Multi-boxing is allowed in WoW and EVE. Botting isn't.
Botting in ESO works so well because of how they handled resource nodes and boss spawns. If they figure out a way to randomize these nodes or make a mini game out of gathering them, bots would be much less prevalent. If they made the little mini-bosses either difficult or made them drop no loot, botting would also be less prevalent. They just designed their systems up to this point to be a great place for botters.
WoW does not allow you to chain your characters together...it gets you banded. If all follow and repeat the same action...all mages all cast firebolt the same moment together and you report they get banned in WoW.
Eve has mining bots that get banned...separate issues.
So far botting past level 14 has not been an issue for me. Have not really seen it but once at around lvl 27 and it was a chain bot multiboxer running around a dungeon. The teleporting guys I have not seen past the first zone. On par I would not say my experience or negative experience from bots has been any worse than WoW or Eve. Annoying, but hardly game breaking.
Of course bots gets banned. And bots should be banned in this game and any game in my opinion. ESO just opens itself up to very easy botting compared to other games.
I have seen all these things in other MMOs and I am sure ESO will fix most of the issues. Personally I couid care less because the game is better than any MMO that has been released. This is the MMO I have been waiting for since I played Ever Quest. They have created a single player MMO and they listen to their player base on changes that need to occur.
Most MMOs I never make it past 20th level because the game get grindy and leveling takes forever. In ESO I am already 30th and still loving the game. I can see playing it for years as they appear to be commited to updating on a regular basis.
I see all the people hating this game and all that says is people care about the game. It would be far worse to see no one talking about ESO.
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
I think I've always been pretty vocal. Especially when it's not popular. But I guess I am getting even more critical of all the games now. I've lost count of how many big title MMOs I have played in the past couple years. Watching the new ones come out along with the changes in the old ones, I can say one thing. It's not really about ESO anymore. With each game released, it gets worse and worse.
This whole genre is just plain broken.
ESO just seems to be the epitome of what's wrong with MMORPG development. MMORPG players need to stop giving crap games a pass and developers and publishers need to learn that quality will bring long term profits, not marketing well known IPs to sell a brand with little behind it.
Multi-boxing is allowed in WoW and EVE. Botting isn't.
Botting in ESO works so well because of how they handled resource nodes and boss spawns. If they figure out a way to randomize these nodes or make a mini game out of gathering them, bots would be much less prevalent. If they made the little mini-bosses either difficult or made them drop no loot, botting would also be less prevalent. They just designed their systems up to this point to be a great place for botters.
WoW does not allow you to chain your characters together...it gets you banded. If all follow and repeat the same action...all mages all cast firebolt the same moment together and you report they get banned in WoW.
Eve has mining bots that get banned...separate issues.
So far botting past level 14 has not been an issue for me. Have not really seen it but once at around lvl 27 and it was a chain bot multiboxer running around a dungeon. The teleporting guys I have not seen past the first zone. On par I would not say my experience or negative experience from bots has been any worse than WoW or Eve. Annoying, but hardly game breaking.
Of course bots gets banned. And bots should be banned in this game and any game in my opinion. ESO just opens itself up to very easy botting compared to other games.
Well then....so basically it is an acceptable thing since 2008...why are people bitching about it then....it is in WoW. It still stands that WoW accepted either because they did not care or could not stop it....but you expect ESO to care and stop it. *Shrug*
I did notice nothing from you on EVE still having bots in it...after all these years....hummmmm
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
I think I've always been pretty vocal. Especially when it's not popular. But I guess I am getting even more critical of all the games now. I've lost count of how many big title MMOs I have played in the past couple years. Watching the new ones come out along with the changes in the old ones, I can say one thing. It's not really about ESO anymore. With each game released, it gets worse and worse.
This whole genre is just plain broken.
ESO just seems to be the epitome of what's wrong with MMORPG development. MMORPG players need to stop giving crap games a pass and developers and publishers need to learn that quality will bring long term profits, not marketing well known IPs to sell a brand with little behind it.
But I do not find the game to be crappy....I find EVE, TERA, Wildstar, Darkfall, UO, and Evercrack 1 & 2 to be a pile of crap, but I like ESO, WoW, Shadowbane, LoTR, AC, and DDO.
Multi-boxing is allowed in WoW and EVE. Botting isn't.
Botting in ESO works so well because of how they handled resource nodes and boss spawns. If they figure out a way to randomize these nodes or make a mini game out of gathering them, bots would be much less prevalent. If they made the little mini-bosses either difficult or made them drop no loot, botting would also be less prevalent. They just designed their systems up to this point to be a great place for botters.
WoW does not allow you to chain your characters together...it gets you banded. If all follow and repeat the same action...all mages all cast firebolt the same moment together and you report they get banned in WoW.
Eve has mining bots that get banned...separate issues.
So far botting past level 14 has not been an issue for me. Have not really seen it but once at around lvl 27 and it was a chain bot multiboxer running around a dungeon. The teleporting guys I have not seen past the first zone. On par I would not say my experience or negative experience from bots has been any worse than WoW or Eve. Annoying, but hardly game breaking.
