i dont find wrong the free to play with cash shop model, also i dont understand why someone can have problem with dynamic events, wtf is wrong with you guys ??? on the GW2's example was the only time i enjoyed PvE experience into an MMORPG, thats the reason i disagree on your poll .
also zoning came with the very first mmorpgs, and EVE online is on one megaserver, just the lately (ESO & GW2) provided a new megaserver mechanic which is just BAD.
i would say instead of turning your back better demand ...
edit: also at the top of the page i read something good "Sure, you could look at it that every MMO does something wrong or you could look at it that a lot of MMOs do something right. So many pessimists around here."
And for those with the negative outlook on MMO's today, I doubt even 10 of you can get together and agree on what a "proper MMO" should be. Just try and make a thread just among yourselves and see if you can even nail down 10 features without fighting about it and perhaps you would realize the challenge facing things like this. Once this is figured out, perhaps Congress on both sides of the isle can finally get something (or anything done).
Mostly I'm pointing out the issue is mostly social and many people here might agree among themselves that there needs to be something done in terms of what these games should be, but probably couldn't even provide anything close to a good answer or specific details towards solving "that problem" and get those same people to agree upon it.
Oh wait but let me guess, you're all geniuses right and anyone working within the MMO game industry must be a bunch of idiots compared to yourselves
I agree, i dont see why should mega servers are implemented
- Zoning
Depends the mmo type, zoning can be a good thing in some games.
- F2P Cash Shops
again, no need to be a bad thing, depends how really affects game play.
- Half finished releases, some are un reparable.
This is the bigger issue in some releases.
- Dynamic Events
bad thing? really? its only bad is bad implemented, just like any other feature in-game.
- Solo mmos, in some cases story lines are keeping players to themselves.
Again depends the mmo, i prefer comunity driven mmos but i confess i had fun my solo experience in TSW, but i play TSW like a single player story drive game and i love it. The best story driven mmo we have imo.
- Most mmos are just way too easy.
Extreme relative this one.
- Looking- for- dungeons auto grouping
If the core of the game is dugeons/raids dont see this a bad thing but normaly i dont play this ones.
- Paying for alpha's ( this is the now one )
Dont see nothing wrong here, its optional.
- Too short,
too short = lack of content? if yes i agree.
- No end games.
Relative, i see to much "end game" sometimes.
- slow updates as promised.
Hate this one, devs promise everthing... they should stop doing that.
- Lack of social or need for grouping.
Sometimes is up to player socialize, and alot of them dont want to.
I agree - but I give up. All of my former hobbies have been dumbed down one way or another. It always gets so bad that I lose interest. That's what has happened with mmorpg's.
I tried to fight it when dealing with my former hobbies, i put a great deal of time in it, but once money completely takes over there is no stopping the diminishing quality of life that occurs.
It happens not only in games, but in industry as well.
I'd imagine MMOs will be on the way out soon and return back to niche gaming......As more and more people spend mroe time on their phones and tablets, that will be more appealing to them to game there also....RIght now that isnt much of a threat, but as it continues to get more momentum it will be......Lets face it, PC gaming is dying fast.....
Originally posted by Theocritus I'd imagine MMOs will be on the way out soon and return back to niche gaming......As more and more people spend mroe time on their phones and tablets, that will be more appealing to them to game there also....RIght now that isnt much of a threat, but as it continues to get more momentum it will be......Lets face it, PC gaming is dying fast.....
It seems possible, but for whatever reason consoles and PCs are still having good game sales. You see lots of console games now made for PC as well. I don't believe tablets are at the point where they will replace gaming machines graphically. If people are satisfied with mostly simple 2D games then perhaps they will be happy. I do agree that most people seem to have a tablet these days. It just shows that people want simplicity in their devices just like they want it in their MMOs.
I agree - but I give up. All of my former hobbies have been dumbed down one way or another. It always gets so bad that I lose interest. That's what has happened with mmorpg's.
