You see with all this that the irony is that subscription gaming is tailored made for idle bodies with abundance of time.
Which is often connected with people that do not have their own income.
While F2P/B2P gaming is time conscious - and tailored for people that must manage their time.
Which again is connected with employed and busy people - that have income.
Coming to conclusion that subscription gaming is actually knocking on the wrong door and pissing on its own customers.
Funny thing, isnt it ?
Yep:) IF sub games wanted to stay afloat with their upfront costs, they should consider some variety. It's a good principle that everyone pays the same, but the way it has been carried out for decades is seriously lacking and the competition is simply making a killing mainly because of it.
Go talk to starting young people in Greece, Portugal, Spain etc. Who would like nothing more than have a job, but see all their applications returned month after month.
Go talk to other youths in those countries who do have a job and make 700 euros a month, pay 400 euros in rent from that, not including food / electricity / water / internet / kids etc.
Heck, even look at workers in middle Europe who work their butts off doing hard labor and barely make due every month despite it. Because prices for rent and housing and electricity are frekking killing them.
All those people still have a right to seek entertainment in their free time. While subscription games that they might not be able to commit to, also have a right to exist, those people damn well have the right to defend their view on a payment model for their favourite game. Without ignorant internet posters telling them to work harder.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...
For those people, have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you should rather be working or looking for a means of earning money, in order to pay for your own entertainment?
These are the people that complain that 15 bucks is too much for a potential whole month of entertainment, and yet they dont realise that if they just went out there to do some menial job they could be earning at the very least those 15 bucks in two hours work!
What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?
The only plausible reason would be that a monthly commitment would make them feel they wasted if they did not play all that frequently... but then again, if you manage to play at lease 2-3 hours of entertainment time per month from your MMO subscription, then you already had much more entertainment (price per minute/hour) than, for example, going to watch a movie or a concert...
Everyone that plays mmos pays for internet access and in the case of a lot of gamers so they arn't exactly struggling for money but what they do expect is value for money when theres a lot of gamers that offer similar on a buy to play or subscription based basis .Also buy to play and free to play games offer freedom of choice . If you want to play a part of a game you often buy a DLC as a micropayment or you can opt to subscribe in many cases .
Also in many cases people feel the same about movies they are quite happy to go and watch something at the cinema like the Hobbit which they feel is value for money but they will download other films that they want to watch but feel are not worth the ticket price . Concerts are usually significantly more expensive and they are a real world social experience rather than a virtual one or sitting in a cinema .
Also what you fail to realize probably through your dogmatic approach to life people working menial jobs often have familys to support , children to feed or cloth ,other bills to pay . They may have access to the internet and a computer but their priorities lie elsewhere . I'm also betting your American and you given your opening post your totally ignorant to how people live elsewhere in the world . Menial jobs in many countries are a few dollars an hour because they have no miminum wage . I actually live in the UK which has a lot less poverty than the USA but given I play on EU servers I often talk to people from Eastern Europe where things are quite hard but then again I'm also interested in how things are outside of my country .
I may be wrong but I imagine you have had a sheltered or privileged upbringing my advice to you before making silly threads like this is to go out and get some experience of the world and get some experience of how it really is beyond your mollycoddled existence .
There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...
For those people, have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you should rather be working or looking for a means of earning money, in order to pay for your own entertainment?
These are the people that complain that 15 bucks is too much for a potential whole month of entertainment, and yet they dont realise that if they just went out there to do some menial job they could be earning at the very least those 15 bucks in two hours work!
What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?
The only plausible reason would be that a monthly commitment would make them feel they wasted if they did not play all that frequently... but then again, if you manage to play at lease 2-3 hours of entertainment time per month from your MMO subscription, then you already had much more entertainment (price per minute/hour) than, for example, going to watch a movie or a concert...
Everyone that plays mmos pays for internet access and in the case of a lot of gamers so they arn't exactly struggling for money but what they do expect is value for money when theres a lot of gamers that offer similar on a buy to play or subscription based basis .Also buy to play and free to play games offer freedom of choice . If you want to play a part of a game you often buy a DLC as a micropayment or you can opt to subscribe in many cases .