Of course bots gets banned. And bots should be banned in this game and any game in my opinion. ESO just opens itself up to very easy botting compared to other games.
Well then....so basically it is an acceptable thing since 2008...why are people bitching about it then....it is in WoW. It still stands that WoW accepted either because they did not care or could not stop it....but you expect ESO to care and stop it. *Shrug*
I did notice nothing from you on EVE still having bots in it...after all these years....hummmmm
I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between botting and multi-boxing. Someone is actually behind the computer when they are muti-boxing whereas someone is not when botting. I expect all games to stop botting especially when it is running rampant.
I think there are bots in EVE, but they are less prevalent than in ESO. I play EVE on the regular and there are certainly quite a few multi-boxers out there. The reason why botting is dangerous in EVE is because people can just roll over and blow your shit up and take it. Or, if in a safe-ish area, can be reported and banned like in any game. Losing an account in EVE to a ban is just awful because of the amount of time it takes to get skills back up to a level where you can bot again.
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
I think I've always been pretty vocal. Especially when it's not popular. But I guess I am getting even more critical of all the games now. I've lost count of how many big title MMOs I have played in the past couple years. Watching the new ones come out along with the changes in the old ones, I can say one thing. It's not really about ESO anymore. With each game released, it gets worse and worse.
This whole genre is just plain broken.
ESO just seems to be the epitome of what's wrong with MMORPG development. MMORPG players need to stop giving crap games a pass and developers and publishers need to learn that quality will bring long term profits, not marketing well known IPs to sell a brand with little behind it.
But I do not find the game to be crappy....I find EVE, TERA, Wildstar, Darkfall, UO, and Evercrack 1 & 2 to be a pile of crap, but I like ESO, WoW, Shadowbane, LoTR, AC, and DDO.
And I won't tell you you are wrong, I can't say I agree with the list you have, but those games appeal to you and that's fine, but it doesn't mean they don't have their issues. Too many people are trying to hide the game's issues. That doesn't help. Right up until it's F2P announcement, SWTOR fans would post screenshots of Fleet populations to try to "prove" the game's population was fine. Where did that denial get them? Real issues need to be exposed not burried and hiden, Then then need to be either fixed, or learned from so the next developer can avoid a pitfall......which they NEVER do and have to wonder how much of that comes from fanboys pumping sunshine up the developer's asses during development.
As for...."Maybe the genre is only broken for YOU". Yeah, I know. I've heard that and maybe it's true, But I also know there are plenty of people who also feel that way.
The experience we had with our games when we came into the genre simply doesn't exist anywhere anymore. And It's not nostalgia, the games have truly changed.
I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between botting and multi-boxing. Someone is actually behind the computer when they are muti-boxing whereas someone is not when botting. I expect all games to stop botting especially when it is running rampant.
I think there are bots in EVE, but they are less prevalent than in ESO. I play EVE on the regular and there are certainly quite a few multi-boxers out there. The reason why botting is dangerous in EVE is because people can just roll over and blow your shit up and take it. Or, if in a safe-ish area, can be reported and banned like in any game. Losing an account in EVE to a ban is just awful because of the amount of time it takes to get skills back up to a level where you can bot again.
you think....that sounds official....hey lets take this guy on the internets word and not the other people on here and in the Eve forums that complain about EVE bots strip mining....that sounds good. Frankly I know whole guilds that bot mine in Eve...I find your tale hard to believe. You can find sites selling bot mine programs...they are simple.
If you want to be condescending to me to feel better please do explain in small words. How do you know the ESO "bots" are not multi-boxers will the others just tied to the first guy....that was 2 of the screen shots above. 3 bots following the first guy killing stuff but they all repeat the same action as the first, same as in WoW. So you can prove those are bots and not just a multi-boxer? Please do.
I find your personal and very limited experience to be hardly enough for me to believe.
I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between botting and multi-boxing. Someone is actually behind the computer when they are muti-boxing whereas someone is not when botting. I expect all games to stop botting especially when it is running rampant.
I think there are bots in EVE, but they are less prevalent than in ESO. I play EVE on the regular and there are certainly quite a few multi-boxers out there. The reason why botting is dangerous in EVE is because people can just roll over and blow your shit up and take it. Or, if in a safe-ish area, can be reported and banned like in any game. Losing an account in EVE to a ban is just awful because of the amount of time it takes to get skills back up to a level where you can bot again.
you think....that sounds official....hey lets take this guy on the internets word and not the other people on here and in the Eve forums that complain about EVE bots strip mining....that sounds good. Frankly I know whole guilds that bot mine in Eve...I find your tale hard to believe. You can find sites selling bot mine programs...they are simple.
If you want to be condescending to me to feel better please do explain in small words. How do you know the ESO "bots" are not multi-boxers will the others just tied to the first guy....that was 2 of the screen shots above. 3 bots following the first guy killing stuff but they all repeat the same action as the first, same as in WoW. So you can prove those are bots and not just a multi-boxer? Please do.
