I would need to spend a lot more money in an F2P game to get all the content than in a P2P game.
So? Don't get all the content .. just enjoy the free part. Problem solved.
If you buy a SP game, do you have to buy all the DLCs, all the expansions, and get all the content? I don't .. and the same applies to f2p games .. i don't need *all* the content to have fun.
I would need to spend a lot more money in an F2P game to get all the content than in a P2P game.
I don't feel like I'm being taking advantage of in P2P. I'm not touching F2P games with a 10 foot pole.
+1 to not touching them with any foot pole, a ten foot pole is too close
Why not, it is not like it is going to cost you anything? unless you are a whale, of course.
That's what crack dealers say also, first hit is always free. :P
No thanks, I want nothing to do with any of them. I don't even open an account to give them the ability to add me in with there bogus 20 mil registered user stats. It is more fun to disagree with people on the forums about them than it is to play them.
There is a reason only one AAA MMO has ever released not as P2P. F2P games are junk short term games made to extract as much money from players before they become bored and leave. P2P games have amuch better chance of beiong quality games built more for long term and endgame. Yes you have many games made for the short term and box sales only releasing with no endgame or long term play like like AoC, SWTOR and EQN. But then you have quality games with developed endgames made for veteran players like Rift and hopefully Wildstar.
OP, the reason we've seen a rise in F2P over the years is because companies realized they could make more money with less development costs. It's cheaper to make a game F2P, and just update it with loot boxes, keys, gambling boxes, etc, than it is to try and compete with World of Warcraft.
That's it.
So yes, we get a "free" game, but it's also a free game that will always lack immersion or long-term development beyond the low hanging gambling box fruit.
That's stupid logic. It's not cheaper to make a F2P game.
Yea and the P2P model around it doesn't guarantee you'll get a better game compared to a F2P model game either. In fact it is the reason why many companies lately demand $ up front for their products and keeping them "NDA" as long as possible rather than allowing players to test it before they know more about it and what they are getting themself involved with.
You know, at worst, buying into a P2P MMO means nothing more than buying into any random new video game. I bought GTA5 for $60. Great game, no regrets. I spent $60 on maybe 20 hours of entertainment. That's $3 per hour. I'll probably play it again at some point, which would bring the rate to $1.50 per hour. Not too bad, really.
I started playing WoW on November 23rd, and have held a subscription ever since. I probably average 30 hours a month (some times more sometimes much less), which is something like $1800 on the game over the last 9.5 years. That means World of Warcraft has provided me with a very steady form of entertainment to the tune of about 50 cents per hour. And best of all, the game is well-funded and well-developed. I may not always like the direction they take it, but at least the continue to provide new direction.
I'd spend $60 in a heartbeat to try a new MMO if it meant having a chance at that kind of quality with that kind of value.
I would need to spend a lot more money in an F2P game to get all the content than in a P2P game.
So? Don't get all the content .. just enjoy the free part. Problem solved.
If you buy a SP game, do you have to buy all the DLCs, all the expansions, and get all the content? I don't .. and the same applies to f2p games .. i don't need *all* the content to have fun.
The problem is that this sort of attitude doesn't pay the bills in an MMO where you expect constant updates and content. If the whole game were made of people like you.... the game would totally crash. People would leave because:
1. The servers would be crap, because no one is being paid to maintain them, because the bills aren't being paid.
2. There would be no bugs fixed, because no one is being paid to fix them, because the bills aren't being paid.
3. There would be no extra content, because no one is being paid to develop them, because the bills aren't being paid.
4. There would be no forum, because no one is being paid to moderate them, because the bills aren't being paid.
5. There would be no balance fixes, because no one is being paid to fix them, because the bills aren't being paid.
6. There would be no anti-cheat, because no one is being paid to monitor hackers, because the bills aren't being paid.
In a F2P game... someone has to pay. And because you obviously don't... that means someone else has to pick up your share. That's why the poster above you has to pay more.
In a Subscription game... everyone pays... or you don't play. It's that simple. It pays the bills and it's fair.
