Originally posted by DaveyCole Part of the experience in previous Elder Scrolls games is that items have weight. You could go raid a dungeon and it would be full of amazing items, but you had to pick and choose which ones you wanted the most. It was a balancing game of weight versus worth. Later you had to decide if it was worth it to make several trips back and forth to get every last piece, or make due without.Now I understand that they are trying to make things easier in this new game. What I see here is a missed opportunity. When you are traveling with a group of friends and you start raiding dungeons, you could balance out the treasure between your group so you walk away with as much treasure as you can. It gets you excited about bringing friends because the more people you have the more treasure you can carry! This is the spirit of what role playing games and playing with friends is all about.It's not about making things easy, but overcoming obstacles and facing challenges. I fear that by removing all the small and seemingly insignificant things, they are chiseling away at what made this series challenging. What are your thoughts?
Glad they removed WEIGHT. It was a pain in the butt to deal with in Skyrim... annoying
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
There's probably a ton of reasons it was removed from the game. I assume that the number 1 reason was convenience/speed. So, if you are travelling in a party, you don't end up stopping all the time for Joe to evaluate his lootage on weight vs. value to figure out what he wants to carry or not. And because once Joe drops what he doesn't want, everyone else will pick through it to see what they want. I'd suspect most people don't want swap meet online.
I also think that since it is an MMO, alot of the fun of such a system gets sucked out of it, because you cannot include the ways around it. Like leaving stuff behind to get it later. Or my personal methodology of cleaning out a dungeon, was to grab a naked corpse, stuff it full of loot, and drag it around. I would absolutely adore having all of this in game (can you imagine a raid like this? "Everyone got your loot corpse?" "yeah!" "Leave my loot corpse alone Joe! I know you like bretons, but leave it alone. I've got all my butter knives in there")
So, lamentable, but understandable. If the complete system cannot be included, I'd rather it gone, than just have a single somewhat inconvenient piece of it.
The first thing I mod or use the command shell to get rid of is item weight. There is no way all those mages, wizards and scientists would work out how to carry around nuclear weapons, magical travel systems, teleportaion and worm holes and then not work out some way to have a pocket universe for storage.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The first thing I mod or use the command shell to get rid of is item weight. There is no way all those mages, wizards and scientists would work out how to carry around nuclear weapons, magical travel systems, teleportaion and worm holes and then not work out some way to have a pocket universe for storage.
Originally posted by Sunnyguy46 Why only focus on weight? what about mass? Do you carry that spare sword and shield or the ginormous 6 foot tall purple balloon?
I understand what you're saying, but my point isn't that the game should be more realistic or that they should make drastic game design changes. I'm not a game designer. I suppose I am only lamenting that the game is systematically being reduced to less than what it was before. It's clear to me that within the confines of this thread a majority of players would rather see weight removed from the Elder Scrolls entirely. I suppose this is the shape of things to come with the new generation of gamers who want things easier and simpler to understand. Is it too hard to figure out weight versus value? Removed. Is it too difficult for you to transport crafting resources to the work bench? Instant transportation. Is it too difficult to remember where you left your horse? Don't want to hitch it up or stable it?Magically summon one...without magic, because that would be confusing.
Originally posted by Sunnyguy46 Why only focus on weight? what about mass? Do you carry that spare sword and shield or the ginormous 6 foot tall purple balloon?
I understand what you're saying, but my point isn't that the game should be more realistic or that they should make drastic game design changes. I'm not a game designer. I suppose I am only lamenting that the game is systematically being reduced to less than what it was before. It's clear to me that within the confines of this thread a majority of players would rather see weight removed from the Elder Scrolls entirely. I suppose this is the shape of things to come with the new generation of gamers who want things easier and simpler to understand. Is it too hard to figure out weight versus value? Removed. Is it too difficult for you to transport crafting resources to the work bench? Instant transportation. Is it too difficult to remember where you left your horse? Don't want to hitch it up or stable it?Magically summon one...without magic, because that would be confusing.