I find your personal and very limited experience to be hardly enough for me to believe.
Um, ok. You can attack me personally. ESO has a shitload of bots. People don't like bots. You can try and spin it so that all the bots are multiboxers - using the exact same pattern for hours and hours straight. You can try and pretend the bots that are flying around the world and gathering from underground just aren't there. The reality is that there are lots of bots in the game and they need to be dealt with.
The way I had suggested they deal with this in my first post was to add a mini game to the nodes or randomize their placement more. They could also make the little bosses much less appealing to grind (which I think they've already started to try and do).
Sticking your head in the sand and trying to make it ok because bots exist in other games isn't going to help anything. It's not even going to help the image (which I can only assume is why you are pretending it's normal). Because when people see them in game, they know they're there. Bots do exist in other games but other games have systems in place to make botting less appealing and sometimes impossible. ESO needs to work on developing those systems because right now they appear to be doing it with GMs.
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
I think I've always been pretty vocal. Especially when it's not popular. But I guess I am getting even more critical of all the games now. I've lost count of how many big title MMOs I have played in the past couple years. Watching the new ones come out along with the changes in the old ones, I can say one thing. It's not really about ESO anymore. With each game released, it gets worse and worse.
This whole genre is just plain broken.
ESO just seems to be the epitome of what's wrong with MMORPG development. MMORPG players need to stop giving crap games a pass and developers and publishers need to learn that quality will bring long term profits, not marketing well known IPs to sell a brand with little behind it.
But I do not find the game to be crappy....I find EVE, TERA, Wildstar, Darkfall, UO, and Evercrack 1 & 2 to be a pile of crap, but I like ESO, WoW, Shadowbane, LoTR, AC, and DDO.
And I won't tell you you are wrong, I can't say I agree with the list you have, but those games appeal to you and that's fine, but it doesn't mean they don't have their issues. Too many people are trying to hide the game's issues. That doesn't help. Right up until it's F2P announcement, SWTOR fans would post screenshots of Fleet populations to try to "prove" the game's population was fine. Where did that denial get them? Real issues need to be exposed not burried and hiden, Then then need to be either fixed, or learned from so the next developer can avoid a pitfall......which they NEVER do and have to wonder how much of that comes from fanboys pumping sunshine up the developer's asses during development.
As for...."Maybe the genre is only broken for YOU". Yeah, I know. I've heard that and maybe it's true, But I also know there are plenty of people who also feel that way.
The experience we had with our games when we came into the genre simply doesn't exist anywhere anymore. And It's not nostalgia, the games have truly changed.
At the same time people are pushing forward ideas of where games have to go that frankly only a small subset want. "WE WANT SANDBOX. We do not know what is it, but like porn we know when we see it." People expect games to be perfectly suited to them and they they exploded on other people's fun against what the do not like.
For the people that feel like you...either the group is too small for a big company to take a chance on you...or as above your group is fractured. I bet if we take 10 people that want sandbox and ask them for a hidden list of features of be revealed all at once many would have contradictory stuff. AH and no AH, PVE and no PVE, OW PVP and no OW PVP, Full loot no full loot...etc. Why would a big company investing millions aim for this group? That is a serious risk.
ESO is a game with flaws. Many of the flaws are ones that can be fixed in time. Some of the design choices will not and should not be "fixed" because that is the way the game was designed. I ask myself am I having fun inspite of the flaws and if I am I play and pay.
The people that come and try to bash and change the game I like....well yeah I will defend my game for staying with the design choices it has...because I like them. The bots, hacks, cheats, and general crappy things that happen...I have played MMO's since UO in the 90's...every patch, every release, every new hacker with an brilliant inspiration have plagued the games every since. So long as companies look like they are working on it I stay with them...if they seem to put the game in maintiance mode and are not attempting to fix things I move on. ZOS seems to be trying. They are new, I am having fun, I see them balancing, adjusting, and changing stuff...I have faith that they will keep the core I find fun and polish the rest. For that I am willing to pay. A game like EVE that I hated the core I found I could not pay for anymore. That core was what it was. The players there like it...I do not go on their forums crapping all over the place that I want a better PvE experience. I let the game go. For many ESO at the core is not what they want....they need to let go and get more involved on games they can still effect the core.
I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between botting and multi-boxing. Someone is actually behind the computer when they are muti-boxing whereas someone is not when botting. I expect all games to stop botting especially when it is running rampant.
I think there are bots in EVE, but they are less prevalent than in ESO. I play EVE on the regular and there are certainly quite a few multi-boxers out there. The reason why botting is dangerous in EVE is because people can just roll over and blow your shit up and take it. Or, if in a safe-ish area, can be reported and banned like in any game. Losing an account in EVE to a ban is just awful because of the amount of time it takes to get skills back up to a level where you can bot again.
you think....that sounds official....hey lets take this guy on the internets word and not the other people on here and in the Eve forums that complain about EVE bots strip mining....that sounds good. Frankly I know whole guilds that bot mine in Eve...I find your tale hard to believe. You can find sites selling bot mine programs...they are simple.
