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Complaining about the starter area's?

ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
in Elder Scrolls Online

I think there can be many players who might be completely new to these type of games or this genre and have no idea how things work. So shouldn't it be logical for game developers to create a somewhat handholding, easy to understand starting area?

Sure most of us here on the forums have plenty experiance when it comes to most of the basics in MMO/rpg's and with most MMORPG's the game often starts after level 10 or 20 because then we might be passed the "learning curve"

I just do not understand how people can review or even have a opinion if they didn't go passed the learning stage especially when I read it from "experianced" MMO players.

Some say a game needs to grab you right away and I do agree that games should do that. But with MMO's or MMORPG I always welcome that new player with no experiance and already know that passed the introduction of the game is where I will get to know the actuall game (sort of speak)

Just wanted to get this of my chest.......

 

 

«134

Comments

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    The starter areas are as dull as tombs, it's a valid complaint people have about them.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • -aLpHa--aLpHa- Member UncommonPosts: 852

    Originally posted by Reklaw
    I think there can be many players who might be completely new to these type of games or this genre and have no idea how things work. So shouldn't it be logical for game developers to create a somewhat handholding, easy to understand starting area?

    Sure most of us here on the forums have plenty experiance when it comes to most of the basics in MMO/rpg's and with most MMORPG's the game often starts after level 10 or 20 because then we might be passed the "learning curve"

    I just do not understand how people can review or even have a opinion if they didn't go passed the learning stage especially when I read it from "experianced" MMO players.

    Some say a game needs to grab you right away and I do agree that games should do that. But with MMO's or MMORPG I always welcome that new player with no experiance and already know that passed the introduction of the game is where I will get to know the actuall game (sort of speak)

    Just wanted to get this of my chest.......

     

     

    A MMO needs to grab you right away, you will only have one first impression and most new MMO players actually quit in the first few hours, Blizzard wrote a article about that at some point.

  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    The starter areas are as dull as tombs, it's a valid complaint people have about them.

    It depends which faction you choose, the Aldmeri Dominion had an excellent starting area packed with quests and a nice area.

    The least starting area I did enjoy was the Ebonheard Pack, playing as a Nord. That was a little dull.

     

    You really did play all 3 starting areas ? Aldmeri was great for me.

  • RelGnRelGn Member Posts: 494
    Originally posted by -aLpHa-

     

    Originally posted by Reklaw
    I think there can be many players who might be completely new to these type of games or this genre and have no idea how things work. So shouldn't it be logical for game developers to create a somewhat handholding, easy to understand starting area?

     

    Sure most of us here on the forums have plenty experiance when it comes to most of the basics in MMO/rpg's and with most MMORPG's the game often starts after level 10 or 20 because then we might be passed the "learning curve"

    I just do not understand how people can review or even have a opinion if they didn't go passed the learning stage especially when I read it from "experianced" MMO players.

    Some say a game needs to grab you right away and I do agree that games should do that. But with MMO's or MMORPG I always welcome that new player with no experiance and already know that passed the introduction of the game is where I will get to know the actuall game (sort of speak)

    Just wanted to get this of my chest.......

     

     

     

    A MMO needs to grab you right away, you will only have one first impression and most new MMO players actually quit in the first few hours, Blizzard wrote a article about that at some point.

    I agree

    image
  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by -aLpHa-

     

    Originally posted by Reklaw
    I think there can be many players who might be completely new to these type of games or this genre and have no idea how things work. So shouldn't it be logical for game developers to create a somewhat handholding, easy to understand starting area?

     

    Sure most of us here on the forums have plenty experiance when it comes to most of the basics in MMO/rpg's and with most MMORPG's the game often starts after level 10 or 20 because then we might be passed the "learning curve"

    I just do not understand how people can review or even have a opinion if they didn't go passed the learning stage especially when I read it from "experianced" MMO players.

    Some say a game needs to grab you right away and I do agree that games should do that. But with MMO's or MMORPG I always welcome that new player with no experiance and already know that passed the introduction of the game is where I will get to know the actuall game (sort of speak)

    Just wanted to get this of my chest.......

     

     

     

    A MMO needs to grab you right away, you will only have one first impression and most new MMO players actually quit in the first few hours, Blizzard wrote a article about that at some point.

    Yeah it might just be me that I only think that way about other genre of games as said I keep in mind that new player who has never touched a MMO or MMORPG.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
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  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by spizz
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    The starter areas are as dull as tombs, it's a valid complaint people have about them.

    It depends which faction you choose, the Aldmeri Dominion had an excellent starting area packed with quests and a nice area.

    The least starting area I did enjoy was the Ebonheard Pack, playing as a Nord. That was a little dull.

    You really did play all 3 starting areas ? Aldmeri was great for me.

