I find it amusing that the advocates of subs criticise f2p as buy to win or pay to play. ESO has already crossed that line with the CE and Imperial race. It has already started as a game with a pay gate, and I'm sure there will be many things to come that subbers don't get without paying more, so let's not hear any more rubbish that subs will keep ESO from being a pay to win game, it already is that.
As for sub or f2p. Personally I've subbed to every game I've played all the way from UO, EQ, DAoC and on and on... So I have a lot of experience of subbing to games. Unfortunately the sub model doesn't work any more. It's not true to say it keeps away an anti-social element (look at WoW) and Lake of Ill Omen chat back in old EQ was troll heaven. It's also not true that f2p means a shoddy third rate game, look at LOTRO. I've played lotro since launch and I'm a lifer and the f2p model has made no difference to me at all in terms of the playability and quality of the game and lotro has gone from strength to strength.
In my experience and opinion subscriptions do not guarantee a better game and a better game experience. So, after years of subbing I'm just no longer prepared to pay over £100 a year for a game, no matter how great that game may be. It's that simple.
LOTRO is now my preferred model. VIP access, luckily I bought that lifetime sub six years ago, and a cash shop which means I can spend my money how I like when I like and as little or as much as I like. I'd rather control that monthly $10 a month or whatever than have it swallowed by the games company and not spent on any improvements in game. To be honest why would anyone sub to any game these days? If you want to throw your hard earned cash away I'll send you my paypal details.
I'm sure all this academic any way because it will be a f2p game in a few months regardless.
What I read was personal experience from past choices wall of text and a passive aggressive finisher. So I take it you've played the game or have you?
I would also like to know from your experience playing ESO why you think it will go F2P in a few months? If you haven't played it I presume you are intimatly familiar with the features of the actual game the would promote a F2P model or a Sub model?
Yes, I've played the last two Beta weekends and have 3 characters, the highest 15th level. In my opinion it doesn't not warrent a monthly subscription as it doesn't offer much more than a f2p game like LOTRO and I can't be sure my monthly sub would be spent on improving the game beyond what we might expect from a f2p game with a cash shop.
It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.
Why do I think it will go f2p eventually? Because all recently released mmos have, despite everyone saying they wouldn't. Maybe I'll be wrong, I only have experience to go on.
Dunno. People don't whine and complain that the latest Call of Duty isn't free. They don't demand a month free trial to test it first to make sure it's decent before dropping money on it (and yet most P2P MMOs happily provide this.) People seem to want a game that will keep them occupied longer than Call of Duty, and provide constant content updates and included expansions (that a single player game will not,) but for some silly reason are unwilling to actually pay the same price they would for that single player FPS (or whatever other game we're referring to.) Obviously that $15 is going to continued development as well, so it's not like it's not going to the game you play and expanding it.
Now just imagine those same FPSs as free to play. They end up like Planetside. Where if you want to uncap your skills to actually be on par with others or use certain weapons, or have access to particular vehicles, you have to pay.
CoD F2P : : "I can't wait til next month's allowance so I can afford the Grenade accessory upgrade. Or should I get the tank driver certification? Or maybe it'd be better if I could cut my rez time down by ten minutes."
Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates. Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.) Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.
I'm not going into that discussion because to be honest it really doesn't matter.
The question was simple really, there is no need to get carried away so much.
From Gervaise's answer I take that he chooses B2P because he fears that the Zenimax won't be able to invest in game progress otherwise. So basically according to him, and perhaps you to, with the P2P model there is not enough room for game progress.
I personally really don't care how they manage it, as long as they keep those updates coming. I'm not inspecting the plane either when I travel. I assume the pilot and crew have done the necessary.
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
Dunno. People don't whine and complain that the latest Call of Duty isn't free. They don't demand a month free trial to test it first to make sure it's decent before dropping money on it (and yet most P2P MMOs happily provide this.) People seem to want a game that will keep them occupied longer than Call of Duty, and provide constant content updates and included expansions (that a single player game will not,) but for some silly reason are unwilling to actually pay the same price they would for that single player FPS (or whatever other game we're referring to.) Obviously that $15 is going to continued development as well, so it's not like it's not going to the game you play and expanding it.
Now just imagine those same FPSs as free to play. They end up like Planetside. Where if you want to uncap your skills to actually be on par with others or use certain weapons, or have access to particular vehicles, you have to pay.
CoD F2P : : "I can't wait til next month's allowance so I can afford the Grenade accessory upgrade. Or should I get the tank driver certification? Or maybe it'd be better if I could cut my rez time down by ten minutes."
Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates. Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.) Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.
I don't think it's obvious subs will be spent on continued development.
The only real reason in favor of F2P or B2P I read so far was that Zenimax would have enough budget for content updates.