If you want to be condescending to me to feel better please do explain in small words. How do you know the ESO "bots" are not multi-boxers will the others just tied to the first guy....that was 2 of the screen shots above. 3 bots following the first guy killing stuff but they all repeat the same action as the first, same as in WoW. So you can prove those are bots and not just a multi-boxer? Please do.
I find your personal and very limited experience to be hardly enough for me to believe.
Um, ok. You can attack me personally. ESO has a shitload of bots. People don't like bots. You can try and spin it so that all the bots are multiboxers - using the exact same pattern for hours and hours straight. You can try and pretend the bots that are flying around the world and gathering from underground just aren't there. The reality is that there are lots of bots in the game and they need to be dealt with.
The way I had suggested they deal with this in my first post was to add a mini game to the nodes or randomize their placement more. They could also make the little bosses much less appealing to grind (which I think they've already started to try and do).
Sticking your head in the sand and trying to make it ok because bots exist in other games isn't going to help anything. It's not even going to help the image (which I can only assume is why you are pretending it's normal). Because when people see them in game, they know they're there. Bots do exist in other games but other games have systems in place to make botting less appealing and sometimes impossible. ESO needs to work on developing those systems because right now they appear to be doing it with GMs.
Me not believing you is not a personal attack. If you had a study with say 250 miner checked and only 3 were bots...I would say you might have some that there is not a real problem, but you do not...you have the limited number of belts you visit and maybe some guildies in a limited area. Not even a week ago someone came on this very site talking about the mining bots striping fields. That makes your "I think" pretty much an opinion and not something that holds a lot of weight.
I have never said the bots are not there...I have said their effects on me...and it seems the game are limited. With no global AH they are not destroying the sale of my items to my guilds. From the setup I think they will find limited returns. I have not even see a vanishing bot in the 20+ areas.
The way the game is setup low level resources are not even worth that much.
Sticking my head in the sand...hardly...I acknowledged the problem, but I hardly think, yes I said I think, that it is game breaking. Annoying...yes....make me think the game is sinking...no.
Really good write up Christina. You understood the Bat Swarm problem, that means you've been playing.
I think ESO is in a pretty good place right now. In game sounds and looks lot different than the forums.
I expect the Xbox and PS4 versions to launch later this summer. Yeah ESO is in a good place.
After the 1st month, every AAA title had released their marketing spin numbers. With ESO, the only number we have seen is the number of registered beta users.
Registered beta users?
No, I think ESO is in trouble.
why put this here? are you that bitter over a video game? I do not get it especially from you , someone who generally doesnt get negative here. The game is fine, just because you do not like it doesnt mean its failing because they do not release some fake numbers like rift and the rest of the last 6 years of games. Its a themepark , most here want full loot pvp nonsense dig in the sand games but it has its place just like every other mmorpg out here does. So why focus on the negative for especially over something you do not know is fake or fiction?
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
I think I've always been pretty vocal. Especially when it's not popular. But I guess I am getting even more critical of all the games now. I've lost count of how many big title MMOs I have played in the past couple years. Watching the new ones come out along with the changes in the old ones, I can say one thing. It's not really about ESO anymore. With each game released, it gets worse and worse.
This whole genre is just plain broken.
ESO just seems to be the epitome of what's wrong with MMORPG development. MMORPG players need to stop giving crap games a pass and developers and publishers need to learn that quality will bring long term profits, not marketing well known IPs to sell a brand with little behind it.
But I do not find the game to be crappy....I find EVE, TERA, Wildstar, Darkfall, UO, and Evercrack 1 & 2 to be a pile of crap, but I like ESO, WoW, Shadowbane, LoTR, AC, and DDO.
And I won't tell you you are wrong, I can't say I agree with the list you have, but those games appeal to you and that's fine, but it doesn't mean they don't have their issues. Too many people are trying to hide the game's issues. That doesn't help. Right up until it's F2P announcement, SWTOR fans would post screenshots of Fleet populations to try to "prove" the game's population was fine. Where did that denial get them? Real issues need to be exposed not burried and hiden, Then then need to be either fixed, or learned from so the next developer can avoid a pitfall......which they NEVER do and have to wonder how much of that comes from fanboys pumping sunshine up the developer's asses during development.
As for...."Maybe the genre is only broken for YOU". Yeah, I know. I've heard that and maybe it's true, But I also know there are plenty of people who also feel that way.
The experience we had with our games when we came into the genre simply doesn't exist anywhere anymore. And It's not nostalgia, the games have truly changed.
At the same time people are pushing forward ideas of where games have to go that frankly only a small subset want. "WE WANT SANDBOX. We do not know what is it, but like porn we know when we see it." People expect games to be perfectly suited to them and they they exploded on other people's fun against what the do not like.
For the people that feel like you...either the group is too small for a big company to take a chance on you...or as above your group is fractured. I bet if we take 10 people that want sandbox and ask them for a hidden list of features of be revealed all at once many would have contradictory stuff. AH and no AH, PVE and no PVE, OW PVP and no OW PVP, Full loot no full loot...etc. Why would a big company investing millions aim for this group? That is a serious risk.
