Lol, Vanguard shipped with over 100 open world dungeons and many of them are vast and span multiple levels. Some took days/week to complete with puzzles and all kinds of traps and dungeons within dungeons.
Sounds like a good amount lmfao, really?
Yet the game lived very short life. Surely because those hundred dungeons were so great
Lol, Vanguard shipped with over 100 open world dungeons and many of them are vast and span multiple levels. Some took days/week to complete with puzzles and all kinds of traps and dungeons within dungeons.
Sounds like a good amount lmfao, really?
Yet the game lived very short life. Surely because those hundred dungeons were so great
I didn't like Vanguard too much because of the quest system. With that said most people don't want a really challenging dungeon these days. If you want a challenging dungeon you could go play Everquest even in this day and age with all the nerfing it has gone through. I think most people would just get frustrated with them and quit. Most people don't really want challenge. They just want something they think is a challenge.
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
I was a very effective healer but I used resto staff all the way. the others may have been low level or spread their points out to thin or underestimated one of the healing skills and thus didn't take it or even didn't unlock any healing skills until after the first several levels. Low level... I would guess the were working on survivability and a few other things and not just focusing on heals. Also if they burned through and didn't explore they were probably hurting on skill points, I say a lot of people who ended up like that. Skill points seriously help passives for healing too, but some people feel rushed in a weekend beta so they approach the game like you can just blitz through the main line content and everything will turn out exactly the same.
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
I was a very effective healer but I used resto staff all the way.the others may have been low level or spread their points out to thin or underestimated one of the healing skills and thus didn't take it or even didn't unlock any healing skills until after the first several levels. Low level... I would guess the were working on survivability and a few other things and not just focusing on heals. Also if they burned through and didn't explore they were probably hurting on skill points, I say a lot of people who ended up like that. Skill points seriously help passives for healing too, but some people feel rushed in a weekend beta so they approach the game like you can just blitz through the main line content and everything will turn out exactly the same.
The highlighted portion is what I am loving about this game. You have options to build your character. It will be fun until the Internet junkies start posting their theorycrafting, but by and large how well you play will be based on what character you want to be and how well you progress them.
In this particular example, not all healers are made equal
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
Maybe you werent as good of a tank as you thought you were. Players cant keep up a " well geared tank " when they are to busy trying to keep themselves alive because the " well geared tank " doesnt know how to control aggro in ESO.
Although i dont like the game for many reasons, I found the dungeons actually quite good -keeping in mind that this is lowlevel entry stuff. Even the animations didnt look as horrible as they actually are, graphics and overall style looked great to me.
I'm not sure if these guys wanted to show the content or rather put themselves on display, but i wont go into that.
Originally posted by Flyte27 It looked fun, but no one seemed to ever be in much danger of dying in the entire video. The only one that seemed to lose much health was the tank.
The guys in this video are really good. They're blocking and interrupting at the right time, coordinating ultimates, swapping ultimates per the encounter, making proper use of synergies, moving properly, they know all the mechanics, and the healer is comfortable doing dps and healing at the same time.
I played this last weekends "stress test beta". It was the first time I had played ESO.. I played about 60 hours over the course of those 4 days...maybe more.
I played the Banished Cells & Fungal Grotto (intended for levels 12-15) at least 10 times each as a Dragon Knight speced sword & shield - focused on tanking. I played with multiple pickup groups. I played through these dungeons from lvl 15 on through to 18 - often times the healer was much lower level or had very little in healing abilities. I felt like my role was being fullfilled - I was able to keep the bosses focused on me for the most part (better agro mgmt than in the video) - even in light of cloth wearing sorcerers jumping around with 2h swords... and healers who spent a good amount of time casting offensive spells.
These entry level group dungeons are easy with the exception of the first time you run through them. They are not really challenging. BUT they are FUN and there is a decent loot table and the story line is cool. Also, something I do not see commented on much is the amount of "large sacks" & chests that are in each dungeon. So, lots of crafting goodies and chests to loot for everyone. Loot tables are typical random and everyone loots the boss for their random drops - you can trade most of them as they are bound on equip.
The only time I had an issue was the first time I ran through the BC's - the end boss was receiving healing from the dark spheres floating towards him during the fight. Once I understood that the BC boss was not difficult. Other than this one boss fight, I didn't pay any attention to most of the other "Boss'" special attacks.
I would imagine it is tough to balance between "too hard" and "too easy". The main issue here is that the devs WANT people to be able create characters they "want to play". Not that they have to play to be able to be involved in group content. It is a tough balance without the classic "holy trinity" and min/max specing for group roles. That is major draw for a lot of people to this game. You ccoul have a spec that allows you to play any role in a group - if you want.... you could be main healer/main tank or DPS.... just change some gear and hot bar attack/spells around. I'm sure that might not be as feasible with end game raids and whatnot....