    Yeah, I agree that the Ebonheart Pact was the weakest starting area.  But, bizarrely enough, I still liked it better than Aldmeri, despite the fact that the AD area was technically better done, because I just dislike the narrative reality of the Aldmeri Dominion.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • HengistHengist Member RarePosts: 1,315

    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Yeah it might just be me that I only think that way about other genre of games as said I keep in mind that new player who has never touched a MMO or MMORPG.


    No, it's not just you, plenty of the media preview's have expressed the exact same thing, and the truth is, those are from people with no skin in the game. They are not predisposed to like or dislike, they are just playing what they see. It's no surprise that after the game opened up a little at level 10 that a few of 'em started to enjoy the game more.

    This one is on Zenimax. You can't tell someone to slog thru 4-5 hours of content before a game get's "fun". That may work for people who are invested already, but for the Joe Average gamer, that's a tough pill to swallow.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    Originally posted by -aLpHa-

     

    A MMO needs to grab you right away, you will only have one first impression and most new MMO players actually quit in the first few hours, Blizzard wrote a article about that at some point.

    ^^This^^

    If a game doesn't get my attention with an hour of playing, I uninstall and don't look back.

    Except in alpha/betas for games, because they're always changing and can get better, need to be tested. I played this one since mid 2013 and I actually had to force myself to test it. I kept hoping it would get better. I really wanted to like it. Just turned out to be a typical themepark game instead. :(

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • DamediusDamedius Member Posts: 346
    Originally posted by spizz

    It depends which faction you choose, the Aldmeri Dominion had an excellent starting area packed with quests and a nice area.

    The least starting area I did enjoy was the Ebonheard Pack, playing as a Nord. That was a little dull.

     

    You really did play all 3 starting areas ? Aldmeri was great for me.

    I acutally liked the Ebonheart Pact starting area.

    The Daggerfall Covenant was the one I found a bit dull. However part of this could have been because it was a reroll. Whereas my first character was a Nord.

  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971
    Originally posted by Damedius
    Originally posted by spizz

    It depends which faction you choose, the Aldmeri Dominion had an excellent starting area packed with quests and a nice area.

    The least starting area I did enjoy was the Ebonheard Pack, playing as a Nord. That was a little dull.

     

    You really did play all 3 starting areas ? Aldmeri was great for me.

    I acutally liked the Ebonheart Pact startting area.

    The Daggerfall Covenant was the one I found a bit dull. However part of this could have been because it was a reroll. Whereas my first character was a Nord.

    Try Aldmeri in the next beta =)

  • -aLpHa--aLpHa- Member UncommonPosts: 852

    Originally posted by spizz
    Originally posted by Damedius Originally posted by spizz It depends which faction you choose, the Aldmeri Dominion had an excellent starting area packed with quests and a nice area. The least starting area I did enjoy was the Ebonheard Pack, playing as a Nord. That was a little dull.   You really did play all 3 starting areas ? Aldmeri was great for me.
    I acutally liked the Ebonheart Pact startting area. The Daggerfall Covenant was the one I found a bit dull. However part of this could have been because it was a reroll. Whereas my first character was a Nord.
    Try Aldmeri in the next beta =)

    I can already foresee a huge faction imbalance, AngryJoe also said the same thing. Play a Mage class and make a Dominion char, lol.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by Baikal

     

    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Yeah it might just be me that I only think that way about other genre of games as said I keep in mind that new player who has never touched a MMO or MMORPG.

     


    No, it's not just you, plenty of the media preview's have expressed the exact same thing, and the truth is, those are from people with no skin in the game. They are not predisposed to like or dislike, they are just playing what they see. It's no surprise that after the game opened up a little at level 10 that a few of 'em started to enjoy the game more.

    This one is on Zenimax. You can't tell someone to slog thru 4-5 hours of content before a game get's "fun". That may work for people who are invested already, but for the Joe Average gamer, that's a tough pill to swallow.

    Will Joe Average be as informed as most of us "experianced" MMORPG players? I think Joe will play the game and judge it by what is given to him. We...if I might say we are far more experianced within this genre sp logical the first hours entering might come of as boring to most of us. And while I have very limited play time in rl those so called boring hours 4/5 or maybe even 7 are meaningless to me when it comes to what a MMORPG can or could provide.

    But hey that's just me.....

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431
    Originally posted by greenreen

    I think it depends partly on how you choose to play. There are quest markers all over especially in the starting area. If you go into it following arrow after arrow on your map, you can make it as boring as you like and you probably will use next next next unless you are interested in knowing the story of the characters you are helping.

    I played it a little different. My goal was to reach level 10 in crafting and character lvl for the beta test. So, while I was finding materials for my crafting, I did quests as I found them.

    Once I noticed that crafting wasn't advancing me and the true way to grind it out was questing I hit lvl 10 in crafting then I stopped enjoying the game my way (my way of enjoyment was the wandering around). So I beared down and became the true beta tester. I listened to the voiceovers, did the quests, followed the arrows, reported any bugs along the way and was very much on rails.

