Not really nariuss the reality is that we decide to play a game if it looks good, the payment model is irrelevant - I.e drip feeding through a cash shop or paying 1 month in advance (more than 1 month I personally never do unless I totally love a game and know I will play during that time)
As a test, have a look for people that say a game is amazing, but won't play as its a sub.
Now look at those that complain + say a game is rubbish- jackpot.
Worse are fools that delude themselves by saying a game is rubbish but they would play if it's free. Really? Paying wont make it more fun, and having people in game that hate a game - poisonous.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Totally agree blamestorm. I could care less about the payment model. There are only two questions trait that I ask myself.
1. Do I like the game? 2. Ask I willing to pay what it costs?
That's it.
That's my same thought process when deciding to buy candy. Its no more complicated than this really. looking into it any further would be as pointless and moronic as arguing on the internet.
The only necessary, plausible reason is that they do not want to pay a subscription. It need not go any further than that.
**
Edit : Comma.
Agree. Then however they should not complain about anything and simply do not play at all. Problem with such folk is that they are very vocal doing their personal crusade agains games with sub.
First off, you have no right to tell people what they should and should not do. That's none of your damn business. Secondly, there is a difference between saying that no games should have a sub ever, which is what you claim, and saying that they will not pay a sub and will continue to play free games, which is what the reality is.
Here is a question for you, you are hard working person that makes good buck.
On the way to work you always grab a coffee.
There are two shops side by side:
- One is offering excellent coffee for free , and if you want a muffin you can buy it for a 1$
- Second one doesnt sell coffee or muffins. Instead you pay 30$ at start of the month and you get 1 cup of coffee and one muffin each day.
You do not eat muffin each day. And some days you prefer to drink coffee at work ( not to mention you dont work at weekends )
Which coffee shop do you choose ?
Let me correct this for you. You have two coffee shops
One shop has a membership plan which allows you to come in and have a cup of coffee and a muffin whenever you want you dont have to drink a coffee you dont have to eat the muffin you could have tea or perhaps a danish what ever you want you pay this one monthly fee and you have access to all the shop has on offer when ever you want.
The other shop has free coffee but you want a danish or a muffin or tea instead of coffee you have to pay for it what more. Because they give the coffee away for free and a lot of people only come for the free coffee you have to pay double the value for them to counter the costs of the free coffee. Now the coffee is free but comes in thin half size paper cups but for a set price you can but a strofoam cup or even a mug however these are only for the coffee. if you want your tea in a mug rather than a thin paper cup you need to pay extra again.
what people not realizing is there is no F2P, if you play it for free because some one else is paying double to cover the expenses of the game through in game shop, which make things greedy and devs focus on adding best stuff into game shop so people buy stuff.
that being said. it is also about community of so called F2P games, full of stupid kids, lifless nerds. retards, etc to extend that public grouping out of your guild sometimes becomes a pain in ass if you get one of those kind which is very likely to happen in F2P games.
Okay. It's still free for me. If others choose to pay a lot of money, that's their problem. And the community sucks in ALL games. The community sucks walking out your front door. It's no better or worse in a F2P game than it is in a P2P game.
what people not realizing is there is no F2P, if you play it for free because some one else is paying double to cover the expenses of the game through in game shop, which make things greedy and devs focus on adding best stuff into game shop so people buy stuff.
that being said. it is also about community of so called F2P games, full of stupid kids, lifless nerds. retards, etc to extend that public grouping out of your guild sometimes becomes a pain in ass if you get one of those kind which is very likely to happen in F2P games.
Okay. It's still free for me. If others choose to pay a lot of money, that's their problem. And the community sucks in ALL games. The community sucks walking out your front door. It's no better or worse in a F2P game than it is in a P2P game.
when the games were not free, the communities of FV in eq1, AB in eq2, and landroval in LOTRO were literally like playing with friends and family. I hope someone else watching this thread will back me up on this. even in wow, there are servers with close knit communities, and even now in eq2 where it's free/mium the community can get together to do great things (look closely at my sig for a reference to one of them)
and it's not their problem if they pay more, it's the problem of everyone who plays the gmae... even you. because the high spenders' dollars talk, and they will push development direction towards neat stuff for them (the high payers) and away from you (moderate to non payers).
even in a game where it's possible to trade item shoppe items for gold or what have you in-game, you're still paying the price by having to grind for however many ridiculous hours to obtain enough in game currency to grab one item shoppe item from the auction house; this makes the ingame economy suffer, etc etc
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
what people not realizing is there is no F2P, if you play it for free because some one else is paying double to cover the expenses of the game through in game shop, which make things greedy and devs focus on adding best stuff into game shop so people buy stuff.
that being said. it is also about community of so called F2P games, full of stupid kids, lifless nerds. retards, etc to extend that public grouping out of your guild sometimes becomes a pain in ass if you get one of those kind which is very likely to happen in F2P games.
