First, like Star Wars, Elder Scrolls is an IP I am a fan of. I love Star Wars and Elder Scrolls, so when SWTOR failed I was PISSED, just as I am now, because I always wanted an ES MMO, and seeing that IP fails bugs me. If Wildstar fails, I don't care, because the IP means nothing to me. But Star Wars and ES are my Number One fandoms.
Second, same as Bioware, Zenimax had TONS of money. 200- 300 million dollar or so. With that much cash, I expect something better. Where the hell did all that money go?
Third, both SWTOR and ESO had testers and critics who told the companies - Bioware and ZOS - time and again what to improve and what to change. Both Bioware and ZOS had many changes to listen to good and detailled critique, and both Bioware with SWTOR and ZOS with ESO totally ignored almost all critique. They mostly didn't even respond.
Forth, both companies, Bioware and Zenimax (ZOS) developed a MMO totally ignoring there ever was another MMO developed before. They acted as is their MMO was the first MMO ever. All things gamers liked, all things gamers hated - the entire 10-12 years of MMO development was tossed out of the window, as we had NO experience with MMO development whatsoever. If you fail to learn from others you are simply and idiot.
It's these four points why I hated SWTOR/Bioware so much, and why my hate towards ESO/ZOS is so strong right now. Not because their MMOs are so bad, but they had such a big chance, their MMOs SHOULD have been great, and they dropped the ball, despite so many good opportunities to make it better.
There is this thing...called 'vision' in which the game you make is the game you wanted to make. And should be allowed to make it. And people are free to decide if they like your vision or not.
They didn't develop like they were in an MMO vacuum. We had an Auction House. We had a mini map. They looked at our feedback. They looked at the effects of it. They didn't like what the AH did to the economy after they added it. Out the AH goes. They saw that players spent most of their time being lemmings following mini map icons around than actually exploring even the tiniest bit.
Out goes the mini map.
You've seen 0.18 patch notes right?
Collision detection? Bypassing the starter areas, you've seen that, right?
Were you THERE to see all the changes they made to the game since this Jan? I'm willing to bet a lot of that money went to something like...building their own custom game engine? One that allows for hundreds of players to PvP with minimal client side performance issues? One of the most highly praised traits of the game right now?
The game is not perfect. Far from it. Phasing is still a wart on ESO's backside. They dragged their feet on fixing itemization. The game waffled between being face melting hard and face roll and hopefully, on release the balance is right. I STILL think the UI for the abilities should be trees like Skyrim instead of the excel table we have now. And many other issues.
And while I realize it is your opinion, IMO, it's a largely UNFOUNDED opinion. You don't like how they made their game. Fine. You don't like X and y systems. Okay. But don't go claiming it's because they did 'nothing' with feedback or are stupid or wasted money.
You don't have the insight to be making those kinds of claims.
its 2014, gaming has mass appeal and most of the next generation is Emo..
If your not excited to have a new game to play your not a gamer.
If every game you try has 2 many flaws and your still waiting for the next big thing your not a gamer.
People just like to complain on the internets thats just a fact, my advice to the OP is stop caring. Watch videos, try betas / demos and make up your own mind. DO NOT let the vocal minority on gaming forums make you miss a game you might have enjoyed because they trashed it.
TESO is new, refreshing, smoothly coded combat, indepth customization. Will it be your next game for 10 years who knows but what I can tell you is its def worth $60 just like any other game your going to get your value from the purchase, if you decide to continue to pay and play awsome if not you def got your 60 bucks out of the game who cares.
Just an FYI, they have the storyline quest broken on purpose, so to not have content worms eat through the content before the game is released. However, there are some legitimate bugs. I figure it's going to be like Skyrim. It was buggy when it was released, Flying horses anyone? They'll work out the bugs over time. I'm pretty happy with the stability of the game as it is though. One thing that I like is that Zenimax actually changes things in the beta. I've been in so many betas, and a few alphas even, and this game has by far changed the most over the time I've had to play, and just about every change has been for the better too Zenimax seems to actually listen to the beta testers unlike some games (SWTOR, WoW, and TSW to name a few)
its 2014, gaming has mass appeal and most of the next generation is Emo..