Come on, we've seen many people call out for B2P or F2P. Why do you think it should be this way? And what could change your mind?
Oh right someone also mentioned it's not worth a sub due to low quality, which is very general. Would have been cool if he said what needs to be added/changed before it's sub worthy.
Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates. Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.) Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.
PS4 users do. Only very select games can be played online w/o a PS+ sub fee. They may still have it better, who knows PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A CONSOLE WAR. CONSOLES ARE INFERERIOR TO PC...which is still another topic.
You also left out games like CoD have a P2W cash shop. They call it DLC.
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.
and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.
what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
I'm worried that if a cash shop comes, development will focus more on Sparkle Ponies and Candy Cane Finishers than actual game play development.
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.
and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.
what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.
I played SWTOR. Bought the collector's edition even.
Worst f2p transition possible. If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions. If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop. BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.
Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
Because a cash shop takes development time away from the team, while simultaneously allowing people who want to drop their entire paycheck on the shop advantages over those who don't.
It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.
You pay $1260 a year for cable.
If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year
If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets
You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get around to various forms of entertainment
A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars
-----------------------------
What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment. And that's if you even MAKE the whole year. If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month. So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.
Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates. Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.) Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.
PS4 users do. Only very select games can be played online w/o a PS+ sub fee. They may still have it better, who knows PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A CONSOLE WAR. CONSOLES ARE INFERERIOR TO PC...which is still another topic.
You also left out games like CoD have a P2W cash shop. They call it DLC.
Sorry not trying to turn it into a console war. I personally have never used either online service, so I do not know. I'd only heard that people could play Dark Souls for free on Playstation, but had to pay for Xbox Gold if they wanted it. I apologize if I erred in my statement.
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.
and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.
what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.
I played SWTOR. Bought the collector's edition even.
Worst f2p transition possible. If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions. If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop. BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.
Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.
Agreed. I stopped playing TOR when it went cash stop. Suddenly all the money I'd dumped into the game became meaningless to the company. They gave me like 500 Cartel Coins or something stupid, despite me having paid several hundred dollars on sub and box. And then I suddenly had to pay extra if I wanted shit that I had BEFORE. It was the most retarded thing. I dropped the game immediately afterward and sent a very angry email saying I'd never buy another one of their products.
The icing for me, was that it took them something like 4 months of development time to implement the cash shop (where we had virtually no updates, aside from maybe 2 bugs fixed each time,) and then we get the cash shop + about 20 outfits (skimpier the better, apparently,) and half a dozen mounts (the bigger and more obtrusive the better,) that appeared to be all they'd spent their time on.
Personally I'd prefer a B2P model that sells most content access. I think that would be a great way to go. Problem is most games that do that also offer a sub option that gives you some perks only available with sub so you kinda feel forced to sub. But a good buy as you go option would make an MMO feel like you are paying for content and not power but you aren't obligated to play 24/7 because of a sub. Sometimes a sub makes me feel like if I don't play for a week I wasted my money.
It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.
You pay $1260 a year for cable.
If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year
If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets
You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get around to various forms of entertainment
A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars
-----------------------------
What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment. And that's if you even MAKE the whole year. If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month. So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.
YES. THANK YOU.
Some people even pay a lot more than that for their TV service. $100/month is more like a bundled basic price, at least with Comcast. I know some people that pay twice that for a few extra channels and those special networks that you have to add-on.
I always figure with MMOs that if I'm playing it, then I should be playing it at least 10 hours a week (if I'm not, it's probably not good enough to stay subscribed,) which, if I wanted to go get that much entertainment from movies or paintball or something, would cost me -at least- 50 bucks a week, meaning $150-200 value per month.
I mean, shit, I'm a poor mofo and I consider it chump change. The only time I thought it was a lot of money was when I was too young to work a job (and I started working at 14.)
Originally posted by mad-hatter I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way. Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency. Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.
and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.
what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.
I played SWTOR. Bought the collector's edition even.
Worst f2p transition possible. If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions. If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop. BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.
Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.
i did pretty much state all of that but im bad with words sometimes :P
and i do agree with you completly it is one of the best worst examples of how mixing F2P and P2P togther can go horribly wrong.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Personally I'd prefer a B2P model that sells most content access. I think that would be a great way to go. Problem is most games that do that also offer a sub option that gives you some perks only available with sub so you kinda feel forced to sub. But a good buy as you go option would make an MMO feel like you are paying for content and not power but you aren't obligated to play 24/7 because of a sub. Sometimes a sub makes me feel like if I don't play for a week I wasted my money.
B2P was great until they decided to throw in a cash shop with the mix. And then every freaking content update half the changes/additions is stupid shit to said cash shop that was supposed to be purely "convenience" and "vanity" (of which it is, perhaps, too much of both.) -- referring to GW2 of course.