Okay. It's still free for me. If others choose to pay a lot of money, that's their problem. And the community sucks in ALL games. The community sucks walking out your front door. It's no better or worse in a F2P game than it is in a P2P game.
when the games were not free, the communities of FV in eq1, AB in eq2, and landroval in LOTRO were literally like playing with friends and family. I hope someone else watching this thread will back me up on this. even in wow, there are servers with close knit communities, and even now in eq2 where it's free/mium the community can get together to do great things (look closely at my sig for a reference to one of them)
No, it has nothing to do with the pay model, it has to do with a fundamental change in both the gaming community and society as a whole. Back in the days of EQ and UO, games appealed to geeks and nerds, those were the only people who had access to high speed Internet and the computers powerful enough to run these games. Almost everyone on every server had things in common outside of the game, you couldn't join a group that couldn't quote Monty Python's Holy Grail verbatim from memory. That's why communities worked, everyone had something to talk about. After games went mainstream, we fragmented, it wasn't just one community, it was dozens or hundreds of communities that had nothing at all in common outside the game. People stopped talking and when people stopped talking, they stopped wanting to be social in the game and everyone started to solo. Add to that the fact that in the past 20 years, society in general has become more entitlement-happy and less social, it's no surprise that the games are exactly the same. People don't want to ask you for help, they think you owe it to them. It's no longer a request but a demand. These reasons are why communities suck, because people in general suck and there's no way to easily fix them unless you start running controlled servers that people have to pass a test on geek knowledge and lack of entitlement-desire to get access to. The genie is out of the bottle and there is no way you can ever put it back in.
Deal with the reality that actually is instead of the wishful thinking you wish was true.
and it's not their problem if they pay more, it's the problem of everyone who plays the gmae... even you. because the high spenders' dollars talk, and they will push development direction towards neat stuff for them (the high payers) and away from you (moderate to non payers).
But I don't care. I play the game that is offered to me. If I stop enjoying the game, I delete it and play something else. Or I just go do something else beside play games. The developers have a right to try to earn money and focus on the whales and I'm fine with that. I either like what they provide for free or I don't play.
even in a game where it's possible to trade item shoppe items for gold or what have you in-game, you're still paying the price by having to grind for however many ridiculous hours to obtain enough in game currency to grab one item shoppe item from the auction house; this makes the ingame economy suffer, etc etc
Every game out there has a grind, no matter what you get out of it. Every game you have to grind to get enough in-game money to buy the things you want or have them crafted or whatever. Some games, pretty much all of them at this point, offer people the ability to get around the grind by spending real-world cash. Nothing says you have to do it. You're welcome to grind for hours on end to achieve the same goals and if you don't like it and don't want to pay for it, you can just stop playing altogether.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Not really nariuss the reality is that we decide to play a game if it looks good, the payment model is irrelevant - I.e drip feeding through a cash shop or paying 1 month in advance (more than 1 month I personally never do unless I totally love a game and know I will play during that time)
It is not irrelevant because games have competition. If another game with the same amount of fun is free, why should i pay even a penny?
It is true that people have no right to demand a business type .. it is a free world, and the dev is free to do whatever with their product. But it is also true that as a consumer, i can choose not to pay for MMOs, just because i can get the same (or more) MMO fun for free.
when the games were not free, the communities of FV in eq1, AB in eq2, and landroval in LOTRO were literally like playing with friends and family. I hope someone else watching this thread will back me up on this. even in wow, there are servers with close knit communities, and even now in eq2 where it's free/mium the community can get together to do great things (look closely at my sig for a reference to one of them)
I don't play games for communities. When i want to play with friends & family ... i play with friends and family .. i don't play with people who "were literally like playing with friends and family."
And strangers are interchangeable. I can easily just quit if i don't like any of the one in my group. I see no reason to pay money to get a different group of strangers.
what people not realizing is there is no F2P, if you play it for free because some one else is paying double to cover the expenses of the game through in game shop, which make things greedy and devs focus on adding best stuff into game shop so people buy stuff.
that being said. it is also about community of so called F2P games, full of stupid kids, lifless nerds. retards, etc to extend that public grouping out of your guild sometimes becomes a pain in ass if you get one of those kind which is very likely to happen in F2P games.
