I normally see a 50% retention rate in new MMO's so the OP's 74% is pretty good.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
Originally posted by Maelwydd The good news is 130 accounts leaving won't really be too much of a dent in that 10, 000, 000 you predicted, got to see that as a positive right?
To many studio's make generic mmo's.....thats why people dont stay -_- SWTOR / GW2 / ESO / Wildstar none of these mmo's offer that Xfactor...
Lets take a look at Asia and what they are producing:
Blade & Soul / Archeage / Black Desert
All do something special while our western mmo's just seem to copy the same old same old same old and more of the same old..... Altough GW2 did try something new, the endgame is dramaticly lackluster.
For me ESO was epic untill i reached level 50......made it to VR2 with my nightblade before rerolling a sorcerer to VR 7 and then just had enough. The game makes you suffocate once reaching VR contend.
Everything it does feels generic and half assed clunky or boring. While up to level 50 it was ok ! but then they just completely killed their own mmo. We will never see box sale numbers tough, they were not great to begin with and with such insane dropoff after 2 months they should feel ashamed.
Was in 5 guilds and 4 just bleeded to death from 150+ members to 5/15 on primetime... gigantic dropoff only matched by SWTOR / Warhammer. Another mmo to quickly forget... Zenimax failed us bigtime.
The game was nerver epic you just got involved with the hype.
I normally see a 50% retention rate in new MMO's so the OP's 74% is pretty good.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
That 74% is kind of a skewed number since it is not a typical guild like other MMO's. It is a trading guild and being a part these type of guilds are a must in ESO if you want to have any shot at a semblance of an economy. Because if this, people aren't going to leave nor are they going to a be a tight knit community with personal accolades and recognition since the guilds are really there for a purpose and not a community. Had this been a normal guild the numbers would not have been nearly that high and the turnover rate would have been more severe. As it stands with no auction house or system like in the Final Fantasies, you are required to join one. I was a part of a guild that was not a trading guild and instead focused on PVE and PvP and we were only about 60+. Many of our members also were a part of trading guilds that they really didn't associate with other than to conduct business and I know that there was a sharp decline when the first month ended and I assure you it wasn't 74% retention.
I normally see a 50% retention rate in new MMO's so the OP's 74% is pretty good.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
That 74% is kind of a skewed number since it is not a typical guild like other MMO's. It is a trading guild and being a part these type of guilds are a must in ESO if you want to have any shot at a semblance of an economy. Because if this, people aren't going to leave nor are they going to a be a tight knit community with personal accolades and recognition since the guilds are really there for a purpose and not a community. Had this been a normal guild the numbers would not have been nearly that high and the turnover rate would have been more severe. As it stands with no auction house or system like in the Final Fantasies, you are required to join one. I was a part of a guild that was not a trading guild and instead focused on PVE and PvP and we were only about 60+. Many of our members also were a part of trading guilds that they really didn't associate with other than to conduct business and I know that there was a sharp decline when the first month ended and I assure you it wasn't 74% retention.
So the probabilty of that 26% having actually left the game is higher than using the retention of a relatively small guild as a guide to estimate the retention of the game. If what you say is true, that being a part of a trading guild is a must, that is.
It's also possible that people who are a member of a trading guild, are more invested in the game, than your average player.
Either way, it's better than what I'd have guessed.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
Yeh a 500 member trade guild is not really a good measure of game population. Specially in a mega server environment. If the game was broken down into individual servers then maybe. However, chances are most of those trade guild members are only members because they need a place to hock and buy goods since there is no AH and not for a common pool of like minded players to go adventuring with. Luckily ZOS allows membership into many guilds. Imagine if you could only be a member of one guild in a game with no AH and no player vendor stands? At least they alleviated bad game design of no AH/No player vendor stands with multiple guild membership. The funny thing is I wonder how much overlap there is with multiple trade guild members being members across many of the same other trade guilds and thus defeating the purpose of multiple membership in the first place.
People consume what they want to consume and then leave or not according to whatever they were there for in the first place.
There are a lot of people who want a fast paced quick ride and are there to "beat the game"...whatever that means to them. And some want a slower pace listening to all dialog and reading all books.
Some of us want to create and build unique combinations of skills and that keeps us interested longer. Some don't care about that.and once they've done the ride with one character wouldn't dream of doing it again.
Some of us really enjoy the large scale raid-group-oriented PVP and stay for that. Others prefer 10 minute scenarios and leave because it's not part of this game.
They either give us what we individually want or we leave. This is no different than any other MMO... so far so good for me.
PS... my guild is growing, not losing members. Even though we're not strictly PVP-oriented, we had almost 2 full raid groups at a scheduled PVP event last weekend. This is the most we've ever had.
+1
As for the numbers lets not get carried away here folks. Extrapolating game wide retention from 1 guild ... seriously.
May as well use Iselin's guild and say the game is growing - except we know that people move around looking for active guilds so maybe not!