Also in many cases people feel the same about movies they are quite happy to go and watch something at the cinema like the Hobbit which they feel is value for money but they will download other films that they want to watch but feel are not worth the ticket price . Concerts are usually significantly more expensive and they are a real world social experience rather than a virtual one or sitting in a cinema .
Also what you fail to realize probably through your dogmatic approach to life people working menial jobs often have familys to support , children to feed or cloth ,other bills to pay . They may have access to the internet and a computer but their priorities lie elsewhere . I'm also betting your American and you given your opening post your totally ignorant to how people live elsewhere in the world . Menial jobs in many countries are a few dollars an hour because they have no miminum wage . I actually live in the UK which has a lot less poverty than the USA but given I play on EU servers I often talk to people from Eastern Europe where things are quite hard but then again I'm also interested in how things are outside of my country .
I may be wrong but I imagine you have had a sheltered or privileged upbringing my advice to you before making silly threads like this is to go out and get some experience of the world and get some experience of how it really is beyond your mollycoddled existence .
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
The newer generation of gamers is very different from the last one. They are growing up in an environment where gaming is inherently competitive, and needs to have very quick levels of satisfaction. Paying for long-term commitments is a foreign idea for them. They have no problem dropping 5 on a coffee every morning, because it's instant gratification. They could buy the fancy coffee beans and brew it at home for a fraction of the cost, but the whole long-term commitment thing just doesn't compute.
I see it in how some of my younger friends handle relationships as well.
Anyway, paying a subscription for a game just seems like a waste of money for them, no matter how much data you can show detailing the long-term cost per hour. To them, the better deal is to get into a "free" game, where they start dropping money in the cash shop with funny justifications. One girl I know straight out claims that she's budgeted 10 a week for GW2, because she cut back on smoking. That's 40 a month for chest keys or whatever, yet she won't touch a sub game because "they are a ripoff."
This stuff is here to stay, for the same reason McDonalds isn't going anywhere. You can cook at home cheaper in the long run, but it's quicker and easier to feel full with a quick trip to McD's. And as long as quality isn't a factor, it will stay this way.
Well that is a good thing she probably needed something to take her mind off the smoking . She will probably live a longer and healthier life .
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
You are still missing the point here. This is not about justification of subscription with the CURRENT MMOs available.
It is merely a statement that given the right game, paying 15 bucks a month is totally justifiable.
And to answer the question if there is any game that I would pay a sub right now, I would have to say no, there are no games with a sub model that I would pay for right now. Because sadly their quality is lacking in every way, and I am only referring to the games available NOW.
With that said, I play Rift and if it was subscription I would still be paying the subscription. Though now the game is free to play, I find myself sometimes using the cash shop (which you can buy ANYTHING in there from in game currency) and I spend sometimes 2-3 times the price of a sub.
There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...
For those people, have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you should rather be working or looking for a means of earning money, in order to pay for your own entertainment?
These are the people that complain that 15 bucks is too much for a potential whole month of entertainment, and yet they dont realise that if they just went out there to do some menial job they could be earning at the very least those 15 bucks in two hours work!
What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?
The only plausible reason would be that a monthly commitment would make them feel they wasted if they did not play all that frequently... but then again, if you manage to play at lease 2-3 hours of entertainment time per month from your MMO subscription, then you already had much more entertainment (price per minute/hour) than, for example, going to watch a movie or a concert...
Everyone that plays mmos pays for internet access and in the case of a lot of gamers so they arn't exactly struggling for money but what they do expect is value for money when theres a lot of gamers that offer similar on a buy to play or subscription based basis .Also buy to play and free to play games offer freedom of choice . If you want to play a part of a game you often buy a DLC as a micropayment or you can opt to subscribe in many cases .
Also in many cases people feel the same about movies they are quite happy to go and watch something at the cinema like the Hobbit which they feel is value for money but they will download other films that they want to watch but feel are not worth the ticket price . Concerts are usually significantly more expensive and they are a real world social experience rather than a virtual one or sitting in a cinema .