As much as people aren't fans of item weight, it's really no different in any other game. You've just got bag slots to contend with, instead.
I think that you're right, though. I don't think you're whining. It's reasonable that, since item weight was in each TES game, that you would expect to see it in TESO. I think it'd be a great mechanic for dungeons, too. Have bosses that can decrease your strength and people with full bags end up becoming over-burdened and can't move.
It's obvious that TES fans are onboard with the game, so why change your game to suit an MMO market opposed to catering to your core fans?
I think the answer is quite simple. They want people to be on equal terms when it comes to loot. If you had a tank in full heavy armor with a sword and shield, maybe a two hand off hand in his bags, he's going to be severely limited in his ability to loot things as opposed to a wizard who uses staves and is full light armor. Lets not even consider that he might have to mine heavy minerals to craft more of his armor, what a nightmare for tanks who seem to be under represented as it is. They are trying to encourage freedom of builds, and perhaps wearing heavy armor and using large weapon would be less appealing if you could loot half as much because of the weight of items. Investing time to balance a weight system seems like a waste of resources. Its over complicating something that doesn't need to be complex. It adds to a single player experience, however, when you think on the multi player level.. things have to be a little more simple.
I think the answer is quite simple. They want people to be on equal terms when it comes to loot. If you had a tank in full heavy armor with a sword and shield, maybe a two hand off hand in his bags, he's going to be severely limited in his ability to loot things as opposed to a wizard who uses staves and is full light armor. Lets not even consider that he might have to mine heavy minerals to craft more of his armor, what a nightmare for tanks who seem to be under represented as it is. They are trying to encourage freedom of builds, and perhaps wearing heavy armor and using large weapon would be less appealing if you could loot half as much because of the weight of items. Investing time to balance a weight system seems like a waste of resources. Its over complicating something that doesn't need to be complex. It adds to a single player experience, however, when you think on the multi player level.. things have to be a little more simple.
That's a really bad example to use, because in Skyrim your carrying capacity is dependant on your Strength. The tank will no doubt have far more strength than the skinny mage in silk robes, who'd most likely be too weak to carry much in addition to his staff and mana potions.
Originally posted by Octagon7711 Can horses carry stuff?
YES THEY CAN! You can raise them to slowly carry more and more or increase speed, or stamina. It was in an article posted on this site, this is confirmed. They don't start with bag space.... but you can feed them certain things every 24 hours or so and actually grow their abilities (slowly, but still). WOOT HORSIES!
Probably immortal I hope, I think they altered the cost based on this... Skyrim 1k for a horse that will probably be dead in 20 minutes, or 17k for a horse you get to keep. I cannot confirm they do not die... but since people were riding them in the PVP videos I would say it is a safe bet.
Originally posted by Pyatra Probably immortal I hope, I think they altered the cost based on this... Skyrim 1k for a horse that will probably be dead in 20 minutes, or 17k for a horse you get to keep. I cannot confirm they do not die... but since people were riding them in the PVP videos I would say it is a safe bet.
Would be great if they had a cooldown after death, so they couldn't be respawned instantly, but I guess there's zero chance of that.
If people want item weight for realism how about needing to eat food and having to sleep,i for one play games to have fun,not have realism,since where can you fight monsters as a daily chore in real life.
Originally posted by johnisme If people want item weight for realism how about needing to eat food and having to sleep,i for one play games to have fun,not have realism,since where can you fight monsters as a daily chore in real life.
Nooooo! The game must be REAL!!!
Don't make me pull out my magical wand and shoot a fireball at you!!!
Originally posted by johnisme If people want item weight for realism how about needing to eat food and having to sleep,i for one play games to have fun,not have realism,since where can you fight monsters as a daily chore in real life.
If you read my previous posts I clarified that this has nothing to do with realism but rather staying true to what the Elder Scrolls games are without setting off down the path of further degradation. Why do people always come back to the "realism" defense? If we wanted realism we wouldn't be running around casting spells and slaying dragons...
