finally MMOs are better games than world sims, and no need to depend on others to have fun. And no longer one needs to be stuck with one game for more than a few weeks.
Is this sarcasm? You play a massive multiplayer game, in order to not interact with others? You invest time in a MMO, to play for no longer than a few weeks? How is any of that better as far as a MMORPG goes? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but a great side-scroller action game sounds more up your alley.
I do have to agree here, but only to an extent. What I've stated before and will state yet again is that I think there's room for everyone and everything nowadays, but the problem is that when ONE gameplay model became popular (ie: action combat for example), most other games started leaning that way. Now there are plenty of different action combat MMO's to choose from, but they've completely forgotten about the people who want to spend hours doing menial tasks or just /sitting in a cantina for hours.
This is not Highlander, people. There can be more than one.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert 'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I stopped playing them.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
And I continuously see people complain about end game, what version of end game are we going with? The incredibly boring sounding one where you mindlessly kill raid bosses or do heroic dungeons until you get to need/greed a rare drop to increase your stats ever so slightly?
End game is just another way of saying "Pointless grinding to keep me playing until they release more content."
Mega servers aren't really an issue either if you can coordinate where you go with your friends/guild.
As for them being easy and often unfinished, yeah I'd agree. But then if you make them too hard you alienate a large portion of the community that doesn't have the time to coordinate an hour in advance on sophisticated tactics to kill each and every boss in the planned dungeon run. The unfinished side though is problematic but more often than not a result of producers pushing developers to release instead of having more time for polish.
And I continuously see people complain about end game, what version of end game are we going with? The incredibly boring sounding one where you mindlessly kill raid bosses or do heroic dungeons until you get to need/greed a rare drop to increase your stats ever so slightly?
End game is just another way of saying "Pointless grinding to keep me playing until they release more content."
Mega servers aren't really an issue either if you can coordinate where you go with your friends/guild.
As for them being easy and often unfinished, yeah I'd agree. But then if you make them too hard you alienate a large portion of the community that doesn't have the time to coordinate an hour in advance on sophisticated tactics to kill each and every boss in the planned dungeon run. The unfinished side though is problematic but more often than not a result of producers pushing developers to release instead of having more time for polish.
I actually also like dynamic events, and they made me far more sociable, more likely not just to play with others, but to chit chat with others.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I agree with OP. But, don't blame games, blame "gamers". It seems that MMO(RPG) games are only genre where real players and gamers cannot voice what's wrong with genre because blind fanboys and n00bs.
And I continuously see people complain about end game, what version of end game are we going with? The incredibly boring sounding one where you mindlessly kill raid bosses or do heroic dungeons until you get to need/greed a rare drop to increase your stats ever so slightly?
End game is just another way of saying "Pointless grinding to keep me playing until they release more content."
Mega servers aren't really an issue either if you can coordinate where you go with your friends/guild.
As for them being easy and often unfinished, yeah I'd agree. But then if you make them too hard you alienate a large portion of the community that doesn't have the time to coordinate an hour in advance on sophisticated tactics to kill each and every boss in the planned dungeon run. The unfinished side though is problematic but more often than not a result of producers pushing developers to release instead of having more time for polish.
Scripted content going over and over and over and over and over and over, sometimes resets, but then starts from point A, going to point B, C, D, then again over and over and over - dynamic my ass. At least in quest hub you complete 1 quest it's completed forever and for always.
Scripted content going over and over and over and over and over and over, sometimes resets, but then starts from point A, going to point B, C, D, then again over and over and over - dynamic my ass. At least in quest hub you complete 1 quest it's completed forever and for always.
Eh it's still a better system than having to wait for party member B to get on the same themepark quest line you're on so you can do it together while competing against others killing the same mobs you're needing to kill.
Dynamic questing needs work but the old system just creates needless contention and competition amongst players. If you're in an mmo and you're finding yourself complaining about players taking your kills, there's something wrong with the game. MMOs are suppose to be social, what good is it if you're having to race others to see who can kill the mob quickest to get credit for a quest that's just a bunch of numbers under the hood anyways?
And I continuously see people complain about end game, what version of end game are we going with? The incredibly boring sounding one where you mindlessly kill raid bosses or do heroic dungeons until you get to need/greed a rare drop to increase your stats ever so slightly?