Also what you fail to realize probably through your dogmatic approach to life people working menial jobs often have familys to support , children to feed or cloth ,other bills to pay . They may have access to the internet and a computer but their priorities lie elsewhere . I'm also betting your American and you given your opening post your totally ignorant to how people live elsewhere in the world . Menial jobs in many countries are a few dollars an hour because they have no miminum wage . I actually live in the UK which has a lot less poverty than the USA but given I play on EU servers I often talk to people from Eastern Europe where things are quite hard but then again I'm also interested in how things are outside of my country .
I may be wrong but I imagine you have had a sheltered or privileged upbringing my advice to you before making silly threads like this is to go out and get some experience of the world and get some experience of how it really is beyond your mollycoddled existence .
so if you think the movie does not worth your money, your allowed to pirate it. whatttt??!!
and you live in uk. would you please give your name and address so i can report you for piracy, because it is crime in this country(uk).thank you. lol
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
You are still missing the point here. This is not about justification of subscription with the CURRENT MMOs available.
It is merely a statement that given the right game, paying 15 bucks a month is totally justifiable.
And to answer the question if there is any game that I would pay a sub right now, I would have to say no, there are no games with a sub model that I would pay for right now. Because sadly their quality is lacking in every way, and I am only referring to the games available NOW.
With that said, I play Rift and if it was subscription I would still be paying the subscription. Though now the game is free to play, I find myself sometimes using the cash shop (which you can buy ANYTHING in there from in game currency) and I spend sometimes 2-3 times the price of a sub.
Why are you trying to generalize an opinion to an entire population of people? Subscriptions are justified when enough people want to pay them and unjustified when not enough people want to pay them. It's just a business model. The validity is in whether people pay the money or not. It's not even that simple. For many games, subscriptions are justified early in a game's life, but not after six months, a year or two years. It's different from game to game too. Some games can justify a subscription, and some games cannot. That isn't a comment on the validity of subscriptions, it's just an observation of how and when people are willing to pay money.
There is no inherent "goodness" or "badness" in payment models. There is only when and how people are willing to pay money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
1) Subscription model you buy the game and pay a monthly subscription for good support, regular updates you may also be buying expansions but if you do they need to be solid and give massive increase to the game demographic.
2) B2P you buy the game and thats it what you see is what you get play it and perhaps get expansions which you also buy.. Not much service expected and updates only expected to deal with bugs.
In both cases I expect to have all content available to me.
F2P on the other hand is rubbish and should be dropped and we should not support it. If they can't make a game with enough quality to support the subscription model LET IT DIE.
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
You are still missing the point here. This is not about justification of subscription with the CURRENT MMOs available.
It is merely a statement that given the right game, paying 15 bucks a month is totally justifiable.
And to answer the question if there is any game that I would pay a sub right now, I would have to say no, there are no games with a sub model that I would pay for right now. Because sadly their quality is lacking in every way, and I am only referring to the games available NOW.
With that said, I play Rift and if it was subscription I would still be paying the subscription. Though now the game is free to play, I find myself sometimes using the cash shop (which you can buy ANYTHING in there from in game currency) and I spend sometimes 2-3 times the price of a sub.
What kind of answer do you expect then? Since all of this is in relation to some hypothetical mmo that is better than anything currently on the market.
Also, one thing I will give you is the most noticeable change in Tera going f2p was not an influx of poor American "free loaders" living a life of luxury off our generous welfare state, it was an influx of mostly Brazilians, Russians, and people from various Latina American countries. In theory people from any country could be posting on this site. Perhaps most of the people complaining about subscription fees are from countries where the average wages are different than where you live and affording a subscription fee may be harder.
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
You are still missing the point here. This is not about justification of subscription with the CURRENT MMOs available.
It is merely a statement that given the right game, paying 15 bucks a month is totally justifiable.
And to answer the question if there is any game that I would pay a sub right now, I would have to say no, there are no games with a sub model that I would pay for right now. Because sadly their quality is lacking in every way, and I am only referring to the games available NOW.
With that said, I play Rift and if it was subscription I would still be paying the subscription. Though now the game is free to play, I find myself sometimes using the cash shop (which you can buy ANYTHING in there from in game currency) and I spend sometimes 2-3 times the price of a sub.