Donno why people who are P2P enthusiasts keep posting P2P vs F2P arguments here on MMORPG.com. It's been proven many times that this site's community prefers P2P and that any logical pro-F2P argument will get run over by anti-F2P lies and opinion. If you want an actual discussion on the topic then you should go to a site forum that has a more F2P stance but that's not what you want, is it? You just want people to boast your already fragile opinion on the topic.
It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.
You pay $1260 a year for cable.
If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year
If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets
You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get around to various forms of entertainment
A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars
-----------------------------
What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment. And that's if you even MAKE the whole year. If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month. So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.
YES. THANK YOU.
Some people even pay a lot more than that for their TV service. $100/month is more like a bundled basic price, at least with Comcast. I know some people that pay twice that for a few extra channels and those special networks that you have to add-on.
I always figure with MMOs that if I'm playing it, then I should be playing it at least 10 hours a week (if I'm not, it's probably not good enough to stay subscribed,) which, if I wanted to go get that much entertainment from movies or paintball or something, would cost me -at least- 50 bucks a week, meaning $150-200 value per month.
I mean, shit, I'm a poor mofo and I consider it chump change. The only time I thought it was a lot of money was when I was too young to work a job (and I started working at 14.)
P.S. i also got my first job at 14, it was at a snowcone stand gods i would give anything to work a snow cone stadn agian, i luved that job.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.
Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.
They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.
The way I look at subscription fees is that you're paying for the perk to be a part of this social RPG world that costs money to maintain (staff, servers, developers for updates and bug fixing, etc.). It's a whole lot different than a single player game since it's massive in scale and you interact with a world full of other real life human players. Which is why I don't get this drive to make the payment model the same as a single player game (B2P or F2P) . It just does not compute. It's like trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. What you end up with instead is this pathetic drive by developers to scrounge up money elsewhere (like from cash shops, etc.) which ruins immersion and quite often turns into Pay to Win. The People who prefer F2P think money grow on trees, as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by Otakun Donno why people who are P2P enthusiasts keep posting P2P vs F2P arguments here on MMORPG.com. It's been proven many times that this site's community prefers P2P and that any logical pro-F2P argument will get run over by anti-F2P lies and opinion. If you want an actual discussion on the topic then you should go to a site forum that has a more F2P stance but that's not what you want, is it? You just want people to boast your already fragile opinion on the topic.
Why is my opinion fragile? I at least had the courtesy to give examples of my discontent for some games that are f2p.
If you want to say f2p is better/worse/about the same as p2p or b2p than I'm all for an open discussion.
If you want to disregard others' opinions, leaving me with the impression that you feel you are superior and my opinion is less than yours, then that's fine to...but I won't be responding any longer to you if that's the case.
I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.
Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.
They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.
this is my big worry right now as well, to be honest i kinda didnt like the races being restrained by faction to begin with. but the fat that they put so much focus into it and told us time and agian that this had a purpose, and then threw the whole thing out the window leaves me hesitant.
it make me wonder alot whether or not they planned it that way or they did it due to fans complaining about it.
ether way im very much on the fence and unless most of my friends actully decide to get the game pre ordered i prob will wait several months after launch to see what is happening befor i join in if even then
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Comments
Yes, I've played the last two Beta weekends and have 3 characters, the highest 15th level. In my opinion it doesn't not warrent a monthly subscription as it doesn't offer much more than a f2p game like LOTRO and I can't be sure my monthly sub would be spent on improving the game beyond what we might expect from a f2p game with a cash shop.
It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.
Why do I think it will go f2p eventually? Because all recently released mmos have, despite everyone saying they wouldn't. Maybe I'll be wrong, I only have experience to go on.
Dunno. People don't whine and complain that the latest Call of Duty isn't free. They don't demand a month free trial to test it first to make sure it's decent before dropping money on it (and yet most P2P MMOs happily provide this.) People seem to want a game that will keep them occupied longer than Call of Duty, and provide constant content updates and included expansions (that a single player game will not,) but for some silly reason are unwilling to actually pay the same price they would for that single player FPS (or whatever other game we're referring to.) Obviously that $15 is going to continued development as well, so it's not like it's not going to the game you play and expanding it.
Now just imagine those same FPSs as free to play. They end up like Planetside. Where if you want to uncap your skills to actually be on par with others or use certain weapons, or have access to particular vehicles, you have to pay.
CoD F2P : : "I can't wait til next month's allowance so I can afford the Grenade accessory upgrade. Or should I get the tank driver certification? Or maybe it'd be better if I could cut my rez time down by ten minutes."
Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates. Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.) Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.
I'm not going into that discussion because to be honest it really doesn't matter.
The question was simple really, there is no need to get carried away so much.