F2P games are a breeding ground for the worst of the trolls to exist in online gaming. It is also a great excuse for the devs to spend their time creating random cash shop crap instead of new content after release. One good thing about Blizzard is they will never allow such F2P crap to take over the market. Pay your $15, you are still getting much more content than you would spending it on a single or online game DLC.
According to your poll. The votes speaks for itself.
If you want the BEST F2P model...just look into AION. You don't have to pay for anything. Even expansions are included. Don't pay for character slots. Don't pay for bag slots. EVERYTHING is free.
So are you playing AION @ OP? If NOT, why aren't you playing the best form of F2P model available?
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Superchieftian Every game that releases from this point forward will be F2P or will go F2P within 3-6 months of release. There is no way around this. This is how it will be.
FFXIV is P2P last I checked.
You are correct. FFXIV, which was released 6 months ago, is P2P.
My argument is that any game that releases from now, as in now now, will fall under F2P eventually.
OP, the reason we've seen a rise in F2P over the years is because companies realized they could make more money with less development costs. It's cheaper to make a game F2P, and just update it with loot boxes, keys, gambling boxes, etc, than it is to try and compete with World of Warcraft.
That's it.
So yes, we get a "free" game, but it's also a free game that will always lack immersion or long-term development beyond the low hanging gambling box fruit.
That's stupid logic. It's not cheaper to make a F2P game.
Yea and the P2P model around it doesn't guarantee you'll get a better game compared to a F2P model game either. In fact it is the reason why many companies lately demand $ up front for their products and keeping them "NDA" as long as possible rather than allowing players to test it before they know more about it and what they are getting themself involved with.
Yeah, exactly. I don't quite trust the NDA policy that's extended for longer than needed. I might be thinking up some sort of conspiracy but you know what; being paranoid about investing my money keeps me from spending money on games that 'fail' as a subscription model.
It's not an investment, its a purchase of entertainment. It all matters on how you spend your entertainment money. If you have a small budget, it would benefit you to wait it out until the price drops. I doubt if a game going free its all of a sudden going to be better though. Good luck
OP, the reason we've seen a rise in F2P over the years is because companies realized they could make more money with less development costs. It's cheaper to make a game F2P, and just update it with loot boxes, keys, gambling boxes, etc, than it is to try and compete with World of Warcraft.
That's it.
So yes, we get a "free" game, but it's also a free game that will always lack immersion or long-term development beyond the low hanging gambling box fruit.
That's stupid logic. It's not cheaper to make a F2P game.
Yea and the P2P model around it doesn't guarantee you'll get a better game compared to a F2P model game either. In fact it is the reason why many companies lately demand $ up front for their products and keeping them "NDA" as long as possible rather than allowing players to test it before they know more about it and what they are getting themself involved with.
Yeah, exactly. I don't quite trust the NDA policy that's extended for longer than needed. I might be thinking up some sort of conspiracy but you know what; being paranoid about investing my money keeps me from spending money on games that 'fail' as a subscription model.
I have no idea why they haven't dropped the NDA yet, but as a Beta player, I can tell you it's not because the game sucks. It's actually pretty fun, despite some flaws, which is why I'm not sure the reason for it to still be up. They're going to get negative press regardless, because that's what people do. Complain.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Superchieftian Every game that releases from this point forward will be F2P or will go F2P within 3-6 months of release. There is no way around this. This is how it will be.
FFXIV is P2P last I checked.
You are correct. FFXIV, which was released 6 months ago, is P2P.
My argument is that any game that releases from now, as in now now, will fall under F2P eventually.
That's not an argument, that would be a prediction.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Superchieftian Every game that releases from this point forward will be F2P or will go F2P within 3-6 months of release. There is no way around this. This is how it will be.
FFXIV is P2P last I checked.
You are correct. FFXIV, which was released 6 months ago, is P2P.
My argument is that any game that releases from now, as in now now, will fall under F2P eventually.
That's not an argument, that would be a prediction.
Opinions/thoughts on these forums are arguments. Where have you been?
I should also say that individual opinions are facts too.