But that's the thing, it probably isn't. The way the sub model works is simple: 1) Pay for the box 2) Pay a sub fee every month to play 3) There isn't.
I've said it before in another thread, the reason why players have an issue with the current sub model is the lack of options. F2P gives players that, even if it has a fremium option.
To give you a comparison, i play many FPS games that i keep returning to, but, i don't play equality every month, or week, or day. A certain month i might play dozens of hours because there's new maps or modes, the other i might play much, much less because i got abit tired, but i still want to log in.
The sub models works on the expectation that i'll play as much every 30 days. Subscribing isn't a problem, atleast for me, i'ts that there's only 1 way to do it, and why the current sub model is so unappealing.
If a game is worth subbing to then I have no problem paying for that sub. I believe most gamers take this stance. Problem recently is new MMOs charge box+sub+cash shop and after squeezing every drop out of that setup, convert to ftp. Its made a lot of gamers jaded and weary.
I favour a b2p model the most. So buy the game and then pay for expansions/dlcs. F2P is really bad from what I have experienced. P2P are usually not worth after a few months at the most. Content simply doesn't come fast enough to justify a sub.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You see with all this that the irony is that subscription gaming is tailored made for idle bodies with abundance of time.
Which is often connected with people that do not have their own income.
While F2P/B2P gaming is time conscious - and tailored for people that must manage their time.
Which again is connected with employed and busy people - that have income.
Coming to conclusion that subscription gaming is actually knocking on the wrong door and pissing on its own customers.
Funny thing, isnt it ?
Following that logic, why pay for monthly anything?
Wanna go to the gym? Pay for a session.
Wanna watch TV? Pay for each show.
Wanna have health care? Pay for each consultation and each drug you take.
... and so on.
The monthly subscriptions for anything could be justified if the content and quality is comparable to your monthly fee.
Which is why some games still have subscriptions and some dont.
Though for a purely financial point of view, some may argue that free to play seem to be making much more money than pay to play.
I'd prefer to pay for my Gym per session. I wouldn't need to pay in the summer when I typically exercise outdoors, and I could pay for the times I need their equipment in the winter.
People have been asking for that type of TV pricing for awhile now. I get HBO for Game of Thrones, I'd much prefer for just the season (while it's current), then having to pay for the entire channel that I don't watch too often outside of GoT.
Healthcare USED to be that way, and healthcare was much cheaper since you didn't have insurances screwing around with billing. People were allowed to make payments on their office visits, and you could get a major medical plan to cover hospitalization that was pretty cheap. We've gone from that to our healthcare system being completely atrocious here in the states (I work for a major healthcare provider btw). It's sad how often people cannot afford the medication they need because their insurance doesn't cover it, and the medication runs upwards of hundreds of dollars, or even worse, their insurance covers a portion and the out of pocket is still hundreds of dollars. On top of all of that, because the weasel insurance companies don't want to actually pay your bills, they are now starting to reimburse based upon patient satisfaction. Which in a perfect world is fine, but now when you have someone addicted to narcotics come in, and they are refused the narcs based upon their history and restrictions now complain and the provider doesn't receive full compensation. So, now doctors are being forced to over prescribe due to their need to be receive reimbursement to stay in business and make a living for themselves (contrary to popular belief not all doctors make hundreds of thousands per year, yet have anywhere from a quarter of a million to a half a million in debt from schooling). Meanwhile, the money you pay for healthcare goes mostly to the insurance company AND NOT to the provider. Yeah....quality, right?
Sorry for the rant, but we are waaaaaay to used to paying subscriptions for EVERYTHING here, and to be perfectly frank, it's not always a better system. More often than not we are not receiving the quality that we deserve, but don't have a true option to vote with our wallets.
all i can say is that using the same old excuse that "not paying a subscription = poor people" is the most ignorant and lame excuse used by anyone to feel better with themselves for their own preference towards subscriptions. Just because i like something in a specific way doesnt mean people who like them in a different way are wrong. People need to grow up.
I always hated subscriptions and preferred free to play games but the free to play model eventually got worse and worse and i lost any preference towards it because of the lower quality and sometimes pay to win. Does that mean im a subscription fanboy now? hell no. Not in a million years. MMOs that have come out with subscriptions for the past few years dont have enough of anything to justify the monthly price.