ESO is a game with flaws. Many of the flaws are ones that can be fixed in time. Some of the design choices will not and should not be "fixed" because that is the way the game was designed. I ask myself am I having fun inspite of the flaws and if I am I play and pay.
The people that come and try to bash and change the game I like....well yeah I will defend my game for staying with the design choices it has...because I like them. The bots, hacks, cheats, and general crappy things that happen...I have played MMO's since UO in the 90's...every patch, every release, every new hacker with an brilliant inspiration have plagued the games every since. So long as companies look like they are working on it I stay with them...if they seem to put the game in maintiance mode and are not attempting to fix things I move on. ZOS seems to be trying. They are new, I am having fun, I see them balancing, adjusting, and changing stuff...I have faith that they will keep the core I find fun and polish the rest. For that I am willing to pay. A game like EVE that I hated the core I found I could not pay for anymore. That core was what it was. The players there like it...I do not go on their forums crapping all over the place that I want a better PvE experience. I let the game go. For many ESO at the core is not what they want....they need to let go and get more involved on games they can still effect the core.
I think you are making an awful lot of assumptions. And I also think that because of that, you are assuming the people who feel as I do are small. I'm not asking for a sandbox. I was happy with Themeparks. I can recall the exact time it started to cahnge too. I was playing WoW back in 2007. Patch 2.3. That seems to have been the turning point for MMOs.
I think the unsatisfied gamer group is hugh...I just think the individual groups inside of that, as in what they are looking for, are much much smaller. Tapping into those groups is the problem.
Seriously! Does anyone not want ESO to be a good game? Ok ok there are likely a few. But I doubt that any poster positive or negative are in that camp.
Positive posters love the game and defend it.
Negative posters want to love the game and see it fixed.
I don't understand the hostility between the two camps. Its as if the pvp isn't good enough in game it has to occur on forum boards. Except there is no flag to capture, no camp to occupy.
Seriously! Does anyone not want ESO to be a good game? Ok ok there are likely a few. But I doubt that any poster positive or negative are in that camp.
Positive posters love the game and defend it.
Negative posters want to love the game and see it fixed.
I don't understand the hostility between the two camps. Its as if the pvp isn't good enough in game it has to occur on forum boards. Except there is no flag to capture, no camp to occupy.
Think the problem comes in for the positive posters what is being said. Comments like "game sucks"...are not people wanting to see if fixed. That is people bashing the game. Comments about stuff in the process of being fixed are irritating because it feels like people demand perfection when perfection has never been achieved before.
Now you get to the tricky part...people wanting OW PVP...nope do not want it. People wanting Global AH....nope do not want it. There are other points....that are game mechanics that people can not agree on and both side is adamant about them being in our out. These are also mutually exclusive, so the fights could be heated and opinionated.
One man's good game is another man's pile of trash.
Me not believing you is not a personal attack. If you had a study with say 250 miner checked and only 3 were bots...I would say you might have some that there is not a real problem, but you do not...you have the limited number of belts you visit and maybe some guildies in a limited area. Not even a week ago someone came on this very site talking about the mining bots striping fields. That makes your "I think" pretty much an opinion and not something that holds a lot of weight.
I have never said the bots are not there...I have said their effects on me...and it seems the game are limited. With no global AH they are not destroying the sale of my items to my guilds. From the setup I think they will find limited returns. I have not even see a vanishing bot in the 20+ areas.
The way the game is setup low level resources are not even worth that much.
Sticking my head in the sand...hardly...I acknowledged the problem, but I hardly think, yes I said I think, that it is game breaking. Annoying...yes....make me think the game is sinking...no.
I'm sorry to say this, but EVE is really irrelevant to the situation that faces ESO. I only mentioned it because you mentioned it and I explained why they tend to have less bots than ESO. It's fine if you (a person that DOESN'T play the game) want to pretend that EVE has more bots (people not behind a keyboard) than ESO. Even if it does have 1000x more bots, it doesn't diminish how bad the botting problem is in ESO.
But like I said, EVE is irrelevant. The really funny part about your post is that you are acting like because you don't experience them or they don't bother you that they don't matter to people. I think botting might be one of the most talked about annoyances out of all the problems they've had post launch.
And I never said that bots are the reason the game is sinking. I think the game is sinking for many, many reasons. Bots are something that they can fix if they change their design a bit. Bots will probably never be solved, but their success can be diminished incredibly with a few easy changes. They've already shown that they WANT to reduce them. I think that bots will be in control at some point, it's just a matter of time.
Me not believing you is not a personal attack. If you had a study with say 250 miner checked and only 3 were bots...I would say you might have some that there is not a real problem, but you do not...you have the limited number of belts you visit and maybe some guildies in a limited area. Not even a week ago someone came on this very site talking about the mining bots striping fields. That makes your "I think" pretty much an opinion and not something that holds a lot of weight.
