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[Preview] Elder Scrolls Online: The Alliance War Gets It Right

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  • DreycraftDreycraft Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Originally posted by blazzen67
    Originally posted by dreycraft
    I was already beyond pumped for this game after playing the beta last weekend, which incidentally I only got to level 8, and I was having such a blast exploring, gathering materials, trying out all the crafting, talking to random npcs, reading books and doing quests all while loving the scenery along the way. This was all pre-level 10 so I'm still wondering why you're calling it a "snoozefest"? That's all I've played of the game so far and this is what has hooked me and convinced me to pre-order my physical imperial edition. Under level 10 for me was anything but a snoozefest, I'm guessing it just seems that way because after level 10 it's just that much better? Anyways I was already beyond pumped, and this article, which was great by the way, has me pretty much foaming at the mouth for launch. The fact that Cyrodiil in ESO is still the same size as it was in Oblivion is incredible, and it is all a PvP playground with tons and tons and tons of content. All of your experiences from being in a big "blob"(lol), to playing lone wolf and finding smaller skirmishes, or sneaking around pulling off quick solo kills sounds ridiculously fun. Hopefully the performance continues to hold up even after release, but I'm confident it will if it is in a beta. And what's going to make it guaranteed to be awesome is because of their megaserver technology. We won't have to worry about downtimes, or less populated servers causing Cyrodiil to be empty because the tech will make sure there's always enough players together in the zone to have awesome battles. Hopefully this all ends up as great as it's sounding so far.
     

    i think most call it a snooze fest because they want to hurry up and level as fast as they can, so they can try to be the first to level 50, like the life of the game is only a month instead of years, or they think its a race instead of an MMORPG. i was the same as you, i loved going off exploring, talking to every NPC, and not just the ones with a quest marker over there heads (which by the way, i found even more quests that way) , crafting, finding resources for crafting..there is more to this game than just following the main quests and to race to the finish.  the last 2 beta's convinced me to pre order this game and cant wait for launch..great game.

    Good to see another person who gets it. There was someone commenting above, can't remember his/her handle, don't really care, saying that the first 10 levels was THE worst experience they've ever had. Obviously this person is from the new mmorpg generation of players, who want to rush to cap and everything handed to them without much work involved. To say it was that horrendous is ridiculous.

     
     
  • PierrenardPierrenard Member UncommonPosts: 30

    Impossable for me to play ..am a mouse clicker thats it

     

  • leoo88556leoo88556 Member Posts: 135

    I still think that the game's PvE is pretty bad no matter what level you're in, as I never felt "free" while leveling(thought this is a ES game?) and the stories behind those quests are just a bit dull. But I have to agree... TESO's PvP is pretty good.

    Soooo much remains to be seen, but if they can iron out those post-launch wrinkles I think the game can survive just on its PvP.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,439
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Originally posted by Mizraelis

    there simply aren’t any other contemporary MMORPGs out there that are pushing large-scale three-faction warfare

     

    Excuse me? Dark Ages of Camelot is still around and that's where Three Realm Warfare originated! Hell, That's what ESO's 3 Faction Warefare was based on in the first place!

     

    "contemporary MMORPGs"

    DAOC Release Date: 2001. :)

    Just going to be picky here. My understanding of contemporary is that two or more things were occurring at the same time. So DAOC is contemporary. It is certainly not a modern MMO mind you.

  • ElandrialElandrial Member UncommonPosts: 179

    if they wanted a pvp on large scale why bother with the mmorpg part than?why have the story line,the quest,just log and have at it.the thing is this is NOT what the pvp want,they want to be able to mess with people playing the game,they want to take on people 20-30 levels lower than them.pvp is never about skill its about gear,its about being higher level.its about attacking someone while in combat.

    they say this is the part of it that is different,will it make it better nope,they will try find they cannot get an unfair advantage and leave.

