Horrible class balance combined with the VR system did me in. I want to make an alt of a class that doesn't suck, but I would have to slog through 300 hours of content I didn't think was amazing the first time though, I'll pass on that.
v10 long time ago here. I just canceled my subsription because Im rly tired of crap and bugged v5-v10 dungeond and "coming soon" Craglorn is definetly not soon enough for me. Still got 21 days to play if they dont add raids before that I will not waiting any more. Lvling and dungeons was fun, but bugs should be fixed much faster and content delivered faster too. I hate ESO suport it feels total ctc-c ctr-v crap, dont have single issue resolved.
Drakshade caverns with many bugs its good example of thing that should be repaired ASAP but stil its bad and unplayeble.
But whay bothers, dungeons items and revards are joke, no real mnotivation to continue playing if you are rank 5 undauted guild.
I resubbed for another month but I will cancel after that. I actually enjoy the game quite a bit and they have a done a good job of cleaning up the bugs since launch. I'm just having more fun in SWToR right now and can't find the time for two games. I will resub after the summer or maybe over the holidays and give it a good 6 month run.
Got multiple toons to lvl 12, but got 1 toon to 25. I am not resubbing at the moment. Gonna wait a bit for the game to get a few patches in. I had high hopes, but the game is too solo-player centered. I am apart of a great guild, We have TS and we communicate alot. It was fun running through an area doing dungeons and the world bosses. Wuld've loved it if we could have our guild name under our character names but that's not gonna happen anytime soon. I hated how you couldn't help someone in a difficult quest chain due to the instancing. it sucked telling someone who was frustrated to just grin and bare it, because the game forces you to do it solo. NG+ in an mmo is retarded, to get to VR10 you essentially just leveled your toon twice. I really wished there was a real pvp questing zone. maybe its the size of cyro but i never got the feel of that small pvp stress situation because factions just used the zerg mentality. It came to the point I just entered cyro to redo my buffs cause they would glitch out lol. It did some things great, and I was a massive supporter of it, . I don't regret my purchase because It was fun and I know i'll be back...when its fixed.
I have cancelled since this is the Worst MMO I have played in ten years...regardless of how much I love Elder Scroll Games...PvP is pretty much useless. Zenimax seems more interested in taking money than fixing basic game mechanics. 150$ down the drain at this point!
Before you think about it go to the forums that they outsource, even though this outside company they can ban you in game for disagreeing with them over in forums...but since they aren't part of the company they can't offer any help!
too much of a single player experience....i like group games not single player games.
Good luck in finding that type of mmorpg in todays standards, welcome to the era of console gaming and instant gratification. The days of getting a group to accomplish goals is over, no one has patience for that anymore.
ArcheAge.
... assuming it can survive contact with the 'Western Mindset'.
Don't get me wrong, I'm right there with JR4D. I'd love a MMORPG that truly places value and meaning on grouping up, cooperation, coordination, communication... real community, not just "your circle of friends and/or people in your guild". I'd love to see even a smidgen of hope that there's life beyond the candy-coated crap this Genre has been churning out, for almost the last decade.
However, over here in the 'West', gamers have become reliant on "racing to level cap - all solo - then grinding through end-game by standing in town, queued up to PUG their 20th instance of the day." Oh, they'll bitch about how boring that is... Yet, when they don't get that, they throw tantrums, demanding the devs make it more like the last 10 MMOs they burned through and got bored of... Because that's "how a modern MMO is supposed to be", after all.
Excuse my cynicism, but until there's a sea change in how people approach MMOs, and what they expect out of them... and they start demanding something more (a lot more) than "race to end-game in a week so they can spend the next several months queued up for instances, to grind for the current "best gear" on the never ending vertical progression treadmill".... and until MMO developers see there actually is enough of a demand to sustain a healthy MMO population (and that you don't need to try for "WoW-like numbers" to be successful)... it's never going to change. Pervasive hand-holding, instant gratification and being rewarded just for showing up will continue to be the norm.
