So it is not possible to etc. have a constant visible UI anymore? Like this (notice action bar in bottom):
I really hated that I could not see my action bar the whole time unless I fought.
Originally posted by ShrewdDuck So happy I canceled my pre order. Limited UI, animations, and hot key abilities just seems like it's made for consoles and not PCs. I might try TESO when it's F2P.
Well, the game is made with consoles in mind - that is why we get a dumbed down version on PC.
They went too far with the change... we need a middle ground, i would like to see my own buffs/debuffs and the ones of my party members. I am ok with not seeing the castbar or stamina/mana bars of the enemy.
So it is not possible to etc. have a constant visible UI anymore? Like this (notice action bar in bottom):
I really hated that I could not see my action bar the whole time unless I fought.
Originally posted by ShrewdDuck So happy I canceled my pre order. Limited UI, animations, and hot key abilities just seems like it's made for consoles and not PCs. I might try TESO when it's F2P.
Well, the game is made with consoles in mind - that is why we get a dumbed down version on PC.
The changes mainly involved what information was available to the player. While I understand that the game was made with consoles in mind, PC users aren't even playing with them on the same servers, so why the console like restrictions.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
I am confused... does that mean i have to GUESS now how long my buffs last? Who healed me? What damage i just did? If i hit with a dot at all?
Wut?
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Oh no, you mean people are going to have to pay attention to visual cues, and make reads and have reactions? The horror.
This^
And also agreed about it being one of the better UI's in an MMO.
I don't have any deal breaking issues with the UI if I am honest, but my concern is that these subtle types of visual queues and particle effects may get lost in large scale PvP.
Particularly with 2,000 players in each Cyrodil instance combined with Matt Firor's recent statement that the game/pvp will be lag free.
It could be total chaos and I wonder how the visual queues will stand that sort of test and still be meaningful.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
Thanks for this, thats actually pretty useful info. You kinda hit on my biggest concern, and that was buff/debuff tracking. Being able to have an idea of when key buffs are going down and when to clense are almost always key aspects of an MMO.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
The only one I would have an issue with is the buffs....
Not giving us the ability to track self / target buffs is rediculous imo.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
If you mean that we might get a challenge again you are right. Your addons won't play the game for you. I played the last 3 beta without any addons, and was really viable in pve an pvp. I made 3 chars over level 20 and put of lot of hours in. The cues are all there to block, interrupt or dodge.
The only nice to have would be self buff, keeping track of those 8-30 sec buff could get tiring eventually but still don't bother me much.
I am pretty sure they will keep monitoring abilities to track which could be broken.
Overall the devs delivered on what they told us 1 month ago.
Blimey, you've all been spoilt with statistics and information that you now think that games should all have these features.
If a game is designed to be played in a particular manner with out bars or numbers flying out of people heads, why is it such a big deal, you can learn to play it that way, if its harder to judge stuff so be it.
As a PVP player shouldn't the most important thing be that everyone has the same tools to play.
I actually think everyone in here is a complete and spoiled brat... even all the signatures and joined dates to this site/forum complaining about add-ons. If you are truly an old gamer as most of you say it shouldn't be a problem.
There will always be balance issues.
There will always be micro managing tasks for yourself and those around you based on your play style.
Everyone has become so spoiled with having things handed to them they have completely forgot the 'basics'. In fact, it's far worse when 'veteran' gamers start crying because all of the newer generation that wasn't playing shadow bane, everquest 1, asherons call or ultima online. Yes, there were some third party items out for those games but they were for the most part not entirely needed what so ever and most always completely hacks AKA BOBA FETT trainer for DIABLO 1...RADAR.
Everyone gets they are trying to 'emulate' dark age of camelot style PvP and some other underlying facets from that game and tie them into the ES world with tidbits from other games...that's a given. However, I really don't want to see more RADAR type issues among a few others I will not note that DAOC faced in RvR.
Honestly overall the game has and was very easy from lvl 1 to lvl 50 veteran rank 2 took maybe 110 hours. So perhaps now there is an added difficulty to the game without being fed 'options' you think you deserve. You don't. You just think you do because that's the current trend. I'm all about addons but I think they need to limit them heavily more so for RvR than anything else. If you're not at the level of being able to drop someone from 100-0 without continually monitoring your opponents status whether you're solo or grouped, you have no right to complain or possibly even bother wasting your time to 'down' said opponent.
Yes, the UI is trash needs adjustments but much like the game a million things need tweaked but not to the degree some of the current addons were allowing or headed direction wise.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
I'm surprised they did this. I thought the majority liked easy.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
If you mean that we might get a challenge again you are right. Your addons won't play the game for you. I played the last 3 beta without any addons, and was really viable in pve an pvp. I made 3 chars over level 20 and put of lot of hours in. The cues are all there to block, interrupt or dodge.
The only nice to have would be self buff, keeping track of those 8-30 sec buff could get tiring eventually but still don't bother me much.
