I get what your saying OP, however my theory is this..
WoW came in at the right time and right place, honestly, I still believe WoW to be a anomaly in mmo history and will go down that way in my book. I don't see any other mmorpg to topple that unless the new mmorpg that would be classified as a WoW killer has something new and innovating that can draw the WoW masses away from their mmo to the new mmo.
Possible VR mmorpg's with total interaction and immersion into the game, then I can see WoWs millions subs being easily toppled.
Yup. WoW is big because it came out at the right time. When MMO's were being discovered. Before WoW no one knew that you could play with thousands of people in a huge seamless fantasy world.
LOL, too bad you really can't do that today now can you?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by delete5230Please let me finish first....- I'm not knocking Asian games, But because it's not a western mmo, developers (Trion ) will have to take a back seat on updating the game to cater to our players.- F2P simply scares players......Sure, many here are looking for a free game. But the serious ones that are looking for a long awaited mmo that could be played for years and call it home COULD possibly be in for a let down no matter how good this mmo is.......I understand that they will have a sub option too. But the F2P option could have bad effects.....F2P knocks it down a few pegs from being a long standing game. Here is a good example :Say YOU at a personal level love the game, your making all kinds of friends, you belong to that perfect guild. Yet you friends are always leaving because it's free to play.I just wish we had a long awaited full, rich sandbox mmo that we can call our own.
- F2P simply scares players So much wrong in this one statement that it isn't even funny. Maybe you dislike F2P but I assure you the vast majority do not.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Sooooo, why can't the west make a game like this ?.....Why do we have to copy and past an MMO ?.....Maybe our Western marketers and business managers will not allow developers to make a game like this !.....Western business tells what we like and we will like it. It takes a Korean company to brake the mold.
What is Trion doing other than translating ?.....Maybe developing F2P aspects that slightly fall below pissing players off like all F2P games do ?
Originally posted by delete5230Please let me finish first....- I'm not knocking Asian games, But because it's not a western mmo, developers (Trion ) will have to take a back seat on updating the game to cater to our players.- F2P simply scares players......Sure, many here are looking for a free game. But the serious ones that are looking for a long awaited mmo that could be played for years and call it home COULD possibly be in for a let down no matter how good this mmo is.......I understand that they will have a sub option too. But the F2P option could have bad effects.....F2P knocks it down a few pegs from being a long standing game. Here is a good example :Say YOU at a personal level love the game, your making all kinds of friends, you belong to that perfect guild. Yet you friends are always leaving because it's free to play.I just wish we had a long awaited full, rich sandbox mmo that we can call our own.
- F2P simply scares players So much wrong in this one statement that it isn't even funny. Maybe you dislike F2P but I assure you the vast majority do not.
ArcheAge would need to be able to replace the general quality of features in WoW, which includes PVE and combat, and from what I've seen and heard, it does not. That's the sole reason a lot of games never came close, I don't think it has anything to do with country of origin and especially not payment model.
I really wish people would stop these 'Is Game X a WoW killer' thread. It goes nowhere. AA is nothing like WoW which is why almost entirely different gaming base likes it. WoW has ZERO customization to player builds (there is no REAL choice) thus its not something I enjoy. But others do and more power to them.
I've been in AA alpha since it started and haven't stopped playing since. This game currently speaks to me... we'll see if it can maintain my interest over the long term. So far its looking good.
Sooooo, why can't the west make a game like this ?.....Why do we have to copy and past an MMO ?.....Maybe our Western marketers and business managers will not allow developers to make a game like this !.....Western business tells what we like and we will like it. It takes a Korean company to brake the mold.
What is Trion doing other than translating ?.....Maybe developing F2P aspects that slightly fall below pissing players off like all F2P games do ?
Because up until ESO (and maybe Wildstar) traditional themeparks make more money. Most players are absolutely horrified by open world pvp games.
Most people want to come home have a beer and click on the screen, they want casualized bite sized cookie experiences that don't cause any stress and require minimal effort.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
no it couldnt.. not enough end game content for 1, it's been out for 2 years in korea and still not enough end game content, PvP ends up being 1 sided due to faction imbalance as par whats happened on korean servers which has lead to many people to stop playing... and you cant compete with WoW's many years of content.
stop using this term, WoW killer is stupid and this game sure as shit has no shot.
Edit - and as much as i find rift enjoyable, trion had their shot they didnt kill WoW, and AA is not a "feature rich" sandbox.. it's a watered down themebox
trion can make balance changes them self like add a buff for a low number side or what ever they need to do
Given that WoW is as much of a ghost town as most other MMOs out there these days... I don't see how killing it would elevate another game to any particularly new status.