Hello there, my name is Tsumoro and I'll be picking apart your post today.
F2P is the future. It is why we've seen increased F2P over P2P MMO's and other type of games over the last years. Of course what type of F2P system is in place is the most important aspect of the game and this is where most either succeed or fail big.
Bold claim, with no actual figures to back it up. Personally, I think this is more a preference thing than anything else. F2P is certainly successful for a lot of MMO's heck it's saved a good few. But, people are happy paying for a product that gives them value. People consider how much they are being entertained by as a sense of value and as such will pay.
It also differs on what 'you' personally consider to be F2P, do you mean just a game you download and play fully and you fund the game via cosmetic items etc? Because if that's what you mean, I agree. I do not believe games with content locks are F2P. There F2P models are like trials to see whether its worth subbing to. Games like LOTRO, SWTOR and AOC I consider to be content locked trials and games like RIFT, Planetside, Path of Exile I consider to be F2P. This is subjective, open to debate and relevant to the individual on a personal level.
Wouldn't you want to be in charge of spending your $ or be slapped with monthly and expansion fees? Example...
Again, subjective. Do you want to play a game and show support by buying a mount, or forced to spend money to progress.
Typical P2P game charges $60 for game itself + 30 days free and afterwards additional $15 monthly with $40 expansion fee every 1.5-2 years.If the F2P didn't grow in popularity I would never try and enjoy a lot of online games out there, A LOT and to any skeptic that the P2P is still best, ask yourself if you are in the same boat or not.
$60 is a typical game price, in theory you pay only $45 because first month is free, you pay a sub which gives you a months worth of entertainment. I personally believe you make a drastic saving in P2P games you are invested to.
1) You tend to play a game more that you're paying for. Because of this you tend to buy less games to fill your entertainment needs.
2) F2P allows a lot of flexibility but, people tend to buy more for entertainment a month because of this.
No facts of figures here, just personal experience and what ive observed.
Look at the Elder Scroll Online and Wildstar latest examples. They are launching as P2P, but I won't get inolved in them on start because I have no idea in what I'm involving myself since the NDA has existed for too long and I haven't tested the product. Heck, even B2P games like Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World would took some $ of me if I knew in what I'm involving myself to buy the products.
Most games do not have a 'trial' period or a 'demo' to see if you like if you buy. This is why people rely on word of mouth and reviews to help them make a decision if its worth their time. Of course if you've been burned before with a purchase this will make you more careful in future. But, if you are always looking to play a game before buying then you either pirate or just simply play nothing but F2P MMO's.
Todays games require a lot of space as well and not all got unlimited bandwidth usage with their ISP. It doesn't worth for me to download 20 gigs for 2-3 days of gameplay. So yea, those who attempt to go with the P2P model on start will in fact be the ones with the best chance of going F2P in future since they are the ones who fail to attract big audience on the launch of the game.
Not sure on point being made here, a games size is irrelevant to your argument. If a P2P game is 12 gig and a F2P is 12 gig then the poor people with ISP caps or usage fees suffer regardless. If you are saying that F2P games are smaller, then that's not true. You will however find more games for free that are small I give you that, Kingdom of the Mad God for example.
SOE is one of the savvy and smarter companies out there who realize this, which is why they going with the F2P model for Everquest Next. My ideal F2P model would be the one where it charges me $ for content and nothing else. It will be up to me at the end if that content justifies the asking price. In my opinion what they need to do is give that 30 days of free time to any new account and then the player is welcome to decide if they willing to pay $30-60 for the game and continue playing it as a free game until something new is provided that justifies the fee.
I agree, paying for content would be ideal. I like TSW model very much. Shame not many play it enough to break into a great success. However, this does not work for games that fail to engage the audience. Of course none of these games will be able to because no one can download them as they are too big for their ISPs and others refuse to play a game they can't try out. Of course, I am just pulling your chain, I don't believe this. But paid content is always welcome, sadly it gets misused a lot. SOE has been naughty in the past, whether EQN comes with a fair system to play or not. Time will tell but I am not singing my praises quite yet.
