Did anybody else notice that the NPC's don't follow a daily routine? They don't wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, come home, go to bed...etc. I also noticed that shops are open 24/7...what's up with that? Everything just feels stagnant and plastic...
On a side-note, where are all the houses at? Why can't I go around picking locks and breaking in to houses? What gives?
NPC need no sleep! silly....
and the houses are usualy next to the road, you click on the doors and enter them. inside you actually CAN check their cupboards and whatnot. but you cant "steal" since there is no robbery system
I am waiting to see how they implement crime in the game. As it stands (without any crime) my characters all feel too posh. Aside from making my character look like a rabble-rousing street urchin, all of the quests in the game seem to be "save the ambassador," "save the town," "save the queen!" Incidentally it is a bit bothersome to have the NPC's not bat an eye at me while I loot their possessions.
Originally posted by Setzer The game felt very alive to me. You want to see "stagnant" and "plastic" then you should go play SWTOR for a while.
Huh? the game feels as dead and static as SWTOR.
The only MMO that has put some effort into putting some life in the world is GW2. Other developers don't even try.
You're not serious are you? Because to say ESO is dead and static like SWTOR is pretty damn funny and couldn't be further from the truth. When was the last time you played SWTOR? Do the planets have day/night cycles and weather effects like ESO? I have an active sub to SWTOR and have been playing the game since launch and all the planets are static...nothing about them feels alive. I did not feel that way about ESO after beta testing it.
So simply giving planets day/night cycle makes the world feel alive? allright if you say so.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Did anybody else notice that the NPC's don't follow a daily routine? They don't wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, come home, go to bed...etc. I also noticed that shops are open 24/7...what's up with that? Everything just feels stagnant and plastic...
On a side-note, where are all the houses at? Why can't I go around picking locks and breaking in to houses? What gives?
Welcome to the world of mmo's. ESO could never feel like a real TES game. I have a feeling alot of TES fans are going to feel like you do. Most of them don't follow mmo sites and will buy it thinking it will be like a TES game. A lot of freedom you have in the single player games is gone here.
Disagree. One of the few things that impressed me with this game was how alive the world feels for an MMO. NPCs are actually roaming around and performing tasks like patching ships up or carrying crates around on the docks, sweeping, etc.
First of all, it isn't my job to code this into the game. I am a game player. I always think it's funny when people on forums are like "oh it's an MMO so that's hard to do...that's why they didn't do it." If programmers just gave up on all the hard stuff we wouldn't have any progressive games. Secondly, do you think it's seriously that hard to do? They already have day and night in the game. They script movements for some of the NPC's in the game already, especially the quest NPC's.
Why is it that people are so willing to accept mediocrity?
Simple - the average person is actually (less than) mediocre. The average IQ is 90. Consider that there are 6.8+ billion people in the world. The world is getting exponentially "dumber" on a grand scale. And since the world is comprised mostly of these average intelligence folks, then it's safe to say that mediocrity is more globally accepted. Human-kind never advanced through mediocrity. It was always the few intelligent masses that moved the species forward. Everyone else is fodder. How else can we explain the entertainment success of American Idol and Duck Dynasty?
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Did anybody else notice that the NPC's don't follow a daily routine? They don't wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, come home, go to bed...etc. I also noticed that shops are open 24/7...what's up with that? Everything just feels stagnant and plastic...
On a side-note, where are all the houses at? Why can't I go around picking locks and breaking in to houses? What gives?
Could you name MMORPG's that you felt did feel alive?
I actually think for this hybrid themepark MMORPG does make the world feel allot more alive then most currernt A-Tittle MMORPG's released.
Though there are a few exceptions like UO, SWG, Fallen Earth wich felt more alive but that was pure done because of the players and all the feature's we could use to give those gams a soul.
I also think that the majority just wouldn't care because it will slow them down in their XP race to Cap LVL and you know they can not have that.
Though technically not possible yet in a MMORPG but hope one day to see a world alive like they created in Assasin Creed 4.
Why is it that people are so willing to accept mediocrity?
