ESO is such a bipolar game - one one hand they give you this awesome zone to PvP in - and at the same time they force you to progress via PvE which is dull and boring in comparison - again my opinion.
Every player will have their own specific interests and style of play but this is independent from what a game is. If influences what game you choose to play and how to play it. ESO is about both pve and pvp. How ZOS chooses to separate them is up to them. It makes entire sense that they want all players to participate in all content.
If someone plays only pve or only pvp and then complains content is limiting the fault lays entirely within their own choices and the impact of their complaints should carry far less weight than those players participating in all systems.
I think what people are having a hard time grasping is what Tam just pointed out, it's one game not two. You have options of content, be it PVP questing, or straight exploring and killing, as well as crafting. However a person doing all of these opposed to a person just PVPing or just killing ( no quests) etc. Aren't going to consider just how fast a person questing, pvping as well as killing would level. They'd quickly outlevel the content they're doing if XP was evenly distributed. TOR comes to mind
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia I think what people are having a hard time grasping is what Tam just pointed out, it's one game not two. You have options of content, be it PVP questing, or straight exploring and killing, as well as crafting. However a person doing all of these opposed to a person just PVPing or just killing ( no quests) etc. Aren't going to consider just how fast a person questing, pvping as well as killing would level. They'd quickly outlevel the content they're doing if XP was evenly distributed. TOR comes to mind
+1 This is a quest driven game ...it's how the game was developed
However there is a definite difference in likes and dislikes when it comes to PvP players and PvE players - perhaps they could have done more to have the game tuned for one or the other preference - and adjusted the game accordingly
Its hard to do, but currently I feel everyone is given one option - quest, which shafts the PvP players in a game where PvP is superior to PvE - I just find it baffling.
But you keep missing the point it's not a pvp game or a pve game ....it's an AvA game . Totally different mindset to develop completely in this game a character has to do both .....even crafting involves AvA .
I find it so amusing how people are complaining about how they upscaled the noobie areas for the toons yet if they didn't do it they would complain their characters can't get to the enemies noobie areas. Any of you are doing so much complaining ever think why they would do this? Maybe because there are more sky shards in these areas you toon has to collect? Or just maybe because this game hasn't even came out yet for you to be demanding so much on release.
I know most of you would try and compare this to that old and outdated WoW saying that oh look at WoW they have more areas than this (and let me stop you now). In 2004 WoW didn't have as much as this game has because the end game you could have gotten from WoW was Motlen Core and Onyxia (raid wise) and a few world bosses. Yet again it still remains that most players in WoW did in fact go to the noobie areas just because it was there. Now this game gives you are reason to go yet people are complaining about it.
I do think they should have made it open pvp and just created a penalty for attacking and killing lowbies. Penalties have been requested for years in these type of games. I have no clue why no company has ever bother to implement some sort of it into their games.
However there is a definite difference in likes and dislikes when it comes to PvP players and PvE players - perhaps they could have done more to have the game tuned for one or the other preference - and adjusted the game accordingly
Its hard to do, but currently I feel everyone is given one option - quest, which shafts the PvP players in a game where PvP is superior to PvE - I just find it baffling.
But you keep missing the point it's not a pvp game or a pve game ....it's an AvA game . Totally different mindset to develop completely in this game a character has to do both .....even crafting involves AvA .
As a player who could care less about AvA, I have to say, I will be driving to keep this game as much PVE as possible with a New Cyrodiil added that is not PVP. As long as you guys don't try to change my part of the game I wont try to change yours...
The truth be told is Raiding should have a storylien behind it, its a very PVE feature in a game. To ask to raid without doing a storyline for it is the most anti PVE statement I ever heard.
However there is a definite difference in likes and dislikes when it comes to PvP players and PvE players - perhaps they could have done more to have the game tuned for one or the other preference - and adjusted the game accordingly
Its hard to do, but currently I feel everyone is given one option - quest, which shafts the PvP players in a game where PvP is superior to PvE - I just find it baffling.
But you keep missing the point it's not a pvp game or a pve game ....it's an AvA game . Totally different mindset to develop completely in this game a character has to do both .....even crafting involves AvA .