Maybe Archeage will buck this trend. I have no idea. I know Trion is making changes to it for the Western market, and I'm sure their PR is making the changes look as good as they can. But again... we'll see how it holds up once it's released to the unmovable force that is the self-entitled "Me Me Me Now Now Now" mentality of a typical Western gamer. If they can resist the waves of whine once they start crashing in, then Archeage just might be what many have hoped for - assuming it does what it promises well.
Don't worry, in a few months you all can move onto saying how amazing ArchAge is just to turn around a month later and say how they mislead you and now the game sucks.
Sorry your predictions for Sw:ToR were so terribly wrong, but you shouldn't take it out on another game.
Originally posted by Horusra Archage tries to force your "community" through pvp...how many want that?
Perfect example of what I'm talking about.
If your view of community in a PvP MMO is that it "has to be forced on you", then that says more about you than it does about the game. Many, many, many people in other PvP MMOs don't have that problem.
In my experience, a solid, well-implemented PvP system that (and this is an important part) gives players the space to police themselves and establish their own "rules of conduct", can foster some of the strongest communities you'll ever see.
For example, Lineage 2 back in its Chronicles and Interlude period had one of the strongest online communities I've seen in any MMO, ever. PvE or otherwise. And that was all player-driven. L2's GMs did very little to interfere with any in-game conflicts or behavior, unless it crossed the line into personal harassment, slander, racism, sexism, etc. This stance of non-involvement led to the players taking matters into their own hands.
Prime example... In L2, when the veterans saw how new players were being chased off and out of the game by gankers/griefers who had nothing better to do, they got involved and started dealing with them personally. They asked new players to let them know where and when they were being harassed, and by whom. They would go out there and chase the griefer off (which usually required merely showing up). They'd then take some time to get the new player more into the game - show them around, give them advice and help give them a much more positive experience, so they'd stick around. And those people did stick around, and the game's population was better for it.
I speak to that from personal experience, because it's exactly what happened with me. I was at wits' end and ready to say "screw this" because a few people would not let me play the game and get anything done. A vet came and helped me out.. and I went on to play L2 for the next 5 years, and loved it. In turn, I paid it forward by helping other new players out in similar fashion.
That's just one example of how the players came together to look after their own and form a strong community.... in a pure open PvP environment. Of course, the MMO community at that time was also a lot more mature for the most part... so there's that.
The trick is, again, the developers have to stay out of the way enough to let the players do this. People have little concern for "bucking the rules established by the devs", because "the devs" are a faceless entity. When it's your own fellow players - your peers - actively enforcing those rules, people tend to take it more seriously.
Canceled before 30 days was up. It was ok for a month's worth but lacking in several departments compared with wildstar and archeagey. So many buggies and horrid design overall except for the musac and not worth 15 tacos/mo, will be playing itchy and scratchy mmo
There are no real rules cause in pvp there is no real penalties. Put in permadeath and then we can talk. Otherwise you are stuck with the same...you community against everyone else...not much different than the current games community of just your guild.
Though I was thinking to keep subbed after the 60-day pre-paid time card would be over (local direct debit for my bank was added later on), I'm not going to. Right now I'm playing ArcheAge and that's definately my new home. I can't even start to compare AA and ESO, but all I can say is that ESO is extremely boring for me when I look at how much fun I have in AA!
Originally posted by Horusra There are no real rules cause in pvp there is no real penalties. Put in permadeath and then we can talk. Otherwise you are stuck with the same...you community against everyone else...not much different than the current games community of just your guild.
Well, then you implement penalties with enough bite to make it meaningful. Permadeath is on the extreme end and, really, not necessary.
A nice chunk of xp loss, or the ability to otherwise not progress until some kind of weakness is worn off does wonders.
It needs only be enough to make people play more wisely and choose their fights more carefully.
Again, referring to L2...