- I'm not knocking Asian games, But because it's not a western mmo, developers (Trion ) will have to take a back seat on updating the game to cater to our players.
- F2P simply scares players......Sure, many here are looking for a free game. But the serious ones that are looking for a long awaited mmo that could be played for years and call it home COULD possibly be in for a let down no matter how good this mmo is.......I understand that they will have a sub option too. But the F2P option could have bad effects.....F2P knocks it down a few pegs from being a long standing game.
Here is a good example :
Say YOU at a personal level love the game, your making all kinds of friends, you belong to that perfect guild. Yet you friends are always leaving because it's free to play.
I just wish we had a long awaited full, rich sandbox mmo that we can call our own.
You are absolutely right -
If it was what it isn't, it would be a wow killer.
Originally posted by funcon If you are looking for a western sandbox then EverQuest Next is the game to watch.
I have serious doubts that SoE is capable of making a good sandbox game - they have no developers that are sandbox-centric (SWG devs are no longer there).
For a Dev studio to produce a quality sandbox game, you need to have sandbox minded devs - I know that most people think that "well any Dev can be whatever they want, and any studio can be whatever they want"- this is simply wrong.
Each Dev studio has a way of development that is " in their blood" - switching from themepark centric way of doing things to sandbox is not something that can be done with a flip of a switch - doesn't work like that.
I agree and this is the reason why i never hyped EQ next. Is somewhat hard to believe the creators of the father of themeparks (EQ 1) will create a true sandbox.
no it couldnt.. not enough end game content for 1, it's been out for 2 years in korea and still not enough end game content, PvP ends up being 1 sided due to faction imbalance as par whats happened on korean servers which has lead to many people to stop playing... and you cant compete with WoW's many years of content.
stop using this term, WoW killer is stupid and this game sure as shit has no shot.
WOW fanboy
i havent played WoW in like a year and a half, doesnt change the fact it's a well established game with much content. nothing fanboy about it, i just think archage is a very limited game with little to no replay value after spending 2 months in russian servers.
Archeage is a sub based mmo with a gimped free to play unlimited trial to max level.
There is a diffrence then say a free to play mmo with 90% of their stuff behind a cash shop.
Now thats out of the way !
Archeage might be one hell of a sleeping giant of Trion keeps the sandbox elements and kicks down most of the horrible 1.0 features and changes, and so far they are doing just that
Still people will be turned off by a openworld pvp centric mmo. But there are tons of themepark mmo for them to choose from.
Still i think many die hard themepark players are bored with those mmo's and might need some extra spice as Archage seems to do a risk versus reward realy well.
And what is more fun then a full pve guild assisting each other to get those tradepacks across the ocean while feeling the heat from pirates in their neck ?
Archage is not for the lonewolf.....it should never make adjustments to cater to these kind of players. And it seems from alpha feedback that this mmo is catering to all kinds of players who focus on playing with friends / guilds / raids !
So far i like everything i have seen about this. But a wow killer ? people should stop using it as we do not have any numbers about how many EU / USA players wow currently has.... Most wow players come from Asia who play in netcafe's and pay 3 cent per hour.... Not realy a subsciption but still gets counted as if they pay 15 dollar / 12 euro. Very misleading from blizzard.
But Archeage can certainly be the surpise mmo of 2014 ! And who knows where it ends
im bored with themeparks.. AA still isnt the savior, i enjoy playing ESO more then i enjoy AA at end game, and thats saying something seeing as how ESO is so on the rails it aint funny...
Edit - and one of my toons is in a big russian guild and has done large ship battles and all of that... but still, there just isnt that much to offer and serevrs get one sided from people rerolling to the winning side... the i guess sort of good thing they do is faction lock now when one is getting too overpopulated.. but thats also not fair to people so who knows.
i threw down the £110 andI bought into this game, and so far (level 20) loving every minute - its why im still up at this ungodly uk hour
However, a big bone of contention i have, will people STOP calling this a sandbox, this is not a sandbox, its more a muddy hybrid of sand & theme, lets say "themebox"
In any sense of the term sandbox you should be open to do what / when / how you want, this game doesn't let you do that, you have to follow some quite strict rules / guidelines
A true sandbox would allow you to chose the any skill at any time, and not have to do x/y/z to get there.
If i may refer to my own joy , EvE - this is a sandbox because there are little to no rules on how tyou do things, for instance if i want to build a Titan (biggest ship in game) i dont need to build 3000 other things to get the skill to build it. I can choose ftom day 1 of my toons life to skill up without building a single thing and build it.