If your not excited to have a new game to play your not a gamer.
If every game you try has 2 many flaws and your still waiting for the next big thing your not a gamer.
People just like to complain on the internets thats just a fact, my advice to the OP is stop caring. Watch videos, try betas / demos and make up your own mind. DO NOT let the vocal minority on gaming forums make you miss a game you might have enjoyed because they trashed it.
TESO is new, refreshing, smoothly coded combat, indepth customization. Will it be your next game for 10 years who knows but what I can tell you is its def worth $60 just like any other game your going to get your value from the purchase, if you decide to continue to pay and play awsome if not you def got your 60 bucks out of the game who cares.
It's 2014, do people actually don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'?
Anyway, saying that people are no gamers just because they don't like what is presented to them in games is just ridiculous. EVERY game has flaws, everyone has the right to have his/her own opinion and also, since we're on a forum, to express said opinion.
Of course, people like to complain, especially about MMORPGs. It's a bad trend that, probably, won't vanish any time soon. But praising a game for 'being worth the $60 you'll pay for it' when the game itself isn't out yet is rather ... let's call it naive.
Sure, haters are bad, but the ignorant fanbois who hype their game up like it's the return of Jesus Christ are just as much a cancer in the overall gaming community.
Its growing on me the more I play it, I'm liking it a lot.
I think it does really depend on what class you pick and the area you start in. I've played through two of the starter area's, one was pretty bad (hand holding), but the other was much, much better with lots of stuff to find and explore. On my second run I made a more magic focused character and found myself enjoying the combat more, as I wasn't predominantly using melee.
Ignoring all of the bugs (it is beta and that's what its for), I do think the melee combat is a little lacklustre, its a shame as its almost there, the animation timings are a bit off and pretty jerky. All it needs is tightening up a little, and making sure the swings return back to the default idle smoothly, at the moment they look kind of robotic.
Might just be a visual thing but it really would help in making the combat much more satisfying,...frustrating as its nearly there.
Another Beta weekend and another round of hatefilled posts from players proclaiming the shit that ESO is in their opinion. I just don't get it???
Im not saying ESO is the greatest MMO I have ever played and the future WOW killer but in my honest opinion there is enough in the game, Graphics ,Immersion-Gameplay ect to warrant a purchase and really have me excited for launch.
I can understand those who are burnt on the genre saying ESO does not offer enough new for them to play, But to bash this game the way some have like its the buggiest lamest piece of shit they have ever played just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Im starting to think most of the hate is just bitter Elder Scrolls fans who are pist Skyrim/Oblivion 2 wasn't released and instead a ESO MMO was made, That's my only explanation.
Play any of the following and the reasons might be better understood
Darkfall
Wurm Online
Xyson
Fallen Earth
There are others but I cant speak to them directly because I havent played them
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Another Beta weekend and another round of hatefilled posts from players proclaiming the shit that ESO is in their opinion. I just don't get it???
Im not saying ESO is the greatest MMO I have ever played and the future WOW killer but in my honest opinion there is enough in the game, Graphics ,Immersion-Gameplay ect to warrant a purchase and really have me excited for launch.
I can understand those who are burnt on the genre saying ESO does not offer enough new for them to play, But to bash this game the way some have like its the buggiest lamest piece of shit they have ever played just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Im starting to think most of the hate is just bitter Elder Scrolls fans who are pist Skyrim/Oblivion 2 wasn't released and instead a ESO MMO was made, That's my only explanation.
I'm sure kids in third world countries kicking a piece of wood around in a field think that its fun. But, im sure if you gave those kids the option to go play on a gymnasium in a park they would never ever go back to kicking a piece of wood around in a field for fun.
You are very likely correct that a large portion of the hate is from it not being a "true" elder scrolls experience (how you would do that in an MMO is beyond me, being as elder scrolls has ALWAYS been about the single players experience... oh wait, that is what they did).