This is a themepark game and the scope of this game is not to emulate a real world.
My approach towards this game was that it would be more of a world that you can just go out and explore. I know you can explore in this game, so I want to clarify a bit before I get jumped on in the forums. I thought you would be able to just travel to various cities at your own will. For example, if I wanted to go from Vulkhel to Firsthold, I would simply follow the road and get there.
I'm seeing more now that it is a "themepark" like people describe. Instead of being able to just travel to a city and enjoy its culture, people, and scenery, I find that they are "gated" by level requirements or events. For example I went to Silsailen and discovered that it was just an "event village" where you have to rescue it. Then when I went to Firsthold I thought "this will be a great chance to see a large city...to really see what this is all about." Unfortunately Firsthold was just another "event city." In order to participate in the "event" I needed to be a higher level or I'd get destroyed by higher level monsters. So, now I don't get to see this wonderful city until I complete that part of my legendary story where I rush to the rescue of Firsthold...that honestly I don't want to do haha. I really did not see the "themepark" flashing warning lights on this game so I apologize if it seems that my naivete is so readily apparent.
Oh believe me, that was my hope as well.
Thats' what I thought the game would be and that's what I wanted. But " it is what it is" so I just found "the fun" in it and just let it lie.
Shame but this is their baby and they get to make it however they want.
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I'm no programmer but considering how MMORPGs already have NPCs walking about, initiating converstations with each other, playing instruments, cooking... I don't think coding is a problem. It's a matter of accessibility.. If NPCs went to sleep when night comes about people wouldn't be able to complete their quests. I wouldn't mind, it'd only add to the immersion. But in this day and age MMORPGs are all about fast progression, constant and easy accessibility and no challenges.
I understand what you're saying, and I could even buy that as an acceptable answer if it wasn't for the fact that they keep telling us that this isn't a "rush to the finish-line" game. Even the splash screen has tips like "be sure to read everything" to let us know that useful information can be found on bookshelves or bedside letters. It seems like closing shops would add more spice to the game. Maybe some places are open later than others so instead of mind-numbingly running to "the merchant" you would have to think about who was open at that time...kind of like...Elder Scrolls?
I think you are having difficulty finding the transition from a single player game to one that has been designed for hundreds of thousands, or millions, of people that are online at any given time. I don't see any developer designing city merchant content that people have to wait for 8-12 hours to access. There are games that have day and night cycle mob spawns, but for regular merchants city-wide? It's not a matter of doability, but feasibility. It's not practical.
Utter rubbish.
First of all, no MMO to date has "millions" of players online, in the same world, at a time. I believe EVE-Online still holds the record for largest number of concurrent logins on a single server (cluster), at something like 60,000. Most MMO's break you up into server shards, where the online population is about 4,000 to 8,000 concurrent. While ESO does claim to use a single login server system, it's not clear how their architecture is split up, so we don't yet know if zones are instanced (as they are in EQ2, for example), or if the population is spread out in other ways.
I said at any given time. The point of that reference is to the OP's lack of understanding of how/why single player game mechanics aren't used in a multiplayer environment.
Secondly, scripted NPC behavior is not CPU intensive. It would be fairly simple to have NPC's wander about realistically, talk to one another, go home at night, open shop in the morning, etc.
Back to my post again. I didn't say it wasn't doable; I said it wasn't feasible.
Thirdly, the claim of it not being practical is only because you're clinging to the way stuff has worked since EQ1. There's no reason an MMO can't have a reasonably short day/night cycle (EQ1 was 72 minutes). If the day/night cycle is short enough, you can nicely script NPC activities to fall into patterns. Your reputable businesses and offices would be open during the day. Your taverns and shady dealers would be out at night. It doesn't have to be like real life, where the sidewalks get rolled up at 5pm and players have to twiddle their thumbs until morning.
