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Why Dark Souls is the Best MMO
Tsumoro
Member UncommonPosts: 435
Okay, you got me. "Technically" Dark Souls is not an MMO, however it does so many things right by MMO standards that even current and upcoming MMO's fail to grasp. Allow me to break it down.
The World - With an RPG (to which many MMO's are) if you do not have a world that people cannot get invested into, then all you have is a HUB where people mindlessly push forward until boredom sets in. Some games have good worlds, some have bad. World of Warcraft for example had 3 games worth (not including xpacs) of lore to draw upon to create a rich world and interesting characters for people to invest into.
Dark Souls, a bit different has a rich world, almost forgotten by time itself and filled with the Hollows of past men. The lore is there, but it is in pieces, allowing you to interact with it, to discover the world almost as if it was a character itself. You put together the information, you draw a conclusion and their is enough lore and content to draw from to fill up an Agatha Christie Novel as your investigating mind begins to border on the Poirot.
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Questing - I am not sure where developers got this idea that as many quests as possible makes for a much more interesting game. Having interesting quests do that. So many games in the genre still rely on the 'fetch' and 'deliver' style of questing and for the most part they are obscure and in no way reflect your character, or what your character would do. Why would I carry a pint of milk to an NPC thats 5ft away. I am an adventurer! Not a bloody milk man!
In Dark Souls, quests are subtle, you partake or you don't. Getting involved with quests OR not getting involved with quests help shape the world and the characters. They change, they live and breath based on your interactions and what you are willing to do for them and for yourself. You are alone, in a desolate place, do you band together and help these other travelers to help yourself, do you simply ignore them and allow their journeys to go their seperate ways, or do you flat out kill them to prevent them from taking the glory you desire.
Quests are optional in Dark Souls, the world is there and what you gleam from its skirts its down to you.
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Community - In MMO's as of late, I have now come accustomed to expect (for the most part) of them being solo or single player experiences. You are but a glorified NPC with better AI to other players, there to serve only their need of progression. There is no interaction, no talking what-so-ever and this even continues to the end game. Having replayed WoW not long ago, from vanilla to MoP I spoke to perhaps one person, and that was a dwarf trying to cyber with me on the tram.
In Dark Souls, you do not speak. But, the communication is deeper, richer almost. You make gestures, you use your actions to give direction. You are polite, you bow, you thank. In PvP a gentleman code exists where people bow to one another, be you invader or visa versa. These are all actions and communications not enforced by the game, but things that have developed and evolved over the games life. People understand that they are brothers and sisters in arms, they wish to help, they wish to kill you.
the World is littered with messages, guiding you, or tricking you about secrets and strategies in the area you are in. Ghosts of the fallen can be seen to help educate, to give you a better understanding of the upcoming battle. Without a single word being spoken, I have garnered more communication and social interaction than I have in a long time from MMO's.
Also, remember when people used to band together and talk about the game and work out its secrets? Well, in MMO's everything is now spelled out to you. Nothing there for you to discover, just a list of things to check off on your mighty list. Dark Souls however has entire communities of people, talking about hidden tactics, boss strats, NPC information, Lore etc etc.
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Difficulty - Why are games that are difficult considered bad form or mechanics by developers and other players. It really isn't. The only thing bad about difficulty is if the reward does not meet the punishment or if the punishment is administered unfairly.
In Dark Souls when you die, you understand its your fault. You know you did something wrong, you rushed in, you didn't observe, you didn't react to the world and the information it screams out to you. When you die you are eager to get back into it, you know the thrill of overcoming the difficulty which you fully understand is a manageable difficulty is waiting for you, the excitement the progression. It is all a journey and you know within yourself that what awaits at the end is 'Praise the Sun'.
Anyhow, that's enough for me. But, I just thought it worth mentioning. That with the market today as it is, its kinda killing the genre. It is all hamburgers to be consumed, whereas before it used to be like taking a date out for dinner. You would order, chat and have some fun, you would get hungry, the anticipation for the food coming. It would look wonderful and you ate together making it a social experience.
Comments
In short NO.
Your still designing for a single player rpg shoehorned into an mmorpg.
MMorpgs should excel as meaningful social interactions and player interdependency.
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I never cared about lore in games much. Its stereotypical variants of the same fantasy blablabla from before. WoW is no exception in this respect, neither is any other roleplaying game out there.
Well yeah with quests you obviously prefer those that are long and complex. Vanguard had too many quests, but it had some really long and complex questlines that I very much enjoyed.
I never was much for roleplaying in computer games.