Okay. It's still free for me. If others choose to pay a lot of money, that's their problem. And the community sucks in ALL games. The community sucks walking out your front door. It's no better or worse in a F2P game than it is in a P2P game.
when the games were not free, the communities of FV in eq1, AB in eq2, and landroval in LOTRO were literally like playing with friends and family. I hope someone else watching this thread will back me up on this. even in wow, there are servers with close knit communities, and even now in eq2 where it's free/mium the community can get together to do great things (look closely at my sig for a reference to one of them)
You're trying to say it's games going free that caused the downfall of the small community and not the massive influx of players that joined when the genre went mainstream. Any small community suffers the same effects when it's population explodes. It never really matters why.
Trying to pin the blame on just that one thing is doing the big no no in statistics correlation = causation.
Originally posted by parpinwhat people not realizing is there is no F2P, if you play it for free because some one else is paying double to cover the expenses of the game through in game shop, which make things greedy and devs focus on adding best stuff into game shop so people buy stuff.that being said. it is also about community of so called F2P games, full of stupid kids, lifless nerds. retards, etc to extend that public grouping out of your guild sometimes becomes a pain in ass if you get one of those kind which is very likely to happen in F2P games.
Okay. It's still free for me. If others choose to pay a lot of money, that's their problem. And the community sucks in ALL games. The community sucks walking out your front door. It's no better or worse in a F2P game than it is in a P2P game.
when the games were not free, the communities of FV in eq1, AB in eq2, and landroval in LOTRO were literally like playing with friends and family. I hope someone else watching this thread will back me up on this. even in wow, there are servers with close knit communities, and even now in eq2 where it's free/mium the community can get together to do great things (look closely at my sig for a reference to one of them)
You're trying to say it's games going free that caused the downfall of the small community and not the massive influx of players that joined when the genre went mainstream. Any small community suffers the same effects when it's population explodes. It never really matters why.
Trying to pin the blame on just that one thing is doing the big no no in statistics correlation = causation.
The "literally like playing with friends" is a false statement anyway.
No matter how good a time someone had you cannot escape this fact. The EQ devs implemented a play nice policy AFTER the game went live because people were not playing nice.
No matter what someone says or how they say it was, that fact alone shows that there were enough jerks that the devs had to implement a policy to curb it. It shows the playerbase was not the great sunshine and roses society people say it was.
They may have had a good guild, I know I did. But I have been in good guilds in Wow and Swtor as well. The playerbase itself IMO has not changed, just gotten bigger which means more jerks and nice people. Jerks are just louder.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Here is a question for you, you are hard working person that makes good buck.
On the way to work you always grab a coffee.
There are two shops side by side:
- One is offering excellent coffee for free , and if you want a muffin you can buy it for a 1$
- Second one doesnt sell coffee or muffins. Instead you pay 30$ at start of the month and you get 1 cup of coffee and one muffin each day.
You do not eat muffin each day. And some days you prefer to drink coffee at work ( not to mention you dont work at weekends )
Which coffee shop do you choose ?
Let me correct this for you. You have two coffee shops
One shop has a membership plan which allows you to come in and have a cup of coffee and a muffin whenever you want you dont have to drink a coffee you dont have to eat the muffin you could have tea or perhaps a danish what ever you want you pay this one monthly fee and you have access to all the shop has on offer when ever you want.
The other shop has free coffee but you want a danish or a muffin or tea instead of coffee you have to pay for it what more. Because they give the coffee away for free and a lot of people only come for the free coffee you have to pay double the value for them to counter the costs of the free coffee. Now the coffee is free but comes in thin half size paper cups but for a set price you can but a strofoam cup or even a mug however these are only for the coffee. if you want your tea in a mug rather than a thin paper cup you need to pay extra again.
Which coffee shop would YOU choose and why ?
The second. I'll bring my own mug.
Certainly that will be a $50 charge for bringing it in and we can hold it for you t a cost of $10 a day or you can pay the entrance fee for the cup each time you bring it in. If you are found with a unauthorized cup inside the shop we will automatically ban you from entry.
The "literally like playing with friends" is a false statement anyway.
No matter how good a time someone had you cannot escape this fact. The EQ devs implemented a play nice policy AFTER the game went live because people were not playing nice.