As a player who could care less about AvA, I have to say, I will be driving to keep this game as much PVE as possible with a New Cyrodiil added that is not PVP. As long as you guys don't try to change my part of the game I wont try to change yours...
The truth be told is Raiding should have a storylien behind it, its a very PVE feature in a game. To ask to raid without doing a storyline for it is the most anti PVE statement I ever heard.
Imagine the revers of what they're doing though and perhaps you'll understand why PvP players are not happy. What if you had to spend hundreds of hours in a PvP zones where no PvE was present to advance you character to the point where you could be competitive in endgame PvE?
I've seen this video before - basically again veteran ranks = forced PvE questing except this time you start in other faction lowbie areas were those level 4 mobs are scaled to 50VR1.
Man you made me go look this up. You had me scared. You get ranks from AvA too. Adventure zones are not required.
Sorry for you! But I dislike a lot of the decisions that were made with the RvRvR pvp in mind. I have to put up with the pvp focus, you have to put up with the present questy design.
They are more likely to change the XP design than the underlying PvP focus however. So there's a chance for you yet....
See the thing is - we both lose, that's the problem of trying to do both PvE and PvP - its been provren time and time again - focus on ONE aspect and do it well.
Compromising leads to crappy experience for both PvP gamers and PvE gamers.
If ESO was just a PvE game, I'd be happily playing something else, but I really enjoy Cyrodiil and at the same time I really dislike the questing system in ESO.
It feels very bipolar to me.
I disagree with that and I don't even have to say why.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Imagine the revers of what they're doing though and perhaps you'll understand why PvP players are not happy. What if you had to spend hundreds of hours in a PvP zones where no PvE was present to advance you character to the point where you could be competitive in endgame PvE?
But again you are missing the point ....if I only want a pvp game or a pve game I'd play games made for that specific mindset ...but if I desire to play a game that's claimed to be AvA and quest driven pve I'd play ESO
Originally posted by Fendel84M Camelot Unchained sounds more your cup of tea if you want a game focused entirely on PVP.
Who said that? all i read was players not liking the decision for huge nerf to xp from PVP. And its a valid complaint because the nerf was un necessary. Questing is mind numbingly generic and boring however PVP is damn fun.
Imagine the revers of what they're doing though and perhaps you'll understand why PvP players are not happy. What if you had to spend hundreds of hours in a PvP zones where no PvE was present to advance you character to the point where you could be competitive in endgame PvE?
But again you are missing the point ....if I only want a pvp game or a pve game I'd play games made for that specific mindset ...but if I desire to play a game that's claimed to be AvA and quest driven pve I'd play ESO
So your point is anyone who doesn't enjoy questing should just find another game?
Imagine the revers of what they're doing though and perhaps you'll understand why PvP players are not happy. What if you had to spend hundreds of hours in a PvP zones where no PvE was present to advance you character to the point where you could be competitive in endgame PvE?
But again you are missing the point ....if I only want a pvp game or a pve game I'd play games made for that specific mindset ...but if I desire to play a game that's claimed to be AvA and quest driven pve I'd play ESO
So your point is anyone who doesn't enjoy questing should just find another game?
Originally posted by Fendel84M Camelot Unchained sounds more your cup of tea if you want a game focused entirely on PVP.
Who said that? all i read was players not liking the decision for huge nerf to xp from PVP. And its a valid complaint because the nerf was un necessary. Questing is mind numbingly generic and boring however PVP is damn fun.
They should have kept PVE and PVP xp on par.
Again a person who doesn't seem to consider the whole game when talking about XP.
First welcome to the sub conundrum, they need to keep players, that's the chief reason behind this disparity, if it were F2P or B2P this wouldn't be as much of an issue. PVP oriented players are kinda covered in this regard, at least as much as can be expected for a themepark game at launch.
ON the other hand PVE content always becomes an issue as far as retention is concerned (more so at launch), hence why many still prefer the EQ method of setting you back during your progression. It fleshes out the journey for them.