The cash shop can be damaging to the game only if the items sold interfere with what the game is already about. So for example if the game already has system in place for acquiring rare pets/mounts or costumes/styles such items cannot be sold. Same goes for boosts to EXP/loot drop % or whatever. Thats part of the game system and cannot be sold for $.
Not true, cash shop is what keeps most these F2P games afloat, pets, mounts and other cosmetics. These buff and exp potions also drive in the bacon like you wouldn't believe. You might not like it, heck I don't like it but people who play casually and earn a good living have no problems buying their way up in levels, or in game because there money exceeds their time to invest. I don't like it, you don't like it but those people essentially pay for the game to keep going.
New content, additional character slots, increased inventory space are some of the acceptable things that can exist within a cash shop. So I gave my two cents why F2P is the future and we've seen a large increase in games going with this model. It gives the players the choice to decide with their $ and save more in the process than a static sub and box fee on the start which is unhelpful at all since we already don't know what exactly are buying.
Agreed, works well for PoE however companies pay professionals to see what would help drive a profit for their game and all that stuff I mentioned above is work brings in the money. They know it casts a stink, but they spin it, they have to. Otherwise game can't pay for itself and they lose their job.
I have no problem with anyone buying up in level, I would prefer they didn't, but if money is no object to you but your a workaholic I can kinda understand that they pay to keep up. The real problem with cash shop is offering items of progression and advancement that are not available elsewhere. Like, buying PvP armour which gives you an edge or PvE gear that harms in game economy.
Here's my answer clear and simple. As a person who spends money in games - P2P is actually a much cheaper route. $15/mo or 50 cents a day is great, budget wise. F2P games nickle and dime me so hard. I typically spend a lot more on a solid F2P game. It sucks. Terrible for my wallet.
One other thing. In MOST cases - P2P games offer everyone the same content as long as they pay for it. Thus creating a more fair game.
Thing is, I have not recalled spending more $ on a F2P compared to P2P in my last 12 years of MMORPG experience and I'm sure many here are in the same boat as well.
YOU may not spend more money, but a lot of people do. Some people leech like crazy and never spend a dime. I have a huge problem with that. There are also a number of reason why it's unfair for people to leech off the system. It breaks the balance in so many ways. When you play on a company hosted server - you should be FORCED to pay something. Servers are not free. Bandwidth is not free. Creating game content is not free. Paying other staff is not free. So please explain why someone should be able to play completely for free.
The only reason F2P works is because they nickle and dime people who don't mind paying, to death. Some people spend 10x the amount of money in F2P in comparison to P2P. A fair and balanced system is P2P. I don't see how that can be argued, but I encourage you to try. Please do not respond with things like "I don't recall". All that really says is you're not sure. That's not an argument. Also you say your 12 years of MMO experience. How long did you commit to one P2P or F2P game? If you've played 100 F2P games for 1 month each then that doesn't say much.
I have no idea why they haven't dropped the NDA yet, but as a Beta player, I can tell you it's not because the game sucks. It's actually pretty fun, despite some flaws, which is why I'm not sure the reason for it to still be up. They're going to get negative press regardless, because that's what people do. Complain.
Oh I don't doubt people are enjoying it. I personally don't want to spend money on a game that's an MMO yet doesn't emphasize on partying. There are a lot of issues I have that I've heard reviewers comment on. The best way I personally can explain it is that the game is torn between Elder Scrolls and an MMO. There are a lot of animation issues and the graphics feel dated for a MMO coming out in 2014. Not to mention the starting tutorial seems to be off-putting for players.
Well, the starting tutorial takes all of 10 minutes to finish, for what that's worth. Grouping up with people is about as common as it is for any other MMO, which means you can choose to go solo or play with friends; your choice. Of course, things like dungeons and some boss mobs require more people, but there's nothing particularly limiting.
Animations are pretty good for all but a few things, as reviewers have pointed out. The run animation is... weird. Not sure how else to describe it. I think combat animations are pretty good, overall though.