End game is just another way of saying "Pointless grinding to keep me playing until they release more content."
Mega servers aren't really an issue either if you can coordinate where you go with your friends/guild.
As for them being easy and often unfinished, yeah I'd agree. But then if you make them too hard you alienate a large portion of the community that doesn't have the time to coordinate an hour in advance on sophisticated tactics to kill each and every boss in the planned dungeon run. The unfinished side though is problematic but more often than not a result of producers pushing developers to release instead of having more time for polish.
I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more than this one. Perfect.
finally MMOs are better games than world sims, and no need to depend on others to have fun. And no longer one needs to be stuck with one game for more than a few weeks.
Is this sarcasm? You play a massive multiplayer game, in order to not interact with others? You invest time in a MMO, to play for no longer than a few weeks? How is any of that better as far as a MMORPG goes? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but a great side-scroller action game sounds more up your alley.
I play a massive multiplayer game that happens to have IPs and gameplay mechanics that I like. The massive multiplayer part is totally coincidental.
And yes, SP games are more up my alley. I only give MMOs a chance because the devs make them into SP co-op games.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert 'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I stopped playing them.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
And I could not agree less.
'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I came back to the genre.
I think that the MMO pendulum is starting to swing back to its roots and the core game play and community mechanics that we all loved back in the day.
It's just going to take time.
I also believe that there's plenty of room for both casual focused MMO's as well as more in-depth offerings.
Players just need to learn that not every MMO is going to cater to their play style and instead of relentlessly complaining about games that were never meant for them, players should focus their time and attention on games that come the closest to meeting their needs.
Scripted content going over and over and over and over and over and over, sometimes resets, but then starts from point A, going to point B, C, D, then again over and over and over - dynamic my ass. At least in quest hub you complete 1 quest it's completed forever and for always.
Eh it's still a better system than having to wait for party member B to get on the same themepark quest line you're on so you can do it together while competing against others killing the same mobs you're needing to kill.
Bingo! There is the problem. People don't want to wait, just everything to be served to them right in time. You don't need to compete, you can ask to get in group or make your own group or kill alone. Another faction stealing kill? Good, that's how WPVP was born.
Dynamic questing needs work but the old system just creates needless contention and competition amongst players. If you're in an mmo and you're finding yourself complaining about players taking your kills, there's something wrong with the game. MMOs are suppose to be social, what good is it if you're having to race others to see who can kill the mob quickest to get credit for a quest that's just a bunch of numbers under the hood anyways?
Complaining about someone who KS your mob, lol? No, it's wrong you with you and your social interaction. If you don't want freaking 2 minutes for respawn, that's your problem, if you don't want make group or ask others to join your group it's your problem, again, not game. Simple - don't have time - don't play or play game where everything is handled to you just in 1 second after login. It's not hard to find game like that, it's mainstream. Social interaction in dynamic events it's like social interaction in real life when you went to forest and started talking to trees around.
Scripted content going over and over and over and over and over and over, sometimes resets, but then starts from point A, going to point B, C, D, then again over and over and over - dynamic my ass. At least in quest hub you complete 1 quest it's completed forever and for always.
Eh it's still a better system than having to wait for party member B to get on the same themepark quest line you're on so you can do it together while competing against others killing the same mobs you're needing to kill.
Bingo! There is the problem. People don't want to wait, just everything to be served to them right in time. You don't need to compete, you can ask to get in group or make your own group or kill alone. Another faction stealing kill? Good, that's how WPVP was born.
Dynamic questing needs work but the old system just creates needless contention and competition amongst players. If you're in an mmo and you're finding yourself complaining about players taking your kills, there's something wrong with the game. MMOs are suppose to be social, what good is it if you're having to race others to see who can kill the mob quickest to get credit for a quest that's just a bunch of numbers under the hood anyways?
Complaining about someone who KS your mob, lol? No, it's wrong you with you and your social interaction. If you don't want freaking 2 minutes for respawn, that's your problem, if you don't want make group or ask others to join your group it's your problem, again, not game. Simple - don't have time - don't play or play game where everything is handled to you just in 1 second after login. It's not hard to find game like that, it's mainstream. Social interaction in dynamic events it's like social interaction in real life when you went to forest and started talking to trees around.
