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Patient Alpha: open Discussion about the character's sexualization...
Anashel
Member UncommonPosts: 200
I have a lot of email from people who do love the arg but where uncomfortable on my depiction of the Patient Alpha. So here is a thread to talk bout it openly.
INTRO
Knowing in advanced it would be a sensitive subject when we started working on Patient Alpha, I asked that this part of the project, the first draft, the shooting and the design, was 100% handled by women. No men were to be involved in the creation of this character.
I had no complains to include a serial killer who molested 200 childrens, or making people listen to live blackbox of people dying in a plane crash: but the underboob: that's where the email / comment started to come in!
Yes our game will likely by 18+, as one player put it so well in the past: They treat you like adult and expect you can take it. But at the same time I understand most of the grief: this one felt "free". Not adding to the game, just sexualization of the character.
THE PATIENT ALPHA
When we created the patient alpha and the The cyber-mage, without revealing too much about the rupture site and the BDNF gene,, we basically face a human who recently became a demi god, slightly out of phase with our reality and with immense power. Our inspiration was a 'mature sized' version of the Nymph from the greek mythology, "spirits who animate nature and could be beholden to death in various forms". In our case, we decided to add a human sin to this character: vanity. All that cannot show in a single picture, but the whole shooting + interview was within this concept.
When I took a look at the current game right now:
League of Angels, World of darkness, Raiders or some of our inspiration like Ghost in a Shell and similar futuristic distopian series, I didn't felt I crossed a line. Mostly because first, it does fit with our character mythos but more importantly: we actually created one that can exist in real life compare to all of the fictional heroin who just plain can't exist on a real human body.
CONCLUSION
Now, I have 2 little daughters. Solvej, 5 years old and Mélia, 2 years old. In 12 years, this probably what I am going to look like when boyfriends will come near the house.
If by the depiction of Patient Alpha I have insulted any women, I deeply apologize. Seriously. But I beg you to give us the chance to show you this character. That actress was awesome and she pulled it out with the same force and impact that I saw from summer glau in Firefly or Shirley Manson in Sarah Connors Chronicles... When she get mad, sorry but it's just mind blowing.
Comments
I was a little put off by her appearance at first, because of the history/present issues of representations of women in video games... It's a sensitive topic for everyone so I won't get into that.
Now that I know more about her backstory, I think the design is appropriate. Perhaps it shouldn't be the lead-in though? There's other art, of the rupture site, of the class system, and I'm sure there are more things that we haven't seen. Of course Patient Alpha is important, from my understanding the most important, but I think someone else should be the face of the Facebook and Twitter pages, for example.
A.K.A. nikel
I find Patient Alpha's outfit, while revealing, is at least tolerable. She's clearly powerful and she's a 'Cyber-Mage'. There could be some practicality to the outfit. If you're going to hook up to all sorts of machines, clothing just gets in your way. And even if not, who seriously would risk their life telling her to change her clothing? People usually like living.
She knows she can pull it off and she flaunts it.
We're given reasons for why she wears this. It's not as if she was wearing a plate bikini and somehow everyone pretended that said plate bikini was practical in combat.
If she wants to look sexy, that's her choice, and so long as there's reasoning of some kind behind it, it shouldn't be a problem. As you said, you created a woman who could exist within the confines of the setting - it's not the most typical thing by any means, however. On top of that, she isn't being used for fanservice or indecent shots every time we see her. All we've seen of her has her sitting regally.
It is a highly sexual outfit, but I try to ignore that in favor of the game itself.
This game is far more than Patient Alpha.
(On that note, Alpha's image probably shouldn't be the main marketing image, as that's what's causing all the uproar. Maybe a picture that better embodies the Black Watchmen or the PARG you want to make would be a better choice.)
When I saw "Patient Alpha" I saw no problem with the design. People wear more revealing things in public in real life. I'm married and I have three kids, two of which are girls. That outfit isn't even that revealing. Actresses on the red caret have worn outfits that show off more.
If she were male and topless you probably wouldn't have gotten a single complaint. People need to realize this double standard nonsense needs to end. However the truth is that it's irrelevant. Whether male or female, sexualization or not, it's how the creator envisioned the character. No one has any right to demand the creator change their idea. I have a major problem with localization censorship for this same reason, but that is off topic.
Simply put, if it offends you, go elsewhere. No one forces you to play this. I abhor the fact that violence on a massive scale is fine, but the second anyone sees something that can kind of in any way be considered anything sexual people lose their minds. At least in the USA. I can't speak for other countries. Personally if I had to choose, I'd rather my son or daughters saw a pair of breasts than someone being eviscerated or skinned alive.
To me it looks less like sexualization and more like something from The Fifth Element. And that is a movie that's just fun.
Definitely not crossing any line I think. Even less if you compare her to Kusanagi (and GitS is 25years old... strange that some people became this prude over the years as it seems
)
Maybe just me, but my first thought when I saw her was Mme. Web from Marvel. The lights on the top and the "scarfs" down - and on the first draft with the machine behind it resembles even more to her. Only younger, ofc.
I think it's a nice job for Patient Alpha, no swords / guns / chainmail bikinis, just a plain, simple room with a chair.