No matter what someone says or how they say it was, that fact alone shows that there were enough jerks that the devs had to implement a policy to curb it. It shows the playerbase was not the great sunshine and roses society people say it was.
They may have had a good guild, I know I did. But I have been in good guilds in Wow and Swtor as well. The playerbase itself IMO has not changed, just gotten bigger which means more jerks and nice people. Jerks are just louder.
Oh . EQ was horrible. The camping drama ... It is great now in modern MMO, you can choose to not to bother with strangers.
Here is a question for you, you are hard working person that makes good buck.
On the way to work you always grab a coffee.
There are two shops side by side:
- One is offering excellent coffee for free , and if you want a muffin you can buy it for a 1$
- Second one doesnt sell coffee or muffins. Instead you pay 30$ at start of the month and you get 1 cup of coffee and one muffin each day.
You do not eat muffin each day. And some days you prefer to drink coffee at work ( not to mention you dont work at weekends )
Which coffee shop do you choose ?
Let me correct this for you. You have two coffee shops
One shop has a membership plan which allows you to come in and have a cup of coffee and a muffin whenever you want you dont have to drink a coffee you dont have to eat the muffin you could have tea or perhaps a danish what ever you want you pay this one monthly fee and you have access to all the shop has on offer when ever you want.
The other shop has free coffee but you want a danish or a muffin or tea instead of coffee you have to pay for it what more. Because they give the coffee away for free and a lot of people only come for the free coffee you have to pay double the value for them to counter the costs of the free coffee. Now the coffee is free but comes in thin half size paper cups but for a set price you can but a strofoam cup or even a mug however these are only for the coffee. if you want your tea in a mug rather than a thin paper cup you need to pay extra again.
Which coffee shop would YOU choose and why ?
The second. I'll bring my own mug.
Certainly that will be a $50 charge for bringing it in and we can hold it for you t a cost of $10 a day or you can pay the entrance fee for the cup each time you bring it in. If you are found with a unauthorized cup inside the shop we will automatically ban you from entry.
First of all, your analogy sucks ass. I go to a coffee shop to buy coffee. If the coffee is free and the muffins and.or other random crap that fat people love are very overpriced, I would just get the coffee.
About your second comment, just making up random stuff to counter what people reply to you doesn't make your analogy any better.
Other games don't charge sub. Why should MMOs charge subs? Last time I played Dota (which also took time to develop and has maintenance costs), I didn't have to pay a single cent to enjoy the game to the fullest. Compare MMOs to other games. That's a better analogy. Why does an MMO deserve a sub but multiplayer games don't? I am not saying you shouldn't buy a game and it's expansions/DLCs. I am saying that subs are asking too much. Regular AAA game releases charge you $60 for the game and $40 or so for expansions, $10-15 for DLCs. Why should MMOs charge a sub on top of that?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
And interestingly, the games that have been released "lately" have been mostly F2P.
You make me like charity
As a test, have a look for people that say a game is amazing, but won't play as its a sub.
Now look at those that complain + say a game is rubbish- jackpot.
Worse are fools that delude themselves by saying a game is rubbish but they would play if it's free. Really? Paying wont make it more fun, and having people in game that hate a game - poisonous.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
1. Do I like the game?
2. Ask I willing to pay what it costs?
That's it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
That's my same thought process when deciding to buy candy. Its no more complicated than this really. looking into it any further would be as pointless and moronic as arguing on the internet.
First off, you have no right to tell people what they should and should not do. That's none of your damn business. Secondly, there is a difference between saying that no games should have a sub ever, which is what you claim, and saying that they will not pay a sub and will continue to play free games, which is what the reality is.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
The second. I'll bring my own mug.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Okay. It's still free for me. If others choose to pay a lot of money, that's their problem. And the community sucks in ALL games. The community sucks walking out your front door. It's no better or worse in a F2P game than it is in a P2P game.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
when the games were not free, the communities of FV in eq1, AB in eq2, and landroval in LOTRO were literally like playing with friends and family. I hope someone else watching this thread will back me up on this. even in wow, there are servers with close knit communities, and even now in eq2 where it's free/mium the community can get together to do great things (look closely at my sig for a reference to one of them)
and it's not their problem if they pay more, it's the problem of everyone who plays the gmae... even you. because the high spenders' dollars talk, and they will push development direction towards neat stuff for them (the high payers) and away from you (moderate to non payers).
