Originally posted by Hellbabe Do you can underwater swimming in Skyrim or Oblivion? No. And if you have no Lore to do that, why for hell it has been in that game??? Sry but really lame and boaring post^^
You CAN swim and even fight underwater in Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact there's even some very interesting things to be found underwater in those games. The represent how underwater SHOULD be used in a game: Dangerous, often uneventful, used sparingly but sometimes very exciting and with things to discover.
Actually, and not to be picayune, you can't fight under water in skyrim.
Ya you're right. It was typed wrong, I meant in Oblivion you could fight underwater but in both you can swim underwater and find interesting stuff there sometimes....which at the end of the day is what matters to me most.
And that's why I mentioned diving in morrowind ( I believe you can fight under water in morrowind) where one could find things that you just never realized was there.
Finding a ruin in a place where you don't expect a ruin is like finding king tut's tomb.
However, that just isn't in the scope of this game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by thunderC OP If water combat is what sells a game for you try GuildWars 2 .
I already said I don't care about underwater combat. But inability to swim underwater completely is just silly to me. It's like not allowing me to jump. I don't care for GW2 either for other reasons. I actually find much bigger flaws in that game than this one.
It's silly to you because you have absolutely no idea of the technical ramifications involved. You think it's simply a decision that they made on a whim and something that is easy to implement if they wanted to. You couldn't be more wrong.
OP, you can sit in a chair. You magically carry one with you wherever you go.
Stealing is said to be implemented when the Thieves' Guild is brought in post launch.
I'm not sure why anyone would think they couldn't patch in underwater swimming later also. Keep in mind that to do this, they have to do the art and modeling of all underwater assets. I'd rather see them work on other things, but maybe this is on their list of things to do post-launch.
I understand what OP is saying, and I find it alittle silly that you can't dive if you wanna. But I guess for more meaningfull diving etc I will just have to wait for ArcheAge.
I... FUCKING.. DESPISE... ALL FORMS OF WATER RELATED COMBAT.
All of it. Fighting underwater is impractical as shit, take that shit somewhere else. I dont want it, im glad all i can do is wade in the water, i am glad that if you spend to much time in the water slaughterfish arrive to remind you that your ass doesnt belong in the water.
FUCK WATER COMBAT!
Agreed. Did I miss a memo or something? Last I checked, rule #1 of any type of game was pretty much that water levels suck. Sure, there's a nice feeling you can get specifically from exploring stuff like underwater caves, but in a game with combat they end up having combat, and then you're just flailing around underwater, all your movement feels slow and floaty, and the enemy is mauling you one inch of skin at a time.
On the contrary they actually use your inability to dive and fight underwater as a wall mechanic to zones i.e. you get eaten by slaughterfish that you can't fight back against if you try to swim too far out to sea. I'm assuming for all intents and purposes that this design decision is here to stay, and I cannot abide it.
I can not even.....just..........really? You think they are going to just let you swim out to the end of the map and/or into nothingness? ok w/e floats your boat(or sinks it so it can go underwater)
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
What bothers me is that I can see the moon. It's right there. But the game won't let me explore it.
But yeah, allowing underwater exploring shouldn't be ignored.
On the contrary they actually use your inability to dive and fight underwater as a wall mechanic to zones i.e. you get eaten by slaughterfish that you can't fight back against if you try to swim too far out to sea. I'm assuming for all intents and purposes that this design decision is here to stay, and I cannot abide it.
I can not even.....just..........really? You think they are going to just let you swim out to the end of the map and/or into nothingness? ok w/e floats your boat(or sinks it so it can go underwater)
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
What bothers me is that I can see the moon. It's right there. But the game won't let me explore it.
But yeah, allowing underwater exploring shouldn't be ignored.
FrodoFragins you made me cry as I roflol
No i don't expect that....I mentioned that to point out that they are likely not intending to implement underwater swimming in the future either.
This thread is insane. I honestly thought the OP was being sarcastic. People would seriously not buy a good game because they cant go underwater?!?! What's next, not playing because there are no bathrooms and it ruins your immersion???
Rop many peopl rightly complained about the invisible walls in gw2 and was put off by it, this is another invisible wall. It's a modern malaise, some people do not understand what immersion is wirhin the context of a virtual world and why things can affect it. Same arguements you see about portal travel in eve, and the restricted map in ffx14.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Rop many peopl rightly complained about the invisible walls in gw2 and was put off by it, this is another invisible wall. It's a modern malaise, some people do not understand what immersion is wirhin the context of a virtual world and why things can affect it. Same arguements you see about portal travel in eve, and the restricted map in ffx14.
