doing nothing, since most NPCs are inside the inner walls of the keep or unreachable ON them, or splitting up to capture the little mills/farm/mine around the keep, or defending their siegeweapons against enemies. People operating the weapons have literally no vision behind them and are sitting ducks to any enemies approaching. No 200 people hammering on a keepdoor like in GW2 here. Plus you seem to get way less alliancepoints for killing and capturing things in a huge zerg and you make yourself extremely vulnerable to attacks of multiple small groups, since it takes so long to go and defend a keep.
They dont make the mistakes of Warhammer either, there is no immediate gear-reward whatsoever for taking a keep. You get a buff and take away said buff from the enemy, you increase your chances of advancing further, you get another spawnpoint on the map and take away one from the enemy. All of these rewards are HUGE, but only for the purpose of achieving a GOAL - taking the enemy scrolls, pushing for Cyrodiil, establishing mapcontrol, etc. Nothing for the individual that couldnt be gained by simply killing other players. The reward is extremely helpful in terms of accomplishing the goal of you alliance. The reason why warhammer turned into zerg-rotation RvR, actually avoiding enemies, was because of the fact that you would get really good LOOT for capturing a keep! Both your forces and the enemies would just run around in a circle farming this loot, avoiding enemy contact.
Having played the awesomeness that was Vanilla WoW Alterac and Southshore pvp, moving on to WAR RvR and coming back to WoW to become a Gladiator and releasing an open-PvP movie in WotLK, i've had my fair share of MMORPG PvP.
I didnt play the first beta weekend of ESO despite being invited, because I thought this game was going to be awful, simply milking the popularity of the ES franchise, just as SWTOR did. I only installed the client for the 2nd beta-event because I had a free weekend after exams and what I found was an amazing PvP experience, the likes of which I've never experienced before. I cant say that this game will be a success in terms of PvP, a lot of it depends on endgame balance. However, the foundation for great RvR as well as small scale PvP within this RvR is there.
And after looking at the cinematic and realizing that its essentially about PvP, as well as the fact that already some abilities differentiate between player and non-player effects, I am hopeful that the PvP in this game will be as good as it can be.
AMEN! Someone around here has a brain. CONSEQUENCES is the name of the game, folks. We need more of them, not less. Too much hand holding and convenience at the expense of fun in your typical MMO these days.
Don't forget it was the 1st 72hrs most people even got to try the PvP waite a few more betas to see how it pans out its way better then GW2 WvWvW ill give it that much
Your stretching it there the city siege was about Farming Kills and running those instances as for bigger zergs? depends how you thinking If a 25 yr old is attacked by a group of 10 yr olds who wins? if the better group goes up against a group of zergling who wins?
wut?
It's just 15% faster. Not that big deal, imho.
People say the 17k is expensive for an in-game horse but it actually isn't... you just need to figure out how to get the gold. Also I pity the fool who goes into PVP at level 10 and stays there without working on some sort of crafting or guild quest lines.
Sprinting without the horse is still faster and you can keep that up much longer if you are a stamina build
Someone mentioned Realm points like Daoc, Alliance points in ESO don't really help the character all that much, but anoher form of character advancement would be good, another skill line with a lot more passives.
I myself thought the pvp zone was massive, it looked great, but Is the cap 2000 players each alliance or like 666 players each alliance, cause I remember they said they made it so 200 or so people can be on the screen at once?
Unless they do what GW2 use to do & only draw a certain amount of characters on screen at one time.
My pvp experience since it took me ages to lvl was getting into cyrodil running thought the keep at the entrance then getting to a keep down the road b4 some elf jumped me then killed me, beta time was up.
Another thing they said was each alliance had a cyrodil city that was under there control, cheydinhal was the one that was suppose to be controlled by the Pact, I could not see this at all.
A lot of these discussions are currently going on at the Camelot Unchained and the 40K Eternal Crusade forums. Whilst ESO AvAvA was enjoyable and reminded me of DaoC there are a few things that ESO still needs:
- A system in which a well organised Alliance is able to hold Keeps over time so you don't get the frustrating "Keep-trading", "Whack-a-Keep" and "3am Caps" that other RvR cetred game had
- Realm Points with long term benefits in AvAvA only
- Realm Pride: Bad decision to open all Alliances to all Races, very bad indeed
- "Darkness Falls"
1/10, horrible trolling.
Now how about the truth.
There is not pay gate (unless you consider buying the game and subbing a gate), 17,000 gold for a normal horse, and 42,000 gold for a faster horse. Pretty sure I remember the prices right could be slightly off.
Also it's the beta, those prices could be adjusted by launched. You don't pay for gold in game, you earn it from questing and looting stuff. So that is free and just takes time.
Imperial Edition Mount? Guess what, you still get access to mounts just as fast for free. In fact, they have to pay to get their mount, and you get a simular mount for free.
I understand the concerns about the Imperial edition locked race. But if you really think about it, few collectors editions or special editions are worth two shits. You get a statue or something that goes into storage or gets sold later, a art book you never read, a map you get bored of, and pretty much a bunch of filler stuff that isn't worth the price. Look at TOR.
And you usually get items in game. A vanity pet, a mount you will never use, items that don't matter. No exactly worth the price.
At least with this Imperial Edition, collectors edition, whatever you want to call it. You do get something that is lasting and really feels like a collectors edition. Not to mention the usual other collector edition stuff.
I do understand the concerns, I really do get it. However, I think people are used to collectors ediitions being such a crock of bubbling shit, that they are complaining about this.
A pay gate? Complaining people who pay get more stuff? What's next? Broke people complaining about people who buy the game and say that is a pay gate? Want to play completely for free? "I have a issue buying a game, due to content being locked behind it or in this case a race".
People who don't or can't buy the game, can make the same exact complaint. Imagine if you carried that mindset to real life.
"I don't have a job. It's fucking bullshit people with money, get a house, food and a car. I deserve that shit cheap or for free! Because I am alive, I get the same things as them!"
"What tastes like purple?"
Finally concerns that makes sense.
Making Alliances open to all races, was probably due to PVERS complaining about it. On paper it seems okay, "All the other elder scrolls games do this."
However it's a nightmare for PVP. Everyone will pick the Ebonheart Pact, because it's connection to Skyrim. I am expecting Ebonheart Dominance, No faction pride, people will ditch their other factions and roll there.
Even in PVE it doesn't make a lot of sense. I know the stories are different and the starting areas, but what chances do the other non skyrim factions have, without race locks? Why pick them? I am trying to picture a game like WoW, without faction based races. Seems like you'd lose faction flavor. I hope they rethink this.
Realm points are needed.
Something to prevent keep trading, should be installed too. I agree, maybe something like a timer. Not sure.
"What tastes like purple?"