This game doesn't offer that, you have to build so many things before hand, from waht i see you also cannot do ANYTHING you want, you cannto max every crafting skil out,
This game is good, but not a sandbox, its almost hybrid and what it does, it does well
i threw down the £110 andI bought into this game, and so far (level 20) loving every minute - its why im still up at this ungodly uk hour
However, a big bone of contention i have, will people STOP calling this a sandbox, this is not a sandbox, its more a muddy hybrid of sand & theme, lets say "themebox"
In any sense of the term sandbox you should be open to do what / when / how you want, this game doesn't let you do that, you have to follow some quite strict rules / guidelines
A true sandbox would allow you to chose the any skill at any time, and not have to do x/y/z to get there.
If i may refer to my own joy , EvE - this is a sandbox because there are little to no rules on how tyou do things, for instance if i want to build a Titan (biggest ship in game) i dont need to build 3000 other things to get the skill to build it. I can choose ftom day 1 of my toons life to skill up without building a single thing and build it.
This game doesn't offer that, you have to build so many things before hand, from waht i see you also cannot do ANYTHING you want, you cannto max every crafting skil out,
This game is good, but not a sandbox, its almost hybrid and what it does, it does well
Archeage is pretty damn good, "F2P" or not. There are some things that can be better combat/skill wise, and the lore and questing is inconsequential but damn it's pretty exhilarating. I really hope devs from the US take note and borrow the good parts.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
ArcheAge will be a griefer's paradise. I don't see this attracting the numbers of WoW once the larger PvE population understands this.
It already is, and this is the one thing that turns me off. I miss and loved the old open world pvp games of the 90s, but today's crowd are a bunch of um...(insert negative here lol). It worked back then because you had the vast majority of players (like 95% or maybe even more) that would police themselves. In the videos and blogs and what nots that I've been seeing, people sit at docks with warships waiting for you to come in and grief the fishermen and tradesmen. This is by design, since you will have to spend money or get an alchemist to make dust to repair your ship, or you'll have to build another ship. I've seen many videos of people at the coast, and there are so many boats there waiting to kill people (all from same guild) and kill everything that comes in range, then steals their stuff.
Now I know what you're going to say, there is a justice system. Yes, but that won't stop the griefers from griefing. It didn't stop the small number of griefers in the early years of MMOs, and it won't stop them now.
I stay far away from f2p mmo's because the company running the game only cares about getting as much money from each player as possible through the cash shop. I know they need money to stay in business but from the sub to f2p mmo transitions I've witnessed it always turns the game into a cash grab.
Swtor is a perfect example of this. The game went from adding updates directly into the game to pumping them directly into the cartel market. I don't know much about AA but I'll probably only play it for a few days to check it out. I have always been a firm supporter of SUB ONLY mmo's, and the only reason why they failed so miserably is because half wit companies thought nobody would care if they launched every single mmo half finished.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I stay far away from f2p mmo's because the company running the game only cares about getting as much money from each player as possible through the cash shop. I know they need money to stay in business but from the sub to f2p mmo transitions I've witnessed it always turns the game into a cash grab.
Swtor is a perfect example of this. The game went from adding updates directly into the game to pumping them directly into the cartel market. I don't know much about AA but I'll probably only play it for a few days to check it out. I have always been a firm supporter of SUB ONLY mmo's, and the only reason why they failed so miserably is because half wit companies thought nobody would care if they launched every single mmo half finished.
I've always said that development on F2P games is all about creating fluffy bunny ears or a unicorn. P2P development is about getting people to stay and play new content. If you compare just about any F2P game vs a P2P game, P2P comes out with content at least twice as fast. Where F2P has a new item every other day or so.
Comments
LOL, too bad you really can't do that today now can you?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- F2P simply scares players
So much wrong in this one statement that it isn't even funny. Maybe you dislike F2P but I assure you the vast majority do not.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Sooooo, why can't the west make a game like this ?.....Why do we have to copy and past an MMO ?.....Maybe our Western marketers and business managers will not allow developers to make a game like this !.....Western business tells what we like and we will like it. It takes a Korean company to brake the mold.
What is Trion doing other than translating ?.....Maybe developing F2P aspects that slightly fall below pissing players off like all F2P games do ?
It is interesting to see people question why a game like this cant come from the western markets....
It is intestering because the very things that they would like to change for a game like this, are the things that make it possible.
You hear alot of this crap on these boards.