If the game is worth it then the subscription is fine. What game is worth it in my eyes? nothing cloned from WoW or that has less content or less polish than WoW. In which case i can just go back to that one instead until the new game gets on par with it for the same price. I refuse to pay for less when other games offer a lot more quality and quantity for the same price. Thats not being poor or cheap, thats just not being blind with my money.
Not to mention that subscriptions dont work anymore. There is enough evidence now that subs dont have the same purpose that they had before. THey were supossed to avoid any type of unbalance or advantage/disadvantage between players so everyone was on equal footing. Now you pay the sub to log in and pay more paywalls to get more stuff in a cash shop. Garbage.
The title is offensive. "Cannot pay them". It's like a veiled attack calling people who disagree with subs poor. No, that's not why I don't like them, and in fact, I will still pay a sub for a game I really enjoy - but as a general rule, most companies just can't keep a sub system going for long and still profit big. Some of that is due to the fact that people (like me for instance) think subs are like buying tickets to a show you already own, but I think some of it is due to the massive amount of MMO's that are being released now. The genre is spread very thin.
But come on. I CAN pay a sub, I just don't think I should have to for every damn MMO that releases.
B2P is my choice. I've never played an MMO as much and simultaneously spent as little on that amount of playtime as I have GW2. The money it's saved me (partially because I love the product otherwise it could just as well have been a waste of 60 bucks) makes me favor its chosen payment model, nuff said.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Exactly, this is the self entitlement culture in action ' I see it and I want it for free now!'. These people are also bring dishonest, I find it very unlikely someone in a western culture that can afford to spend time playing games and browsing on forums cannot afford a sub. I call bs.
nah .. you are confused.
It is the devs who offered up free games hoping to attract a audience with some whales in it ... because MMOs are just not fun enough to warrant a sub, particular with some much free competition around.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The newer generation of gamers is very different from the last one. They are growing up in an environment where gaming is inherently competitive, and needs to have very quick levels of satisfaction. Paying for long-term commitments is a foreign idea for them. They have no problem dropping 5 on a coffee every morning, because it's instant gratification. They could buy the fancy coffee beans and brew it at home for a fraction of the cost, but the whole long-term commitment thing just doesn't compute.
I see it in how some of my younger friends handle relationships as well.
Anyway, paying a subscription for a game just seems like a waste of money for them, no matter how much data you can show detailing the long-term cost per hour. To them, the better deal is to get into a "free" game, where they start dropping money in the cash shop with funny justifications. One girl I know straight out claims that she's budgeted 10 a week for GW2, because she cut back on smoking. That's 40 a month for chest keys or whatever, yet she won't touch a sub game because "they are a ripoff."
This stuff is here to stay, for the same reason McDonalds isn't going anywhere. You can cook at home cheaper in the long run, but it's quicker and easier to feel full with a quick trip to McD's. And as long as quality isn't a factor, it will stay this way.
Considering WoW is going 12 months with no new content I tend to agree with her. That's $180 for a year of WoW sub fees with zero new content. Oh and when they finally get around to giving you new content then that will be $40 for the expansion box... so if the expansion pays for itself with box fees what exactly did my $180 in sub fees go to fund?
Perhaps it goes to keep the servers running, customer service, and not having to deal with an in game cash shop... oh wait, the same study that showed SWTOR was making a killing also showed WoW made well over $200 million on it's cash shop last year... $200 million seems like it would cover a lot of servers...
I would say most likely those WoW sub fees are going to fund the $500 million Activision is spending on Destiny, so yes, in this case I would say "they are a ripoff." is an accurate description of WoW sub fees.
You know, I really haven't been bothered by the lack of new content in WoW this cycle. Blizzard has made no attempt at hiding the fact that most players in the game still haven't experienced everything in the expansion. We go through this every time a new one is on the horizon.
Yes, I imagine it's very frustrating for people who play the game a ton, and chew through content within weeks of it being released. But maybe they should slow down just a bit once in a while. Or go achievement hunting. Or run stuff on higher settings. I bet if you look at the average person complaining about no new content, you'd find they just run through everything in LFG/LFR and that's it. No attempt at starting or joining groups for the harder stuff at all. They just take the path of least resistance and complain when it gets boring.