I am pretty sure they will keep monitoring abilities to track which could be broken.
Overall the devs delivered on what they told us 1 month ago.
Yes, the game probably will be a challenge to play with almost no feedback. However, a challenge to play due to the UI is not the same thing as challenging content.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
If you mean that we might get a challenge again you are right. Your addons won't play the game for you. I played the last 3 beta without any addons, and was really viable in pve an pvp. I made 3 chars over level 20 and put of lot of hours in. The cues are all there to block, interrupt or dodge.
The only nice to have would be self buff, keeping track of those 8-30 sec buff could get tiring eventually but still don't bother me much.
I am pretty sure they will keep monitoring abilities to track which could be broken.
Overall the devs delivered on what they told us 1 month ago.
Yes, the game probably will be a challenge to play with almost no feedback. However, a challenge to play due to the UI is not the same thing as challenging content.
It is exactly the same, if you need to be told what and when to do something it removes any challenge. They could design the most challenging content ever, if your addons still tell you what to do, you are still left with something easy.
All the cues are in game in the current UI, it's just less obvious.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name YES: incoming damage/healing value NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations) NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities NO: no way to know what abilities are broken NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
If you mean that we might get a challenge again you are right. Your addons won't play the game for you. I played the last 3 beta without any addons, and was really viable in pve an pvp. I made 3 chars over level 20 and put of lot of hours in. The cues are all there to block, interrupt or dodge.
The only nice to have would be self buff, keeping track of those 8-30 sec buff could get tiring eventually but still don't bother me much.
I am pretty sure they will keep monitoring abilities to track which could be broken.
Overall the devs delivered on what they told us 1 month ago.
Yes, the game probably will be a challenge to play with almost no feedback. However, a challenge to play due to the UI is not the same thing as challenging content.
It is exactly the same, if you need to be told what and when to do something it removes any challenge. They could design the most challenging content ever, if your addons still tell you what to do, you are still left with something easy.
All the cues are in game in the current UI, it's just less obvious.
Yes, like playing a game of chess where you don't get to know what moves your opponent makes or how many pieces they have left. That would certainly be challenging, but the kind of challenging that makes it no fun to play. Information on the enemy allows for tactical play. Why do you think the military gains intelligence on the enemy before acting?
Edit: Of course, I'd be fine with having to take a skill and slot it to be able to evaluate an opponents health and combat resource reserves. Another skill could be slotted to determine what the enemy was casting. That would be a tactical decision. Trade potential combat abilities for information.
Yes, the game probably will be a challenge to play with almost no feedback. However, a challenge to play due to the UI is not the same thing as challenging content.
Challenging content... hmmmm...
I suspect that Add-on's actually created a form of "MMO Arms Race"...
Add-on's were initially made to make managing raids easier.
But then the raids lost their "challenge", so devs made them more complex.
So more sophisticated Add-on's were created to make these harder raids more manageable...
And so on, until it became virtually impossible to clear the raids without the use of add-on's.
If the content is not challenging, you don't need Add-on's to complete it.
If using Add-on's makes the content "easier" to complete, it's challenging by definition, not so ?
Comments
So it is not possible to etc. have a constant visible UI anymore? Like this (notice action bar in bottom):
I really hated that I could not see my action bar the whole time unless I fought.
Well, the game is made with consoles in mind - that is why we get a dumbed down version on PC.
The changes mainly involved what information was available to the player. While I understand that the game was made with consoles in mind, PC users aren't even playing with them on the same servers, so why the console like restrictions.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
Well, like any other studio that just ports a console version to PC - easy money.
Look at all multi platform MMOs
Defiance
Diablo III
And ESO
All has been dumbed down for the player, because the games have been designed with a controller in mind.
I am confused... does that mean i have to GUESS now how long my buffs last? Who healed me? What damage i just did? If i hit with a dot at all?
Wut?
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I don't have any deal breaking issues with the UI if I am honest, but my concern is that these subtle types of visual queues and particle effects may get lost in large scale PvP.
Particularly with 2,000 players in each Cyrodil instance combined with Matt Firor's recent statement that the game/pvp will be lag free.
It could be total chaos and I wonder how the visual queues will stand that sort of test and still be meaningful.
Stolen from Tamriel Foundry. Most succient list of what UI mods can now, and lost the ability to do now.
YES: own damage/healing value and name
YES: incoming damage/healing value
NO: not who, what, type incoming damage/healing
NO: non-character sheet data: no specific resistances, spell penetration, critical damage bonus
NO: no non-long term or permanent self buff durations (buffs longer than 30s), no self buff icons, no egg timers (yet even Morrowind and Oblivion TES games had buff durations)
NO: no way to know the detailed scaling of abilities
NO: no way to know what abilities are broken
NO: no way to know what abilities are imbalanced
NO: no way to know what combat playstyles are most viable
NO: no way for healers to know what/when to Cleanse/Efficient Purge/manage HoTs/manage special abilities (very costly spells).