I have never said the bots are not there...I have said their effects on me...and it seems the game are limited. With no global AH they are not destroying the sale of my items to my guilds. From the setup I think they will find limited returns. I have not even see a vanishing bot in the 20+ areas.
The way the game is setup low level resources are not even worth that much.
Sticking my head in the sand...hardly...I acknowledged the problem, but I hardly think, yes I said I think, that it is game breaking. Annoying...yes....make me think the game is sinking...no.
I'm sorry to say this, but EVE is really irrelevant to the situation that faces ESO. I only mentioned it because you mentioned it and I explained why they tend to have less bots than ESO. It's fine if you (a person that DOESN'T play the game) want to pretend that EVE has more bots (people not behind a keyboard) than ESO. Even if it does have 1000x more bots, it doesn't diminish how bad the botting problem is in ESO.
But like I said, EVE is irrelevant. The really funny part about your post is that you are acting like because you don't experience them or they don't bother you that they don't matter to people. I think botting might be one of the most talked about annoyances out of all the problems they've had post launch.
And I never said that bots are the reason the game is sinking. I think the game is sinking for many, many reasons. Bots are something that they can fix if they change their design a bit. Bots will probably never be solved, but their success can be diminished incredibly with a few easy changes. They've already shown that they WANT to reduce them. I think that bots will be in control at some point, it's just a matter of time.
You say it is irrelevant but it really is not. You expect ESO to wipe out Bots yet games that have been around for ages have not cured the plague. The standard is set Bots are like AIDS...it can be managed with difficulty, but can never be cured. Even the treatment can take time to take effect to where the condition is only a minor annoyance.
I've decided to stay and play it out to maximum level and see what the endgames like . For me the game is a mixed bag I love parts of it and hate other parts . My biggest problem with it is the way the mega server is fazed .
Its been designed so you see a lot of people in the game world the problem with this has been in the first month that there has always been a lot of people on the same quest as you and what should be fun and challenging is ruined by a feeling that the game is over crowded .To be honest I'm hoping there will be a big drop off in the number of players so I can go back and level an alt without there being too many people on the same quest as I am .
Long term I don't if I will stay or go . I have found a nice guild and that is always a big bonus to a games longevity for me . Theres not much else out this year I'm interested in now . Wildstar didn't play well on my computer ( even though I play TESO on ultra without any problem ) and after Trions made what I consider a move towards pay to win in Rift recently by selling lootboxes with shards in them that allow you to upgrade weapons and armor to top tier legendary gear in the cash shop I'm now having doubts about ArcheAge as well .
I guess for me maybe Elder Scrolls is as good as it gets at the moment .
I bought this game and totally regretted it. I personally do not find first person charge-up and swing combat games fun, this one is especially obscene in its utter lack of combat control.
Originally posted by harvest151 I bought this game and totally regretted it. I personally do not find first person charge-up and swing combat games fun, this one is especially obscene in its utter lack of combat control.
Translation...I made the decision to not check to see if the game is what I wanted and now hang out here to blame the company for my poor decision.
Comments
No, you don't. Completely fine in WoW.
http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/03/13/blue-poster-belfaire-explains-blizzards-stance-on-multiboxing/
Of course bots gets banned. And bots should be banned in this game and any game in my opinion. ESO just opens itself up to very easy botting compared to other games.
Bugs, bots, similar dungeons, camping.
I have seen all these things in other MMOs and I am sure ESO will fix most of the issues. Personally I couid care less because the game is better than any MMO that has been released. This is the MMO I have been waiting for since I played Ever Quest. They have created a single player MMO and they listen to their player base on changes that need to occur.
Most MMOs I never make it past 20th level because the game get grindy and leveling takes forever. In ESO I am already 30th and still loving the game. I can see playing it for years as they appear to be commited to updating on a regular basis.
I see all the people hating this game and all that says is people care about the game. It would be far worse to see no one talking about ESO.
Bitter? Maybe disappointed but for other reasons. But why question my motives. I saw a comment I didn't agree with, so I posted and included why I didn't agree. That's all there was to it
because youre generally not negative nor get involved in focusing on assumptions like sub numbers that 9 times out of 10 are fake and trumped anyways with like you said in your own comment beta signups or active accounts or registered users like every other game. Give the game time to either grow or dissolve why focus on the negative assumption of its dying? Especially when there is no hard data to either validate nor dispute your claims.
I think I've always been pretty vocal. Especially when it's not popular. But I guess I am getting even more critical of all the games now. I've lost count of how many big title MMOs I have played in the past couple years. Watching the new ones come out along with the changes in the old ones, I can say one thing. It's not really about ESO anymore. With each game released, it gets worse and worse.
This whole genre is just plain broken.
ESO just seems to be the epitome of what's wrong with MMORPG development. MMORPG players need to stop giving crap games a pass and developers and publishers need to learn that quality will bring long term profits, not marketing well known IPs to sell a brand with little behind it.