I think graphics are great, especially for an MMO. Draw distances seem good, and the art style is refreshingly not cartoony. The environments are really immersive as well. Having said that, playing the game on lower graphics settings does look downright horrid. There's definitely a wide gap between the lowest and highest settings.
What really shines though, is character progression. There seemed to be a real sense of reward as you gain new and more focused/powerful abilities based on the ones you already use regularly, rather than some predetermined chart based on your class. It's when you start unlocking these abilities that you really start to feel like you've progressed.
One thing that I absolutely HATE, however, is the way the UI uses "E" for confirmation when you least expect it. For example, when you create a name for your character, hitting enter doesn't actually confirm it. It just takes the cursor out of the input box. You still have to hit E or click E to confirm. It's really just strange.
Here's my answer clear and simple. As a person who spends money in games - P2P is actually a much cheaper route. $15/mo or 50 cents a day is great, budget wise. F2P games nickle and dime me so hard. I typically spend a lot more on a solid F2P game. It sucks. Terrible for my wallet.
One other thing. In MOST cases - P2P games offer everyone the same content as long as they pay for it. Thus creating a more fair game.
Thing is, I have not recalled spending more $ on a F2P compared to P2P in my last 12 years of MMORPG experience and I'm sure many here are in the same boat as well.
YOU may not spend more money, but a lot of people do. Some people leech like crazy and never spend a dime. I have a huge problem with that. There are also a number of reason why it's unfair for people to leech off the system. It breaks the balance in so many ways. When you play on a company hosted server - you should be FORCED to pay something. Servers are not free. Bandwidth is not free. Creating game content is not free. Paying other staff is not free. So please explain why someone should be able to play completely for free.
The only reason F2P works is because they nickle and dime people who don't mind paying, to death. Some people spend 10x the amount of money in F2P in comparison to P2P. A fair and balanced system is P2P. I don't see how that can be argued, but I encourage you to try. Please do not respond with things like "I don't recall". All that really says is you're not sure. That's not an argument. Also you say your 12 years of MMO experience. How long did you commit to one P2P or F2P game? If you've played 100 F2P games for 1 month each then that doesn't say much.
I'm now going to make a point that hasn't been made before...since the obvious is obvious.
How much does a company spend for ME to play a F2P for F ?
forget all the costs that go into everyone, how much do they spend on me being a +1 free player vs me not being a player at all? They pay for my bandwidth...what else? is it more than $1/mo I wonder?
They don't spend anything. They charge others or cut cost.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Here's my answer clear and simple. As a person who spends money in games - P2P is actually a much cheaper route. $15/mo or 50 cents a day is great, budget wise. F2P games nickle and dime me so hard. I typically spend a lot more on a solid F2P game. It sucks. Terrible for my wallet.
One other thing. In MOST cases - P2P games offer everyone the same content as long as they pay for it. Thus creating a more fair game.
Thing is, I have not recalled spending more $ on a F2P compared to P2P in my last 12 years of MMORPG experience and I'm sure many here are in the same boat as well.
YOU may not spend more money, but a lot of people do. Some people leech like crazy and never spend a dime. I have a huge problem with that. There are also a number of reason why it's unfair for people to leech off the system. It breaks the balance in so many ways. When you play on a company hosted server - you should be FORCED to pay something. Servers are not free. Bandwidth is not free. Creating game content is not free. Paying other staff is not free. So please explain why someone should be able to play completely for free.
The only reason F2P works is because they nickle and dime people who don't mind paying, to death. Some people spend 10x the amount of money in F2P in comparison to P2P. A fair and balanced system is P2P. I don't see how that can be argued, but I encourage you to try. Please do not respond with things like "I don't recall". All that really says is you're not sure. That's not an argument. Also you say your 12 years of MMO experience. How long did you commit to one P2P or F2P game? If you've played 100 F2P games for 1 month each then that doesn't say much.
I'm now going to make a point that hasn't been made before...since the obvious is obvious.
How much does a company spend for ME to play a F2P for F ?
forget all the costs that go into everyone, how much do they spend on me being a +1 free player vs me not being a player at all? They pay for my bandwidth...what else? is it more than $1/mo I wonder?