That's a nice concept in theory. Again, feasibility and practicality. It works better in a single player game than a multiplayer environment. People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
As I mentioned before, there could be other vendors. Maybe a vampire has a shop somewhere in the seedy parts of the city where he only sells his wares by night. There could be small camps of Khajiit outside of the city, hawking their merchandise. A Bosmer gypsy caravan that travels from town to town perchance? There are already merchants that travel the roads outside of town. I don't see how this idea is so disliked.
Instead of mind-numbingly hitting F and making a marker on your map at the nearest merchant, then running to them while keeping your eyes focused only on the compass...now you would have to start thinking...is this shop open? I do recall they had a sign outside stating they were open late.
People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
Or any Elder Scrolls game. It is a staple of the Elder Scrolls series. Elder Scrolls online should be an Elder Scrolls game that is played online. "Because MMO" is not a good excuse, it's a scapegoat. This does not feel like Elder Scrolls.
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I don't buy the whole "can't be done due to technology" theory as it's been done quite a bit before... granted in earlier MMOs.
As others have mentioned:
EQ1 had whole zones that completely changed at night allowing a completely different content. During the day one zone was all nice and kind with furry creatures etc. and at night it turned into more of a horror themed zone with skellies and other scary mobs. Many people would wait until daytime to make the run from E Commons to Rivendale. Some rare spawns would only come out at night as well.
Sure, there were quests that you had to complete at certain times of the day but they made sense and just required a little planning.
FF and others had different happenings at night time as well.
One huge difference though is quests back then could take several days/weeks to complete while todays quests are much for in the 5 to 30 minute range. This might just not work with todays crowd that wants everything done "right now" and would fall off a cliff if the quest indicator pointed in that direction.
Can they do it?
Definitely.
It might be why it's a lot harder to feel a part of these new worlds versus older world.
People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
Or any Elder Scrolls game. It is a staple of the Elder Scrolls series. Elder Scrolls online should be an Elder Scrolls game that is played online. "Because MMO" is not a good excuse, it's a scapegoat. This does not feel like Elder Scrolls.
Its not a scapegoat to point out that a multiplayer game is fundamentally different than a single player game where the whole world literally revolves around one character. Its not just an online game, its an online game with thousands of players who are logging on and off at different times all over the world.
As far as it 'not feeling like Elder Scrolls', well given the above, in my opinion it feels like Elder Scrolls more than I ever expected or hoped. A lot of MMO players don't like the UI for example because its too much like an RPG and not enough like an MMO. Graphically the game certainly looks like Elder Scrolls.
But if you don't like it, don't play. Seriously, whats the point?
People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
Or any Elder Scrolls game. It is a staple of the Elder Scrolls series. Elder Scrolls online should be an Elder Scrolls game that is played online. "Because MMO" is not a good excuse, it's a scapegoat. This does not feel like Elder Scrolls.
Its not a scapegoat to point out that a multiplayer game is fundamentally different than a single player game where the whole world literally revolves around one character. Its not just an online game, its an online game with thousands of players who are logging on and off at different times all over the world.
As far as it 'not feeling like Elder Scrolls', well given the above, in my opinion it feels like Elder Scrolls more than I ever expected or hoped. A lot of MMO players don't like the UI for example because its too much like an RPG and not enough like an MMO. Graphically the game certainly looks like Elder Scrolls.
But if you don't like it, don't play. Seriously, whats the point?
I don't intend to, mainly because they built a bland (imo) MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin, instead of building an Elder Scrolls game that is played online; which would have been much more exciting. If they would have took Skyrim style mechanics and placed it in an online world, that would be Elder Scrolls online.
They should have catered to Elder Scrolls fans and not MMO players. Would have been a much more definitive title. This is just my opinion, but they dropped the ball with an enormous opportunity to make something special.
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People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
Or any Elder Scrolls game. It is a staple of the Elder Scrolls series. Elder Scrolls online should be an Elder Scrolls game that is played online. "Because MMO" is not a good excuse, it's a scapegoat. This does not feel like Elder Scrolls.
Its not a scapegoat to point out that a multiplayer game is fundamentally different than a single player game where the whole world literally revolves around one character. Its not just an online game, its an online game with thousands of players who are logging on and off at different times all over the world.