Well then....so basically it is an acceptable thing since 2008...why are people bitching about it then....it is in WoW. It still stands that WoW accepted either because they did not care or could not stop it....but you expect ESO to care and stop it. *Shrug*
I did notice nothing from you on EVE still having bots in it...after all these years....hummmmm
But I do not find the game to be crappy....I find EVE, TERA, Wildstar, Darkfall, UO, and Evercrack 1 & 2 to be a pile of crap, but I like ESO, WoW, Shadowbane, LoTR, AC, and DDO.
I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between botting and multi-boxing. Someone is actually behind the computer when they are muti-boxing whereas someone is not when botting. I expect all games to stop botting especially when it is running rampant.
I think there are bots in EVE, but they are less prevalent than in ESO. I play EVE on the regular and there are certainly quite a few multi-boxers out there. The reason why botting is dangerous in EVE is because people can just roll over and blow your shit up and take it. Or, if in a safe-ish area, can be reported and banned like in any game. Losing an account in EVE to a ban is just awful because of the amount of time it takes to get skills back up to a level where you can bot again.
The road ahead is paved as an F2P thruway for ESO.
The game is just too limited to justify a sub, and neither should people sub for months/years in the hopes it may someday get better.
So, it basically leaves F2P or convert to B2P by simply canceling the sub.
As a full priced game, with sub AND cash shop, the only place this game is going is down.
And I won't tell you you are wrong, I can't say I agree with the list you have, but those games appeal to you and that's fine, but it doesn't mean they don't have their issues. Too many people are trying to hide the game's issues. That doesn't help. Right up until it's F2P announcement, SWTOR fans would post screenshots of Fleet populations to try to "prove" the game's population was fine. Where did that denial get them? Real issues need to be exposed not burried and hiden, Then then need to be either fixed, or learned from so the next developer can avoid a pitfall......which they NEVER do and have to wonder how much of that comes from fanboys pumping sunshine up the developer's asses during development.
As for...."Maybe the genre is only broken for YOU". Yeah, I know. I've heard that and maybe it's true, But I also know there are plenty of people who also feel that way.
The experience we had with our games when we came into the genre simply doesn't exist anywhere anymore. And It's not nostalgia, the games have truly changed.
Some ESO Questions That Also Pave The Road Ahead (asked today):
Is lesser circle still bugged?
Is summoners circle still bugged?
Is larder still bugged?
Why when I press my buttons nothing happens?
Anybody else get that lag spike?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
you think....that sounds official....hey lets take this guy on the internets word and not the other people on here and in the Eve forums that complain about EVE bots strip mining....that sounds good. Frankly I know whole guilds that bot mine in Eve...I find your tale hard to believe. You can find sites selling bot mine programs...they are simple.
If you want to be condescending to me to feel better please do explain in small words. How do you know the ESO "bots" are not multi-boxers will the others just tied to the first guy....that was 2 of the screen shots above. 3 bots following the first guy killing stuff but they all repeat the same action as the first, same as in WoW. So you can prove those are bots and not just a multi-boxer? Please do.
I find your personal and very limited experience to be hardly enough for me to believe.
Um, ok. You can attack me personally. ESO has a shitload of bots. People don't like bots. You can try and spin it so that all the bots are multiboxers - using the exact same pattern for hours and hours straight. You can try and pretend the bots that are flying around the world and gathering from underground just aren't there. The reality is that there are lots of bots in the game and they need to be dealt with.
The way I had suggested they deal with this in my first post was to add a mini game to the nodes or randomize their placement more. They could also make the little bosses much less appealing to grind (which I think they've already started to try and do).
Sticking your head in the sand and trying to make it ok because bots exist in other games isn't going to help anything. It's not even going to help the image (which I can only assume is why you are pretending it's normal). Because when people see them in game, they know they're there. Bots do exist in other games but other games have systems in place to make botting less appealing and sometimes impossible. ESO needs to work on developing those systems because right now they appear to be doing it with GMs.
At the same time people are pushing forward ideas of where games have to go that frankly only a small subset want. "WE WANT SANDBOX. We do not know what is it, but like porn we know when we see it." People expect games to be perfectly suited to them and they they exploded on other people's fun against what the do not like.
For the people that feel like you...either the group is too small for a big company to take a chance on you...or as above your group is fractured. I bet if we take 10 people that want sandbox and ask them for a hidden list of features of be revealed all at once many would have contradictory stuff. AH and no AH, PVE and no PVE, OW PVP and no OW PVP, Full loot no full loot...etc. Why would a big company investing millions aim for this group? That is a serious risk.
ESO is a game with flaws. Many of the flaws are ones that can be fixed in time. Some of the design choices will not and should not be "fixed" because that is the way the game was designed. I ask myself am I having fun inspite of the flaws and if I am I play and pay.