Immersion can be defined differently by different people. The levels of realism one expects in any game is left to the individual. Lists can easily be made for and against things that one considers immersion.
With games, you take it as is and adapt or you just don't play.
Indeed, so what gives people the right to say to op your opinion is lame, it's down to the individual, and mmorg devs invest money in underwater travel - their is a market.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
It's a matter of principle. I'm voting with my wallet. I may not care about making much use of diving but them deciding that it's ok to allow less interaction in our virtual worlds is not something I want to support. It's disappointing to see how the voices of real MMORPG players have been drowned out in this sea of nouveau MMO recruits who don't really understand or care about the principles that brought this genre to life. And no I'm not being a conservative or with rose-tinted glasses. Unlike all the other arguments regarding old vs new, I can see merit in all kinds of perspectives, but when it comes to interacting with the world you can't convince me that less is better. An MMORPG is a virtual world for me; not being able to run, jump, sit, swim, dive, dance, walk, smile, laugh, wave, sleep etc. is not something I can settle on. Some interactions restrict gameplay and those I can accept being left out, but interactions that actually ENHANCE gameplay potential and whose absence actually cripples the potential of the game? I can't support it.
Also from reading some of these posts it occurred to me that maybe the point of contention is actually a philosophical one about what an MMORPG is to me or you. For me it's a virtual world. I play MMORPG's for a breadth of experience and group play outside the scope of single player games. For me its that wide scope that justifies the demand for a subscription (since the game can essentially serve to replace all other games while I'm playing it). Without that wide scope I can't even see how the game can be worth a subscription (maybe that's why subscription MMO's are on the decline). If single player or local multiplayer games are offering me more breadth of play than the genre that DEFINED for me what I consider to be wide scope of gameplay then I'll just support those games instead. If you see the MMORPG genre as something less grand and don't care much about it realizing its potential then of course you wouldn't agree with me.
I completely agree with everything you wrote.
Favorite part:
"It's disappointing to see how the voices of real MMORPG players have been drowned out in this sea of nouveau MMO recruits who don't really understand or care about the principles that brought this genre to life. "
The 'right' as you say is freedom of speech, we all know there are trolls out there. Doesn't mean you have to bite. At the moment ESO has no underwater swimming. Maybe it will be added later. Your only decision is whether or not to play ESO as is until such a time as that feature gets added.
In 2006 when wow came out it was possible to swim and fight under water, you could drown if a druid chain rooted you or an undead priest mind controlled you and feared you...
What do you mean when you say a modern online game like TESO doesnt have swimming and fighting under water?
I think a lot of comments in thread towards the OP are very immature and uncalled for.
The point the OP is trying to make, is that the game is breaking immersion. I thought it was quite lame when I could only explore the water in the game on a 2d plane. The game barely gives you the ability to jump. It's like the whole Z-axis in this game was an after thought. I've found better quality in free to play Korean grinders.
In a sense he is right and wrong. Look at it another way please.
Take other mmo that allow you to swim even if there is no combat just the fact that you can go underwater and find caves with treasures or even instances or mobs or even all those option added together. It gives immersion in the game. It is suppose to be a breathing world where everything is possible. No need to have fighting underwater just the fact to explore.
2) They could have added a transparent wall at one point to block you from going to far out but still allow you to swim and explore. but instead they did not even bother to add things underwater because they just blocked you out totally, it was a way to do less job and get the game out faster nothing else.
Even 10 year old mmo have the ability to go underwater and here we are in 2014 and they take it out??? It is only recently that some mmo added underwater combat otherwise you add to use your regular spells or skills to fight mobs underwater or players now GW2 made it possible to fight with underwater skills but that's just them. And he did not talk about them only the fans did.
Like OP said very good game but they took a main feature out for no reason. They should at least explain why is it because they want to add it in a feature xpac? or is it just they did not find the way to properly add it?
He was just stating the fact he like to be able to explore underwater he even said he did not want to have to fight underwater just explore. Technically i find very interesting the fact i can explorer and see the time a dev work in the underwater part of a mmo because it shows they care about there world.
Now to say i will not buy because the underwater feature is missing is a bit over the top i agree but if that breaks it for him i can understand. Why die when going underwater? But you can kill undead and all other kind of mobs like a super hero but now they say a hero that can't swim??? The most basic thing in the world omg.
