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BIG ISSUE: Auto renewal and the Terms of Service (TOS)
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MAY not WILL. 2 very different words, probably put in there as well as something similar in many other games to cover their asses incase something happens where an account is cancelled but still charged. It doesnt mean you definitely will get charged if you cancel within 30 days, it just means that if for some reason you are charged, well you agreed to it and they dont need to refund it. That isn't saying they won't refund it, but technically they aren't required to as you did agree to the charge.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Sorry I'm confused. What billing and overpayment issues? I've been talking about the 31+ day notice.
What are you talking about? I have ZERO Balance on my PayPal account. All I have is a Visa debit card / credit card directly Connected to my bank account.
When I signed up last saturday, I signed up via PayPal and all I saw was a "Canceled" transaction and my bank account was never charged!
As it should be.
I am starting to get the feeling a lot of trolls here are just posting bullshit to feed the rage against Zenimax. Wouldn't be the first time either. /facepalm
Sorry but I had issues with what this poster is talking about as well with STO. The NSF charge isn't valid. Funny it wasn't an issue with Champions Online, same company and the thread he is referring to is valid. Several people have complained about this issue.
Actually, most MMOs that do this might do it a few days before the time is up, at most a week. Heck, I remember some like Rift actually doing so after and giving you a 'grace' period of about a week before they suspended your account (which if you paid, you had to pay for the time you still had mind you). If its indeed how its worded, a full 30 days before your subscription is up EVEN if it is on Hold is very shifty.
Again, the wording sounds far more devious which is a red flag, though I'm giving it a chance its just poor wording.
No dude I have WWE Network, Netfilx, and Hulu and neither charged me anything when I went through it's free stage at all so please don't try to compare them to this. It seems as if people like you who are using this term "Authorization charge" like all companies do this and this is not the case what so ever.
Try to see it this way: when a person first decides to use any of the three I named above there is no Pend to the person's account until after the week(s) is(are) finished.
What is happening with this company is they are actually using a person's billing information as a contract agreement and it is tying the person's money up. Now if this was invalid information I will take you to the update which was posted and you can see that the company (in my opinion) wants or is trying to change but they aren't doing a really good job of it as of yet.
We want everyone who purchased ESO to have immediate access to the included 30 days of ESO game time. In the event that you enter your payment information for authorization and the transaction cancels due to lack of funds in your account, please contact our Support Team. We’ll work with you to ensure you have access to your included 30 days of game time.
Please ensure that you have attempted to enter payment information and had the transaction fail due to lack of funds before submitting a help request. We will get you into the game and playing as soon as possible.
This change in itself is a prime example of a company that knows that "validation of a credit card" and "authorization charge" are two different terms. Validation of a credit does not mean they have to pend a person account for any reason. Validation on means to show that the account exist. A person can have a credit card/debt card without any money to back it up however this card is still in fact valid, it is valid without funds yet still valid. What they are trying to do is exactly the following:
For credit cards, debit cards and PayPal there is no charge made until after your included 30 days of game time has expired. For these payment methods, there is an authorization check performed to ensure the payment method is valid. You may see a temporary account authorization hold put on funds in your account while the verification completes.
The underlined above: why exactly does a person who buys a game and it comes with 30 days of free time have to show any proof of having a payment valid? This is not a statement that should apply to anyone who purchase a game that comes with 30 days of free time or any amount of time until the due date is close.
No, that's not what it means. It's a timeframe for when they are allowed to transfer the money.
Transferring money does not affect your ability to "cancel at any time by revising Your selection in Your Accounts page, or contacting Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com" . It just means that Bethesda will have to refund your advance payment if they have already charged you before you cancelled your subscription.
The 14.99 isn't a real charge, and the 14.99 will drop off in a few days.
Ever heard of Credit Card fraud? Credit Cards that get stolen?
The authorization charge is to check the card is legal and tied to the person in question and not blocked due to fraud / Theft!
It's a Security messure! Plain and simple!
And it's for our own protection! And if they don't do this, we would see these exact same threads appear With People raging how EVIL Zenimax is, With bad Security, not checking Cards to be valid.... yada yada!
TDLR: A Company can never do anything right! There are always trolls....ehh People finding something to rage and complain about!
/FACEPALM
Actually as a small business owner I can see that there actually is a real problem here.
If they are making a charge on credit cards to test the validity of the cards they have created a problem for themselves.
There is usually a fee to the vendor for those charge backs, and some of them depending on the credit card can take up to 90 days to process the charge back.