I tried to fight it when dealing with my former hobbies, i put a great deal of time in it, but once money completely takes over there is no stopping the diminishing quality of life that occurs.
It happens not only in games, but in industry as well.
Oh come on. Just get a job with NASA if you're that in need of intellectual stimulus.
When I play MMOs, one reason I rarely interact with others and one reason I do like it sort of stupidly easy at times is because I have every imaginable lecture, technological/historical/political/biographical/medical documentary, audiobook, or sundry other thing you can imagine running in the background. MMOs are very similar to screensavers for me, and I like them that way.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
- Solo mmos, in some cases story lines are keeping players to themselves.
- Most mmos are just way too easy.
- Looking- for- dungeons auto grouping
- Paying for alpha's ( this is the now one )
- Too short,
- No end games.
- slow updates as promised.
- Lack of social or need for grouping.
In My opinion
It seems that for the last 5 years every release has something EXTREAMLY wrong with it. One or several of the above, prevents any possibility of reasoning out and justifying playing past 30 days.
You got greedy with the "all or nothing" approach. I am sure many would agree with most. I certainly would agree with most of these but tough for me to check "all" or "nothing" when neither apply to me.
I agree - but I give up. All of my former hobbies have been dumbed down one way or another. It always gets so bad that I lose interest. That's what has happened with mmorpg's.
I tried to fight it when dealing with my former hobbies, i put a great deal of time in it, but once money completely takes over there is no stopping the diminishing quality of life that occurs.
It happens not only in games, but in industry as well.
Oh come on. Just get a job with NASA if you're that in need of intellectual stimulus.
When I play MMOs, one reason I rarely interact with others and one reason I do like it sort of stupidly easy at times is because I have every imaginable lecture, technological/historical/political/biographical/medical documentary, audiobook, or sundry other thing you can imagine running in the background. MMOs are very similar to screensavers for me, and I like them that way.
Grats....because somehow you got the entire genre that used to be for us to cater to you.
And for those with the negative outlook on MMO's today, I doubt even 10 of you can get together and agree on what a "proper MMO" should be. Just try and make a thread just among yourselves and see if you can even nail down 10 features without fighting about it and perhaps you would realize the challenge facing things like this. Once this is figured out, perhaps Congress on both sides of the isle can finally get something (or anything done).
Mostly I'm pointing out the issue is mostly social and many people here might agree among themselves that there needs to be something done in terms of what these games should be, but probably couldn't even provide anything close to a good answer or specific details towards solving "that problem" and get those same people to agree upon it.
Oh wait but let me guess, you're all geniuses right and anyone working within the MMO game industry must be a bunch of idiots compared to yourselves
The majority of us who are unhappy with the genre started out with the original MMO's and loved what they were. No one said we are geniuses or we know better than anyone else, we just have a freaking opinion like anyone else. Problem?
No we would never agree on every minute detail, but we do all agree:
1) MMOs have become easy mode
2) MMOs have lost their sense of community and social interaction.
These games used to be worlds you get come home from work or school and immerse yourself in, now they are just video games.
If mmos now with huge budgets have problems with not enough content or not enough end game... it means you have a trade off.
Either developers find out how to cut down costs, since they can not receive enough funding considering the risk of over funding a game with good enough everything and a long story but also a great end game.
If i had to choose, I would choose a short story, but a great end game.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
If mmos now with huge budgets have problems with not enough content or not enough end game... it means you have a trade off.
Either developers find out how to cut down costs, since they can not receive enough funding considering the risk of over funding a game with good enough everything and a long story but also a great end game.
If i had to choose, I would choose a short story, but a great end game.
The best time i have had in MMO was when i played several hours every day and never reached end game (raiding).
There wasn't any more content then there's today f.ex in SWTOR, ESO or Wildstar, but the pacing was different; you didn't beat the game in couple of weeks like you do now.
MMOs used to be like obstacle courses; the distance to the end was not long, but to get there you had to stop several times, sometimes to think for a while and occasionally try again if you failed in what you were doing.