    What I saw were a few people asking how they finished a quest where you had to help townies before a town was being evacuated. Those people were asking how and saying the quest was bugged but what I knew was that I had found those townies when I was out exploring. You weren't led to them with the arrows, you had to seek them out and they had arrows on them but you had to notice those were unexplored places on your map that other quests didn't send you to. In my mind, those players were following arrows and not exploring but expecting the arrows to lead them.

    I gave them feeedback that I think people will be prone to doing this instead of seeking out their own adventure and that maybe we don't need all the arrows or they can be turned off part-time but it's a little late into the game to expect that. Instead I expect people to have enough sense to drop off the well paved path if they want to see more than quest, next, quest, next because the game won't force you to step off the path from what I found. It thinks that if you want to quest instead of explore, that's your choice and it will let you be led by arrows if you want to be.

    That was the biggest thing I saw in the reviews is that the players went arrow to arrow then said boring. They brought boredom on themselves but didn't recognize it. After I had made my goals for the beta I relaxed and went around in first person exploring the detail of the game and some ships. Looted some recipes and crates and barrels and chests, it got back to what I liked just by changing the way I played, nothing in the game changed. There were still arrows there to follow, I just chose not to.

    I think too that one of the reasons they wanted to give the arrows was that some people coming into this game are new to MMOs but then again, I thought I read that on first release of beta there were no arrows and the beta testers ASKED for them so what's that about. Did the beta testers change the feel of the game enough to make people call it railed and boring, maybe because ignoring those arrows made me like the game more once I finished the beta tasks.

    Nicely put, but unfortunately we all know it is wasted here. Especially those players that just close there eyes and ears to race to 50. And anything that slows them down from that path is boring and in the way of the "real game".

     

    I played as you did. I did rush through the first part, I had seen it a bunch of youtube and didn't have much interest in doing much there. But as soon as I got to the starting Island, I just wanted to go out and explore. So I talked to the main quest givers, picked up my quests and then started running around looking at everything. Trying to talk to random NPCs just to see if they could have a quests without a marker and some did.

     

    Running out in a directed you wanted and finding things as they come makes it more interesting. Quests just come as you find them. Then finding a chest with a treasure map in it was cool. I though it was well done for those that take advantage. But as you say, if you just click, click, click, follow the trail, complete, rinse and repeat. It will be boring.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • Unknown

    I have been complaining about MMO starter areas for going on 10 years.  But I have been playing CRPGs for going on 30 years, so it was just one those "These things suck but I like the rest enough to tolerate it and get through it as fast as hell".  Its like eating green beans, you just swallow them like pills cause they taste like shit but you get spanked if you don't.  Well they taste like shit to me and I got spanked for it.  Some of you crazy fuckers actually think they taste good because you are crazy.

     

    The reviewers have no excuse they are negligent pieces of crap.  But so is the entire media/press as a whole even outside of gaming.  

     

    But the reviewers do focus on this for a real reason there are in fact many people who share my distaste for starter areas as they have been typically implemented but do not share 30 years of CRPG playing.  So its something talk about ....................... in a shallow and careless manner.

     

    I still don't eat green beans.  If you think an MMORPG should do the equivalent of making people eat their green beans because its good for them well  its not  a successful practice.  Only the people actually like the taste actually think it a good idea.  Its a non-solution.

     

    While "reviewers" (the problem is probably this claim to some sort of authority they are really just talkers, which would be fine) are basically extremely shallow they also tend to be extremely keyed to their audiences and they understand on a much much better level that you DO NOT do this to adults.  It really really does not work.

  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971
    Originally posted by -aLpHa-

     

    Originally posted by spizz
    Originally posted by Damedius
    Originally posted by spizz It depends which faction you choose, the Aldmeri Dominion had an excellent starting area packed with quests and a nice area. The least starting area I did enjoy was the Ebonheard Pack, playing as a Nord. That was a little dull.   You really did play all 3 starting areas ? Aldmeri was great for me.
    I acutally liked the Ebonheart Pact startting area. The Daggerfall Covenant was the one I found a bit dull. However part of this could have been because it was a reroll. Whereas my first character was a Nord.
    Try Aldmeri in the next beta =)

     

    I can already foresee a huge faction imbalance, AngryJoe also said the same thing. Play a Mage class and make a Dominion char, lol.

     

    I really dont care about this Angry Joke hehe, it is a player like everyone in beta except he did make a questionable review before he even reached at least lvl 10 or more.

  • HengistHengist Member RarePosts: 1,315

    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Will Joe Average be as informed as most of us "experianced" MMORPG players? I think Joe will play the game and judge it by what is given to him. We...if I might say we are far more experianced within this genre sp logical the first hours entering might come of as boring to most of us. And while I have very limited play time in rl those so called boring hours 4/5 or maybe even 7 are meaningless to me when it comes to what a MMORPG can or could provide.But hey that's just me.....