In L2, for dying you lose xp and/or a level. It was/is a very effective way to encourage less reckless behavior, better preparation and more thoughtful target selection.
However, then there's the rules established by the players...
I was ganked less in about 5 years of playing L2 than I was in a single month playing WoW on a PvP server. No, I'm not kidding or exaggerating.
Reason for that?
Accountability and repercussions for player actions.
In WoW, there is zero player accountability for attacking an enemy. You just pk the person and then race off to the safety of your faction territory if things start getting too hot. No one's going to go running all over enemy territory just to get back at a single player. They may come after you if they see you again, but beyond that... you're in the clear. So, no repercussions, no direct consequence to their actions and the ability to make a clean getaway and avoid any reaction gave people the green light to just go after anyone they wanted to. Even clearing out towns of all their NPCs, etc. "Darkshire", "Westfall flight path" and "Crossroads" immediately spring to memory as popular targets...
In Lineage 2, there are no pre-decided factions. There is no "friendly territory". It's all player-driven. Your actions have direct consequence and you are held accountable for it. I can't even count the number of times a situation like the following would arise:
A player is out xp'ing or doing whatever, perhaps alone, perhaps with another player or two. Someone comes along and decides to gank them. No real reason. Just for the "lulz". Next thing you know, other members of that player's clan and/or alliance show up, ready to take on the ganker(s). One of two things happens... PvP, or the gankers running away.
As follow-up, your clan leader gets the name of the ganker(s) and what clan they're in. They contact a leader of that clan and notify them that the player(s) who attacked you is/are now KOS. They advise that - so long as none of their clan-mates get in the middle - it will remain just that one player. However, if anyone else from the clan interferes, then the entire clan is KOS. That's a player stating conditions to another player. Not the game dictating what actions can be taken.
The response to that tended to go one of three ways:
1. The leader of the ganker's clan says "screw you... we stand by our clan-mates. Bring it on", and a full on clan war is declared.
2. The ganker's clan leader(s) tell the ganker(s) to knock it off, and advises everyone else to stay out of it, with penalty of being kicked from the clan if they don't.
3. The ganker's leader doesn't even want to risk it and outright kicks the ganker from the clan to fend for themself... this has happened a lot. I've literally seen 3 people trying to repeatedly gank a group and myself have their clan tags disappear right in the midst of the encounter... because they were told to back off, didn't, and their clan leaders didn't want the headache of having a powerful clan/alliance (which I was in at the time) hunting them down. We got a PM from the clan's leader saying "They're kicked. No longer our problem. Have fun." Was fun quoting that back to them .
Then there's the other end of the spectrum...
You'd get individual players who either had no clan ('cause none would take or keep them), or a small one of just themselves and a couple others. They'd go around - by themselves - and just PK players indiscriminately. They had no allies. They just had a knack for knowing where to go and when to attack, and how to get away.. and folks could never seem to find them unless they were in a city (where they couldn't be attacked). They didn't go after lowbie areas, they actually went for players closer to their own level. The inevitability of being caught and dropped had no effect on them. They don't care. Wish I could remember the name of one person in particular, but he was a thorn in the side of literally every clan on my server for a while (Gustin). No one could stand him and he screwed with everyone.
So, your notion of it "only being your guild against everyone else" is certainly part of the situation (not sure how that's a bad thing, though, when core mechanics of the game centered around clan wars, clan control of a castle/territory/fortress, etc)... but it's not the limit of what can happen. Individual players absolutely can, and have made a name for themselves, while acting completely alone.
Really, the people who insist that nothing good could ever come of community or player interaction in an open PvP MMO have never actually experienced it and are speaking purely out of ignorance... or their own bias against it.
Anyway... lol... this is a thread about ESO and so I'm not going to keep talking about other games.. but I just wanted to get those points out there, because it's a common misconception with MMO gamers who have this immediate fear of having any sort of open PvP in a game. It *can* be a very good thing.. if it's done right.
