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Playing GW requires no skill. Stop insulting twitch players.
Ramonski7
Member UncommonPosts: 2,662
Why do I keep hearing people howl about how much skill it takes to play Guild Wars? Is it me or did they somehow rework their whole combat system to rely solely on the ability of the player behind the toon? As far as I know, no such thing has occurred. Let me elaborate on my point.
FPSs require skill, platformers require skill, hell fighting games require skill. But knowing to bring a gun to a knife fight...........requires knowledge NOT skill. And that's what I'm getting with GW. The combat system in GW requires players to know what they are doing but definately not skill-based. For instance, if your teammates don't bring a certain skill to counter another then you're screwed. If you bring 2 skills to a battle you are bound to lose. But the same cannot be said for a FPS. Each player is allowed the same weapon in a fight so the winner is determined by who is more skilled with that weapon. Who knows the range of the gun better. The rate of fire or the placement of ammo. Until a MMORPG can do this with their combat systems, they will only be fooling themselves.
I love GWs mind you, but I do not believe for a second that skill is involved. Talking with your guildmates so that you guys operate on the same page is a must. You definately want to make sure everyone's skills they pick for a battle work with yours. That requires knowledge, teamwork and communication. Leave skills in the hands of players who have had years of practice and earned them.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Comments
funnily enough, i dont see people howling about gw requiring 'skill', just people criticising it for lacking it as a prerequisite. GW is tactical, in much the same way as most PnC combat games like f.ex Eve. In the end whether this counts as 'skill' is deabtable, just because you don't think it's skill doesn't make it not.
Timing AoE spells, picking targets, dodging attacks, all these things could be considered *skill* because they are not automatic. Anything not automatically done by the AI *could* be considered skill. In the end, who cares? Do little terms like 'skill' and 'MMORPG' really matter that much to people?
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
You just answered your own question. You have to have the knowledge enough to know which of the 8 skills you need before going into battle. Unlike WoW where you have every magic spell on tap, in GW, you have to plan how best to use the 8 slots you are given out of the dozens of spells ou may have.
Knowlegde about your opponents setup and the weapons at your disposal IS skill
You just answered your own question. You have to have the knowledge enough to know which of the 8 skills you need before going into battle. Unlike WoW where you have every magic spell on tap, in GW, you have to plan how best to use the 8 slots you are given out of the dozens of spells ou may have.
Actually I played WoW as well and you don't automaticly get any spells you have to first meet the level requirement and THEN buy the spell/skill also certain spells/skills require you to quest for them or place enough talent points in them to unlock, but that's besides the point. WoW is no more skill based than GW since they both require player to know what to do and when to do it, but saying MMOs require any sense of real skills is a joke when compared to a FPS or platformer.
[i]edited for spelling[i/]
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Please....don't kid yourself. Like I said if you are bringing a knife to a fight and I know and bring a gun. That's knowledge and has absolutely nothing to do with skills.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Could I please have the 2 minutes of my life I wasted reading your post back. GW not skill based? LOL Maybe you need to go play it some more.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
ill agree with knowledge based, not skill based. push t to hit my target.
read alot of forums makes you alot better at this game, that =knowledge not skill.
Sorry that's your lost and since you like wasting your time so much without thinking about what you are doing BEFORE you continue, keep thinking GW is making you a SKILLED player.
I get the feeling you won't realize that either until it's too late....try getting a refund from NCsoft then.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Define skill for me then.
Offcourse when you play a FPS or a platformer, you need skill. What kind of skill ? Targetting skill, running skill jumping skill whatever. Now you could call everything you do in guild wars not skill based, but how do you explain that people get better at it over time ? Their knowledge increases ? Offcourse they learn wich spells are better, but eventually it comes down to the player to chose a skill at a certain point in time. Just like you need to know when to dodge in a fps, or you learn how to lead your shots etc.
Everything could be called knowledge by your standard really. Only thing you might need less in guild wars is skill to move your mouse as precise as you can.
In my honest opinion you cant seperate skill from knowledge, because they both have something to do with each other at some point.
well by that definition , eveyr mmorpg ive played you are much better off with high 'skill' lvl , so whats the big deal about this one?
Sorry that's your lost and since you like wasting your time so much without thinking about what you are doing BEFORE you continue, keep thinking GW is making you a SKILLED player.
I get the feeling you won't realize that either until it's too late....try getting a refund from NCsoft then.
No i'm sorry that you tried to pick what you felt were the most 'uber' skills for your class. Then got your ass handed to you, and felt the need. To come here and proclaim that GWs isn't a skilled based. I'm sorry that Arena.net made a game that you just lack 'skill' in.
I wash my hands of this thread. Because you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Guild Wars requires good strategy, a skill. Choice of the correct tactical planning is strategy, and working that out with a team is equally strategy. GW is a decent game for the devisement of strategy, much like M:TG is.
Guild Wars requires minor tactical skill. The execution of strategy is tactics, but for the most part GW does not make any heavy requirements to be fast on your feet and quick to react. For the most part, if you execute your strategy correctly you will either win because it was the right strategy or lose because it was the wrong strategy. Guild Wars is not forgiving of bringing the right stratregy but having better tactics.
So the idea of "twitch" skill being missing from Guild Wars seems entirely accurate to me. But the idea that Guild Wars requires "no skill" is absolutely false. It requires strategic skill, but not tactical skill.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Who gives a flying fuck?
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Let me elaborate. It's all semantics. This argument means nothing.
Every game requires ability of some type. What type of ability it requires doesn't matter, and comparing apples to oranges will get you squat.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Well lets put it this way:
Guilwars reminds me alot of Magic The Gathering. If you know that, you would know you create a deck to 'go to war' with. How well you know your deck and it's pros and cons will increase your odds of winning, compiling the right deck against a particular type of opponent deck is what'll make you win.