So your answer to an archaic system forcing you to group up or otherwise have your kills stolen/people trolling/etc is... to just grin and bear it? Instead of making it where it's fluid in that when you hit a mob, and I hit a mob, we're both hitting a mob instead of only one getting claim to it.
Why would you have to kill 20 bears only to have to kill 30+ if people gank them from you in time. If you want a questing system at all, why favor the one that makes less sense in the end? On top of this you have to wait for respawns and race for the mobs against bots, or trolls purposefully killing things you're going for so it takes you longer.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert 'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I stopped playing them.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
And I could not agree less.
'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I came back to the genre.
MMO's should be more about social integration/interraction than not, sure having elements of a game that appeals to the single player game is one thing, but to concentrate on just that one thing will always be to the detriment of the game as a whole, this may be why after all these years, World of Warcraft is still the premier MMO of choice for most of the gaming 'public' even though it does caters to the single player experience, it also provides more than enough group content for those who do enjoy it.
Eve online is a game that has only gained in strength and accolades since its inception, and its not a single player game, i think one of the reasons why those that do complain about the game, and usually level accusations of one sort or another at it, is simply because they lack the ability to 'get on with others' and being a part of something is not and never was on the agenda.
I also see FFXIV;ARR being more 'group' orientated and perhaps having as many complainants for just that reason, the various billy no mates of this world can find no purchase in the various worlds because of their lack of social abilities. Overall i feel sorry for anyone who cannot engage with others, there is so much missed and so much just not understood by people who can't associate on a meaningful level, games like Planetside 2, good because they do provide an enhanced game experience by playing with others.
I truly miss the days of SWG where player interdependence actually meant something, perhaps we will never see its like again, but the more MMO features we allow to be removed from MMO games, just leaves us all the poorer for it. How many times will people quit a game without knowing quite why they felt the game was so 'unsatisfying' perhaps its because they play and find that no matter how much they achieve in the game, they are increasingly alone in their experience without others to share in their successes or failures, and more games these days do seem to embrace the 'alone in the crowd' experience.
Maybe I've missed some threads over the years, but I think this is officially the first time I've seen someone defend the need to wait for other party members to catch up to you in a questline. I've done it before and I've waited for others to do it before. It's boring when you're waiting and it's guilt-inducing when you're catching up. It's usually one of the first things that causes parties I've been in to split up and go do things they actually want to be doing. Very awkward.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert 'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I stopped playing them.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
And I could not agree less.
'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I came back to the genre.
MMO's should be more about social integration/interraction than not, sure having elements of a game that appeals to the single player game is one thing, but to concentrate on just that one thing will always be to the detriment of the game as a whole, this may be why after all these years, World of Warcraft is still the premier MMO of choice for most of the gaming 'public' even though it does caters to the single player experience, it also provides more than enough group content for those who do enjoy it.
Eve online is a game that has only gained in strength and accolades since its inception, and its not a single player game, i think one of the reasons why those that do complain about the game, and usually level accusations of one sort or another at it, is simply because they lack the ability to 'get on with others' and being a part of something is not and never was on the agenda.
I also see FFXIV;ARR being more 'group' orientated and perhaps having as many complainants for just that reason, the various billy no mates of this world can find no purchase in the various worlds because of their lack of social abilities. Overall i feel sorry for anyone who cannot engage with others, there is so much missed and so much just not understood by people who can't associate on a meaningful level, games like Planetside 2, good because they do provide an enhanced game experience by playing with others.
I truly miss the days of SWG where player interdependence actually meant something, perhaps we will never see its like again, but the more MMO features we allow to be removed from MMO games, just leaves us all the poorer for it. How many times will people quit a game without knowing quite why they felt the game was so 'unsatisfying' perhaps its because they play and find that no matter how much they achieve in the game, they are increasingly alone in their experience without others to share in their successes or failures, and more games these days do seem to embrace the 'alone in the crowd' experience.
There is no such thing as what MMO "should do". it is up to the devs to decide what audience to go after. And what is "detrimental" to a game? If millions of players are having fun, but they don't talk to each other, so what? It is about the preference of the audience, not some mystical "intent" of the "genre".
Eve is a good example of a failure. After SO many years, it has like around half a mil players. It has way fewer players than a game like TOR (which is panned by many) and make much less money. (And TOR is the pinnacle of a SP game in a MMO).