IF all xp was equal the person doing all forms of content would out-level the content, they'd finish the game (what's there) too fast. We've seen this time and time and time again.
Does this suck for some playstyles? I'm sure it does. Does it make sense why they're doing it the way they are? Yes it does.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Fendel84M Camelot Unchained sounds more your cup of tea if you want a game focused entirely on PVP.
Who said that? all i read was players not liking the decision for huge nerf to xp from PVP. And its a valid complaint because the nerf was un necessary. Questing is mind numbingly generic and boring however PVP is damn fun.
They should have kept PVE and PVP xp on par.
Again a person who doesn't seem to consider the whole game when talking about XP.
First welcome to the sub conundrum, they need to keep players, that's the chief reason behind this disparity, if it were F2P or B2P this wouldn't be as much of an issue. PVP oriented players are kinda covered in this regard, at least as much as can be expected for a themepark game at launch.
ON the other hand PVE content always becomes an issue as far as retention is concerned (more so at launch), hence why many still prefer the EQ method of setting you back during your progression. It fleshes out the journey for them.
IF all xp was equal the person doing all forms of content would out-level the content, they'd finish the game (what's there) too fast. We've seen this time and time and time again.
Does this suck for some playstyles? I'm sure it does. Does it make sense why they're doing it the way they are? Yes it does.
Good points but their solution seems odd. If one of your concerns was PvE players running out of content too quickly why nerf dungeons and PvP into the ground and leave questing untouched? Wouldn't the more effective solution be to nerf all forms of exp evenly by a lower amount?
Originally posted by DMKano I've seen this video before - basically again veteran ranks = forced PvE questing except this time you start in other faction lowbie areas were those level 4 mobs are scaled to 50VR1.To me this is pretty lame as an AvA player I feel forced to do something I dislike as its the only efficient way of progressing your character - questing.Why can't we level via AvA and earn veteran ranks again via AvA?Nerfing XP everywhere except questing = lame.My 2c. ESO is such a bipolar game - one one hand they give you this awesome zone to PvP in - and at the same time they force you to progress via PvE which is dull and boring in comparison - again my opinion.
How do you know it's "Actual" end game?
I make videos all the time yo'.
I have an ESO video where I am level 100 fighting a Rancore from SWG lol.
It was actually pretty easy to make believe it or not.
simple if people just keep redoing dungeons they might advance to quickly and then out level quest and same for pvp . but i know what your going to say if they want to they can still do them . but they would be doing them with better gear and higher stats and the level difference works both ways and they could fly through all the content if they just played the pvp for a little while . 1 shot bosses ...
also in regards to pvp it would give cyrodiil to much of a advantage and they need people to have people in other places when the game launches . even though almost every one will probably go to cyrodil . imagine ...all 90 of you guys who bought it in cyrodiil at the same time and a few having alts they will never use in daggerfall
So the parameters are this:
To cater to the solo PvE player who never PvPs and never groups we have to insure that there are enough quests and quest exp that he can go form level one to VR 10 without ever having to grind or group or PvP.
To cater to the player who wants to do everything we have to insure that he never feels compelled to skip any quests so therefore exp from dungeons and PvP must be negligible.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Camelot Unchained sounds more your cup of tea if you want a game focused entirely on PVP.
Who said that? all i read was players not liking the decision for huge nerf to xp from PVP. And its a valid complaint because the nerf was un necessary. Questing is mind numbingly generic and boring however PVP is damn fun.
They should have kept PVE and PVP xp on par.
Again a person who doesn't seem to consider the whole game when talking about XP.
First welcome to the sub conundrum, they need to keep players, that's the chief reason behind this disparity, if it were F2P or B2P this wouldn't be as much of an issue. PVP oriented players are kinda covered in this regard, at least as much as can be expected for a themepark game at launch.
ON the other hand PVE content always becomes an issue as far as retention is concerned (more so at launch), hence why many still prefer the EQ method of setting you back during your progression. It fleshes out the journey for them.
IF all xp was equal the person doing all forms of content would out-level the content, they'd finish the game (what's there) too fast. We've seen this time and time and time again.