I canceled end of story. Take you pick, can solo to 50, to many bugs, broken story quest line on the way to 50 and got stuck. Tickets left unanswered. It was good for a diversion for a month but not worth the sub price. That is just me and the reasons why I just decided it was a no go.
No, he's part of the large majority of players who didn't have crippling bugs. Because the cases in the early game where the problems truly were substantial had enormously long threads, and the difference between "happens to everyone" and "is rare" is really, really obvious in game and on the boards. And, more to the point, the quests have been substantially tightened up, mostly to prevent the occasional unpredictable glitch.
The propanganda campaign against this game has been so comprehensive that the normal experience of players is dismissed as unusual. It's utterly pathological.
The propanganda campaign against this game has been so comprehensive that the normal experience of players is dismissed as unusual. It's utterly pathological.
Sounds a lot like the propaganda campaign in favor of the game too!
I subbed and plan on playing for a long time. I did not experience any of the reported game breaking bugs...I must be lucky.
You must be the special one in hole ESO with no issues.
Nope. I have not had a single quest that I couldn't complete in a few days if it was bugged and then there have only been 2 in total that I had to come back to.
I've seen a lot of straight exaggerations on these forums and outright lies about ESO. My favorite was a guy was complaining that the horses were too slow and the bag space is too limited. I guess it was too hard to feed his horse every 20 hours or buy bag space, or maybe too much trouble to not have an add-on telling him what to do.
It's totally cool to not like ESO, no game is for everyone, but to lie or stretch the truth is childish at best.
I'm not saying that's you masterdtox, it's just a general observation because there have been legit issues for folks, just not everyone and I'm sure those issues are harder to track down and fix. Then a gain, if companies and players used betas for what they are truly meant for and not as a cash grab or head start, then maybe some of these issues would have been fixed before launch.
Nope. I have not had a single quest that I couldn't complete in a few days if it was bugged and then there have only been 2 in total that I had to come back to.
I've seen a lot of straight exaggerations on these forums and outright lies about ESO. My favorite was a guy was complaining that the horses were too slow and the bag space is too limited. I guess it was too hard to feed his horse every 20 hours or buy bag space, or maybe too much trouble to not have an add-on telling him what to do.
It's totally cool to not like ESO, no game is for everyone, but to lie or stretch the truth is childish at best.
I'm not saying that's you masterdtox, it's just a general observation because there have been legit issues for folks, just not everyone and I'm sure those issues are harder to track down and fix. Then a gain, if companies and players used betas for what they are truly meant for and not as a cash grab or head start, then maybe some of these issues would have been fixed before launch.
The problem is not the beta testers but the fact that every single MMOs idea to use beta space for selling copies means that people assumes that playing a beta is for fun instead of for fixing up the game.
You don't actually have to pay beta testers as some of the old games did but you at least needs to announce it as a task for fixing bugs and stop charging for it. This however go for most MMOs today and not just eso.
As for some people complaining a lot about bugs while others say they have very few that isn't really anything strange. For some reason do both side assumes that someone who have a different experience is just lying but the fact is that a lot of it is about different hardware, OS and drivers. It is extremely hard to get a game working perfectly for every hardware piece there is so some get huge problems with memory loss, bad performance and get kicked out of the game on a regular basis while others have very few issues (mostly the broken quests).
And yeah, some people whine over pointless things as well. Mounts speed is pointless but the price for them could be discussed.
What confuses me though is the people who both love to have an MMO from launch and hate bugs, if they just waited 3 months the experience would be rather different. Either wait a while with buying a game or live with some bugs. Of course, ESO did release too early but so do almost every MMO.
Comments
The Enlightened take things Lightly
v10 long time ago here. I just canceled my subsription because Im rly tired of crap and bugged v5-v10 dungeond and "coming soon" Craglorn is definetly not soon enough for me. Still got 21 days to play if they dont add raids before that I will not waiting any more. Lvling and dungeons was fun, but bugs should be fixed much faster and content delivered faster too. I hate ESO suport it feels total ctc-c ctr-v crap, dont have single issue resolved.