And when you say "leave us all poorer" .. you mean you. You certainly are not speaking for me .. because this solo-ization of MMO makes MMO fun games for me again. If they are all like UO & EQ or Eve, I wouldn't bother with them.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert 'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I stopped playing them.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
And I could not agree less.
'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I came back to the genre.
MMO's should be more about social integration/interraction than not, sure having elements of a game that appeals to the single player game is one thing, but to concentrate on just that one thing will always be to the detriment of the game as a whole, this may be why after all these years, World of Warcraft is still the premier MMO of choice for most of the gaming 'public' even though it does caters to the single player experience, it also provides more than enough group content for those who do enjoy it.
Eve online is a game that has only gained in strength and accolades since its inception, and its not a single player game, i think one of the reasons why those that do complain about the game, and usually level accusations of one sort or another at it, is simply because they lack the ability to 'get on with others' and being a part of something is not and never was on the agenda.
I also see FFXIV;ARR being more 'group' orientated and perhaps having as many complainants for just that reason, the various billy no mates of this world can find no purchase in the various worlds because of their lack of social abilities. Overall i feel sorry for anyone who cannot engage with others, there is so much missed and so much just not understood by people who can't associate on a meaningful level, games like Planetside 2, good because they do provide an enhanced game experience by playing with others.
I truly miss the days of SWG where player interdependence actually meant something, perhaps we will never see its like again, but the more MMO features we allow to be removed from MMO games, just leaves us all the poorer for it. How many times will people quit a game without knowing quite why they felt the game was so 'unsatisfying' perhaps its because they play and find that no matter how much they achieve in the game, they are increasingly alone in their experience without others to share in their successes or failures, and more games these days do seem to embrace the 'alone in the crowd' experience.
There is no such thing as what MMO "should do". it is up to the devs to decide what audience to go after. And what is "detrimental" to a game? If millions of players are having fun, but they don't talk to each other, so what? It is about the preference of the audience, not some mystical "intent" of the "genre".
Eve is a good example of a failure. After SO many years, it has like around half a mil players. It has way fewer players than a game like TOR (which is panned by many) and make much less money. (And TOR is the pinnacle of a SP game in a MMO).
And when you say "leave us all poorer" .. you mean you. You certainly are not speaking for me .. because this solo-ization of MMO makes MMO fun games for me again. If they are all like UO & EQ or Eve, I wouldn't bother with them.
All the more reason to get devs to make MMOs like they used to be.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert 'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I stopped playing them.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
And I could not agree less.
'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I came back to the genre.
Wait what? so you're looking for generic Online shooter Game #57?
Playing a game that advertises it self as one thing, but turns out to be another thing entirely is a good thing now? That's like buying a game, because the cover said: 'the best online FPS of 2014'. And once you start playing it, it is actually a SinglePlayer platformer with no guns what so ever... Because that is pretty much what "MMORPGs" do nowadays.
STOOPID When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.
Scripted content going over and over and over and over and over and over, sometimes resets, but then starts from point A, going to point B, C, D, then again over and over and over - dynamic my ass. At least in quest hub you complete 1 quest it's completed forever and for always.
Eh it's still a better system than having to wait for party member B to get on the same themepark quest line you're on so you can do it together while competing against others killing the same mobs you're needing to kill.
Bingo! There is the problem. People don't want to wait, just everything to be served to them right in time. You don't need to compete, you can ask to get in group or make your own group or kill alone. Another faction stealing kill? Good, that's how WPVP was born.
Dynamic questing needs work but the old system just creates needless contention and competition amongst players. If you're in an mmo and you're finding yourself complaining about players taking your kills, there's something wrong with the game. MMOs are suppose to be social, what good is it if you're having to race others to see who can kill the mob quickest to get credit for a quest that's just a bunch of numbers under the hood anyways?
Complaining about someone who KS your mob, lol? No, it's wrong you with you and your social interaction. If you don't want freaking 2 minutes for respawn, that's your problem, if you don't want make group or ask others to join your group it's your problem, again, not game. Simple - don't have time - don't play or play game where everything is handled to you just in 1 second after login. It's not hard to find game like that, it's mainstream. Social interaction in dynamic events it's like social interaction in real life when you went to forest and started talking to trees around.