My simple solution would be to have a "normal and hard mode - with items added to the loot table for anything over "normal". Just increase damage by x% and increase the mobs damage resistances by x%
Overall EOS reviewer rant:
Most of the reviewers of this game never get past lvl 10 and this video is the only one I have seen that discusses/shows the group dungeons. There are so many reasons that make this game worth getting/looking forward to and I am shocked that the "review market" is cluttered with folks who never played past lvl 10! (shoot most reviewers barely made it out of the initial "get out of prison" area which takes like 10 minutes!)
Some of things I though that were cool in my limited EOS experience:
Named encounters in the open world (found through exploration) / lootable items/sacks/glyphs - amazing crafting involvement / potential for solid economy with player interaction. / great graphics engaging storylines (many, not all) PvP environment / mechanics very similar to DAoC - realm vs real (was my fav game/setting) DAoC devs are over at Zeni making an almost duplicate RvR environment. / treasure maps / detailed, in-depth crafting system.
I see lots of opportunity for all types of gamers to love this game... I am not sure why there is so much hate out there (well yes I am - YouTube channels trying to pump out popular review content - i.e. play for 1 hour and get a vid uploaded ASAP - shit 99% of the review vids are put up within 5 hours of the Beta open...)
PvE is engaging and fun. Re-rollers can play with all kinds of alts and builds and fighting with different styles is alot of fun. PvE raiders will have content and support via those 24 player dungeons. -- PvE does need to be harder in both open world and dungeon IMO.
PvP has potential to be best in class - especially if you liked DAoC -- there is zerg and there is small group and solo PvP playability.
FREE TO PLAY?
I tell ya what - I hope not and I am certain that they are trying to build a community - two specific examples: crafters names on crafted items and no world AH. There are some things I see as misteps towards a "community goal" like the realms interacting switching sides etc... BUT, bottom line - it all hinges on Zenimax being able to create community. Most MMOers would pay 15 a month for a "fresh" RvR/PvP / PvE / RP /Community.
It is all there and way better than any of the games released in the last 5 years IMO.
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
I had a similar but opposite experience: I leveled Healing Staff Templar just to have access to all healing skills to check them out. I couldn't find a good tank who knew to block, dodge, aggro and mitigate. We should have hooked up lol.
I did find that after a couple of wipes most people would start to get the hang of it.
All in all I really like the system: it's busy but the trinity works.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Flyte27 It looked fun, but no one seemed to ever be in much danger of dying in the entire video. The only one that seemed to lose much health was the tank.
The guys in this video are really good. They're blocking and interrupting at the right time, coordinating ultimates, swapping ultimates per the encounter, making proper use of synergies, moving properly, they know all the mechanics, and the healer is comfortable doing dps and healing at the same time.
All they did was make me feel incompetent when I play and I say to myself, "why was it so easy for them?" lol. Anyway, another person just wrote that the beginner dungeons aren't that hard, which I think is OK since they are beginner dungeons. Hopefully there is DEATH DEATH DEATH later on in higher level ones lol.
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
I will spec healer and with a templar with a Resto Staff off the bat too.
I hope I can find some decent players that are not completely sucked in by silly build options (at least to start with).
I suspect there is a lot of confusion as to how the level and various skills and abilities work.
if you need to use healing skills to level them then obviously many healers wont have had much opportunity to level those skills becasue ....it is a solo game and it isnt that hard to run those quests or gind some mobs that dont result in you or anyone near you needing much healing.
I did a bit of research about what I should spend points on first but it wasn't obvious what to do when in game. I understood restoration staff skills would level if the staff was equipped (no need to use those spells) i should level passives first (not sure how as i couldnt put them on a spell bar and i had hardly any in anycase)
Without any numbers being pumped at you it isnt easy to work out what you are getting credit/xp/skill level for. It is tedious to say the least having to open up character to look at your XP bar, mouse over it and remember what you are on so you can see what Xp you are getting from a mob kill. I seemed to be getting 2 xp from some mobs 50+ from others of the same level...was one better loot worse XP .. dunno i was on autoloot at that point.
Same goes for questing .. havent found a simple and efficient way of finding out what xp im getting from quest hand ins.
You can expect players that want to spec effectively to hit these challenges and if we are to believe wehat we read there will hundreds of thousands of inexperienced MMORPG players running around wondering WTF to do more so that seasoned MMORPG players...