Originally posted by Pyatra Probably immortal I hope, I think they altered the cost based on this... Skyrim 1k for a horse that will probably be dead in 20 minutes, or 17k for a horse you get to keep. I cannot confirm they do not die... but since people were riding them in the PVP videos I would say it is a safe bet.
Would be great if they had a cooldown after death, so they couldn't be respawned instantly, but I guess there's zero chance of that.
I have heard that you can't summon them in combat or right after combat. I think mostly you get knocked off long before they get close to dying. Unless you go Skyrim horsey cliff rocket I think it won't happen.
Back on topic, the videos they release of last beta has no weight only slots x/60, so no weight I presume.
I think the answer is quite simple. They want people to be on equal terms when it comes to loot. If you had a tank in full heavy armor with a sword and shield, maybe a two hand off hand in his bags, he's going to be severely limited in his ability to loot things as opposed to a wizard who uses staves and is full light armor. Lets not even consider that he might have to mine heavy minerals to craft more of his armor, what a nightmare for tanks who seem to be under represented as it is. They are trying to encourage freedom of builds, and perhaps wearing heavy armor and using large weapon would be less appealing if you could loot half as much because of the weight of items. Investing time to balance a weight system seems like a waste of resources. Its over complicating something that doesn't need to be complex. It adds to a single player experience, however, when you think on the multi player level.. things have to be a little more simple.
That's a really bad example to use, because in Skyrim your carrying capacity is dependant on your Strength. The tank will no doubt have far more strength than the skinny mage in silk robes, who'd most likely be too weak to carry much in addition to his staff and mana potions.
There is irony here... because it's not Skyrim, its ESO. There is no strength. There is only health, stamina, and magicka.
Frankly I find the weight limits in Skyrim really annoying and think they detract from the game. Its not an interesting problem, its an incredibly simple problem that causes me a hassle. But I understand some people like. I don't, not at all.
Originally posted by johnismeIf people want item weight for realism how about needing to eat food and having to sleep,i for one play games to have fun,not have realism,since where can you fight monsters as a daily chore in real life.
If you read my previous posts I clarified that this has nothing to do with realism but rather staying true to what the Elder Scrolls games are without setting off down the path of further degradation. Why do people always come back to the "realism" defense? If we wanted realism we wouldn't be running around casting spells and slaying dragons...
As in your previous posts, this is not a typical Elder Scrolls game.
I definitely understand that you liked the way the series played before, but the bottom line is Zenimax was not building another single player experience, and I suspect that when they were looking at things that might be beloved, but have no place and utterly useless in an MMO, item weight did not make the cut.
Not sure why people are clinging to the idea that this game is, or should have all the same mechanics that the single player series did.
Comments
Item weight is just not needed in a GAME.
I want fun, not reality. If you want cumbersome in your mmorpg, EvE is that way.
Some of the most excitement i had in MMO's was returning to town with a backpack full of loot after a long hunting session...
Why?
Cause there could be PK's in town, and if they killed me they could get some of my most valuable gear!
Add the fact i was generally burdened (slowed down) due to carrying so much, and it made my chances of running away much lower.
Good times!!
Glad they removed WEIGHT. It was a pain in the butt to deal with in Skyrim... annoying
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
There's probably a ton of reasons it was removed from the game. I assume that the number 1 reason was convenience/speed. So, if you are travelling in a party, you don't end up stopping all the time for Joe to evaluate his lootage on weight vs. value to figure out what he wants to carry or not. And because once Joe drops what he doesn't want, everyone else will pick through it to see what they want. I'd suspect most people don't want swap meet online.
I also think that since it is an MMO, alot of the fun of such a system gets sucked out of it, because you cannot include the ways around it. Like leaving stuff behind to get it later. Or my personal methodology of cleaning out a dungeon, was to grab a naked corpse, stuff it full of loot, and drag it around. I would absolutely adore having all of this in game (can you imagine a raid like this? "Everyone got your loot corpse?" "yeah!" "Leave my loot corpse alone Joe! I know you like bretons, but leave it alone. I've got all my butter knives in there")
So, lamentable, but understandable. If the complete system cannot be included, I'd rather it gone, than just have a single somewhat inconvenient piece of it.