The rest of the hate comes from the fact that it is yet another AAA Quest Hub Driven single player "MMO". People are getting sick of it, and justly so.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Another Beta weekend and another round of hatefilled posts from players proclaiming the shit that ESO is in their opinion. I just don't get it???
Im not saying ESO is the greatest MMO I have ever played and the future WOW killer but in my honest opinion there is enough in the game, Graphics ,Immersion-Gameplay ect to warrant a purchase and really have me excited for launch.
I can understand those who are burnt on the genre saying ESO does not offer enough new for them to play, But to bash this game the way some have like its the buggiest lamest piece of shit they have ever played just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Im starting to think most of the hate is just bitter Elder Scrolls fans who are pist Skyrim/Oblivion 2 wasn't released and instead a ESO MMO was made, That's my only explanation.
Play any of the following and the reasons might be better understood
Darkfall
Wurm Online
Xyson
Fallen Earth
There are others but I cant speak to them directly because I havent played them
You'll have to be more specific im not sure i understand what you are trying to say. I Have played fallen earth, it was really cool but the graphic engine was so dated it ruined the game, for me at least.
Another Beta weekend and another round of hatefilled posts from players proclaiming the shit that ESO is in their opinion. I just don't get it???
Im not saying ESO is the greatest MMO I have ever played and the future WOW killer but in my honest opinion there is enough in the game, Graphics ,Immersion-Gameplay ect to warrant a purchase and really have me excited for launch.
I can understand those who are burnt on the genre saying ESO does not offer enough new for them to play, But to bash this game the way some have like its the buggiest lamest piece of shit they have ever played just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Im starting to think most of the hate is just bitter Elder Scrolls fans who are pist Skyrim/Oblivion 2 wasn't released and instead a ESO MMO was made, That's my only explanation.
MMORPG.com's forums is where jaded, unhappy gamers come to bitch (although MMORPG.com's writers have some interesting articles which is why I come here). All the happy people are elsewhere on the interwebs. I have to agree with you the game has been fun and very unexpectedly so for me.
Another Beta weekend and another round of hatefilled posts from players proclaiming the shit that ESO is in their opinion. I just don't get it???
Im not saying ESO is the greatest MMO I have ever played and the future WOW killer but in my honest opinion there is enough in the game, Graphics ,Immersion-Gameplay ect to warrant a purchase and really have me excited for launch.
I can understand those who are burnt on the genre saying ESO does not offer enough new for them to play, But to bash this game the way some have like its the buggiest lamest piece of shit they have ever played just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Im starting to think most of the hate is just bitter Elder Scrolls fans who are pist Skyrim/Oblivion 2 wasn't released and instead a ESO MMO was made, That's my only explanation.
Play any of the following and the reasons might be better understood
Darkfall
Wurm Online
Xyson
Fallen Earth
There are others but I cant speak to them directly because I havent played them
You'll have to be more specific im not sure i understand what you are trying to say. I Have played fallen earth, it was really cool but the graphic engine was so dated it ruined the game, for me at least.
when it originally came out the graphics where pretty good for its time.
That said, your question is a complex one and hard to understand without having played a lot of skill based games.
and no the subject isnt just around skill based vs class based but in my view class based systems are antiquated and skill based makes so much more sense
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
Fun is subjective.
Some people like checkers, others like chess.
Some people hate both and like go-fish.
There is this thing...called 'vision' in which the game you make is the game you wanted to make. And should be allowed to make it. And people are free to decide if they like your vision or not.
They didn't develop like they were in an MMO vacuum. We had an Auction House. We had a mini map. They looked at our feedback. They looked at the effects of it. They didn't like what the AH did to the economy after they added it. Out the AH goes. They saw that players spent most of their time being lemmings following mini map icons around than actually exploring even the tiniest bit.
Out goes the mini map.
You've seen 0.18 patch notes right?
Collision detection? Bypassing the starter areas, you've seen that, right?
Were you THERE to see all the changes they made to the game since this Jan? I'm willing to bet a lot of that money went to something like...building their own custom game engine? One that allows for hundreds of players to PvP with minimal client side performance issues? One of the most highly praised traits of the game right now?