"'GitS is 25years old..."
Already? ouch....
I have to be honest and say that I find it a little bit too much. She looks more like a porn actress to me than anything else...
Nevertheless, I have to agree with the others on this subject. If this is your vision then you have the right to make it so. It's just this overused over-sexualisation that puts me off. Most of the time such things are only used to attract players to a shitty game. Therefore, by looking at her I don't think of an interesting character but a trap to lure more testosterone-driven teenagers into the game.
You can definitely do what you think is the right presentation of your character. You can't make it perfect for everyone.
Fubar over on TSW's forums. [Also in the German forums: Fubar]
Yep... even Osii's anime version is almost 20 (1995 I think). Time is passing quickly...
Were the emails you received about being offended, or just insulted by such a silly looking outfit? Because my reaction is the latter. Objectification is imo, when sex is used as a blunt instrument. People say it fits. Really? lol Ok.
There's really no reality where an outfit like that makes sense. But this is fantasy, but still... there's thresholds of realism and typically it's good to keep it all in the same ring.
I feel like when someone designs outfits, especially for female characters, like this, they asked 'why not', when they should have asked 'why'.
Thanks for the explanation.
I like Alpha's design. It's fun, and I like the inspiration for it.
I also understand that some people don't like the design and won't play the game because of it. I disagree that her design is immature, oversexualized, or bad in pretty much any way.
If you change the design to something conservative to avoid the controversy, that's ok. It's more important for the ARG to succeed than to maintain Alpha's design.
Thanks for taking a risk with Alpha's mature design. If you decide to keep her the same, great! If you decide to change, I understand.
I'm a 30-*cough**cough*-something year old woman and I don't find Agent Alpha over sexualized. Sexy, sure, but I have no issue with how she's dressed. Truthfully if she had been showing cleavage and not under-boob it wouldn't even be an issue. It's still a part of her breast, just a different part than we are conventionally used to seeing all the time on TV, the movies, print and the internet.
Sexuality isn't just clothing, but also posture and mannerisms; she's not sitting there with her legs spread, licking her lips, or touching herself. She's just sitting there in a pose I have to agree with a previous poster - regal. I see arrogance and self confidence, not some sort of sex bunny.
People are going to be offended by just about anything, if given half the chance. If they aren't going to give money because of her outfit, they will likely be offended by something else later in the game as well.
Having said that though, I would put Agent Alpha behind some sort of...block or page, just to make things age appropriate in case someone younger than the mature audience this PARG is intended for. Have warnings visible for what people who DO play for will be in for. If they are still offended, this might not be the game for them in the first place.
Well, I do those ARG to provoke, invent, create, amaze, scared, surprised and piss off people. Push them to their limit. I got death threat in the last ARG, that didn't stop me. In fact my first reaction was "Fuck yeah! We are on the right path!"
Would I change my Patient Alpha, fired the actress and remove her as one of the main plot of the storyline? No.
Does breast make me react in 2014? No.
Is she more provocative and incendiary then Besson's Fifth Elements? No.
Did I think that the Patient Alpha would received a "Simone de Beauvoir naked picture controversy"? No.
Does all the reactions means we would have done the Alpha Patient differently: sure!
Are we going to change it? No, we love her now! This actress is awesome.
I leave it to this lovely article ...
You hit the nail right on the head. I should actually warn people better at the start because you are completely right. Our past and this future ARG may not be the right form of entertainment for you. Even if deep down I try to reach everyone.
This is hardly an issue unique to this ARG or situation. It is a macro issue in many different medias. It has become so large that it has become almost an automatic thing in the game industry for a female character's outfit to be revealing. Now do not misunderstand me here, I like sexy outfits and think there is a place for them. I'm not offended by them, or by the way Patient Alpha looks.
That being said, I don't think there is necessarily a reason that Patient Alpha would be wearing that outfit beyond "this is sexy". Let's be perfectly honest here, sex sells. Mila Jovovich wore that white strap outfit for only a short time in the 5th Element, but scenes of her in that dominated every trailer, ad and poster I remember seeing. The outfit really didn't serve any purpose, she could have just as easily been in a bodysuit. But Mila + sexy outfit = ticket sales. or at least I imagine it did
.
I know comparisons have been made to other games and medias as justification. I mean Ghost in a Shell does it, so it is ok, right? I am staring as I write this reply on MMORPG.com at a ad for League of Angels, another "piece of evidence" suggested. The woman in the add is wearing one of the very briefest bits of armor I have seen in a fantasy game, and the ad has a tagline "2014 Hottest MMORPG". Given that I have never seen tons of accolades being heaped on this game, I have to think that "Hottest" just might be referring to the hot girl.
So in the end, it is not something that is going to impact my enjoyment of the ARG. But I do why it would frustrate people. And I don't think there is a good reason for Patient Alpha's choice of outfit. If the actress was wearing a full robe it would change nothing at all about her role in the story, her performance or any meaningful aspect of her character. And just because lots of other games have rampant sexualization in them, I don't know if that is the studiest ground to stand on to claim justification
I wholeheartedly agree with barezz here. Like I said before I do not think you have to change it now but I think your reasons are kind of weak. Why?