Drakshade caverns with many bugs its good example of thing that should be repaired ASAP but stil its bad and unplayeble.
But whay bothers, dungeons items and revards are joke, no real mnotivation to continue playing if you are rank 5 undauted guild.
Taking the game slow and easy, i did resub at lvl 27.
Enjoying the game so Far, i found new community to be with and it feels good to do that in an MMO at last.
Really? Having keeps and 3 factions is enough to make it DAoC 2 for you? Even if everything else is completely different?
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
I have cancelled since this is the Worst MMO I have played in ten years...regardless of how much I love Elder Scroll Games...PvP is pretty much useless. Zenimax seems more interested in taking money than fixing basic game mechanics. 150$ down the drain at this point!
Before you think about it go to the forums that they outsource, even though this outside company they can ban you in game for disagreeing with them over in forums...but since they aren't part of the company they can't offer any help!
... assuming it can survive contact with the 'Western Mindset'.
Don't get me wrong, I'm right there with JR4D. I'd love a MMORPG that truly places value and meaning on grouping up, cooperation, coordination, communication... real community, not just "your circle of friends and/or people in your guild". I'd love to see even a smidgen of hope that there's life beyond the candy-coated crap this Genre has been churning out, for almost the last decade.
However, over here in the 'West', gamers have become reliant on "racing to level cap - all solo - then grinding through end-game by standing in town, queued up to PUG their 20th instance of the day." Oh, they'll bitch about how boring that is... Yet, when they don't get that, they throw tantrums, demanding the devs make it more like the last 10 MMOs they burned through and got bored of... Because that's "how a modern MMO is supposed to be", after all.
Excuse my cynicism, but until there's a sea change in how people approach MMOs, and what they expect out of them... and they start demanding something more (a lot more) than "race to end-game in a week so they can spend the next several months queued up for instances, to grind for the current "best gear" on the never ending vertical progression treadmill".... and until MMO developers see there actually is enough of a demand to sustain a healthy MMO population (and that you don't need to try for "WoW-like numbers" to be successful)... it's never going to change. Pervasive hand-holding, instant gratification and being rewarded just for showing up will continue to be the norm.
Maybe Archeage will buck this trend. I have no idea. I know Trion is making changes to it for the Western market, and I'm sure their PR is making the changes look as good as they can. But again... we'll see how it holds up once it's released to the unmovable force that is the self-entitled "Me Me Me Now Now Now" mentality of a typical Western gamer. If they can resist the waves of whine once they start crashing in, then Archeage just might be what many have hoped for - assuming it does what it promises well.
Don't worry, in a few months you all can move onto saying how amazing ArchAge is just to turn around a month later and say how they mislead you and now the game sucks.
Sorry your predictions for Sw:ToR were so terribly wrong, but you shouldn't take it out on another game.
Perfect example of what I'm talking about.
If your view of community in a PvP MMO is that it "has to be forced on you", then that says more about you than it does about the game. Many, many, many people in other PvP MMOs don't have that problem.
In my experience, a solid, well-implemented PvP system that (and this is an important part) gives players the space to police themselves and establish their own "rules of conduct", can foster some of the strongest communities you'll ever see.
For example, Lineage 2 back in its Chronicles and Interlude period had one of the strongest online communities I've seen in any MMO, ever. PvE or otherwise. And that was all player-driven. L2's GMs did very little to interfere with any in-game conflicts or behavior, unless it crossed the line into personal harassment, slander, racism, sexism, etc. This stance of non-involvement led to the players taking matters into their own hands.
Prime example... In L2, when the veterans saw how new players were being chased off and out of the game by gankers/griefers who had nothing better to do, they got involved and started dealing with them personally. They asked new players to let them know where and when they were being harassed, and by whom. They would go out there and chase the griefer off (which usually required merely showing up). They'd then take some time to get the new player more into the game - show them around, give them advice and help give them a much more positive experience, so they'd stick around. And those people did stick around, and the game's population was better for it.