    I'm 100% with you.

    In the years that I've been playing, I've changed, lots of other stuff going on, less time to play, and hence my time is more valuable. I'd tried to stay away from the game when I heard about it, so I would not get caught up with all the hype, speculation, and inevitable changes. I don't want to say I was clueless about the title, but about as clueless about an MMO as I have been interested in since I caught the tail end of the UO beta.

    Being honest, I spent a little time with ESO and could not get into it, I played a few hours, and just.....put it down. There was no "I'm on the fence", it was pretty much, "Yeah...nope." I had a little extra free time, and got a character past level 10, and suddenly I got hooked, the light went on. PvP, everything. I was on board, no I don't think it's a perfect experience, but I think it'll entertain me for awhile, and that's rare for an MMO these days.

    I'm no programmer, but I really think Zenimax should have made an effort to bring some of what makes things more entertaining post 10 to the starter areas. I suspect they will lose potential subscribers because people won't get past how the first few hours play out. I'd like to think with my years playing I've been around the block, but with my play style these days, they almost missed me. Their loss on the box sale and subscription, and my loss for something that I'd find entertaining.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    The starter areas are as dull as tombs, it's a valid complaint people have about them.

    If you go in expecting to be rewarded with a level up for talking to the first guy with a ? over his head than yea it's going to seem slow (I.E. dull)l.  If you go in expecting to be level 4-5 after leaving the island after several hours of questing than it's really not that bad.  Sure it could use more random little things spread out around the zone to encourage exploring but "dull as tombs" I don't think so unless you talking about zombie infested tombs.

    MMO's in general have trivialized the first 20 levels or so over the last 10+ years and that hasn't been a good thing if you ask me.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    The starter areas are as dull as tombs, it's a valid complaint people have about them.

    If you go in expecting to be rewarded with a level up for talking to the first guy with a ? over his head than yea it's going to seem slow (I.E. dull)l.  If you go in expecting to be level 4-5 after leaving the island after several hours of questing than it's really not that bad.  Sure it could use more random little things spread out around the zone to encourage exploring but "dull as tombs" I don't think so unless you talking about zombie infested tombs.

    MMO's in general have trivialized the first 20 levels or so over the last 10+ years and that hasn't been a good thing if you ask me.

    I found the starter areas refreshing.  Especially the way they simultaneously cater to the completionist and the story-skipper.  If you enjoy the area and want to experience everything, there is lots to do, but if you just want to get to the rest of the game, almost all of the content can be skipped. (But not without consequences in the way the area's last quest plays out.)

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • PyatraPyatra Member Posts: 644
    I thought while some starting areas where a little slow, that is was passible for people trying to get the hang of the game.
  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Personally I liked the Starter Islands. They had interesting stories going on which introduced you to the world and faction. I dunno why people felt the islands were lame and they just wanted to leave. *shrug*

    Cold hearbor was lame. I wish we could skip that after doing it once for every follow up character.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • Unknown
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Personally I liked the Starter Islands. They had interesting stories going on which introduced you to the world and faction. I dunno why people felt the islands were lame and they just wanted to leave. *shrug*

    Cold hearbor was lame. I wish we could skip that after doing it once for every follow up character.

    Tell someone they can't something and they will try to do it. 

    Fact of the matter is if you COULD have left the island less people would have tried to leave it.  People are funny that way.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Personally I liked the Starter Islands. They had interesting stories going on which introduced you to the world and faction. I dunno why people felt the islands were lame and they just wanted to leave. *shrug*

    Cold hearbor was lame. I wish we could skip that after doing it once for every follow up character.

    People who hate having stories in the games they play aren't going to consider it a positive when an area has interesting stories.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • IgorchtIgorcht Member UncommonPosts: 82

    This is literally the MMO that I've played that was so boring I could not bear to play it long enough to get out of the starting areas.

     

    That's how boring the game is. Certainly I recognize that starting areas are almost never the best areas in a game, and I can accept that the low levels and starting areas in MMOs are generally somewhat tedious (though I don't think they should be tedious, I can tolerate that they are), but this is the only one that had areas so dull and uninteresting that I just couldn't be bothered. 

     

    The story wasn't even remotely interesting and I couldn't bring myself to care about any of the characters, and I'm typically someone who like story in games, even in MMOs.

    "I am the weapon that strikes/In the hearts of men I thrive/Feeding their fear with lies/I will devour/I will divide/I am the god of hellfire/inside every man there lives a liar/before their gods they cower/I will divide/I will devour" - "Divide Devour" by Iced Earth

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    I was so immersed into the game I never noticed anything wrong with the starter area.
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