They don't spend anything. They charge others or cut cost.
People like ME pay for free players. I shouldn't have to. Every person should pay the same or you don't get to play.
Comments
So? Don't get all the content .. just enjoy the free part. Problem solved.
If you buy a SP game, do you have to buy all the DLCs, all the expansions, and get all the content? I don't .. and the same applies to f2p games .. i don't need *all* the content to have fun.
+1 to not touching them with any foot pole, a ten foot pole is too close
Why not, it is not like it is going to cost you anything? unless you are a whale, of course.
That's what crack dealers say also, first hit is always free. :P
No thanks, I want nothing to do with any of them. I don't even open an account to give them the ability to add me in with there bogus 20 mil registered user stats. It is more fun to disagree with people on the forums about them than it is to play them.
There is a reason only one AAA MMO has ever released not as P2P. F2P games are junk short term games made to extract as much money from players before they become bored and leave. P2P games have amuch better chance of beiong quality games built more for long term and endgame. Yes you have many games made for the short term and box sales only releasing with no endgame or long term play like like AoC, SWTOR and EQN. But then you have quality games with developed endgames made for veteran players like Rift and hopefully Wildstar.
F2P is simply for people that do not play MMOs.
You know, at worst, buying into a P2P MMO means nothing more than buying into any random new video game. I bought GTA5 for $60. Great game, no regrets. I spent $60 on maybe 20 hours of entertainment. That's $3 per hour. I'll probably play it again at some point, which would bring the rate to $1.50 per hour. Not too bad, really.
I started playing WoW on November 23rd, and have held a subscription ever since. I probably average 30 hours a month (some times more sometimes much less), which is something like $1800 on the game over the last 9.5 years. That means World of Warcraft has provided me with a very steady form of entertainment to the tune of about 50 cents per hour. And best of all, the game is well-funded and well-developed. I may not always like the direction they take it, but at least the continue to provide new direction.
I'd spend $60 in a heartbeat to try a new MMO if it meant having a chance at that kind of quality with that kind of value.
You make me like charity
The problem is that this sort of attitude doesn't pay the bills in an MMO where you expect constant updates and content. If the whole game were made of people like you.... the game would totally crash. People would leave because:
1. The servers would be crap, because no one is being paid to maintain them, because the bills aren't being paid.
2. There would be no bugs fixed, because no one is being paid to fix them, because the bills aren't being paid.
3. There would be no extra content, because no one is being paid to develop them, because the bills aren't being paid.
4. There would be no forum, because no one is being paid to moderate them, because the bills aren't being paid.
5. There would be no balance fixes, because no one is being paid to fix them, because the bills aren't being paid.
6. There would be no anti-cheat, because no one is being paid to monitor hackers, because the bills aren't being paid.
In a F2P game... someone has to pay. And because you obviously don't... that means someone else has to pick up your share. That's why the poster above you has to pay more.
In a Subscription game... everyone pays... or you don't play. It's that simple. It pays the bills and it's fair.
According to your poll. The votes speaks for itself.
If you want the BEST F2P model...just look into AION. You don't have to pay for anything. Even expansions are included. Don't pay for character slots. Don't pay for bag slots. EVERYTHING is free.
So are you playing AION @ OP? If NOT, why aren't you playing the best form of F2P model available?
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You are correct. FFXIV, which was released 6 months ago, is P2P.
My argument is that any game that releases from now, as in now now, will fall under F2P eventually.
It's not an investment, its a purchase of entertainment. It all matters on how you spend your entertainment money. If you have a small budget, it would benefit you to wait it out until the price drops. I doubt if a game going free its all of a sudden going to be better though. Good luck
I have no idea why they haven't dropped the NDA yet, but as a Beta player, I can tell you it's not because the game sucks. It's actually pretty fun, despite some flaws, which is why I'm not sure the reason for it to still be up. They're going to get negative press regardless, because that's what people do. Complain.
You make me like charity
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
That's not an argument, that would be a prediction.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Opinions/thoughts on these forums are arguments. Where have you been?