I speak to that from personal experience, because it's exactly what happened with me. I was at wits' end and ready to say "screw this" because a few people would not let me play the game and get anything done. A vet came and helped me out.. and I went on to play L2 for the next 5 years, and loved it. In turn, I paid it forward by helping other new players out in similar fashion.
That's just one example of how the players came together to look after their own and form a strong community.... in a pure open PvP environment. Of course, the MMO community at that time was also a lot more mature for the most part... so there's that.
The trick is, again, the developers have to stay out of the way enough to let the players do this. People have little concern for "bucking the rules established by the devs", because "the devs" are a faceless entity. When it's your own fellow players - your peers - actively enforcing those rules, people tend to take it more seriously.
Canceled before 30 days was up. It was ok for a month's worth but lacking in several departments compared with wildstar and archeagey. So many buggies and horrid design overall except for the musac and not worth 15 tacos/mo, will be playing itchy and scratchy mmo
/VR10
Ryoshi1 as Rikimaru
Well, then you implement penalties with enough bite to make it meaningful. Permadeath is on the extreme end and, really, not necessary.
A nice chunk of xp loss, or the ability to otherwise not progress until some kind of weakness is worn off does wonders.
It needs only be enough to make people play more wisely and choose their fights more carefully.
Again, referring to L2...
In L2, for dying you lose xp and/or a level. It was/is a very effective way to encourage less reckless behavior, better preparation and more thoughtful target selection.
However, then there's the rules established by the players...I was ganked less in about 5 years of playing L2 than I was in a single month playing WoW on a PvP server. No, I'm not kidding or exaggerating.
Reason for that?
Accountability and repercussions for player actions.
In WoW, there is zero player accountability for attacking an enemy. You just pk the person and then race off to the safety of your faction territory if things start getting too hot. No one's going to go running all over enemy territory just to get back at a single player. They may come after you if they see you again, but beyond that... you're in the clear. So, no repercussions, no direct consequence to their actions and the ability to make a clean getaway and avoid any reaction gave people the green light to just go after anyone they wanted to. Even clearing out towns of all their NPCs, etc. "Darkshire", "Westfall flight path" and "Crossroads" immediately spring to memory as popular targets...
In Lineage 2, there are no pre-decided factions. There is no "friendly territory". It's all player-driven. Your actions have direct consequence and you are held accountable for it. I can't even count the number of times a situation like the following would arise:
A player is out xp'ing or doing whatever, perhaps alone, perhaps with another player or two. Someone comes along and decides to gank them. No real reason. Just for the "lulz". Next thing you know, other members of that player's clan and/or alliance show up, ready to take on the ganker(s). One of two things happens... PvP, or the gankers running away.
As follow-up, your clan leader gets the name of the ganker(s) and what clan they're in. They contact a leader of that clan and notify them that the player(s) who attacked you is/are now KOS. They advise that - so long as none of their clan-mates get in the middle - it will remain just that one player. However, if anyone else from the clan interferes, then the entire clan is KOS. That's a player stating conditions to another player. Not the game dictating what actions can be taken.
The response to that tended to go one of three ways:
1. The leader of the ganker's clan says "screw you... we stand by our clan-mates. Bring it on", and a full on clan war is declared.
2. The ganker's clan leader(s) tell the ganker(s) to knock it off, and advises everyone else to stay out of it, with penalty of being kicked from the clan if they don't.
3. The ganker's leader doesn't even want to risk it and outright kicks the ganker from the clan to fend for themself... this has happened a lot. I've literally seen 3 people trying to repeatedly gank a group and myself have their clan tags disappear right in the midst of the encounter... because they were told to back off, didn't, and their clan leaders didn't want the headache of having a powerful clan/alliance (which I was in at the time) hunting them down. We got a PM from the clan's leader saying "They're kicked. No longer our problem. Have fun." Was fun quoting that back to them
.