From Gervaise's answer I take that he chooses B2P because he fears that the Zenimax won't be able to invest in game progress otherwise. So basically according to him, and perhaps you to, with the P2P model there is not enough room for game progress.
I personally really don't care how they manage it, as long as they keep those updates coming. I'm not inspecting the plane either when I travel. I assume the pilot and crew have done the necessary.
Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.
I don't think it's obvious subs will be spent on continued development.
Yes XBOX live gold is a con as well.
The only real reason in favor of F2P or B2P I read so far was that Zenimax would have enough budget for content updates.
Come on, we've seen many people call out for B2P or F2P. Why do you think it should be this way? And what could change your mind?
Oh right someone also mentioned it's not worth a sub due to low quality, which is very general. Would have been cool if he said what needs to be added/changed before it's sub worthy.
PS4 users do. Only very select games can be played online w/o a PS+ sub fee. They may still have it better, who knows PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A CONSOLE WAR. CONSOLES ARE INFERERIOR TO PC...which is still another topic.
You also left out games like CoD have a P2W cash shop. They call it DLC.
because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.
and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.
what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I'm worried that if a cash shop comes, development will focus more on Sparkle Ponies and Candy Cane Finishers than actual game play development.
I played SWTOR. Bought the collector's edition even.
Worst f2p transition possible. If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions. If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop. BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.
Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.
Because a cash shop takes development time away from the team, while simultaneously allowing people who want to drop their entire paycheck on the shop advantages over those who don't.
You pay $1260 a year for cable.
If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year
If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets
You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get around to various forms of entertainment
A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars
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What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment. And that's if you even MAKE the whole year. If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month. So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.
Sorry not trying to turn it into a console war. I personally have never used either online service, so I do not know. I'd only heard that people could play Dark Souls for free on Playstation, but had to pay for Xbox Gold if they wanted it. I apologize if I erred in my statement.
Agreed. I stopped playing TOR when it went cash stop. Suddenly all the money I'd dumped into the game became meaningless to the company. They gave me like 500 Cartel Coins or something stupid, despite me having paid several hundred dollars on sub and box. And then I suddenly had to pay extra if I wanted shit that I had BEFORE. It was the most retarded thing. I dropped the game immediately afterward and sent a very angry email saying I'd never buy another one of their products.
The icing for me, was that it took them something like 4 months of development time to implement the cash shop (where we had virtually no updates, aside from maybe 2 bugs fixed each time,) and then we get the cash shop + about 20 outfits (skimpier the better, apparently,) and half a dozen mounts (the bigger and more obtrusive the better,) that appeared to be all they'd spent their time on.
YES. THANK YOU.
Some people even pay a lot more than that for their TV service. $100/month is more like a bundled basic price, at least with Comcast. I know some people that pay twice that for a few extra channels and those special networks that you have to add-on.
I always figure with MMOs that if I'm playing it, then I should be playing it at least 10 hours a week (if I'm not, it's probably not good enough to stay subscribed,) which, if I wanted to go get that much entertainment from movies or paintball or something, would cost me -at least- 50 bucks a week, meaning $150-200 value per month.
I mean, shit, I'm a poor mofo and I consider it chump change. The only time I thought it was a lot of money was when I was too young to work a job (and I started working at 14.)
i did pretty much state all of that but im bad with words sometimes :P
and i do agree with you completly it is one of the best worst examples of how mixing F2P and P2P togther can go horribly wrong.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
B2P was great until they decided to throw in a cash shop with the mix. And then every freaking content update half the changes/additions is stupid shit to said cash shop that was supposed to be purely "convenience" and "vanity" (of which it is, perhaps, too much of both.) -- referring to GW2 of course.
P.S. i also got my first job at 14, it was at a snowcone stand gods i would give anything to work a snow cone stadn agian, i luved that job.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I was just giving my own perspective. They just so happened to agree with/reinforce yours.
I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.
Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.
They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.
Why is my opinion fragile? I at least had the courtesy to give examples of my discontent for some games that are f2p.
If you want to say f2p is better/worse/about the same as p2p or b2p than I'm all for an open discussion.
If you want to disregard others' opinions, leaving me with the impression that you feel you are superior and my opinion is less than yours, then that's fine to...but I won't be responding any longer to you if that's the case.
this is my big worry right now as well, to be honest i kinda didnt like the races being restrained by faction to begin with. but the fat that they put so much focus into it and told us time and agian that this had a purpose, and then threw the whole thing out the window leaves me hesitant.
it make me wonder alot whether or not they planned it that way or they did it due to fans complaining about it.
ether way im very much on the fence and unless most of my friends actully decide to get the game pre ordered i prob will wait several months after launch to see what is happening befor i join in if even then
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.