So your answer to an archaic system forcing you to group up or otherwise have your kills stolen/people trolling/etc is... to just grin and bear it? Instead of making it where it's fluid in that when you hit a mob, and I hit a mob, we're both hitting a mob instead of only one getting claim to it.
Why would you have to kill 20 bears only to have to kill 30+ if people gank them from you in time. If you want a questing system at all, why favor the one that makes less sense in the end? On top of this you have to wait for respawns and race for the mobs against bots, or trolls purposefully killing things you're going for so it takes you longer.
It's a silly old system that needs to go.
In rl hunt, I shot the bird, you shot the bird, but I was the 1st, sorry bro, I'm not spliting my hunt. You heard and saw my shot, why do you think you're eligible for bird? In discoteque, I met one girl, I went to talk to her 1st, you came 2nd, what do you want, to have her both of us? I'm waiting for payment in bank, I'm 1st in the line, you're behind me, asking me if we can both get payment, but there can be only one, you either waiting after me or me allows you to go 1st or you change the line, but in the end, there can be only one at the moment in 1 line.. Me going to cash out toilet paper on checkout in supermarket, guess what...
It's a silly system, but people get used to it.
Oh, shit, wait... I don't need to go to hunt anymore, I'll order Chuck Testa going hunt for me. Don't need to go to discoteque to meet girls, I can call hooker. Why to wait in line in bank for salary, I can go to nearest ATM. Why to go to market to buy toilet paper, I can order online and get it delivered right at my home. Why to wait 1-2 minutes to respawn when I can join guy killing mob 99% of time and get kill counted for 1 shot...
Edit: Ok, I can accept new system as long as there is challenging mobs/bosses with imba loot which requires group and won't allow one-shot-spam-number-one to get imba items.
You are right, just like every other person on this site, every game sucks. I don't even know why half the people on here play games at all though. From UO - ESO have been all crap. This next crop of "winners" coming down the pipe line look to even suck more and will all be torn to shreds before launch with their half finished games.
I just want a nice F2P, sub based, P2W, B2P with no box fee, cash shop based game to drop some money into building my house with boosters and grind away mobs in a sandbox world with twitch based combat, classless classes, non-asian-asian grinder, with no realistic or cartoony graphics (because after all game play over graphics) skill based, FPS with third person view, hardcore, ffa - full loot, open world, pvp, harsh death penalty and raids so I can sell my epic loot on a RMAH, also have no instances, phasing, questing, storyline, factions or any of the kind of stuff, make it on a server, none of that mega server crap. Yeah, you heard meh!
You are right, just like every other person on this site, every game sucks. I don't even know why half the people on here play games at all though. From UO - ESO have been all crap.
I get your point, but I just wanted to add that I, personally, have enjoyed a LOT of MMO's over the years and just because I didn't stick with them or didn't consider them worth subbing to, etc., doesn't mean they aren't good games, just not the what some of the "we want worlds, not games" crowd has good memories of.
I liked Aion. I liked WoW. GW2 is great. Wildstar is a decent take on a classic format. ESO seems very deep with some great graphics and armor/weapon customization. Rift didn't grab me but there was a lot of work done on the game, and EQ2 had a lot of great questing. Oh and don't forget Neverwinter, it has the second best combat I've played since GW2 with Wildstar a close third.
Sure, you could look at it that every MMO does something wrong or you could look at it that a lot of MMOs do something right. So many pessimists around here.
- Solo mmos, in some cases story lines are keeping players to themselves.
- Most mmos are just way too easy.
- Looking- for- dungeons auto grouping
- Paying for alpha's ( this is the now one )
- Too short,
- No end games.
- slow updates as promised.
- Lack of social or need for grouping.
In My opinion
It seems that for the last 5 years every release has something EXTREAMLY wrong with it. One or several of the above, prevents any possibility of reasoning out and justifying playing past 30 days.
Last 5 years? Try ever since WoW. WoW started the dumbing down process and that started when it was released. You can even throw EQ2 in there since it came out first and was dumbed down as well, just not as much at release. Both games were targeting casual players over hardcore, elitist raider types and after WoW exploded every suit wearing goober thought that making games super easy was all it took.
Originally posted by delete5230 It seems that for the last 5 years every release has something EXTREAMLY wrong with it. One or several of the above, prevents any possibility of reasoning out and justifying playing past 30 days.