As for where the money is going, that's kind of easy to figure out. It goes to investors and shareholders, first and foremost. Dev expenses are pretty fixed, so it's not like an extra sub means extra dev time. It would be irresponsible to try that.
It's like when you move up an income bracket after a new job or promotion or something. Yeah, some of that extra money will get rolled into increasing your fixed expenses, but most should get invested or saved.
It sounds like what you (and people like you) are looking for, is an MMO that's run as a non-profit, like public radio. Once fixed expenses are covered, most everything else goes directly to more content or service capability for the audience.
Comments
Yep:) IF sub games wanted to stay afloat with their upfront costs, they should consider some variety. It's a good principle that everyone pays the same, but the way it has been carried out for decades is seriously lacking and the competition is simply making a killing mainly because of it.
Sorry OP, but you're being an arrogant jerk.
Go talk to starting young people in Greece, Portugal, Spain etc. Who would like nothing more than have a job, but see all their applications returned month after month.
Go talk to other youths in those countries who do have a job and make 700 euros a month, pay 400 euros in rent from that, not including food / electricity / water / internet / kids etc.
Heck, even look at workers in middle Europe who work their butts off doing hard labor and barely make due every month despite it. Because prices for rent and housing and electricity are frekking killing them.
All those people still have a right to seek entertainment in their free time. While subscription games that they might not be able to commit to, also have a right to exist, those people damn well have the right to defend their view on a payment model for their favourite game. Without ignorant internet posters telling them to work harder.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Following that logic, why pay for monthly anything?
Wanna go to the gym? Pay for a session.
Wanna watch TV? Pay for each show.
Wanna have health care? Pay for each consultation and each drug you take.
... and so on.
The monthly subscriptions for anything could be justified if the content and quality is comparable to your monthly fee.
Which is why some games still have subscriptions and some dont.
Though for a purely financial point of view, some may argue that free to play seem to be making much more money than pay to play.
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Everyone that plays mmos pays for internet access and in the case of a lot of gamers so they arn't exactly struggling for money but what they do expect is value for money when theres a lot of gamers that offer similar on a buy to play or subscription based basis .Also buy to play and free to play games offer freedom of choice . If you want to play a part of a game you often buy a DLC as a micropayment or you can opt to subscribe in many cases .
Also in many cases people feel the same about movies they are quite happy to go and watch something at the cinema like the Hobbit which they feel is value for money but they will download other films that they want to watch but feel are not worth the ticket price . Concerts are usually significantly more expensive and they are a real world social experience rather than a virtual one or sitting in a cinema .
Also what you fail to realize probably through your dogmatic approach to life people working menial jobs often have familys to support , children to feed or cloth ,other bills to pay . They may have access to the internet and a computer but their priorities lie elsewhere . I'm also betting your American and you given your opening post your totally ignorant to how people live elsewhere in the world . Menial jobs in many countries are a few dollars an hour because they have no miminum wage . I actually live in the UK which has a lot less poverty than the USA but given I play on EU servers I often talk to people from Eastern Europe where things are quite hard but then again I'm also interested in how things are outside of my country .
I may be wrong but I imagine you have had a sheltered or privileged upbringing my advice to you before making silly threads like this is to go out and get some experience of the world and get some experience of how it really is beyond your mollycoddled existence .
This is the Alexa info for this site. Check it out, in particular the "Who uses MMORPG.com" section and then go back and read the original post again.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.mmorpg.com
Some things just need to be put into perspective.
How does it even get that info?
To the OP, can you name me any mmorpg worth paying 13 euros per month, every month to play any amount of hours, being it 1 to 100, that also delivers content on a proper pace to justify it, after i already payed for the base game at 60 euros?
Haha, the internet is a creepy place.
Well that is a good thing she probably needed something to take her mind off the smoking . She will probably live a longer and healthier life .
You are still missing the point here. This is not about justification of subscription with the CURRENT MMOs available.