Now they have removed all the obstacles and made the course a paved highway for little jimmy and his wheelchair to go. Ofc, this means the course is accessible for not only handicapped, but also elder folks with their canes, small kids not tall enough to climb the obstacles, adults not used to physical exercise, and so on. But guess what, majority of people walking there get to the end in no time and ask "Did i actually pay something for this? What there's to do now?". And then they see those shiny stationary bikes at the edge of the paved road, just before the construction site where a new road is being built.
If i had to choose, i would choose a game as long as possible with lots of different obstacles and loose the stationary bikes at the end. When and if i manage to get to the end somehow, new content with new obstacles would be ready for me to go.
I agree - but I give up. All of my former hobbies have been dumbed down one way or another. It always gets so bad that I lose interest. That's what has happened with mmorpg's.
I tried to fight it when dealing with my former hobbies, i put a great deal of time in it, but once money completely takes over there is no stopping the diminishing quality of life that occurs.
It happens not only in games, but in industry as well.
Oh come on. Just get a job with NASA if you're that in need of intellectual stimulus.
When I play MMOs, one reason I rarely interact with others and one reason I do like it sort of stupidly easy at times is because I have every imaginable lecture, technological/historical/political/biographical/medical documentary, audiobook, or sundry other thing you can imagine running in the background. MMOs are very similar to screensavers for me, and I like them that way.
Grats....because somehow you got the entire genre that used to be for us to cater to you.
If only I had such power! Truth is, most of us are that way, for one reason or another. If we weren't, no one would buy these games. And they keep selling pretty well. And it's not that a challenge is a bad thing, it's just that you and I probably have very different definitions of good challenge vs bad challenge. Dealing with a moody guild leader in the midst of a crisis, in the midst of a raid (be it PvP or otherwise) is a challenge I've faced before. And it was challenging. And I don't care to deal with it ever again. Because it wasn't fun.
And to be fair, the reason I don't aspire to lead guilds? I'm moody, and my life at times is just one crisis after another. I wouldn't wish myself on my worst enemy some days, much less hapless random internet strangers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Originally posted by Viper482 The majority of us who are unhappy with the genre started out with the original MMO's and loved what they were. No one said we are geniuses or we know better than anyone else, we just have a freaking opinion like anyone else. Problem?
No we would never agree on every minute detail, but we do all agree:
1) MMOs have become easy mode
2) MMOs have lost their sense of community and social interaction.
These games used to be worlds you get come home from work or school and immerse yourself in, now they are just video games.
And you reply to me as if I didn't play back in those days I also started out at the age of 14 in the earliest MMO that "made it" -- UO. There were a lot of great things that came out of it but I think people easily forget the negatives (which were numerous). I can see you don't like my tone but I merely respond to the negativity in which these players tend to round up and have MMO industry bashings, I'm quite convinced at least half no longer even play MMO's, so yes I do have a slight problem especially when the opinions spewed out are unbalanced and skewed, so sorry for having an opinion about it
1) MMO's have become easy mode - relative to what and who? if you are a hardcore gamer variety perhaps the game is easy to get through, but for the average like myself,it comes with its own challenges 2) MMO's losing a sense of community and social interaction - have you seen a community when the game is over-top extremely hard? Have you played vanilla WoW? I wasn't even that casual then and I still only was able to see 1 40-man because my success was contingent on 39 other people's along with their gears (which dropped about 5-6 at a time per run). Oh yes and watching guilds form and crumble wasn't fun especially if you were in one of those guilds.
And I disagree with how those worlds were as casual as you made them out to be. Sure you can hit max level in most of them (and in some old MMO's THAT was the goal originally), but making any progress demanded at a minimum 1 1/2 to 2 hours of time and that's for a short run. So no, if I were to go to those games right after work and play them now, I would not get anywhere and would probably unsubscribe much quicker than when I was in high school/college (where I had much more time).