  • wgc01wgc01 Member UncommonPosts: 241

    I have had a blast in Cryodiil, the zone is huge, there are old towns and ruins, will take a while to just explore Cryodiil, my performance was good, the siege warfare was fun, looking forward to the release of the game, where I can play with my offical toon that will not be deleted.   The sandbox feel of Cryodill, will be what will set ESO apart from a lot of other games.. :)

    And this is the fisrt game I have played since orignal EQ, and swg, where my toon feels like it lives in the world and not just playing through the world, looking forward to long term game play here, I like to stay in my mmo's for years. :)

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258

    There is zero about the alliance system that is better than a non-alliance system.

    If the combat is done right, the PvP will be great. period. Doesn't matter if there are 2 factions, 10 factions or NO FACTIONS.  The idea of PvP "rewards" is just another carrot on a stick designed to give people a reason to do something that actually isn't worth doing on its own, hence not designed well.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • BraindomeBraindome Member UncommonPosts: 959
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Braindome

    It got better for me after level 1

  • BraindomeBraindome Member UncommonPosts: 959
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    It got better for me after level 1

    I should clarify a bit as that was more of a generalization and something that was mentioned alot to people that didn't care for FFXIV at first.

    Truth be told, I liked the first 15 level of FFXIV the best, once though I hit 15 "where it was supposed to get even better", the game became instanced/que boss fights....*scratch head*, seriously wtf. I liked it from 1-15 cause it was more open world, when it became an instanced affair I gave up.

    So, even though the analogy is somewhat reverse "in my case", it still holds true of when people say things will get better imo. Like what exactly gets better? In this case it seems the PvP gets better, what about PvE, just kinda a broad statement i'm getting tired of personally. I mean just cause it does PvP right doesn't automatically give it a pass and make it a better game across the board.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by Braindome
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    It got better for me after level 1

    I should clarify a bit as that was more of a generalization and something that was mentioned alot to people that didn't care for FFXIV at first.

    Truth be told, I liked the first 15 level of FFXIV the best, once though I hit 15 "where it was supposed to get even better", the game became instanced/que boss fights....*scratch head*, seriously wtf. I liked it from 1-15 cause it was more open world, when it became an instanced affair I gave up.

    So, even though the analogy is somewhat reverse "in my case", it still holds true of when people say things will get better imo. Like what exactly gets better? In this case it seems the PvP gets better, what about PvE, just kinda a broad statement i'm getting tired of personally. I mean just cause it does PvP right doesn't automatically give it a pass and make it a better game across the board.

    I thought the PVE did get better although I never thought the early levels where that bad.  They are a bit barren and could use more filler but not unplayable by any means.

    After level 8 and especially after about level 10 or so the quests really start to grow in scope and impact in a good way.  Personalized phasing of the open open world like it or hate it really lets them do interesting things like save a city and have merchants slowly return and rebuild it after your done.  This really creates weight to your actions in a much more substantial manner than previous MMO's I have played.  It does cause issues with grouping unfortunately that I hope they get ironed out by launch but the general idea is pretty well done especially if you are one of those people who likes to level alone.  As for the mechanics of the game they don't fundamentally change as you level but you are expected to take full advantage of the tools available to you after around level 10 or so.  There are some solo fights where if you don't use your ability to block and interrupt you will die and I really can't name a game in recent times where you where forced to use the environment around you in solo fights so early in your leveling carrier. 

  • LanthirLanthir Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by udon
    I find it interesting that the 2nd wave of previews that came from people who played the game past the tutorial zones are much more positive.

    First, part of the issue is that the game opens up once past the starter zones.  The starter zones are set up to really teach totally new people not only how the game works but how an MMO works.  Many of the initial reviewers not only did not take that into account but they also were rushing through things to see as much as possible in the limited time they had.  Also they were on an older build.  The second wave of reviews, although still no on the most recent build but the stress test one, was based on a newer build and with 800k + people playing.  I know having been in beta since November that every build has made a noticeable difference in the game.   A good example was a review by  Angry Joe he only played through aprox lvl 6 and never got out of the starter area in the first review.  While there he was playing with two consollers who are not fans or MMO's let alone pc games.  His review was quite negative.  His second review was done based on game play in this second test.  He reached lvl 10 and went off to PVP now he loves the game.

    Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  • LanthirLanthir Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by WikileaksEU
    It's a big map but a big map will cause lag when enough players is in it and enough particle effects flying around everywhere. ArenaNet did it better by separating different parts into borderlands and lessen the lag.
     