Which game 5 years ago got it right then?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If I were to pick my own point in history when MMOs went down hill it would be " Warhammer Online ".
If I recall both Warhammer Online and Age of Conann had close to the same schedule release dates. I had to choose between one so I picked Warhammer. Well, I had never been blind sided with a sucker punch like I was with Warhammer's release. I guess I was naive with bad mmos.
Up to this point, I never really played a bad one. FF11 was not for me. I could never get into the controls for PC and the overall scope of the game was awkward in early game, this could have been do to the controls were too frustrating to even try. BUT I never knocked the game and took it as just-not-for-me.....So their was not really a bad mmo before Warhammer and AOC.
Warhammer- Small zones, boring game play, and all xp went to instanced scenarios leaving WvW and the Open world dead and lifeless.
AOC- never even tried it. At the time I didn't have a computer to run it, however the release was a total failure with its super mini zones and solo play early game ( this really turned me off ). Walls everyplace to increase eye candy, leaving direct paths and funneled players to where they had to go like a carrot on a stick.
This to me was the beginning of the end. I couldn't even go back to any of the fine classics as they turned F2P cash grabs. Such as EQ1 and 2, Vanguard, LOTRO, D&D Online, and then WoW with it's Dungeon Finder, and easy play expansion packs.
Other bad ones :
Rift- great class builds, beautiful world, BUT small zones and you could not play with anyone !!! All quest were chains. See that guy over there ?....Well you couldn't play with him, your on part 5 he is on part 1. You had to match quest for quest. No point to add him to your friends list, because the next day you were separated on quest again.
FF14- WoW what a let down. Small zones, confusing maps, dynamic event auto grouping, monsters every two feet got very frustrating to any sort of relaxing and enjoyment.
GuildWars 2- It's a solo game, we can leave it at that.
Neverwinter- Cash grab from the beginning.
So we have it, Warhammer was the beginning of the end.
Comments
I do have to agree here, but only to an extent. What I've stated before and will state yet again is that I think there's room for everyone and everything nowadays, but the problem is that when ONE gameplay model became popular (ie: action combat for example), most other games started leaning that way. Now there are plenty of different action combat MMO's to choose from, but they've completely forgotten about the people who want to spend hours doing menial tasks or just /sitting in a cantina for hours.
This is not Highlander, people. There can be more than one.
I could not agree more. Haven't spent a dime on MMOs in years; and spent a considerable amount of money on them near the turn of the millenium.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Why are dynamic events bad?
And I continuously see people complain about end game, what version of end game are we going with? The incredibly boring sounding one where you mindlessly kill raid bosses or do heroic dungeons until you get to need/greed a rare drop to increase your stats ever so slightly?
End game is just another way of saying "Pointless grinding to keep me playing until they release more content."
Mega servers aren't really an issue either if you can coordinate where you go with your friends/guild.
As for them being easy and often unfinished, yeah I'd agree. But then if you make them too hard you alienate a large portion of the community that doesn't have the time to coordinate an hour in advance on sophisticated tactics to kill each and every boss in the planned dungeon run. The unfinished side though is problematic but more often than not a result of producers pushing developers to release instead of having more time for polish.
I actually also like dynamic events, and they made me far more sociable, more likely not just to play with others, but to chit chat with others.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Scripted content going over and over and over and over and over and over, sometimes resets, but then starts from point A, going to point B, C, D, then again over and over and over - dynamic my ass. At least in quest hub you complete 1 quest it's completed forever and for always.
Eh it's still a better system than having to wait for party member B to get on the same themepark quest line you're on so you can do it together while competing against others killing the same mobs you're needing to kill.
Dynamic questing needs work but the old system just creates needless contention and competition amongst players. If you're in an mmo and you're finding yourself complaining about players taking your kills, there's something wrong with the game. MMOs are suppose to be social, what good is it if you're having to race others to see who can kill the mob quickest to get credit for a quest that's just a bunch of numbers under the hood anyways?
I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more than this one. Perfect.
I play a massive multiplayer game that happens to have IPs and gameplay mechanics that I like. The massive multiplayer part is totally coincidental.
And yes, SP games are more up my alley. I only give MMOs a chance because the devs make them into SP co-op games.
And I could not agree less.