In DAOC, it required much longer times then you also ran the risk of losing progress literally. And to make any progress required a group so if your guild wasn't on, you weren't generally going anywhere unless you wait about an hour for a pick up group at hot spots where chatting and finding anyone to join was an absolute mess because all you can do is say, whisper, shout etc. No other tools to help. Need to take off the rose-colored glasses when looking back, I still remember the horrors of old MMO's that I had to put up with back in the day and would much prefer not to return to that.
Todays Mmoprg ..10000000 quests all solo none can be done with others since its hard to find ppls exactly on the same quest ..everyone solos they seem to be important but they arent they seem to give you choices but everyone gets the same quests anyway and everyone gets the same rewards
surely theyre all fully voice over and costs millions to create but i dont care about them cause ...it never makes a difference theyre all easy and every 2 year old can do them its just a timesink ...actually you want to do some of them for some interesting rewards but theyre all super easy so everyone can do them ...everyone is the same and they never have a real impact on the game.
Early Mmos very few quests but they had some impact you kinda wanted the items you got there they been hard you neded to team up in order to do them ..they have been epic.
Once done with the few quests you could go explore the world find Named Monster explore dungeons find rare spawns ..there are no rare monsters today they all pop all 30 seconds with the same loot everyone gets the same ...you could kill stuff for xps and to get some items cash experience get stronger ..fights have been difficult you did want to group for them ..in order to maximize xps loot you could prove to be usefull to others as a healer tank dps ...being good at your role meant being more valuable to ppls ..today noone cares everyone solos the quests ..you cant shine ...but i want to shine i want to prove im valuable but todays games wont let me....
Originally posted by Crusades I agree - but I give up. All of my former hobbies have been dumbed down one way or another. It always gets so bad that I lose interest...
Yes the genre has forgone the original MMO generation in favor of the new one. Silly considering we have a lot of $ to spend, you'd think one company would cater to our play style.
WoW's numbers have driven the industry mad with lust; causing them to continuously mix sugar and water in an attempt to beat Coke, when they don't even understand why Coke is successful.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by nariusseldon Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games.
Put that in your signature.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
No we would never agree on every minute detail, but we do all agree:
1) MMOs have become easy mode
2) MMOs have lost their sense of community and social interaction.
These games used to be worlds you get come home from work or school and immerse yourself in, now they are just video games.
Who are "we"? I certainly do not agree with (1). Diablo 3 T6 is challenging. WoW hard mode raid is challenging. LoL pvp is challenging if you play at high ranks.
(2) is true ... and i like MMOs more because of it.
Comments
i dont find wrong the free to play with cash shop model, also i dont understand why someone can have problem with dynamic events, wtf is wrong with you guys ??? on the GW2's example was the only time i enjoyed PvE experience into an MMORPG, thats the reason i disagree on your poll .
also zoning came with the very first mmorpgs, and EVE online is on one megaserver, just the lately (ESO & GW2) provided a new megaserver mechanic which is just BAD.
i would say instead of turning your back better demand ...
edit: also at the top of the page i read something good "Sure, you could look at it that every MMO does something wrong or you could look at it that a lot of MMOs do something right. So many pessimists around here."
And for those with the negative outlook on MMO's today, I doubt even 10 of you can get together and agree on what a "proper MMO" should be. Just try and make a thread just among yourselves and see if you can even nail down 10 features without fighting about it and perhaps you would realize the challenge facing things like this. Once this is figured out, perhaps Congress on both sides of the isle can finally get something (or anything done).
Mostly I'm pointing out the issue is mostly social and many people here might agree among themselves that there needs to be something done in terms of what these games should be, but probably couldn't even provide anything close to a good answer or specific details towards solving "that problem" and get those same people to agree upon it.
Oh wait but let me guess, you're all geniuses right and anyone working within the MMO game industry must be a bunch of idiots compared to yourselves
I agree, i dont see why should mega servers are implemented
Depends the mmo type, zoning can be a good thing in some games.
again, no need to be a bad thing, depends how really affects game play.
This is the bigger issue in some releases.
bad thing? really? its only bad is bad implemented, just like any other feature in-game.