Personal opinion, I would like one more beta crack to see how bad the changes make the interface. I understand the developer motives in this, but it is one hell of a bait and switch. Guess we're playing like it's 1999 (EQ interface style)
Thanks for this, thats actually pretty useful info. You kinda hit on my biggest concern, and that was buff/debuff tracking. Being able to have an idea of when key buffs are going down and when to clense are almost always key aspects of an MMO.
The only one I would have an issue with is the buffs....
Not giving us the ability to track self / target buffs is rediculous imo.
This is great. The less add-ons, the better.
Hate to have my 20 addons installed just to be competetive in pvp or late pve (hi WoW!)
Hodor!
I hate this no way to know when your food buff is gone or that buff you have for one minute or 20 seconds etc....
Why would i not know when the buff i casted on myself is no longer active and so on... its common sense.
If you mean that we might get a challenge again you are right. Your addons won't play the game for you. I played the last 3 beta without any addons, and was really viable in pve an pvp. I made 3 chars over level 20 and put of lot of hours in. The cues are all there to block, interrupt or dodge.
The only nice to have would be self buff, keeping track of those 8-30 sec buff could get tiring eventually but still don't bother me much.
I am pretty sure they will keep monitoring abilities to track which could be broken.
Overall the devs delivered on what they told us 1 month ago.
Blimey, you've all been spoilt with statistics and information that you now think that games should all have these features.
If a game is designed to be played in a particular manner with out bars or numbers flying out of people heads, why is it such a big deal, you can learn to play it that way, if its harder to judge stuff so be it.
As a PVP player shouldn't the most important thing be that everyone has the same tools to play.
I actually think everyone in here is a complete and spoiled brat... even all the signatures and joined dates to this site/forum complaining about add-ons. If you are truly an old gamer as most of you say it shouldn't be a problem.
There will always be balance issues.
There will always be micro managing tasks for yourself and those around you based on your play style.
Everyone has become so spoiled with having things handed to them they have completely forgot the 'basics'. In fact, it's far worse when 'veteran' gamers start crying because all of the newer generation that wasn't playing shadow bane, everquest 1, asherons call or ultima online. Yes, there were some third party items out for those games but they were for the most part not entirely needed what so ever and most always completely hacks AKA BOBA FETT trainer for DIABLO 1...RADAR.
Everyone gets they are trying to 'emulate' dark age of camelot style PvP and some other underlying facets from that game and tie them into the ES world with tidbits from other games...that's a given. However, I really don't want to see more RADAR type issues among a few others I will not note that DAOC faced in RvR.
Honestly overall the game has and was very easy from lvl 1 to lvl 50 veteran rank 2 took maybe 110 hours. So perhaps now there is an added difficulty to the game without being fed 'options' you think you deserve. You don't. You just think you do because that's the current trend. I'm all about addons but I think they need to limit them heavily more so for RvR than anything else. If you're not at the level of being able to drop someone from 100-0 without continually monitoring your opponents status whether you're solo or grouped, you have no right to complain or possibly even bother wasting your time to 'down' said opponent.
Yes, the UI is trash needs adjustments but much like the game a million things need tweaked but not to the degree some of the current addons were allowing or headed direction wise.
I'm surprised they did this. I thought the majority liked easy.
Yes, the game probably will be a challenge to play with almost no feedback. However, a challenge to play due to the UI is not the same thing as challenging content.
It is exactly the same, if you need to be told what and when to do something it removes any challenge. They could design the most challenging content ever, if your addons still tell you what to do, you are still left with something easy.
All the cues are in game in the current UI, it's just less obvious.
curse has 6,579 wow addons
i thikn this sais it all. i dont wanna play a game where bars tell me what to do
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Yes, like playing a game of chess where you don't get to know what moves your opponent makes or how many pieces they have left. That would certainly be challenging, but the kind of challenging that makes it no fun to play. Information on the enemy allows for tactical play. Why do you think the military gains intelligence on the enemy before acting?
Edit: Of course, I'd be fine with having to take a skill and slot it to be able to evaluate an opponents health and combat resource reserves. Another skill could be slotted to determine what the enemy was casting. That would be a tactical decision. Trade potential combat abilities for information.
Rubber duck is incapable of hate.
" The extinction of Rubber Ducks will bring forth the end of our days. "
I'm good with the changes.
The mods these days places the player on "auto pilot", pretty much telling the player what to do and when. Sometimes even doing it for you.
Challenging content... hmmmm...
I suspect that Add-on's actually created a form of "MMO Arms Race"...
Add-on's were initially made to make managing raids easier.
But then the raids lost their "challenge", so devs made them more complex.
So more sophisticated Add-on's were created to make these harder raids more manageable...
And so on, until it became virtually impossible to clear the raids without the use of add-on's.
If the content is not challenging, you don't need Add-on's to complete it.
If using Add-on's makes the content "easier" to complete, it's challenging by definition, not so ?