    Well they took care of that to some extent by the fact that although you can have 2k people in one campaign only a max of the closest  200 will be rendered on your screen

    Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  • LanthirLanthir Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by Silverune

    Problem is there is still no reason to hold keeps. The zerg just abandons and moves onto the next leaving it undefended and retaken within the hour. GW2 still suffers a heck of a lot from this merry go round.

     

     

    ah but in ESO there is a reason unless you want to be running 25 minutes to get to the fight you want a network of keeps and their linking paths so you can port rapidly around the map.  Then add in the fact that there are more supply point (mines lumber mills etc) that need to be held in order to take down or defend a keep.

    Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  • LanthirLanthir Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by ButeoRegalis

    Haven't read anything yet that addresses the big issues that GW2 WvW ran into, aside from the larger map, though ESO's waypoint system may defeat that.

    What about

    • server stacking, here: alliance stacking. Note: if 90% of the players join alliance A, it doesn't matter if you have 1, 2 or 20 opposing factions, it'll be face-roll all day every day; unless miraculously people spread out semi-evenly over the alliances..., coz, yea, that's totally going to happen; and don't bring up 2v1 against the stronger server; that looks good on paper, but works so rarely in real play, it's a non-factor, you will much more likely see both the strongest and weakest beating on #2, either in an attempt to keep them down, or try to move past them
    • off hour coverage/"night capping"
    • "karma train", which I guess would be called "alliance point train"?, aka keep trading
    • "hey, you got your Peee Weeee Eeeee into my Peee Weee Peeee!!! >:(" if there was one thing in Gw2 the hardcore WvWers really, really loved it was to find PvE content in WvW
    • zerging if map size is made irrelevant by waypoints and on the other hand here, one dude knocking on a gate being able to block a waypoint
    • hackers, though that will have to wait until the game comes out; GW2 had "orbs" initially that worked a little like the ESO scrolls and were constantly hacked to the point where ANet pulled them from the game (the orbs are back now, though only in name with a different mechanic)
    • "spies"/trolls, people from other alliances, or from your own in case of trolls, playing in your alliance and actively hindering your alliance's war effort
     

    1) the losing sides gain alliance points at a much faster rate than the last winning side.  This helps alleviate that some extent.  The population as a whole in one campaign is limited to 2k and balanced for the factions.  With just two mega servers world wide the chances of an alliance not being able to field a full force at any given time is slim to non even if the  sides have greatly disparaging populations.

    2)  Keep trading would appear to be pointless as you want the keeps in order to eventually gain control of the 6 main keeps and crown an Emperor.

    3) Not sure about the pve inside the zone but since there is plenty of pve outside it for the pure pvers the only ones inside would be ones willing to engage in pve.

    4) you as an individual can not run up and hit a door.  Your weapon has no effect on it and thus do not count as an attack.  Only a siege engine can cause damage.  So you would have to set one up ( at cost to you) and stay there hoping no one comes and kills you.  Part of what makes this version of pvp work is the simple fact that a straight zerg can not be sustained.    You need to hold keep and their supply areas A zerg running around and leaving the area behind them to be retaken will just peter out. Another draw back to just zerging around is the time it take for peoples to respawn and run back to the zerg would lengthen as the zerg got further and further away from their starting area

    5) As for hackers we will have to see how that plays out

    6) Spies and trolls are unfortunately part of the game.  However, since keep and supply points can only be claimed by one guild and that guild can only have a claim at anyone time.  you would think guilds would police themselves.  A lone wolf working without a guild would probably not have enough information on an Alliances strategy to have that much of an effect on the battles.

     

    Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  • LanthirLanthir Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by darkeather2

    I was very interested but I was stopped short at a certain point. I had come in thinking that the emperor was crowned by the entire faction making a vote on it, but now it's just a race to see is the best soldier? Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I had thought being emperor meant being a leader, not a soldier. I thought that Emperor would basicly be entitled to the leader of the guild that helped out the most/had the most people that orginized the best way, that the guild would actually like and /want/ to vote for.