I should also say that individual opinions are facts too.
Hello there, my name is Tsumoro and I'll be picking apart your post today.
F2P is the future. It is why we've seen increased F2P over P2P MMO's and other type of games over the last years. Of course what type of F2P system is in place is the most important aspect of the game and this is where most either succeed or fail big.
Bold claim, with no actual figures to back it up. Personally, I think this is more a preference thing than anything else. F2P is certainly successful for a lot of MMO's heck it's saved a good few. But, people are happy paying for a product that gives them value. People consider how much they are being entertained by as a sense of value and as such will pay.
It also differs on what 'you' personally consider to be F2P, do you mean just a game you download and play fully and you fund the game via cosmetic items etc? Because if that's what you mean, I agree. I do not believe games with content locks are F2P. There F2P models are like trials to see whether its worth subbing to. Games like LOTRO, SWTOR and AOC I consider to be content locked trials and games like RIFT, Planetside, Path of Exile I consider to be F2P. This is subjective, open to debate and relevant to the individual on a personal level.
Wouldn't you want to be in charge of spending your $ or be slapped with monthly and expansion fees? Example...
Again, subjective. Do you want to play a game and show support by buying a mount, or forced to spend money to progress.
Typical P2P game charges $60 for game itself + 30 days free and afterwards additional $15 monthly with $40 expansion fee every 1.5-2 years.If the F2P didn't grow in popularity I would never try and enjoy a lot of online games out there, A LOT and to any skeptic that the P2P is still best, ask yourself if you are in the same boat or not.
$60 is a typical game price, in theory you pay only $45 because first month is free, you pay a sub which gives you a months worth of entertainment. I personally believe you make a drastic saving in P2P games you are invested to.
1) You tend to play a game more that you're paying for. Because of this you tend to buy less games to fill your entertainment needs.
2) F2P allows a lot of flexibility but, people tend to buy more for entertainment a month because of this.
No facts of figures here, just personal experience and what ive observed.
Look at the Elder Scroll Online and Wildstar latest examples. They are launching as P2P, but I won't get inolved in them on start because I have no idea in what I'm involving myself since the NDA has existed for too long and I haven't tested the product. Heck, even B2P games like Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World would took some $ of me if I knew in what I'm involving myself to buy the products.
Most games do not have a 'trial' period or a 'demo' to see if you like if you buy. This is why people rely on word of mouth and reviews to help them make a decision if its worth their time. Of course if you've been burned before with a purchase this will make you more careful in future. But, if you are always looking to play a game before buying then you either pirate or just simply play nothing but F2P MMO's.
Todays games require a lot of space as well and not all got unlimited bandwidth usage with their ISP. It doesn't worth for me to download 20 gigs for 2-3 days of gameplay. So yea, those who attempt to go with the P2P model on start will in fact be the ones with the best chance of going F2P in future since they are the ones who fail to attract big audience on the launch of the game.
Not sure on point being made here, a games size is irrelevant to your argument. If a P2P game is 12 gig and a F2P is 12 gig then the poor people with ISP caps or usage fees suffer regardless. If you are saying that F2P games are smaller, then that's not true. You will however find more games for free that are small I give you that, Kingdom of the Mad God for example.
SOE is one of the savvy and smarter companies out there who realize this, which is why they going with the F2P model for Everquest Next. My ideal F2P model would be the one where it charges me $ for content and nothing else. It will be up to me at the end if that content justifies the asking price. In my opinion what they need to do is give that 30 days of free time to any new account and then the player is welcome to decide if they willing to pay $30-60 for the game and continue playing it as a free game until something new is provided that justifies the fee.
I agree, paying for content would be ideal. I like TSW model very much. Shame not many play it enough to break into a great success. However, this does not work for games that fail to engage the audience. Of course none of these games will be able to because no one can download them as they are too big for their ISPs and others refuse to play a game they can't try out. Of course, I am just pulling your chain, I don't believe this. But paid content is always welcome, sadly it gets misused a lot. SOE has been naughty in the past, whether EQN comes with a fair system to play or not. Time will tell but I am not singing my praises quite yet.