I will agree with OP. I would like to see underwater content similar to Skyrim, but it is not a big enough issue to prevent me from enjoying the game. I hope you find a mmo that you enjoy as well!
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And that's why I mentioned diving in morrowind ( I believe you can fight under water in morrowind) where one could find things that you just never realized was there.
Finding a ruin in a place where you don't expect a ruin is like finding king tut's tomb.
However, that just isn't in the scope of this game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"An it harm none, do what thou wilt"
It's silly to you because you have absolutely no idea of the technical ramifications involved. You think it's simply a decision that they made on a whim and something that is easy to implement if they wanted to. You couldn't be more wrong.
OP, you can sit in a chair. You magically carry one with you wherever you go.
Stealing is said to be implemented when the Thieves' Guild is brought in post launch.
I'm not sure why anyone would think they couldn't patch in underwater swimming later also. Keep in mind that to do this, they have to do the art and modeling of all underwater assets. I'd rather see them work on other things, but maybe this is on their list of things to do post-launch.
Agreed. Did I miss a memo or something? Last I checked, rule #1 of any type of game was pretty much that water levels suck. Sure, there's a nice feeling you can get specifically from exploring stuff like underwater caves, but in a game with combat they end up having combat, and then you're just flailing around underwater, all your movement feels slow and floaty, and the enemy is mauling you one inch of skin at a time.
I am not buying this game either. I can not squat down, take a shit, turn around pick it up and eat it.
This game has to many things you can not do.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please give me a moment to see if I can not stop you from walking out on ESO
http://youtu.be/dmyJ1RVfnPE
I can not even.....just..........really? You think they are going to just let you swim out to the end of the map and/or into nothingness? ok w/e floats your boat(or sinks it so it can go underwater)
FrodoFragins you made me cry as I roflol
No i don't expect that....I mentioned that to point out that they are likely not intending to implement underwater swimming in the future either.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Immersion can be defined differently by different people. The levels of realism one expects in any game is left to the individual. Lists can easily be made for and against things that one considers immersion.
With games, you take it as is and adapt or you just don't play.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I completely agree with everything you wrote.
Favorite part:
"It's disappointing to see how the voices of real MMORPG players have been drowned out in this sea of nouveau MMO recruits who don't really understand or care about the principles that brought this genre to life. "
-Verenath-
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
In 2006 when wow came out it was possible to swim and fight under water, you could drown if a druid chain rooted you or an undead priest mind controlled you and feared you...
What do you mean when you say a modern online game like TESO doesnt have swimming and fighting under water?
it must be a mistake.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I think a lot of comments in thread towards the OP are very immature and uncalled for.
The point the OP is trying to make, is that the game is breaking immersion. I thought it was quite lame when I could only explore the water in the game on a 2d plane. The game barely gives you the ability to jump. It's like the whole Z-axis in this game was an after thought. I've found better quality in free to play Korean grinders.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
In a sense he is right and wrong. Look at it another way please.
Take other mmo that allow you to swim even if there is no combat just the fact that you can go underwater and find caves with treasures or even instances or mobs or even all those option added together. It gives immersion in the game. It is suppose to be a breathing world where everything is possible. No need to have fighting underwater just the fact to explore.
2) They could have added a transparent wall at one point to block you from going to far out but still allow you to swim and explore. but instead they did not even bother to add things underwater because they just blocked you out totally, it was a way to do less job and get the game out faster nothing else.
Even 10 year old mmo have the ability to go underwater and here we are in 2014 and they take it out??? It is only recently that some mmo added underwater combat otherwise you add to use your regular spells or skills to fight mobs underwater or players now GW2 made it possible to fight with underwater skills but that's just them. And he did not talk about them only the fans did.
Like OP said very good game but they took a main feature out for no reason. They should at least explain why is it because they want to add it in a feature xpac? or is it just they did not find the way to properly add it?
He was just stating the fact he like to be able to explore underwater he even said he did not want to have to fight underwater just explore. Technically i find very interesting the fact i can explorer and see the time a dev work in the underwater part of a mmo because it shows they care about there world.
Now to say i will not buy because the underwater feature is missing is a bit over the top i agree but if that breaks it for him i can understand. Why die when going underwater? But you can kill undead and all other kind of mobs like a super hero but now they say a hero that can't swim??? The most basic thing in the world omg.
I will agree with OP. I would like to see underwater content similar to Skyrim, but it is not a big enough issue to prevent me from enjoying the game. I hope you find a mmo that you enjoy as well!
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S