Originally posted by keithian My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
I was a very effective healer but I used resto staff all the way. the others may have been low level or spread their points out to thin or underestimated one of the healing skills and thus didn't take it or even didn't unlock any healing skills until after the first several levels. Low level... I would guess the were working on survivability and a few other things and not just focusing on heals. Also if they burned through and didn't explore they were probably hurting on skill points, I say a lot of people who ended up like that. Skill points seriously help passives for healing too, but some people feel rushed in a weekend beta so they approach the game like you can just blitz through the main line content and everything will turn out exactly the same.
Possibly, I don't think you even need to be heavily invested into the resto tree for the first dungeons, but need to have good timing. The one solid group I had blew through Spindle even faster than in this video. It is not as simple to keep aggro in this game as in a typical trinity because you require stamina to use your only taunt ability, but blocking also consumes quite a large amount of it. With a healer who is quick to respond to damage I could just stay offensive and only block the special attacks. But with healers that were not quick to respond it leads me to sit in block, which in turn causes the boss to quickly switch to attacking DPS and make me spam my damage abilities and end up with no stamina to block. It is a quick chain reaction that spirals out of control and usually leads to a wipe.
Comments
Yet the game lived very short life. Surely because those hundred dungeons were so great
I didn't like Vanguard too much because of the quest system. With that said most people don't want a really challenging dungeon these days. If you want a challenging dungeon you could go play Everquest even in this day and age with all the nerfing it has gone through. I think most people would just get frustrated with them and quit. Most people don't really want challenge. They just want something they think is a challenge.
There Is Always Hope!
Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...
I was a very effective healer but I used resto staff all the way. the others may have been low level or spread their points out to thin or underestimated one of the healing skills and thus didn't take it or even didn't unlock any healing skills until after the first several levels. Low level... I would guess the were working on survivability and a few other things and not just focusing on heals. Also if they burned through and didn't explore they were probably hurting on skill points, I say a lot of people who ended up like that. Skill points seriously help passives for healing too, but some people feel rushed in a weekend beta so they approach the game like you can just blitz through the main line content and everything will turn out exactly the same.
The highlighted portion is what I am loving about this game. You have options to build your character. It will be fun until the Internet junkies start posting their theorycrafting, but by and large how well you play will be based on what character you want to be and how well you progress them.
In this particular example, not all healers are made equal
Maybe you werent as good of a tank as you thought you were. Players cant keep up a " well geared tank " when they are to busy trying to keep themselves alive because the " well geared tank " doesnt know how to control aggro in ESO.
Although i dont like the game for many reasons, I found the dungeons actually quite good -keeping in mind that this is lowlevel entry stuff. Even the animations didnt look as horrible as they actually are, graphics and overall style looked great to me.
I'm not sure if these guys wanted to show the content or rather put themselves on display, but i wont go into that.
The guys in this video are really good. They're blocking and interrupting at the right time, coordinating ultimates, swapping ultimates per the encounter, making proper use of synergies, moving properly, they know all the mechanics, and the healer is comfortable doing dps and healing at the same time.
I played this last weekends "stress test beta". It was the first time I had played ESO.. I played about 60 hours over the course of those 4 days...maybe more.
I played the Banished Cells & Fungal Grotto (intended for levels 12-15) at least 10 times each as a Dragon Knight speced sword & shield - focused on tanking. I played with multiple pickup groups. I played through these dungeons from lvl 15 on through to 18 - often times the healer was much lower level or had very little in healing abilities. I felt like my role was being fullfilled - I was able to keep the bosses focused on me for the most part (better agro mgmt than in the video) - even in light of cloth wearing sorcerers jumping around with 2h swords... and healers who spent a good amount of time casting offensive spells.
These entry level group dungeons are easy with the exception of the first time you run through them. They are not really challenging. BUT they are FUN and there is a decent loot table and the story line is cool. Also, something I do not see commented on much is the amount of "large sacks" & chests that are in each dungeon. So, lots of crafting goodies and chests to loot for everyone. Loot tables are typical random and everyone loots the boss for their random drops - you can trade most of them as they are bound on equip.
The only time I had an issue was the first time I ran through the BC's - the end boss was receiving healing from the dark spheres floating towards him during the fight. Once I understood that the BC boss was not difficult. Other than this one boss fight, I didn't pay any attention to most of the other "Boss'" special attacks.
I would imagine it is tough to balance between "too hard" and "too easy". The main issue here is that the devs WANT people to be able create characters they "want to play". Not that they have to play to be able to be involved in group content. It is a tough balance without the classic "holy trinity" and min/max specing for group roles. That is major draw for a lot of people to this game. You ccoul have a spec that allows you to play any role in a group - if you want.... you could be main healer/main tank or DPS.... just change some gear and hot bar attack/spells around. I'm sure that might not be as feasible with end game raids and whatnot....