It is merely a statement that given the right game, paying 15 bucks a month is totally justifiable.
And to answer the question if there is any game that I would pay a sub right now, I would have to say no, there are no games with a sub model that I would pay for right now. Because sadly their quality is lacking in every way, and I am only referring to the games available NOW.
With that said, I play Rift and if it was subscription I would still be paying the subscription. Though now the game is free to play, I find myself sometimes using the cash shop (which you can buy ANYTHING in there from in game currency) and I spend sometimes 2-3 times the price of a sub.
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That is assuming it is about cannot paying then something else.
In fact many say they prefer a subscription instead a game with a cash shop because they cannot afford a cash shop game.
15-17 years ago, if you wanted to play a MMORPG you had to pay a sub.
These days if you want to play a MMORPG you don't have to pay a sub.
Not only that, there are many online games.
There is also the fact that returning to a sub based game always involve paying $15 buck for the privilege of logging in.
The only thing that the $15/month buy is (maybe) a better customer support.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Why are you trying to generalize an opinion to an entire population of people? Subscriptions are justified when enough people want to pay them and unjustified when not enough people want to pay them. It's just a business model. The validity is in whether people pay the money or not. It's not even that simple. For many games, subscriptions are justified early in a game's life, but not after six months, a year or two years. It's different from game to game too. Some games can justify a subscription, and some games cannot. That isn't a comment on the validity of subscriptions, it's just an observation of how and when people are willing to pay money.
There is no inherent "goodness" or "badness" in payment models. There is only when and how people are willing to pay money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Basically put I only really support two models :-
1) Subscription model you buy the game and pay a monthly subscription for good support, regular updates you may also be buying expansions but if you do they need to be solid and give massive increase to the game demographic.
2) B2P you buy the game and thats it what you see is what you get play it and perhaps get expansions which you also buy.. Not much service expected and updates only expected to deal with bugs.
In both cases I expect to have all content available to me.
F2P on the other hand is rubbish and should be dropped and we should not support it. If they can't make a game with enough quality to support the subscription model LET IT DIE.
What kind of answer do you expect then? Since all of this is in relation to some hypothetical mmo that is better than anything currently on the market.
Also, one thing I will give you is the most noticeable change in Tera going f2p was not an influx of poor American "free loaders" living a life of luxury off our generous welfare state, it was an influx of mostly Brazilians, Russians, and people from various Latina American countries. In theory people from any country could be posting on this site. Perhaps most of the people complaining about subscription fees are from countries where the average wages are different than where you live and affording a subscription fee may be harder.
But that's the thing, it probably isn't. The way the sub model works is simple: 1) Pay for the box 2) Pay a sub fee every month to play 3) There isn't.
I've said it before in another thread, the reason why players have an issue with the current sub model is the lack of options. F2P gives players that, even if it has a fremium option.
To give you a comparison, i play many FPS games that i keep returning to, but, i don't play equality every month, or week, or day. A certain month i might play dozens of hours because there's new maps or modes, the other i might play much, much less because i got abit tired, but i still want to log in.
The sub models works on the expectation that i'll play as much every 30 days. Subscribing isn't a problem, atleast for me, i'ts that there's only 1 way to do it, and why the current sub model is so unappealing.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I'd prefer to pay for my Gym per session. I wouldn't need to pay in the summer when I typically exercise outdoors, and I could pay for the times I need their equipment in the winter.
People have been asking for that type of TV pricing for awhile now. I get HBO for Game of Thrones, I'd much prefer for just the season (while it's current), then having to pay for the entire channel that I don't watch too often outside of GoT.
Healthcare USED to be that way, and healthcare was much cheaper since you didn't have insurances screwing around with billing. People were allowed to make payments on their office visits, and you could get a major medical plan to cover hospitalization that was pretty cheap. We've gone from that to our healthcare system being completely atrocious here in the states (I work for a major healthcare provider btw). It's sad how often people cannot afford the medication they need because their insurance doesn't cover it, and the medication runs upwards of hundreds of dollars, or even worse, their insurance covers a portion and the out of pocket is still hundreds of dollars. On top of all of that, because the weasel insurance companies don't want to actually pay your bills, they are now starting to reimburse based upon patient satisfaction. Which in a perfect world is fine, but now when you have someone addicted to narcotics come in, and they are refused the narcs based upon their history and restrictions now complain and the provider doesn't receive full compensation. So, now doctors are being forced to over prescribe due to their need to be receive reimbursement to stay in business and make a living for themselves (contrary to popular belief not all doctors make hundreds of thousands per year, yet have anywhere from a quarter of a million to a half a million in debt from schooling). Meanwhile, the money you pay for healthcare goes mostly to the insurance company AND NOT to the provider. Yeah....quality, right?