Does this suck for some playstyles? I'm sure it does. Does it make sense why they're doing it the way they are? Yes it does.
Good points but their solution seems odd. If one of your concerns was PvE players running out of content too quickly why nerf dungeons and PvP into the ground and leave questing untouched? Wouldn't the more effective solution be to nerf all forms of exp evenly by a lower amount?
Because open dungeons and mobs xp were broken, it was on the point you coud sit there farming bosses and level faster than people questing.
Comments
^
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Every player will have their own specific interests and style of play but this is independent from what a game is. If influences what game you choose to play and how to play it. ESO is about both pve and pvp. How ZOS chooses to separate them is up to them. It makes entire sense that they want all players to participate in all content.
If someone plays only pve or only pvp and then complains content is limiting the fault lays entirely within their own choices and the impact of their complaints should carry far less weight than those players participating in all systems.
You stay sassy!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
+1 This is a quest driven game ...it's how the game was developed
But you keep missing the point it's not a pvp game or a pve game ....it's an AvA game . Totally different mindset to develop completely in this game a character has to do both .....even crafting involves AvA .
I 100% agree with you.
As a player who could care less about AvA, I have to say, I will be driving to keep this game as much PVE as possible with a New Cyrodiil added that is not PVP. As long as you guys don't try to change my part of the game I wont try to change yours...
The truth be told is Raiding should have a storylien behind it, its a very PVE feature in a game. To ask to raid without doing a storyline for it is the most anti PVE statement I ever heard.
Imagine the revers of what they're doing though and perhaps you'll understand why PvP players are not happy. What if you had to spend hundreds of hours in a PvP zones where no PvE was present to advance you character to the point where you could be competitive in endgame PvE?
"You've played for 3 days"
Hah....
That staying power...
Man you made me go look this up. You had me scared. You get ranks from AvA too. Adventure zones are not required.
I disagree with that and I don't even have to say why.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
But again you are missing the point ....if I only want a pvp game or a pve game I'd play games made for that specific mindset ...but if I desire to play a game that's claimed to be AvA and quest driven pve I'd play ESO
Who said that? all i read was players not liking the decision for huge nerf to xp from PVP. And its a valid complaint because the nerf was un necessary. Questing is mind numbingly generic and boring however PVP is damn fun.
They should have kept PVE and PVP xp on par.
So your point is anyone who doesn't enjoy questing should just find another game?
/facepalm
Some serious imaginary reading going on here.
Again a person who doesn't seem to consider the whole game when talking about XP.
First welcome to the sub conundrum, they need to keep players, that's the chief reason behind this disparity, if it were F2P or B2P this wouldn't be as much of an issue. PVP oriented players are kinda covered in this regard, at least as much as can be expected for a themepark game at launch.
ON the other hand PVE content always becomes an issue as far as retention is concerned (more so at launch), hence why many still prefer the EQ method of setting you back during your progression. It fleshes out the journey for them.
IF all xp was equal the person doing all forms of content would out-level the content, they'd finish the game (what's there) too fast. We've seen this time and time and time again.
Does this suck for some playstyles? I'm sure it does. Does it make sense why they're doing it the way they are? Yes it does.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Good points but their solution seems odd. If one of your concerns was PvE players running out of content too quickly why nerf dungeons and PvP into the ground and leave questing untouched? Wouldn't the more effective solution be to nerf all forms of exp evenly by a lower amount?
How do you know it's "Actual" end game?
I make videos all the time yo'.
I have an ESO video where I am level 100 fighting a Rancore from SWG lol.
It was actually pretty easy to make believe it or not.
glad im saving my money on this one.
So the parameters are this:
To cater to the solo PvE player who never PvPs and never groups we have to insure that there are enough quests and quest exp that he can go form level one to VR 10 without ever having to grind or group or PvP.
To cater to the player who wants to do everything we have to insure that he never feels compelled to skip any quests so therefore exp from dungeons and PvP must be negligible.
Because open dungeons and mobs xp were broken, it was on the point you coud sit there farming bosses and level faster than people questing.
Here: http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/eso-reddit-ama-summmary/ search for Experience nerf