As far as it 'not feeling like Elder Scrolls', well given the above, in my opinion it feels like Elder Scrolls more than I ever expected or hoped. A lot of MMO players don't like the UI for example because its too much like an RPG and not enough like an MMO. Graphically the game certainly looks like Elder Scrolls.
But if you don't like it, don't play. Seriously, whats the point?
The Elder Scrolls games have been around for a very long time, and people have a vested interest in seeing its dignity preserved among its successors.
Originally posted by Damedius A video game doesn't feel alive, you don't say.
Miss the point of this thread, you did. Nice contribution to a constructive discussion.
There is a point to this thread?
Besides stating the obvious.
Nobody is stating that you have the capacity to understand it, but it wouldn't hurt to give it the old college try.
It wouldn't hurt to realize that a video game isn't supposed to feel alive. After all, it's a video game. Unless you happen to schizophrenic, then some games might feel real to you.
Originally posted by Damedius A video game doesn't feel alive, you don't say.
Miss the point of this thread, you did. Nice contribution to a constructive discussion.
There is a point to this thread?
Besides stating the obvious.
Nobody is stating that you have the capacity to understand it, but it wouldn't hurt to give it the old college try.
It wouldn't hurt to realize that a video game isn't supposed to feel alive. After all, it's a video game. Unless you happen to schizophrenic, then some games might feel real to you.
I was gonna tell you that he meant compared to Skyrim's liveliness, but then I took an arrow in the knee.
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This is the most "alive feeling" MMO I have played in 10 years. Almost every NPC is interactive and they react to just your presence.... that is huge in the MMO space.
Comments
I am waiting to see how they implement crime in the game. As it stands (without any crime) my characters all feel too posh. Aside from making my character look like a rabble-rousing street urchin, all of the quests in the game seem to be "save the ambassador," "save the town," "save the queen!" Incidentally it is a bit bothersome to have the NPC's not bat an eye at me while I loot their possessions.
So simply giving planets day/night cycle makes the world feel alive? allright if you say so.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Welcome to the world of mmo's. ESO could never feel like a real TES game. I have a feeling alot of TES fans are going to feel like you do. Most of them don't follow mmo sites and will buy it thinking it will be like a TES game. A lot of freedom you have in the single player games is gone here.
I've said this alot but it needs to be repeated. It's a matter of perspective. How you see things and what you find Ok or not.
ESO is not like Skyrim, no. However, even in Skyrim there 's little to give that sense of it being alive.
NPCs repeat the same thing over and over when pass near them. You steal from someone, pay off a guard and that NPC still likes you..etc.
Disagree? Why, because you see other things that make the world more 'alive' than these complaints? There's my point in a nutshell.
Simple - the average person is actually (less than) mediocre. The average IQ is 90. Consider that there are 6.8+ billion people in the world. The world is getting exponentially "dumber" on a grand scale. And since the world is comprised mostly of these average intelligence folks, then it's safe to say that mediocrity is more globally accepted. Human-kind never advanced through mediocrity. It was always the few intelligent masses that moved the species forward. Everyone else is fodder. How else can we explain the entertainment success of American Idol and Duck Dynasty?
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Could you name MMORPG's that you felt did feel alive?
I actually think for this hybrid themepark MMORPG does make the world feel allot more alive then most currernt A-Tittle MMORPG's released.
Though there are a few exceptions like UO, SWG, Fallen Earth wich felt more alive but that was pure done because of the players and all the feature's we could use to give those gams a soul.
I also think that the majority just wouldn't care because it will slow them down in their XP race to Cap LVL and you know they can not have that.
Though technically not possible yet in a MMORPG but hope one day to see a world alive like they created in Assasin Creed 4.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Oh believe me, that was my hope as well.
Thats' what I thought the game would be and that's what I wanted. But " it is what it is" so I just found "the fun" in it and just let it lie.
Shame but this is their baby and they get to make it however they want.
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Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I said at any given time. The point of that reference is to the OP's lack of understanding of how/why single player game mechanics aren't used in a multiplayer environment.