Again depends the mmo, i prefer comunity driven mmos but i confess i had fun my solo experience in TSW, but i play TSW like a single player story drive game and i love it. The best story driven mmo we have imo.
Extreme relative this one.
If the core of the game is dugeons/raids dont see this a bad thing but normaly i dont play this ones.
Dont see nothing wrong here, its optional.
too short = lack of content? if yes i agree.
Relative, i see to much "end game" sometimes.
Hate this one, devs promise everthing... they should stop doing that.
Sometimes is up to player socialize, and alot of them dont want to.
Just my opinion too
Fucking epic post.
I agree - but I give up. All of my former hobbies have been dumbed down one way or another. It always gets so bad that I lose interest. That's what has happened with mmorpg's.
I tried to fight it when dealing with my former hobbies, i put a great deal of time in it, but once money completely takes over there is no stopping the diminishing quality of life that occurs.
It happens not only in games, but in industry as well.
I don't think I like you very much right now.
It seems possible, but for whatever reason consoles and PCs are still having good game sales. You see lots of console games now made for PC as well. I don't believe tablets are at the point where they will replace gaming machines graphically. If people are satisfied with mostly simple 2D games then perhaps they will be happy. I do agree that most people seem to have a tablet these days. It just shows that people want simplicity in their devices just like they want it in their MMOs.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games.
Oh come on. Just get a job with NASA if you're that in need of intellectual stimulus.
When I play MMOs, one reason I rarely interact with others and one reason I do like it sort of stupidly easy at times is because I have every imaginable lecture, technological/historical/political/biographical/medical documentary, audiobook, or sundry other thing you can imagine running in the background. MMOs are very similar to screensavers for me, and I like them that way.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
You got greedy with the "all or nothing" approach. I am sure many would agree with most. I certainly would agree with most of these but tough for me to check "all" or "nothing" when neither apply to me.
Grats....because somehow you got the entire genre that used to be for us to cater to you.
The majority of us who are unhappy with the genre started out with the original MMO's and loved what they were. No one said we are geniuses or we know better than anyone else, we just have a freaking opinion like anyone else. Problem?
No we would never agree on every minute detail, but we do all agree:
1) MMOs have become easy mode
2) MMOs have lost their sense of community and social interaction.
These games used to be worlds you get come home from work or school and immerse yourself in, now they are just video games.
... because he spends all his time trolling the old school mmorpg/ffa pvp threads lol
If mmos now with huge budgets have problems with not enough content or not enough end game... it means you have a trade off.
Either developers find out how to cut down costs, since they can not receive enough funding considering the risk of over funding a game with good enough everything and a long story but also a great end game.
If i had to choose, I would choose a short story, but a great end game.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
The best time i have had in MMO was when i played several hours every day and never reached end game (raiding).
There wasn't any more content then there's today f.ex in SWTOR, ESO or Wildstar, but the pacing was different; you didn't beat the game in couple of weeks like you do now.
MMOs used to be like obstacle courses; the distance to the end was not long, but to get there you had to stop several times, sometimes to think for a while and occasionally try again if you failed in what you were doing.
Now they have removed all the obstacles and made the course a paved highway for little jimmy and his wheelchair to go. Ofc, this means the course is accessible for not only handicapped, but also elder folks with their canes, small kids not tall enough to climb the obstacles, adults not used to physical exercise, and so on. But guess what, majority of people walking there get to the end in no time and ask "Did i actually pay something for this? What there's to do now?". And then they see those shiny stationary bikes at the edge of the paved road, just before the construction site where a new road is being built.
If i had to choose, i would choose a game as long as possible with lots of different obstacles and loose the stationary bikes at the end. When and if i manage to get to the end somehow, new content with new obstacles would be ready for me to go.