Just your examples League of Angels and Raiderz show me that these games tricked you into thinking this would be a great outfit for a female character (or at least allows you to do the same). I'm sorry, but why does the Assassin (or whatever she is) in Raiderz have to show such cleavage? Wouldn't she be as nimble with better armour that covers more of her vulnerable body parts? What reasons are there for this outfit other than to attract an audience? League of Angels is even worse and bringing it up as an example makes me kind of disappointed in you. You should have looked at that picture an said "What were they thinking? No woman on earth would wear that into battle."
Besides all of that, there are other options than to start from scratch. You are talking about firing that actress like it is the only way. No, it is not! Why can't you give her a more decent outfit? Why can't she be a real queen with an imperial outfit? Where does she got that current clothing from anyway?
This topic is NOT about what we can take or that we should go if we feel provoked. It is just a deep-drawn sigh of the choices that were made with this character. We don't complain about crossing borders here, at least I don't. I am complaining about the cookie-cutter half-naked female character that shouldn't be missing in anything that has to sell good. If you really have a great game to sell here then you can sell it with a character that has some monumental clothing. A character that doesn't have to cross it's legs while sitting down to avoid showing too much.
e/ And I have read the backstory that she is immune to almost any kind of damage. Doesn't mean she doesn't get cold sometimes. :-P
e2/ Same for the Cybermages. I see no valid point in making that gigantic hole in that dress. It looks really forced. Seems like you have to comply to a standard for a certain percentage of visible skin.
Fubar over on TSW's forums. [Also in the German forums: Fubar]
I am always torn on these sorts of topics.
If I fall in the "No one dresses like this for day to day stuff, let alone being active" camp, then, unfortunately, that would be to deny that my friends exist. I may not dress like that, but I can think of 3-4 of my peers who would definitely be into that outfit in a shot.
I am in the "I hate chainmail bikinis" camp, and this does not fall under chainmail bikinis.
As a female, would I draw (if I could draw) characters like this? Probably not, but then all my characters would have short spikey hair and live in combat pants, and be much more like Tank Girl than Patient Alpha.
Is sexism an issue in games? For sure, but this is not an example of it in my opinion (YMMV)
For me, UA Flight 232 audio is more disturbing than some underboob and some not really there clothing, but then I live in a country where we have actual boobs on billboards from time to time, so it may also be a cultural viewpoint.
I didn't notice. Does this mean I am going to be in trouble for this game? I was thinking more of a Sharon Stone Basic Instinct level of attitude when I saw her. I did not notice the breast display. I went on and didn't worry.
Would she have been more accepted if she had shown up in Trinity style uniform from The Matrix then? Are we suppose to be appalled and need to change cosplay? I see enough pictures of cosplay and it is more frightening to me about ages there than a woman I can tell is 18+. Some of the red carpet events for movies show some stars were this type of clothing. I don't get it and I am very pleased with what I was presented.
Still curious though on if I missed something for not picking apart the photo of Alpha.
I don't really feel offended by patient alpha. If TBW is meant to be a 18+ experience (as in we will be treated as adults), I don't see why it would be shocking to have such a character.
As far as showing skin, F2P MMOs tend to be waaaaaay worse. If you want an example, just remove adBlock and look at an ad on this site. Patient alpha doesn't have a provocative posture either (unlike those F2P MMOs). It is not the breats which are enphasized in the picture. Furthermore, given the description of her in this thread, I think it even seems to be fitting quite well.
Or, if you don't want to remove Adblock, here's an example: http://images.mmorpg.com/images/laapr14_mmorpg_skin_04.jpg
I wonder, how can she walk without pinching it...
So yep, as I wrote earlier, both the actress and the outfit / environment is fine imo.
I bet the emails were from men who are white knighting. whenever someone brings up oversexualization of characters I always remember when the Guild Wars 2 development team did a open question session at a gaming convention.
one of the questions was by a guy in the audience asking the developers about (paraphrasing) "why are all the women characters oversexualized with "skimpy" outfits". One of the designers who just happened to be a woman took the mic and said "i don't know, i thought the outfits were pretty"
I play MMORPGs with my wife and sister in law (yeah i know big pool of opinion) and they always have some of the skimpiest armor that show the most skin on.
And in my opinion as a Player you should not try to reach everyone. We all have our likes and dislikes. Preferences. Culture. Language. Beliefs. "Mind Set". View of what reality is itself. If you can reach a few you're doing good. If you can reach many but not all you hit the jackpot.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do or anything like that.... but if you were my friend in real life and you asked me what I thought, what I am writing now is what I would say. My counsel to you.
Make the Game you and your Team dream of making. Get passionate about it and stay that way if you can in this screwed up world. Share your dream with those who appreciate it, for not everyone can or will try to appreciate it. Appreciate those who appreciate your dream. That's all a Player like me asks for from Devs. Love your game. Play it when you have time. Still in touch with it.
I see nothing wrong with the character in question, or how She's portrayed or clothed. I have no objections. She is a character I would respect and fear if I met a women like her in real life. I get the sense that if you changed her the changes would dull the dream.
Carry On.