The people that come and try to bash and change the game I like....well yeah I will defend my game for staying with the design choices it has...because I like them. The bots, hacks, cheats, and general crappy things that happen...I have played MMO's since UO in the 90's...every patch, every release, every new hacker with an brilliant inspiration have plagued the games every since. So long as companies look like they are working on it I stay with them...if they seem to put the game in maintiance mode and are not attempting to fix things I move on. ZOS seems to be trying. They are new, I am having fun, I see them balancing, adjusting, and changing stuff...I have faith that they will keep the core I find fun and polish the rest. For that I am willing to pay. A game like EVE that I hated the core I found I could not pay for anymore. That core was what it was. The players there like it...I do not go on their forums crapping all over the place that I want a better PvE experience. I let the game go. For many ESO at the core is not what they want....they need to let go and get more involved on games they can still effect the core.
Me not believing you is not a personal attack. If you had a study with say 250 miner checked and only 3 were bots...I would say you might have some that there is not a real problem, but you do not...you have the limited number of belts you visit and maybe some guildies in a limited area. Not even a week ago someone came on this very site talking about the mining bots striping fields. That makes your "I think" pretty much an opinion and not something that holds a lot of weight.
I have never said the bots are not there...I have said their effects on me...and it seems the game are limited. With no global AH they are not destroying the sale of my items to my guilds. From the setup I think they will find limited returns. I have not even see a vanishing bot in the 20+ areas.
The way the game is setup low level resources are not even worth that much.
Sticking my head in the sand...hardly...I acknowledged the problem, but I hardly think, yes I said I think, that it is game breaking. Annoying...yes....make me think the game is sinking...no.
I think you are making an awful lot of assumptions. And I also think that because of that, you are assuming the people who feel as I do are small. I'm not asking for a sandbox. I was happy with Themeparks. I can recall the exact time it started to cahnge too. I was playing WoW back in 2007. Patch 2.3. That seems to have been the turning point for MMOs.
@GeezerGamer
I think the unsatisfied gamer group is hugh...I just think the individual groups inside of that, as in what they are looking for, are much much smaller. Tapping into those groups is the problem.
Seriously! Does anyone not want ESO to be a good game? Ok ok there are likely a few. But I doubt that any poster positive or negative are in that camp.
Positive posters love the game and defend it.
Negative posters want to love the game and see it fixed.
I don't understand the hostility between the two camps. Its as if the pvp isn't good enough in game it has to occur on forum boards. Except there is no flag to capture, no camp to occupy.
Think the problem comes in for the positive posters what is being said. Comments like "game sucks"...are not people wanting to see if fixed. That is people bashing the game. Comments about stuff in the process of being fixed are irritating because it feels like people demand perfection when perfection has never been achieved before.
Now you get to the tricky part...people wanting OW PVP...nope do not want it. People wanting Global AH....nope do not want it. There are other points....that are game mechanics that people can not agree on and both side is adamant about them being in our out. These are also mutually exclusive, so the fights could be heated and opinionated.
One man's good game is another man's pile of trash.
I'm sorry to say this, but EVE is really irrelevant to the situation that faces ESO. I only mentioned it because you mentioned it and I explained why they tend to have less bots than ESO. It's fine if you (a person that DOESN'T play the game) want to pretend that EVE has more bots (people not behind a keyboard) than ESO. Even if it does have 1000x more bots, it doesn't diminish how bad the botting problem is in ESO.
But like I said, EVE is irrelevant. The really funny part about your post is that you are acting like because you don't experience them or they don't bother you that they don't matter to people. I think botting might be one of the most talked about annoyances out of all the problems they've had post launch.
And I never said that bots are the reason the game is sinking. I think the game is sinking for many, many reasons. Bots are something that they can fix if they change their design a bit. Bots will probably never be solved, but their success can be diminished incredibly with a few easy changes. They've already shown that they WANT to reduce them. I think that bots will be in control at some point, it's just a matter of time.
You say it is irrelevant but it really is not. You expect ESO to wipe out Bots yet games that have been around for ages have not cured the plague. The standard is set Bots are like AIDS...it can be managed with difficulty, but can never be cured. Even the treatment can take time to take effect to where the condition is only a minor annoyance.
Unsubbed but I'll be back once you all finish beta for me, cheers!
There are a ton of games right now and on the horizon.
I've decided to stay and play it out to maximum level and see what the endgames like . For me the game is a mixed bag I love parts of it and hate other parts . My biggest problem with it is the way the mega server is fazed .
Its been designed so you see a lot of people in the game world the problem with this has been in the first month that there has always been a lot of people on the same quest as you and what should be fun and challenging is ruined by a feeling that the game is over crowded .To be honest I'm hoping there will be a big drop off in the number of players so I can go back and level an alt without there being too many people on the same quest as I am .
Long term I don't if I will stay or go . I have found a nice guild and that is always a big bonus to a games longevity for me . Theres not much else out this year I'm interested in now . Wildstar didn't play well on my computer ( even though I play TESO on ultra without any problem ) and after Trions made what I consider a move towards pay to win in Rift recently by selling lootboxes with shards in them that allow you to upgrade weapons and armor to top tier legendary gear in the cash shop I'm now having doubts about ArcheAge as well .
I guess for me maybe Elder Scrolls is as good as it gets at the moment .
Translation...I made the decision to not check to see if the game is what I wanted and now hang out here to blame the company for my poor decision.