Back to my post again. I didn't say it wasn't doable; I said it wasn't feasible.
That's a nice concept in theory. Again, feasibility and practicality. It works better in a single player game than a multiplayer environment. People don't want to wait for hours to be able to access NPC X. This has been discussed in other gaming forums and Dev's have replied with the rational I just gave.
People are probably not going to want to wait around when people are camping bosses either, but they're going to have to deal with it just the same. Just because people don't want something, it doesn't make it a bad decision to add it.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote and think about that.
There is a world of difference between a day cycle dependent mob, and the nonsense you are suggesting of expecting people to wait hours for an a city's worth of NPC's to become available. The point is moot anyway. If you want that load up Skyrim.
As I mentioned before, there could be other vendors. Maybe a vampire has a shop somewhere in the seedy parts of the city where he only sells his wares by night. There could be small camps of Khajiit outside of the city, hawking their merchandise. A Bosmer gypsy caravan that travels from town to town perchance? There are already merchants that travel the roads outside of town. I don't see how this idea is so disliked.
Instead of mind-numbingly hitting F and making a marker on your map at the nearest merchant, then running to them while keeping your eyes focused only on the compass...now you would have to start thinking...is this shop open? I do recall they had a sign outside stating they were open late.
Or any Elder Scrolls game. It is a staple of the Elder Scrolls series. Elder Scrolls online should be an Elder Scrolls game that is played online. "Because MMO" is not a good excuse, it's a scapegoat. This does not feel like Elder Scrolls.
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I don't buy the whole "can't be done due to technology" theory as it's been done quite a bit before... granted in earlier MMOs.
As others have mentioned:
EQ1 had whole zones that completely changed at night allowing a completely different content. During the day one zone was all nice and kind with furry creatures etc. and at night it turned into more of a horror themed zone with skellies and other scary mobs. Many people would wait until daytime to make the run from E Commons to Rivendale. Some rare spawns would only come out at night as well.
Sure, there were quests that you had to complete at certain times of the day but they made sense and just required a little planning.
FF and others had different happenings at night time as well.
One huge difference though is quests back then could take several days/weeks to complete while todays quests are much for in the 5 to 30 minute range. This might just not work with todays crowd that wants everything done "right now" and would fall off a cliff if the quest indicator pointed in that direction.
Can they do it?
Definitely.
It might be why it's a lot harder to feel a part of these new worlds versus older world.
My Opinion, of course!
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Miss the point of this thread, you did. Nice contribution to a constructive discussion.
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There is a point to this thread?
Besides stating the obvious.
Nobody is stating that you have the capacity to understand it, but it wouldn't hurt to give it the old college try.
Its not a scapegoat to point out that a multiplayer game is fundamentally different than a single player game where the whole world literally revolves around one character. Its not just an online game, its an online game with thousands of players who are logging on and off at different times all over the world.
As far as it 'not feeling like Elder Scrolls', well given the above, in my opinion it feels like Elder Scrolls more than I ever expected or hoped. A lot of MMO players don't like the UI for example because its too much like an RPG and not enough like an MMO. Graphically the game certainly looks like Elder Scrolls.
But if you don't like it, don't play. Seriously, whats the point?
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
I don't intend to, mainly because they built a bland (imo) MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin, instead of building an Elder Scrolls game that is played online; which would have been much more exciting. If they would have took Skyrim style mechanics and placed it in an online world, that would be Elder Scrolls online.
They should have catered to Elder Scrolls fans and not MMO players. Would have been a much more definitive title. This is just my opinion, but they dropped the ball with an enormous opportunity to make something special.
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The Elder Scrolls games have been around for a very long time, and people have a vested interest in seeing its dignity preserved among its successors.
It wouldn't hurt to realize that a video game isn't supposed to feel alive. After all, it's a video game. Unless you happen to schizophrenic, then some games might feel real to you.
I was gonna tell you that he meant compared to Skyrim's liveliness, but then I took an arrow in the knee.
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7 day subscriber level access
Returning players get 1 free server transfer
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