This has the potential to cost Zenimax a pretty penny in fee's and charges.
There is a reason companies with experience validate with a $1 charge, because the fee is a % of the charge 7 to 10 %.
So if they are testing the full $15 the fee could be $1.50 per charge, that can be a huge loss of profit.
Checking to make sure a card does not mean that a company should place a charge such as this regardless. You are so missing the point here. A company can still validate a card without pending someone's credit card period. This is used when a person makes a pre order also. Have you ever been to Gamestop or any other gaming company online and made a purchase? Do they Pend your account for the full amount? Dude I purchased the $99 collection edition of this game and I know first of all they would not accept my money at all until they shipped the product out. However the only thing that was charge was $5 dollars to the account in the first place. This is a plain and simple way of a company doing this exact thing by charging $1-$5 dollars to someone who is using a credit card online. Not by Pending an account for an entire sub.
This is not a security measure at all however what this did was only hurt their business. I can afford to pay for this game it does not matter to me. Yet I am not willing to just hand over my credit card to a company who is only promoting a "Bait and Switch" type of ToS. I will give you a plain example on how this company really is destroying their own subscription base:
I received my box today (ended up having to order it late due to real life issues) I already told my girlfriend I was going to sub for 6 months because I can't stand the 1 month type of bills that always seem to come around too fast while gaming. So I went to input my code and give my information and here is where I was stopped dead in my tracks. While a few people are complaining about $15 this 6 months sub is at $77 dollars. Now what does my subscription have to do with the validation of my credit card is beyond me. I have seen people time and time again trying to say that all game companies are doing this and it is a lie. All a validation (like I said before and it is evident you missed it or didn't read it) is to show that this is your card and this can be handled by pending a card with $1 amount.
This $1 amount also saves the company the problem of refunding someone's cash in case this is a stolen card. What's the difference if you find out if someone steals your card and uses it to play a game. On one hand they use it to Pend a game for $77 dollars and on the other hand they uses it to Pend it for $1? The difference is you will raise much more hell with a $77 dollar Pend on a stolen account than one with $1.
Now if this is actually the case the what do you have to say about a person who is not using a card? Are you going to do the childish /facepalm again? So the ToS is telling players who don't have a card that they would have to go and purchase a gamecard just to use their 30 day access. Does this seem like they are still trying to validate anything here? I mean seriously dude what are they validating with someone who has neither debit or credit card? Yet this person still have to buy the game go and purchase a game card just to use the free 30 days and if they don't like the game then what? They don't get the refund for this money they spent on the game card. So you see the holes in your story?
You select part of what I had to say yet you failed to even mention any parts of the (UPDATE) that was even listed in their website. Yes they are changing their minds on the way this is being handled and no they did not do it right in the first place. And why would people complain? Because they are paying for something and feel as if they are in a shady business deal which is very much wrong.
I think you are confusing chargebacks and authorization holds. What Zenimax is doing is not related to chargebacks. All Zenimax has to do is...nothing. They have 3 business days to settle the transaction, until then the funds never leave the customer's bank account. If they do nothing then the hold falls off, or it should unless your bank is slow as Christmas (and most banks are).
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
Two quick things:
On topic: To those that think EULA/ToS are legally binding. They are only binding if they do not try to override any REAL laws, not ones they made up. This ToS would not hold up in court. It is very poorly worded yes. The "at least 30 days" part should not be there. But they would not make people pay an extra month.
Off topic: Here is my statement from Paypal showing that they did a hold of the $14.99 and gave it back
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Its a good thing i have a bank that is pretty gangster and will credit back my money and put it in Zenimax's butt .
IF this will never happen ....
IF this is not what Zenimax are saying ...
IF this is not what Zenimax have done today ....
IF the EULA is simply badly worded ......
THEN Zenimax should just change their EULA.
Otherwise tomorrow ......
For me, no i don't think so. In all the P2P games i've played, i've never been charged an extra month. I always cancel a sub between, one day and a week or something stupid like that, before it expires lol.
I wonder why this subject isn't worth any "news", "feature" or "article" on this site. Especially for one writer who likes to pick up hot topics from the forum to give them her own spin and tell us that "it's not so bad".
Guess it doesn't fit too well into the hype-picture...
kage71's explanation is excellent everyone should read it.
People have gotten refunds; if the conspiracy theory interpretation was correct the company would have refused, charging them an extra month.
This thread is straight-out misinformation as presented and it should be locked.
Very nice post.
No wonder not even one of the usual defenders of Zenimax bothered to reply to your post because they know you are right.