even in a game where it's possible to trade item shoppe items for gold or what have you in-game, you're still paying the price by having to grind for however many ridiculous hours to obtain enough in game currency to grab one item shoppe item from the auction house; this makes the ingame economy suffer, etc etc
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
No, it has nothing to do with the pay model, it has to do with a fundamental change in both the gaming community and society as a whole. Back in the days of EQ and UO, games appealed to geeks and nerds, those were the only people who had access to high speed Internet and the computers powerful enough to run these games. Almost everyone on every server had things in common outside of the game, you couldn't join a group that couldn't quote Monty Python's Holy Grail verbatim from memory. That's why communities worked, everyone had something to talk about. After games went mainstream, we fragmented, it wasn't just one community, it was dozens or hundreds of communities that had nothing at all in common outside the game. People stopped talking and when people stopped talking, they stopped wanting to be social in the game and everyone started to solo. Add to that the fact that in the past 20 years, society in general has become more entitlement-happy and less social, it's no surprise that the games are exactly the same. People don't want to ask you for help, they think you owe it to them. It's no longer a request but a demand. These reasons are why communities suck, because people in general suck and there's no way to easily fix them unless you start running controlled servers that people have to pass a test on geek knowledge and lack of entitlement-desire to get access to. The genie is out of the bottle and there is no way you can ever put it back in.
Deal with the reality that actually is instead of the wishful thinking you wish was true.
But I don't care. I play the game that is offered to me. If I stop enjoying the game, I delete it and play something else. Or I just go do something else beside play games. The developers have a right to try to earn money and focus on the whales and I'm fine with that. I either like what they provide for free or I don't play.
Every game out there has a grind, no matter what you get out of it. Every game you have to grind to get enough in-game money to buy the things you want or have them crafted or whatever. Some games, pretty much all of them at this point, offer people the ability to get around the grind by spending real-world cash. Nothing says you have to do it. You're welcome to grind for hours on end to achieve the same goals and if you don't like it and don't want to pay for it, you can just stop playing altogether.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
It is not irrelevant because games have competition. If another game with the same amount of fun is free, why should i pay even a penny?
It is true that people have no right to demand a business type .. it is a free world, and the dev is free to do whatever with their product. But it is also true that as a consumer, i can choose not to pay for MMOs, just because i can get the same (or more) MMO fun for free.
I don't play games for communities. When i want to play with friends & family ... i play with friends and family .. i don't play with people who "were literally like playing with friends and family."
And strangers are interchangeable. I can easily just quit if i don't like any of the one in my group. I see no reason to pay money to get a different group of strangers.
You're trying to say it's games going free that caused the downfall of the small community and not the massive influx of players that joined when the genre went mainstream. Any small community suffers the same effects when it's population explodes. It never really matters why.
Trying to pin the blame on just that one thing is doing the big no no in statistics correlation = causation.
The "literally like playing with friends" is a false statement anyway.
No matter how good a time someone had you cannot escape this fact. The EQ devs implemented a play nice policy AFTER the game went live because people were not playing nice.
No matter what someone says or how they say it was, that fact alone shows that there were enough jerks that the devs had to implement a policy to curb it. It shows the playerbase was not the great sunshine and roses society people say it was.
They may have had a good guild, I know I did. But I have been in good guilds in Wow and Swtor as well. The playerbase itself IMO has not changed, just gotten bigger which means more jerks and nice people. Jerks are just louder.
Certainly that will be a $50 charge for bringing it in and we can hold it for you t a cost of $10 a day or you can pay the entrance fee for the cup each time you bring it in. If you are found with a unauthorized cup inside the shop we will automatically ban you from entry.
Oh . EQ was horrible. The camping drama ... It is great now in modern MMO, you can choose to not to bother with strangers.
First of all, your analogy sucks ass. I go to a coffee shop to buy coffee. If the coffee is free and the muffins and.or other random crap that fat people love are very overpriced, I would just get the coffee.
About your second comment, just making up random stuff to counter what people reply to you doesn't make your analogy any better.
Other games don't charge sub. Why should MMOs charge subs? Last time I played Dota (which also took time to develop and has maintenance costs), I didn't have to pay a single cent to enjoy the game to the fullest. Compare MMOs to other games. That's a better analogy. Why does an MMO deserve a sub but multiplayer games don't? I am not saying you shouldn't buy a game and it's expansions/DLCs. I am saying that subs are asking too much. Regular AAA game releases charge you $60 for the game and $40 or so for expansions, $10-15 for DLCs. Why should MMOs charge a sub on top of that?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.