Then there's the other end of the spectrum...
You'd get individual players who either had no clan ('cause none would take or keep them), or a small one of just themselves and a couple others. They'd go around - by themselves - and just PK players indiscriminately. They had no allies. They just had a knack for knowing where to go and when to attack, and how to get away.. and folks could never seem to find them unless they were in a city (where they couldn't be attacked). They didn't go after lowbie areas, they actually went for players closer to their own level. The inevitability of being caught and dropped had no effect on them. They don't care. Wish I could remember the name of one person in particular, but he was a thorn in the side of literally every clan on my server for a while (Gustin). No one could stand him and he screwed with everyone.
So, your notion of it "only being your guild against everyone else" is certainly part of the situation (not sure how that's a bad thing, though, when core mechanics of the game centered around clan wars, clan control of a castle/territory/fortress, etc)... but it's not the limit of what can happen. Individual players absolutely can, and have made a name for themselves, while acting completely alone.
Really, the people who insist that nothing good could ever come of community or player interaction in an open PvP MMO have never actually experienced it and are speaking purely out of ignorance... or their own bias against it.
Anyway... lol... this is a thread about ESO and so I'm not going to keep talking about other games.. but I just wanted to get those points out there, because it's a common misconception with MMO gamers who have this immediate fear of having any sort of open PvP in a game. It *can* be a very good thing.. if it's done right.
I subbed and plan on playing for a long time. I did not experience any of the reported game breaking bugs...I must be lucky.
You must be the special one in hole ESO with no issues.
No, he's part of the large majority of players who didn't have crippling bugs. Because the cases in the early game where the problems truly were substantial had enormously long threads, and the difference between "happens to everyone" and "is rare" is really, really obvious in game and on the boards. And, more to the point, the quests have been substantially tightened up, mostly to prevent the occasional unpredictable glitch.
The propanganda campaign against this game has been so comprehensive that the normal experience of players is dismissed as unusual. It's utterly pathological.
Sounds a lot like the propaganda campaign in favor of the game too!
Nope. I have not had a single quest that I couldn't complete in a few days if it was bugged and then there have only been 2 in total that I had to come back to.
I've seen a lot of straight exaggerations on these forums and outright lies about ESO. My favorite was a guy was complaining that the horses were too slow and the bag space is too limited. I guess it was too hard to feed his horse every 20 hours or buy bag space, or maybe too much trouble to not have an add-on telling him what to do.
It's totally cool to not like ESO, no game is for everyone, but to lie or stretch the truth is childish at best.
I'm not saying that's you masterdtox, it's just a general observation because there have been legit issues for folks, just not everyone and I'm sure those issues are harder to track down and fix. Then a gain, if companies and players used betas for what they are truly meant for and not as a cash grab or head start, then maybe some of these issues would have been fixed before launch.
The problem is not the beta testers but the fact that every single MMOs idea to use beta space for selling copies means that people assumes that playing a beta is for fun instead of for fixing up the game.
You don't actually have to pay beta testers as some of the old games did but you at least needs to announce it as a task for fixing bugs and stop charging for it. This however go for most MMOs today and not just eso.
As for some people complaining a lot about bugs while others say they have very few that isn't really anything strange. For some reason do both side assumes that someone who have a different experience is just lying but the fact is that a lot of it is about different hardware, OS and drivers. It is extremely hard to get a game working perfectly for every hardware piece there is so some get huge problems with memory loss, bad performance and get kicked out of the game on a regular basis while others have very few issues (mostly the broken quests).
And yeah, some people whine over pointless things as well. Mounts speed is pointless but the price for them could be discussed.
What confuses me though is the people who both love to have an MMO from launch and hate bugs, if they just waited 3 months the experience would be rather different. Either wait a while with buying a game or live with some bugs. Of course, ESO did release too early but so do almost every MMO.