That's a card game, the more you play the better you will get at it. Are you saying being good at it is not considered 'skill' ? Sure you do have a chance of winning with just basic knowledge of the game, but it's inevitable that you will win more often the more you played with your particular deck or the better you know your deck [and when to use which card etc etc].
The fact that you are not going to win based on the -physical- way you pick up or place your cards or even hold your cards does not make it any less skillful of a game.
How about chess? skill required? or just having 'knowledge' of how the queen can move on the board enough? I don't think so.
Knowledge / Skill -- it's all semantics.
SYNONYMS proficient, adept, skilled, skillful, expert. These adjectives mean having or showing knowledge, ability, or skill, as in a profession or field of study. Proficient implies an advanced degree of competence acquired through training: is proficient in Greek and Latin. Adept suggests a natural aptitude improved by practice: became adept at cutting the fabric without using a pattern. Skilled implies sound, thorough competence and often mastery, as in an art, craft, or trade: a skilled gymnast who won an Olympic medal. Skillful adds to skilled the idea of natural dexterity in performance or achievement: is skillful in the use of the hand loom. Expert applies to one with consummate skill and command: an expert violinist who played the sonata flawlessly.
Don't try humoring me with that define skill bs. You know damn well what I mean. When you pit 2 players against each other with the same gear/weapons the winner will be determined by who has more skill. Not by what they are using. I'm talking about reaction time, dexterity, hand-eye coordination and reflexes. That to me is the type of playing field I'm looking for in PvP.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Call it what you mean: tactical skill.
Strategic skill is what they are referring to. Neither of you are wrong.
No, Guild Wars does not have a lot of that. But that does not mean it doesn't require skill. There is a lot more to general Player versus Player games (online and offline) than twitch.
Sorry that's your lost and since you like wasting your time so much without thinking about what you are doing BEFORE you continue, keep thinking GW is making you a SKILLED player.
I get the feeling you won't realize that either until it's too late....try getting a refund from NCsoft then.
No i'm sorry that you tried to pick what you felt were the most 'uber' skills for your class. Then got your ass handed to you, and felt the need. To come here and proclaim that GWs isn't a skilled based. I'm sorry that Arena.net made a game that you just lack 'skill' in.
I wash my hands of this thread. Because you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Wash your hands...and while you're at it wash your face and mouth too. I'm not spiteful if I get my ass served to me in any game. Ass-whuppin is what it takes for you to further develop your skills, but in MMOs it just tells you to use this skill instead of that one next time.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Let me elaborate. It's all semantics. This argument means nothing.
Every game requires ability of some type. What type of ability it requires doesn't matter, and comparing apples to oranges will get you squat.
I'm glad you cleared up your first post before I made a comment about trolling. And to you second post do you even know wtf are you talking about? Did you even read the first freakin paragraph of my topic? If you did then you'd stop trying to play spin-doctor and take a stance. You along with the other self proclaimed forum gurus need to get off your high horse and stop trying to turn this thread into a "What is the true meaning of skill" arguement. Do you not understand where I'm coming from? Or should I "be more specific" when coming up with a forum title? Don't be so petty. Either argue my point or move on.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Why do I keep hearing people howl about how much skill it takes to play Guild Wars? Is it me or did they somehow rework their whole combat system to rely solely on the ability of the player behind the toon? As far as I know, no such thing has occurred. Let me elaborate on my point.
FPSs require skill, platformers require skill, hell fighting games require skill. But knowing to bring a gun to a knife fight...........requires knowledge NOT skill. And that's what I'm getting with GW. The combat system in GW requires players to know what they are doing but definately not skill-based. For instance, if your teammates don't bring a certain skill to counter another then you're screwed. If you bring 2 skills to a battle you are bound to lose. But the same cannot be said for a FPS. Each player is allowed the same weapon in a fight so the winner is determined by who is more skilled with that weapon. Who knows the range of the gun better. The rate of fire or the placement of ammo. Until a MMORPG can do this with their combat systems, they will only be fooling themselves.
I love GWs mind you, but I do not believe for a second that skill is involved. Talking with your guildmates so that you guys operate on the same page is a must. You definately want to make sure everyone's skills they pick for a battle work with yours. That requires knowledge, teamwork and communication. Leave skills in the hands of players who have had years of practice and earned them.
IMO, no MMO really requires that much skill. I couldn't even imagine how skill would be applied in an mmo.
FPSs do require some skill, but every one could be good at it with practice.
Don't try humoring me with that define skill bs. You know damn well what I mean. When you pit 2 players against each other with the same gear/weapons the winner will be determined by who has more skill. Not by what they are using. I'm talking about reaction time, dexterity, hand-eye coordination and reflexes. That to me is the type of playing field I'm looking for in PvP.
A) I wasnt trying to humor you.
C) If you pit 2 players together it might be in-game skills that do the winning. however this game is group oriented, and in a group for example : as monk you have to make decisions. You can make right one's (ress dropped monk real quick in stead of healing), or wrong ones (Keep healing and eventually die because you cant cope). Wich path you chose to take at what times has a lot to do with reaction time and reflection. Maybe not as much a a FPS but it does require skill. Its more thinking then how fast your reaction or hand eye coördination skills are, however, this game (to me) is lightning fast and i catch myself making wrong calls sometimes. And thus i try to iron out those flaws, and gain skill in how to play my character most efectivly.
If you are truely looking for a game that needs hand eye coö rdination and whatnot, i'd say trya FPS, or something like planetside or WWIIOL. They require skill.
For me personally, i like a game where its more about how you play your character and decision taking on key moments that decide the outcome between life and death, then a game that just means the guy who plays the most and is most routined at playing and has the best hand-eye coördination wins.