The cash shop can be damaging to the game only if the items sold interfere with what the game is already about. So for example if the game already has system in place for acquiring rare pets/mounts or costumes/styles such items cannot be sold. Same goes for boosts to EXP/loot drop % or whatever. Thats part of the game system and cannot be sold for $.
Not true, cash shop is what keeps most these F2P games afloat, pets, mounts and other cosmetics. These buff and exp potions also drive in the bacon like you wouldn't believe. You might not like it, heck I don't like it but people who play casually and earn a good living have no problems buying their way up in levels, or in game because there money exceeds their time to invest. I don't like it, you don't like it but those people essentially pay for the game to keep going.
New content, additional character slots, increased inventory space are some of the acceptable things that can exist within a cash shop. So I gave my two cents why F2P is the future and we've seen a large increase in games going with this model. It gives the players the choice to decide with their $ and save more in the process than a static sub and box fee on the start which is unhelpful at all since we already don't know what exactly are buying.
Agreed, works well for PoE however companies pay professionals to see what would help drive a profit for their game and all that stuff I mentioned above is work brings in the money. They know it casts a stink, but they spin it, they have to. Otherwise game can't pay for itself and they lose their job.
I have no problem with anyone buying up in level, I would prefer they didn't, but if money is no object to you but your a workaholic I can kinda understand that they pay to keep up. The real problem with cash shop is offering items of progression and advancement that are not available elsewhere. Like, buying PvP armour which gives you an edge or PvE gear that harms in game economy.
YOU may not spend more money, but a lot of people do. Some people leech like crazy and never spend a dime. I have a huge problem with that. There are also a number of reason why it's unfair for people to leech off the system. It breaks the balance in so many ways. When you play on a company hosted server - you should be FORCED to pay something. Servers are not free. Bandwidth is not free. Creating game content is not free. Paying other staff is not free. So please explain why someone should be able to play completely for free.
The only reason F2P works is because they nickle and dime people who don't mind paying, to death. Some people spend 10x the amount of money in F2P in comparison to P2P. A fair and balanced system is P2P. I don't see how that can be argued, but I encourage you to try. Please do not respond with things like "I don't recall". All that really says is you're not sure. That's not an argument. Also you say your 12 years of MMO experience. How long did you commit to one P2P or F2P game? If you've played 100 F2P games for 1 month each then that doesn't say much.
It's like plastic. As quality furniture, floors, etc made from things like old growth redwood became more scarce cheap plastic crap had to replace it.
Well, the starting tutorial takes all of 10 minutes to finish, for what that's worth. Grouping up with people is about as common as it is for any other MMO, which means you can choose to go solo or play with friends; your choice. Of course, things like dungeons and some boss mobs require more people, but there's nothing particularly limiting.
Animations are pretty good for all but a few things, as reviewers have pointed out. The run animation is... weird. Not sure how else to describe it. I think combat animations are pretty good, overall though.
I think graphics are great, especially for an MMO. Draw distances seem good, and the art style is refreshingly not cartoony. The environments are really immersive as well. Having said that, playing the game on lower graphics settings does look downright horrid. There's definitely a wide gap between the lowest and highest settings.
What really shines though, is character progression. There seemed to be a real sense of reward as you gain new and more focused/powerful abilities based on the ones you already use regularly, rather than some predetermined chart based on your class. It's when you start unlocking these abilities that you really start to feel like you've progressed.
One thing that I absolutely HATE, however, is the way the UI uses "E" for confirmation when you least expect it. For example, when you create a name for your character, hitting enter doesn't actually confirm it. It just takes the cursor out of the input box. You still have to hit E or click E to confirm. It's really just strange.
You make me like charity
Open world sim w/ game is the future.
It always has been.
Business models and their intrusion and coercion have all but guaranteed it.
My opinion: F2P is in trouble at the moment, regardless of my bias.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
They don't spend anything. They charge others or cut cost.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
People like ME pay for free players. I shouldn't have to. Every person should pay the same or you don't get to play.