My simple solution would be to have a "normal and hard mode - with items added to the loot table for anything over "normal". Just increase damage by x% and increase the mobs damage resistances by x%
Overall EOS reviewer rant:
Most of the reviewers of this game never get past lvl 10 and this video is the only one I have seen that discusses/shows the group dungeons. There are so many reasons that make this game worth getting/looking forward to and I am shocked that the "review market" is cluttered with folks who never played past lvl 10! (shoot most reviewers barely made it out of the initial "get out of prison" area which takes like 10 minutes!)
Some of things I though that were cool in my limited EOS experience:
Named encounters in the open world (found through exploration) / lootable items/sacks/glyphs - amazing crafting involvement / potential for solid economy with player interaction. / great graphics engaging storylines (many, not all) PvP environment / mechanics very similar to DAoC - realm vs real (was my fav game/setting) DAoC devs are over at Zeni making an almost duplicate RvR environment. / treasure maps / detailed, in-depth crafting system.
I see lots of opportunity for all types of gamers to love this game... I am not sure why there is so much hate out there (well yes I am - YouTube channels trying to pump out popular review content - i.e. play for 1 hour and get a vid uploaded ASAP - shit 99% of the review vids are put up within 5 hours of the Beta open...)
PvE is engaging and fun. Re-rollers can play with all kinds of alts and builds and fighting with different styles is alot of fun. PvE raiders will have content and support via those 24 player dungeons. -- PvE does need to be harder in both open world and dungeon IMO.
PvP has potential to be best in class - especially if you liked DAoC -- there is zerg and there is small group and solo PvP playability.
FREE TO PLAY?
I tell ya what - I hope not and I am certain that they are trying to build a community - two specific examples: crafters names on crafted items and no world AH. There are some things I see as misteps towards a "community goal" like the realms interacting switching sides etc... BUT, bottom line - it all hinges on Zenimax being able to create community. Most MMOers would pay 15 a month for a "fresh" RvR/PvP / PvE / RP /Community.
It is all there and way better than any of the games released in the last 5 years IMO.
I had a similar but opposite experience: I leveled Healing Staff Templar just to have access to all healing skills to check them out. I couldn't find a good tank who knew to block, dodge, aggro and mitigate. We should have hooked up lol.
I did find that after a couple of wipes most people would start to get the hang of it.
All in all I really like the system: it's busy but the trinity works.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All they did was make me feel incompetent when I play and I say to myself, "why was it so easy for them?" lol. Anyway, another person just wrote that the beginner dungeons aren't that hard, which I think is OK since they are beginner dungeons. Hopefully there is DEATH DEATH DEATH later on in higher level ones lol.
There Is Always Hope!
I will spec healer and with a templar with a Resto Staff off the bat too.
I hope I can find some decent players that are not completely sucked in by silly build options (at least to start with).
I suspect there is a lot of confusion as to how the level and various skills and abilities work.
if you need to use healing skills to level them then obviously many healers wont have had much opportunity to level those skills becasue ....it is a solo game and it isnt that hard to run those quests or gind some mobs that dont result in you or anyone near you needing much healing.
I did a bit of research about what I should spend points on first but it wasn't obvious what to do when in game. I understood restoration staff skills would level if the staff was equipped (no need to use those spells) i should level passives first (not sure how as i couldnt put them on a spell bar and i had hardly any in anycase)
Without any numbers being pumped at you it isnt easy to work out what you are getting credit/xp/skill level for. It is tedious to say the least having to open up character to look at your XP bar, mouse over it and remember what you are on so you can see what Xp you are getting from a mob kill. I seemed to be getting 2 xp from some mobs 50+ from others of the same level...was one better loot worse XP .. dunno i was on autoloot at that point.
Same goes for questing .. havent found a simple and efficient way of finding out what xp im getting from quest hand ins.
You can expect players that want to spec effectively to hit these challenges and if we are to believe wehat we read there will hundreds of thousands of inexperienced MMORPG players running around wondering WTF to do more so that seasoned MMORPG players...
Possibly, I don't think you even need to be heavily invested into the resto tree for the first dungeons, but need to have good timing. The one solid group I had blew through Spindle even faster than in this video. It is not as simple to keep aggro in this game as in a typical trinity because you require stamina to use your only taunt ability, but blocking also consumes quite a large amount of it. With a healer who is quick to respond to damage I could just stay offensive and only block the special attacks. But with healers that were not quick to respond it leads me to sit in block, which in turn causes the boss to quickly switch to attacking DPS and make me spam my damage abilities and end up with no stamina to block. It is a quick chain reaction that spirals out of control and usually leads to a wipe.