I really wish people would stop these 'Is Game X a WoW killer' thread. It goes nowhere. AA is nothing like WoW which is why almost entirely different gaming base likes it. WoW has ZERO customization to player builds (there is no REAL choice) thus its not something I enjoy. But others do and more power to them.
I've been in AA alpha since it started and haven't stopped playing since. This game currently speaks to me... we'll see if it can maintain my interest over the long term. So far its looking good.
Because up until ESO (and maybe Wildstar) traditional themeparks make more money. Most players are absolutely horrified by open world pvp games.
Most people want to come home have a beer and click on the screen, they want casualized bite sized cookie experiences that don't cause any stress and require minimal effort.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
trion can make balance changes them self like add a buff for a low number side or what ever they need to do
You are absolutely right -
If it was what it isn't, it would be a wow killer.
But it ain't.
I agree and this is the reason why i never hyped EQ next. Is somewhat hard to believe the creators of the father of themeparks (EQ 1) will create a true sandbox.
i havent played WoW in like a year and a half, doesnt change the fact it's a well established game with much content. nothing fanboy about it, i just think archage is a very limited game with little to no replay value after spending 2 months in russian servers.
im bored with themeparks.. AA still isnt the savior, i enjoy playing ESO more then i enjoy AA at end game, and thats saying something seeing as how ESO is so on the rails it aint funny...
Edit - and one of my toons is in a big russian guild and has done large ship battles and all of that... but still, there just isnt that much to offer and serevrs get one sided from people rerolling to the winning side... the i guess sort of good thing they do is faction lock now when one is getting too overpopulated.. but thats also not fair to people so who knows.
Fellowing his/her logic. EverQuest Next is not going to the a wow killer because it is F2P
i threw down the £110 andI bought into this game, and so far (level 20) loving every minute - its why im still up at this ungodly uk hour
However, a big bone of contention i have, will people STOP calling this a sandbox, this is not a sandbox, its more a muddy hybrid of sand & theme, lets say "themebox"
In any sense of the term sandbox you should be open to do what / when / how you want, this game doesn't let you do that, you have to follow some quite strict rules / guidelines
A true sandbox would allow you to chose the any skill at any time, and not have to do x/y/z to get there.
If i may refer to my own joy , EvE - this is a sandbox because there are little to no rules on how tyou do things, for instance if i want to build a Titan (biggest ship in game) i dont need to build 3000 other things to get the skill to build it. I can choose ftom day 1 of my toons life to skill up without building a single thing and build it.
This game doesn't offer that, you have to build so many things before hand, from waht i see you also cannot do ANYTHING you want, you cannto max every crafting skil out,
This game is good, but not a sandbox, its almost hybrid and what it does, it does well
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
i'm glad you get it...
Archeage is pretty damn good, "F2P" or not. There are some things that can be better combat/skill wise, and the lore and questing is inconsequential but damn it's pretty exhilarating. I really hope devs from the US take note and borrow the good parts.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It already is, and this is the one thing that turns me off. I miss and loved the old open world pvp games of the 90s, but today's crowd are a bunch of um...(insert negative here lol). It worked back then because you had the vast majority of players (like 95% or maybe even more) that would police themselves. In the videos and blogs and what nots that I've been seeing, people sit at docks with warships waiting for you to come in and grief the fishermen and tradesmen. This is by design, since you will have to spend money or get an alchemist to make dust to repair your ship, or you'll have to build another ship. I've seen many videos of people at the coast, and there are so many boats there waiting to kill people (all from same guild) and kill everything that comes in range, then steals their stuff.
Now I know what you're going to say, there is a justice system. Yes, but that won't stop the griefers from griefing. It didn't stop the small number of griefers in the early years of MMOs, and it won't stop them now.
I stay far away from f2p mmo's because the company running the game only cares about getting as much money from each player as possible through the cash shop. I know they need money to stay in business but from the sub to f2p mmo transitions I've witnessed it always turns the game into a cash grab.
Swtor is a perfect example of this. The game went from adding updates directly into the game to pumping them directly into the cartel market. I don't know much about AA but I'll probably only play it for a few days to check it out. I have always been a firm supporter of SUB ONLY mmo's, and the only reason why they failed so miserably is because half wit companies thought nobody would care if they launched every single mmo half finished.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I've always said that development on F2P games is all about creating fluffy bunny ears or a unicorn. P2P development is about getting people to stay and play new content. If you compare just about any F2P game vs a P2P game, P2P comes out with content at least twice as fast. Where F2P has a new item every other day or so.