    May I remind you how the title of Grand Marshal/ High Warlord in WoW went about: "Ok, you all have to do 500 battlegrounds this time, and only the high warlord for this week can do more then that, or else you will be banned."  It became less about working to achieve that goal, and more of finding the right guild that will eventually let you have your turn by lessening what everyone else in said guild is allowed to do.

    I personally think the vote encouraged leaders to step up, and their followers to do their duty.

     

    It would be hard for an individual to progress to the top of the charts without his or her guild working hard to progress the campaign for their Alliance.  Remember too that each guild can claim one and only one keep or supply point to hold  and they must hold it.   Taking it to only let it fall to the other side does you little  good.

    Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 Member UncommonPosts: 305
    Originally posted by Nephaerius
    why is the PvP any good if the combat is terrible? the combat is still the same combat from the Elder Scroll series which is historically the worst aspect of the game. you can't praise it now when everyone through it under the bus before

    No its not even close to the same combat as Elder Scrolls (And How is FPS combat Terrible?)

     

    Its Soft-Lock targeting, basically tab targeting but you use your mouse to lock on.  There is no actual aiming.

  • LanthirLanthir Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by Nephaerius
    why is the PvP any good if the combat is terrible? the combat is still the same combat from the Elder Scroll series which is historically the worst aspect of the game. you can't praise it now when everyone through it under the bus before

    No its not even close to the same combat as Elder Scrolls (And How is FPS combat Terrible?)

     

    Its Soft-Lock targeting, basically tab targeting but you use your mouse to lock on.  There is no actual aiming.

    almost correct except if say you are using a bow and a mob steps between you and the mob you have targeted you will actually fire and hit that second mob not the first one :)  So yes you do not have to keep a constant aim however unlike a tab targeting system with a target lock you are not locked onto your target.  So what happens is unlike say a game like WoW if a mob comes between you and your target your target is now that mob.  So if you are fighting a group of mobs you have to make sure your "aim" stays locked onto your intended target.

     

    Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  • EnoliveEnolive Member Posts: 3
    Originally posted by Pirhana7

    Also groups will make much better rewards because playe rkill points are based off of damage done, not tagging like in GW2.  You wont make as many rewards by zerging.

    While I'm encouraged by what I've read about this PvP system, Zenimax Studios missed the mark for a near-perfect PvP system, but still has a chance to straighten out one item.

     

    PROBLEM: DPS races for kills and rewards is not supportive at all of PvP healers or tanks. That is not such a great system and will eventually starve the forces of support roles and become overrun with DPS classes.

     

    SOLUTION: Contribution points can (and should) be calculated for support roles, as well. It just requires some developer brain power. One way is to include a number of contributing factors (numbers) like damage taken, heals given, # of ppl buffed, and synergies started as an equivalent to damage dealt for calculating rewards to participation in PvP/AvA battle.

     

    Enolive, Co-Guild Leader
    The Band
    http://bandbrothers-tdd.enjin.com

  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,043
    Of course meta will impact this and there isn't much Zenimax can do to stop it, only mitigate it. Be it spies to determine when high volumes are on or not, direct mucking of combat similar to PotBS port battles where 4-6 on either side never fire a shot and run LoS blocking on bigger ships. Meta will play in, it's just the nature of the beast.
  • blazzen67blazzen67 Member Posts: 65
    Originally posted by dreycraft
    Originally posted by blazzen67
    Originally posted by dreycraft
    I was already beyond pumped for this game after playing the beta last weekend, which incidentally I only got to level 8, and I was having such a blast exploring, gathering materials, trying out all the crafting, talking to random npcs, reading books and doing quests all while loving the scenery along the way. This was all pre-level 10 so I'm still wondering why you're calling it a "snoozefest"? That's all I've played of the game so far and this is what has hooked me and convinced me to pre-order my physical imperial edition. Under level 10 for me was anything but a snoozefest, I'm guessing it just seems that way because after level 10 it's just that much better? Anyways I was already beyond pumped, and this article, which was great by the way, has me pretty much foaming at the mouth for launch. The fact that Cyrodiil in ESO is still the same size as it was in Oblivion is incredible, and it is all a PvP playground with tons and tons and tons of content. All of your experiences from being in a big "blob"(lol), to playing lone wolf and finding smaller skirmishes, or sneaking around pulling off quick solo kills sounds ridiculously fun. Hopefully the performance continues to hold up even after release, but I'm confident it will if it is in a beta. And what's going to make it guaranteed to be awesome is because of their megaserver technology. We won't have to worry about downtimes, or less populated servers causing Cyrodiil to be empty because the tech will make sure there's always enough players together in the zone to have awesome battles. Hopefully this all ends up as great as it's sounding so far.
     