The first thing I mod or use the command shell to get rid of is item weight. There is no way all those mages, wizards and scientists would work out how to carry around nuclear weapons, magical travel systems, teleportaion and worm holes and then not work out some way to have a pocket universe for storage.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Exactly what Hermione did in Harry Potter lol.
There Is Always Hope!
I understand what you're saying, but my point isn't that the game should be more realistic or that they should make drastic game design changes. I'm not a game designer. I suppose I am only lamenting that the game is systematically being reduced to less than what it was before. It's clear to me that within the confines of this thread a majority of players would rather see weight removed from the Elder Scrolls entirely. I suppose this is the shape of things to come with the new generation of gamers who want things easier and simpler to understand. Is it too hard to figure out weight versus value? Removed. Is it too difficult for you to transport crafting resources to the work bench? Instant transportation. Is it too difficult to remember where you left your horse? Don't want to hitch it up or stable it?Magically summon one...without magic, because that would be confusing.
As much as people aren't fans of item weight, it's really no different in any other game. You've just got bag slots to contend with, instead.
I think that you're right, though. I don't think you're whining. It's reasonable that, since item weight was in each TES game, that you would expect to see it in TESO. I think it'd be a great mechanic for dungeons, too. Have bosses that can decrease your strength and people with full bags end up becoming over-burdened and can't move.
It's obvious that TES fans are onboard with the game, so why change your game to suit an MMO market opposed to catering to your core fans?
Crazkanuk
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I think the answer is quite simple. They want people to be on equal terms when it comes to loot. If you had a tank in full heavy armor with a sword and shield, maybe a two hand off hand in his bags, he's going to be severely limited in his ability to loot things as opposed to a wizard who uses staves and is full light armor. Lets not even consider that he might have to mine heavy minerals to craft more of his armor, what a nightmare for tanks who seem to be under represented as it is. They are trying to encourage freedom of builds, and perhaps wearing heavy armor and using large weapon would be less appealing if you could loot half as much because of the weight of items. Investing time to balance a weight system seems like a waste of resources. Its over complicating something that doesn't need to be complex. It adds to a single player experience, however, when you think on the multi player level.. things have to be a little more simple.
That's a really bad example to use, because in Skyrim your carrying capacity is dependant on your Strength. The tank will no doubt have far more strength than the skinny mage in silk robes, who'd most likely be too weak to carry much in addition to his staff and mana potions.
YES THEY CAN! You can raise them to slowly carry more and more or increase speed, or stamina. It was in an article posted on this site, this is confirmed. They don't start with bag space.... but you can feed them certain things every 24 hours or so and actually grow their abilities (slowly, but still). WOOT HORSIES!
Would be great if they had a cooldown after death, so they couldn't be respawned instantly, but I guess there's zero chance of that.
Nooooo! The game must be REAL!!!
Don't make me pull out my magical wand and shoot a fireball at you!!!
If you read my previous posts I clarified that this has nothing to do with realism but rather staying true to what the Elder Scrolls games are without setting off down the path of further degradation. Why do people always come back to the "realism" defense? If we wanted realism we wouldn't be running around casting spells and slaying dragons...
I have heard that you can't summon them in combat or right after combat. I think mostly you get knocked off long before they get close to dying. Unless you go Skyrim horsey cliff rocket I think it won't happen.
Back on topic, the videos they release of last beta has no weight only slots x/60, so no weight I presume.
There is irony here... because it's not Skyrim, its ESO. There is no strength. There is only health, stamina, and magicka.
As in your previous posts, this is not a typical Elder Scrolls game.
I definitely understand that you liked the way the series played before, but the bottom line is Zenimax was not building another single player experience, and I suspect that when they were looking at things that might be beloved, but have no place and utterly useless in an MMO, item weight did not make the cut.
Not sure why people are clinging to the idea that this game is, or should have all the same mechanics that the single player series did.