Difficulty is between too easy -> boring, just right -> great fun, too hard -> frustrating. Its a pretty important variable. Vanguard offered good difficulty.
The main thing I loved about Vanguard though was the complexity of the combat system. You really could optimize your routine endlessly.
During the PAX East panel from the front page of mmorpg the Trove guy I believe stated that Dark Souls is a mmo. I think that comment shows how developers are beginning to view very different forms of multiplayer.
In many ways Dark Souls is an evolution of the SP genre. As you stated, the communication is limited, but very deep in many regards. Even though invaders can come and kill you, among many there is a code of honor that many adhere to. It's these unwritten codes of conduct that always interest me in the multiplayer space.
While Dark Souls may not be a traditional mmo, it is a single player game with a unique social experience that doesn't exist in many other online games.
People are so unsocial these days the only player interaction is through the zone chat these days. If a MMO that forced player grouping like FFXI was to come out it would not do well, people want to do their own thing or with a RL friend if anyone.
Dark Souls is simply like old games with a modern look.
It doesn't shove any story in your face. If you want story you usually have to read about it outside of game. NPCs don't say very much to you.
There is limited or no tutorial on how to do things in game.
The game doesn't show you where to go or how to overcome something via GPS, pointing arrows, maps, or hints (short of perhaps a vague NPC hint (think original Legend of Zelda or Dragon Warrior NES)
Quests are there, but again there is no quest log or arrows to point the way. Your path through the game and figuring out puzzles is the quest. In Dark Souls there are secret places that need to be unlocked by accomplishing certain things. This is very reminiscent of old games. An obvious example would be Dragon Warrior needing a torch to light your path in dungeons or finding a magic flute to fly from one tower to another across the water. In the original Legend of Zelda things were hidden under random rocks and bushes. They also had things like mazes where you had to go certain directions a certain number of times or you would just keep ending up back at the same point again. To me this is good design. To others it's just a waste of time.
Ah shit I read the strategy guide on my first playthrough cause I had no idea where to go at times and got so lost.
I think that's the point. You are going somewhere you have never been before and don't have anyone or anything to guide you along. As you play more and more you learn about the place you are in, how to navigate through it, and what needs to be done to progress further.
I am very poor with the analog stick will I have difficulty with this and its sequels ? I have them all my son got them for the PS 2. Thing is I play on the PS 2 I play games like Final Fantasy and Tales of Xillia and Ni No kuni games like that. I cannot however play action games well. Will I be able to play this game ? Or should I just not try since it will be too hard for me to grasp.
I prefer to use an Xbox 360 controller. They say the mouse and keyboard support will be much better for Dark Souls 2 then it was for Dark Souls 1.
Not anymore. If players don't want "meaningful social interactions and interdepedencies", MMORPGs need to adapt or become marginalized.
I bet the devs are going the changing route ... hence LFD/LFR, fast travel, you can treat others as NPCs, and you don't need to chat to play the game.
I wish they put in a difficulty slider. Few games hit the sweet spot of being just right in the amount of challenging without one, for me.
However, since it is a SP game and I don't have to interact with others, i probably will still check it out.
they can stop to play Mmorpgs then no. is the player that need to adapt to the games he is playing otherwise stop to playing them.
back on topic:
is volleyball the best football game?
The devs are chasing the player. Not the other wayaround.
You got it in reverse.
No one is going to play MMORPGs if they are not fun to them. It is the devs who want to tap into the audience who does not want player interdependence, not the other way around.
To be honest, i wouldn't care less. I can play D3, Tomb Raider, and many other fun games. If MMORPGs disappear tomorrow, I would barely notice it (except the fun discussions to be had here).
However, NMORPG devs seem to want to tap into solo-centric, no social type players. If so, i don't see a reason not to give them a chance.
I would say you don't even needs a lot of people .. it is just a convenient label to group a bunch of online games. WoW happens to be in there. LoL happens to be in there. Farmvilles happens to NOT be in there.
It's not just a label. Is a definition, albeit not a hard one. More of on relation to multiplayer - it's more than multiplayer
Really? How come LoL is classified as a MMO by so many? You certainly can matched with many .. but each game consists of only a few.
If mmo means massively multiplayer and massively multiplayer means more than multiplayer, a lot of people and lol is called an mmo then logically they must believe it has lot of people and meets that definition.
No, it's classified as a MOBA, which is exactly what it is, a Multiplayer Online Battle Arena game. Notice it's not called a MMOBA, because there's no "massive" aspect to it.