If only I had such power! Truth is, most of us are that way, for one reason or another. If we weren't, no one would buy these games. And they keep selling pretty well. And it's not that a challenge is a bad thing, it's just that you and I probably have very different definitions of good challenge vs bad challenge. Dealing with a moody guild leader in the midst of a crisis, in the midst of a raid (be it PvP or otherwise) is a challenge I've faced before. And it was challenging. And I don't care to deal with it ever again. Because it wasn't fun.
And to be fair, the reason I don't aspire to lead guilds? I'm moody, and my life at times is just one crisis after another. I wouldn't wish myself on my worst enemy some days, much less hapless random internet strangers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
And you reply to me as if I didn't play back in those days
I also started out at the age of 14 in the earliest MMO that "made it" -- UO. There were a lot of great things that came out of it but I think people easily forget the negatives (which were numerous). I can see you don't like my tone but I merely respond to the negativity in which these players tend to round up and have MMO industry bashings, I'm quite convinced at least half no longer even play MMO's, so yes I do have a slight problem especially when the opinions spewed out are unbalanced and skewed, so sorry for having an opinion about it 
1) MMO's have become easy mode - relative to what and who? if you are a hardcore gamer variety perhaps the game is easy to get through, but for the average like myself,it comes with its own challenges
2) MMO's losing a sense of community and social interaction - have you seen a community when the game is over-top extremely hard? Have you played vanilla WoW? I wasn't even that casual then and I still only was able to see 1 40-man because my success was contingent on 39 other people's along with their gears (which dropped about 5-6 at a time per run). Oh yes and watching guilds form and crumble wasn't fun especially if you were in one of those guilds.
And I disagree with how those worlds were as casual as you made them out to be. Sure you can hit max level in most of them (and in some old MMO's THAT was the goal originally), but making any progress demanded at a minimum 1 1/2 to 2 hours of time and that's for a short run. So no, if I were to go to those games right after work and play them now, I would not get anywhere and would probably unsubscribe much quicker than when I was in high school/college (where I had much more time).
In DAOC, it required much longer times then you also ran the risk of losing progress literally. And to make any progress required a group so if your guild wasn't on, you weren't generally going anywhere unless you wait about an hour for a pick up group at hot spots where chatting and finding anyone to join was an absolute mess because all you can do is say, whisper, shout etc. No other tools to help. Need to take off the rose-colored glasses when looking back, I still remember the horrors of old MMO's that I had to put up with back in the day and would much prefer not to return to that.
Todays Mmoprg ..10000000 quests all solo none can be done with others since its hard to find ppls exactly on the same quest ..everyone solos they seem to be important but they arent they seem to give you choices but everyone gets the same quests anyway and everyone gets the same rewards
surely theyre all fully voice over and costs millions to create but i dont care about them cause ...it never makes a difference theyre all easy and every 2 year old can do them its just a timesink ...actually you want to do some of them for some interesting rewards but theyre all super easy so everyone can do them ...everyone is the same and they never have a real impact on the game.
Early Mmos very few quests but they had some impact you kinda wanted the items you got there they been hard you neded to team up in order to do them ..they have been epic.
Once done with the few quests you could go explore the world find Named Monster explore dungeons find rare spawns ..there are no rare monsters today they all pop all 30 seconds with the same loot everyone gets the same ...you could kill stuff for xps and to get some items cash experience get stronger ..fights have been difficult you did want to group for them ..in order to maximize xps loot you could prove to be usefull to others as a healer tank dps ...being good at your role meant being more valuable to ppls ..today noone cares everyone solos the quests ..you cant shine ...but i want to shine i want to prove im valuable but todays games wont let me....
Yes the genre has forgone the original MMO generation in favor of the new one. Silly considering we have a lot of $ to spend, you'd think one company would cater to our play style.
WoW's numbers have driven the industry mad with lust; causing them to continuously mix sugar and water in an attempt to beat Coke, when they don't even understand why Coke is successful.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Put that in your signature.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Who are "we"? I certainly do not agree with (1). Diablo 3 T6 is challenging. WoW hard mode raid is challenging. LoL pvp is challenging if you play at high ranks.
(2) is true ... and i like MMOs more because of it.