The game is not perfect. Far from it. Phasing is still a wart on ESO's backside. They dragged their feet on fixing itemization. The game waffled between being face melting hard and face roll and hopefully, on release the balance is right. I STILL think the UI for the abilities should be trees like Skyrim instead of the excel table we have now. And many other issues.
And while I realize it is your opinion, IMO, it's a largely UNFOUNDED opinion. You don't like how they made their game. Fine. You don't like X and y systems. Okay. But don't go claiming it's because they did 'nothing' with feedback or are stupid or wasted money.
You don't have the insight to be making those kinds of claims.
its 2014, gaming has mass appeal and most of the next generation is Emo..
If your not excited to have a new game to play your not a gamer.
If every game you try has 2 many flaws and your still waiting for the next big thing your not a gamer.
People just like to complain on the internets thats just a fact, my advice to the OP is stop caring. Watch videos, try betas / demos and make up your own mind. DO NOT let the vocal minority on gaming forums make you miss a game you might have enjoyed because they trashed it.
TESO is new, refreshing, smoothly coded combat, indepth customization. Will it be your next game for 10 years who knows but what I can tell you is its def worth $60 just like any other game your going to get your value from the purchase, if you decide to continue to pay and play awsome if not you def got your 60 bucks out of the game who cares.
It's 2014, do people actually don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'?
Anyway, saying that people are no gamers just because they don't like what is presented to them in games is just ridiculous. EVERY game has flaws, everyone has the right to have his/her own opinion and also, since we're on a forum, to express said opinion.
Of course, people like to complain, especially about MMORPGs. It's a bad trend that, probably, won't vanish any time soon. But praising a game for 'being worth the $60 you'll pay for it' when the game itself isn't out yet is rather ... let's call it naive.
Sure, haters are bad, but the ignorant fanbois who hype their game up like it's the return of Jesus Christ are just as much a cancer in the overall gaming community.
Its growing on me the more I play it, I'm liking it a lot.
I think it does really depend on what class you pick and the area you start in. I've played through two of the starter area's, one was pretty bad (hand holding), but the other was much, much better with lots of stuff to find and explore. On my second run I made a more magic focused character and found myself enjoying the combat more, as I wasn't predominantly using melee.
Ignoring all of the bugs (it is beta and that's what its for), I do think the melee combat is a little lacklustre, its a shame as its almost there, the animation timings are a bit off and pretty jerky. All it needs is tightening up a little, and making sure the swings return back to the default idle smoothly, at the moment they look kind of robotic.
Might just be a visual thing but it really would help in making the combat much more satisfying,...frustrating as its nearly there.
Yeah I agree , I think this may be a game where your starting expierance really dictates your initial impression.
Aloha Mr Hand !
Play any of the following and the reasons might be better understood
Darkfall
Wurm Online
Xyson
Fallen Earth
There are others but I cant speak to them directly because I havent played them
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'm sure kids in third world countries kicking a piece of wood around in a field think that its fun. But, im sure if you gave those kids the option to go play on a gymnasium in a park they would never ever go back to kicking a piece of wood around in a field for fun.
You are very likely correct that a large portion of the hate is from it not being a "true" elder scrolls experience (how you would do that in an MMO is beyond me, being as elder scrolls has ALWAYS been about the single players experience... oh wait, that is what they did).
The rest of the hate comes from the fact that it is yet another AAA Quest Hub Driven single player "MMO". People are getting sick of it, and justly so.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You'll have to be more specific im not sure i understand what you are trying to say. I Have played fallen earth, it was really cool but the graphic engine was so dated it ruined the game, for me at least.
Aloha Mr Hand !
MMORPG.com's forums is where jaded, unhappy gamers come to bitch (although MMORPG.com's writers have some interesting articles which is why I come here). All the happy people are elsewhere on the interwebs. I have to agree with you the game has been fun and very unexpectedly so for me.
when it originally came out the graphics where pretty good for its time.
That said, your question is a complex one and hard to understand without having played a lot of skill based games.
and no the subject isnt just around skill based vs class based but in my view class based systems are antiquated and skill based makes so much more sense
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me