Sorry for the rant, but we are waaaaaay to used to paying subscriptions for EVERYTHING here, and to be perfectly frank, it's not always a better system. More often than not we are not receiving the quality that we deserve, but don't have a true option to vote with our wallets.
all i can say is that using the same old excuse that "not paying a subscription = poor people" is the most ignorant and lame excuse used by anyone to feel better with themselves for their own preference towards subscriptions. Just because i like something in a specific way doesnt mean people who like them in a different way are wrong. People need to grow up.
I always hated subscriptions and preferred free to play games but the free to play model eventually got worse and worse and i lost any preference towards it because of the lower quality and sometimes pay to win. Does that mean im a subscription fanboy now? hell no. Not in a million years. MMOs that have come out with subscriptions for the past few years dont have enough of anything to justify the monthly price.
If the game is worth it then the subscription is fine. What game is worth it in my eyes? nothing cloned from WoW or that has less content or less polish than WoW. In which case i can just go back to that one instead until the new game gets on par with it for the same price. I refuse to pay for less when other games offer a lot more quality and quantity for the same price. Thats not being poor or cheap, thats just not being blind with my money.
Not to mention that subscriptions dont work anymore. There is enough evidence now that subs dont have the same purpose that they had before. THey were supossed to avoid any type of unbalance or advantage/disadvantage between players so everyone was on equal footing. Now you pay the sub to log in and pay more paywalls to get more stuff in a cash shop. Garbage.
The title is offensive. "Cannot pay them". It's like a veiled attack calling people who disagree with subs poor. No, that's not why I don't like them, and in fact, I will still pay a sub for a game I really enjoy - but as a general rule, most companies just can't keep a sub system going for long and still profit big. Some of that is due to the fact that people (like me for instance) think subs are like buying tickets to a show you already own, but I think some of it is due to the massive amount of MMO's that are being released now. The genre is spread very thin.
But come on. I CAN pay a sub, I just don't think I should have to for every damn MMO that releases.
B2P is my choice. I've never played an MMO as much and simultaneously spent as little on that amount of playtime as I have GW2. The money it's saved me (partially because I love the product otherwise it could just as well have been a waste of 60 bucks) makes me favor its chosen payment model, nuff said.
nah .. you are confused.
It is the devs who offered up free games hoping to attract a audience with some whales in it ... because MMOs are just not fun enough to warrant a sub, particular with some much free competition around.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You know, I really haven't been bothered by the lack of new content in WoW this cycle. Blizzard has made no attempt at hiding the fact that most players in the game still haven't experienced everything in the expansion. We go through this every time a new one is on the horizon.
Yes, I imagine it's very frustrating for people who play the game a ton, and chew through content within weeks of it being released. But maybe they should slow down just a bit once in a while. Or go achievement hunting. Or run stuff on higher settings. I bet if you look at the average person complaining about no new content, you'd find they just run through everything in LFG/LFR and that's it. No attempt at starting or joining groups for the harder stuff at all. They just take the path of least resistance and complain when it gets boring.
As for where the money is going, that's kind of easy to figure out. It goes to investors and shareholders, first and foremost. Dev expenses are pretty fixed, so it's not like an extra sub means extra dev time. It would be irresponsible to try that.
It's like when you move up an income bracket after a new job or promotion or something. Yeah, some of that extra money will get rolled into increasing your fixed expenses, but most should get invested or saved.
It sounds like what you (and people like you) are looking for, is an MMO that's run as a non-profit, like public radio. Once fixed expenses are covered, most everything else goes directly to more content or service capability for the audience.
You make me like charity