'Massively Multiplayer' and 'Role Playing' have left the MMORPG genre. And that ladies & gentlemen is exactly why I came back to the genre.
I think that the MMO pendulum is starting to swing back to its roots and the core game play and community mechanics that we all loved back in the day.
It's just going to take time.
I also believe that there's plenty of room for both casual focused MMO's as well as more in-depth offerings.
Players just need to learn that not every MMO is going to cater to their play style and instead of relentlessly complaining about games that were never meant for them, players should focus their time and attention on games that come the closest to meeting their needs.
So your answer to an archaic system forcing you to group up or otherwise have your kills stolen/people trolling/etc is... to just grin and bear it? Instead of making it where it's fluid in that when you hit a mob, and I hit a mob, we're both hitting a mob instead of only one getting claim to it.
Why would you have to kill 20 bears only to have to kill 30+ if people gank them from you in time. If you want a questing system at all, why favor the one that makes less sense in the end? On top of this you have to wait for respawns and race for the mobs against bots, or trolls purposefully killing things you're going for so it takes you longer.
It's a silly old system that needs to go.
MMO's should be more about social integration/interraction than not, sure having elements of a game that appeals to the single player game is one thing, but to concentrate on just that one thing will always be to the detriment of the game as a whole, this may be why after all these years, World of Warcraft is still the premier MMO of choice for most of the gaming 'public' even though it does caters to the single player experience, it also provides more than enough group content for those who do enjoy it.
Eve online is a game that has only gained in strength and accolades since its inception, and its not a single player game, i think one of the reasons why those that do complain about the game, and usually level accusations of one sort or another at it, is simply because they lack the ability to 'get on with others' and being a part of something is not and never was on the agenda.
I also see FFXIV;ARR being more 'group' orientated and perhaps having as many complainants for just that reason, the various billy no mates of this world can find no purchase in the various worlds because of their lack of social abilities. Overall i feel sorry for anyone who cannot engage with others, there is so much missed and so much just not understood by people who can't associate on a meaningful level, games like Planetside 2, good because they do provide an enhanced game experience by playing with others.
I truly miss the days of SWG where player interdependence actually meant something, perhaps we will never see its like again, but the more MMO features we allow to be removed from MMO games, just leaves us all the poorer for it. How many times will people quit a game without knowing quite why they felt the game was so 'unsatisfying' perhaps its because they play and find that no matter how much they achieve in the game, they are increasingly alone in their experience without others to share in their successes or failures, and more games these days do seem to embrace the 'alone in the crowd' experience.
There is no such thing as what MMO "should do". it is up to the devs to decide what audience to go after. And what is "detrimental" to a game? If millions of players are having fun, but they don't talk to each other, so what? It is about the preference of the audience, not some mystical "intent" of the "genre".
Eve is a good example of a failure. After SO many years, it has like around half a mil players. It has way fewer players than a game like TOR (which is panned by many) and make much less money. (And TOR is the pinnacle of a SP game in a MMO).
And when you say "leave us all poorer" .. you mean you. You certainly are not speaking for me .. because this solo-ization of MMO makes MMO fun games for me again. If they are all like UO & EQ or Eve, I wouldn't bother with them.
All the more reason to get devs to make MMOs like they used to be.
Wait what? so you're looking for generic Online shooter Game #57?
Playing a game that advertises it self as one thing, but turns out to be another thing entirely is a good thing now? That's like buying a game, because the cover said: 'the best online FPS of 2014'. And once you start playing it, it is actually a SinglePlayer platformer with no guns what so ever... Because that is pretty much what "MMORPGs" do nowadays.
STOOPID
When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.
In rl hunt, I shot the bird, you shot the bird, but I was the 1st, sorry bro, I'm not spliting my hunt. You heard and saw my shot, why do you think you're eligible for bird? In discoteque, I met one girl, I went to talk to her 1st, you came 2nd, what do you want, to have her both of us? I'm waiting for payment in bank, I'm 1st in the line, you're behind me, asking me if we can both get payment, but there can be only one, you either waiting after me or me allows you to go 1st or you change the line, but in the end, there can be only one at the moment in 1 line.. Me going to cash out toilet paper on checkout in supermarket, guess what...
It's a silly system, but people get used to it.