    i think most call it a snooze fest because they want to hurry up and level as fast as they can, so they can try to be the first to level 50, like the life of the game is only a month instead of years, or they think its a race instead of an MMORPG. i was the same as you, i loved going off exploring, talking to every NPC, and not just the ones with a quest marker over there heads (which by the way, i found even more quests that way) , crafting, finding resources for crafting..there is more to this game than just following the main quests and to race to the finish.  the last 2 beta's convinced me to pre order this game and cant wait for launch..great game.

    Good to see another person who gets it. There was someone commenting above, can't remember his/her handle, don't really care, saying that the first 10 levels was THE worst experience they've ever had. Obviously this person is from the new mmorpg generation of players, who want to rush to cap and everything handed to them without much work involved. To say it was that horrendous is ridiculous.

     
     

    yes it is ridiculous, and if you read a lot of the reviews..there first reviews were based on just a few hours of game time..then when they put more time into the game they changed there mind, Angry Joe is a great example of this. first he hated it, then after putting in more time and playing PVP he is now addicted and is going to buy it. and the new mmorpg generation was brought up on F2P games and wow..anything that breaks either of those 2 molds, they automatically bash the game. they also think since F2P exist, that it must cost these developers zero to make and cost nothing to maintain these games, so when they see"sub fee" they freak out and say.,.the game is going to suck, without even playing one second of it..they have been scammed by the dreaded F2P system, plain and simple.  but i digress :) im counting the days till i get to play on march 30th..till then im picking up Thief next tuesday to take up the time :)

  • KStormKStorm Member Posts: 2

    I've seen a lot of negative feedback on the first 10 levels of advancement for this game, and I have to disagree. I think most people who don't like it have a singular focus: leveling up. Unfortunately, that's not the drive in an Elder Scrolls game. It's the story, immersion, detail, and  visuals. Personally, I think the story is just fine for at least two of the alliances: Ebonheart and Aldmeri (I have not played Daggerfall yet).

    The game felt like a grind to me ONLY because I hadn't experienced PvP yet, and was anxious to do so before the beta ended. I actually wanted to take it all in at a slower pace. I think for people who keep referring to the first 10 levels as a 'grind' need to realize that they are personally making it a grind. Also, I would classify a grind as having to do the same thing over and over in the same area (I felt WoW was terrible at this). I did not feel like I was doing the same thing over and over again in ESO. There was always something new and refreshing with every quest, and then you'd stumble onto something unrelated through exploration to participate in as well. It was also nice to revisit NPCs you helped several levels ago, which helps highlight how the world, politics, and state of affairs change over time.

    I'm curious if there are others who feel the same way as I do.

     
     
  • HaralinHaralin Member UncommonPosts: 148
    Originally posted by udon
    I find it interesting that the 2nd wave of previews that came from people who played the game past the tutorial zones are much more positive.

    the good thing is you can now skip the starter island ;)

  • Jaychi72Jaychi72 Member UncommonPosts: 70
    Originally posted by bcbully

    This^^ I wont level another to 10 until launch. 

                                                                  ^That

  • uberowouberowo Member Posts: 18

    The main problem with Warhammer, aside from an engine not capable of large scale pvp, was its piss poor frontier-design (full of bottlenecks, valleys and steep hills) and it's utterly disgraceful keep designs (where you barely had range to fire your spells and arrows from the walls directly to the ground below, never mind trying to hit attacking enemies in the distance)..

    I still think one of the most important elements to the success of DAoC was it's class diversity, and most important of all; the speed classes. The speed classes add a completely different dynamic to the game and allows smaller groups to roam the frontiers without necessarily being stomped by the zerg whenever they encounter it.

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