Oh, shit, wait... I don't need to go to hunt anymore, I'll order Chuck Testa going hunt for me. Don't need to go to discoteque to meet girls, I can call hooker. Why to wait in line in bank for salary, I can go to nearest ATM. Why to go to market to buy toilet paper, I can order online and get it delivered right at my home. Why to wait 1-2 minutes to respawn when I can join guy killing mob 99% of time and get kill counted for 1 shot...
Edit: Ok, I can accept new system as long as there is challenging mobs/bosses with imba loot which requires group and won't allow one-shot-spam-number-one to get imba items.
You are right, just like every other person on this site, every game sucks. I don't even know why half the people on here play games at all though. From UO - ESO have been all crap. This next crop of "winners" coming down the pipe line look to even suck more and will all be torn to shreds before launch with their half finished games.
I just want a nice F2P, sub based, P2W, B2P with no box fee, cash shop based game to drop some money into building my house with boosters and grind away mobs in a sandbox world with twitch based combat, classless classes, non-asian-asian grinder, with no realistic or cartoony graphics (because after all game play over graphics) skill based, FPS with third person view, hardcore, ffa - full loot, open world, pvp, harsh death penalty and raids so I can sell my epic loot on a RMAH, also have no instances, phasing, questing, storyline, factions or any of the kind of stuff, make it on a server, none of that mega server crap. Yeah, you heard meh!
Who is with me?
I get your point, but I just wanted to add that I, personally, have enjoyed a LOT of MMO's over the years and just because I didn't stick with them or didn't consider them worth subbing to, etc., doesn't mean they aren't good games, just not the what some of the "we want worlds, not games" crowd has good memories of.
I liked Aion. I liked WoW. GW2 is great. Wildstar is a decent take on a classic format. ESO seems very deep with some great graphics and armor/weapon customization. Rift didn't grab me but there was a lot of work done on the game, and EQ2 had a lot of great questing. Oh and don't forget Neverwinter, it has the second best combat I've played since GW2 with Wildstar a close third.
Sure, you could look at it that every MMO does something wrong or you could look at it that a lot of MMOs do something right. So many pessimists around here.
Last 5 years? Try ever since WoW. WoW started the dumbing down process and that started when it was released. You can even throw EQ2 in there since it came out first and was dumbed down as well, just not as much at release. Both games were targeting casual players over hardcore, elitist raider types and after WoW exploded every suit wearing goober thought that making games super easy was all it took.
Which game 5 years ago got it right then?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If I were to pick my own point in history when MMOs went down hill it would be " Warhammer Online ".
If I recall both Warhammer Online and Age of Conann had close to the same schedule release dates. I had to choose between one so I picked Warhammer. Well, I had never been blind sided with a sucker punch like I was with Warhammer's release. I guess I was naive with bad mmos.
Up to this point, I never really played a bad one. FF11 was not for me. I could never get into the controls for PC and the overall scope of the game was awkward in early game, this could have been do to the controls were too frustrating to even try. BUT I never knocked the game and took it as just-not-for-me.....So their was not really a bad mmo before Warhammer and AOC.
Warhammer- Small zones, boring game play, and all xp went to instanced scenarios leaving WvW and the Open world dead and lifeless.
AOC- never even tried it. At the time I didn't have a computer to run it, however the release was a total failure with its super mini zones and solo play early game ( this really turned me off ). Walls everyplace to increase eye candy, leaving direct paths and funneled players to where they had to go like a carrot on a stick.
This to me was the beginning of the end. I couldn't even go back to any of the fine classics as they turned F2P cash grabs. Such as EQ1 and 2, Vanguard, LOTRO, D&D Online, and then WoW with it's Dungeon Finder, and easy play expansion packs.
Other bad ones :
Rift- great class builds, beautiful world, BUT small zones and you could not play with anyone !!! All quest were chains. See that guy over there ?....Well you couldn't play with him, your on part 5 he is on part 1. You had to match quest for quest. No point to add him to your friends list, because the next day you were separated on quest again.
FF14- WoW what a let down. Small zones, confusing maps, dynamic event auto grouping, monsters every two feet got very frustrating to any sort of relaxing and enjoyment.
GuildWars 2- It's a solo game, we can leave it at that.
Neverwinter- Cash grab from the beginning.
So we have it, Warhammer was the beginning of the end.