And not everyone will join a trading guild on day 1 - I know I am not the only person who focuses on levelling first (using just drops) and on "other stuff" later.
However the fact that there were inactive levels 7-14 removed doesn't, imo, mean that the accounts didn't have higher level characters as well. Maybe hit 50 in a few days on a different character. As Iselin says people level at different speeds. The alternative suggests an awful lot of people really, really didn't like the game - or got refunds ... I don't think it unreasonable to assume they levelled fast on different character(s).
I normally see a 50% retention rate in new MMO's so the OP's 74% is pretty good.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
That 74% is kind of a skewed number since it is not a typical guild like other MMO's. It is a trading guild and being a part these type of guilds are a must in ESO if you want to have any shot at a semblance of an economy. Because if this, people aren't going to leave nor are they going to a be a tight knit community with personal accolades and recognition since the guilds are really there for a purpose and not a community. Had this been a normal guild the numbers would not have been nearly that high and the turnover rate would have been more severe. As it stands with no auction house or system like in the Final Fantasies, you are required to join one. I was a part of a guild that was not a trading guild and instead focused on PVE and PvP and we were only about 60+. Many of our members also were a part of trading guilds that they really didn't associate with other than to conduct business and I know that there was a sharp decline when the first month ended and I assure you it wasn't 74% retention.
So the probabilty of that 26% having actually left the game is higher than using the retention of a relatively small guild as a guide to estimate the retention of the game. If what you say is true, that being a part of a trading guild is a must, that is.
It's also possible that people who are a member of a trading guild, are more invested in the game, than your average player.
Either way, it's better than what I'd have guessed.
It's not about the guild, only that using a guilds numbers to come up with a % of retention is going to be skewed when the guild is a necessity just to partake in an important function of the game. I wasn't saying using a smaller guild to obtain a retention rate was a better option at all, only that it will paint a very different picture.
And no it is not really about people being more invested in the game just because they are a part of a trade guild. An account can be in 5 different guilds at the same time and joining a trading guild is a necessity and not done to form comradery. I was a part of a trading guild for the sole purpose of having some place to sell the loads of junk that was clogging my inventory and nothing more and judging from the lack of community communication, I can say that many others who were members of the trading guild felt the same way. And what I say is true and it is a must, unless you want to always be overrun with clutter and like NPC selling every item. The only other option would be to spend all your time spamming chat to sell your junk, but that is exactly why these types of guilds were created in the first place.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
Yeh a 500 member trade guild is not really a good measure of game population. Specially in a mega server environment. If the game was broken down into individual servers then maybe. However, chances are most of those trade guild members are only members because they need a place to hock and buy goods since there is no AH and not for a common pool of like minded players to go adventuring with. Luckily ZOS allows membership into many guilds. Imagine if you could only be a member of one guild in a game with no AH and no player vendor stands? At least they alleviated bad game design of no AH/No player vendor stands with multiple guild membership. The funny thing is I wonder how much overlap there is with multiple trade guild members being members across many of the same other trade guilds and thus defeating the purpose of multiple membership in the first place.
The main reason I quit playing was how much trouble I was having playing with my friends. I really hate all the phasing. Having to switch the phase to your group mates, and just trying to quest together was pretty hard for me. I was probably doing something wrong, but I shouldn't have to work so hard to group up and play with friends on my friends list. The only thing that I didn't have issues with grouping was PvP.
I didn't feel paying $15 a month for a solo adventure was worth it.
When you read some of the responses to threads like this you would think that the people still playing are never going to leave. As if people didn't buy 3+ month sub packages from the get go.
Hate to break it to some of you, but an MMO doesn't just survive on retention, it has to keep replacing those that quit after a few months. Considering all the negativity and the fact everyone keeps pointing out the same reasons for quitting, you can bet ESO is not attracting many new players.
If the OP thinks that ESO will end up with 7.5 million subs with the amount of negativity and complaints the game gets (even he's pointing out what a lot of other people have pointed out as flaws and reasons for quitting) then Wildstar will be the first 25 million sub mmo considering its getting practically no negativity.
The main reason I quit playing was how much trouble I was having playing with my friends. I really hate all the phasing. Having to switch the phase to your group mates, and just trying to quest together was pretty hard for me. I was probably doing something wrong, but I shouldn't have to work so hard to group up and play with friends on my friends list. The only thing that I didn't have issues with grouping was PvP.
I didn't feel paying $15 a month for a solo adventure was worth it.
These things still aren't fixed? What!??!? What is the time frame for that to be fixed? I alone didn't play past beta for this exact reason. I think others that didn't get to experience it in beta are understanding how unfriendly this issue is. Therein why some of the retention rate is dropping
Defend it all you want but this issue is not acceptable one bit!!!
I removed over 130 inactive player accounts from my 500 member Trade Store guild from 1 month to 2 months old. I noticed two things about almost the entire batch of players. They were just about all R1 or they were all level 7-14.
I think all the R1, are players who hit R1 and found grinding xp on quests ect was too much and too long.
For the 7-14 level players who went inactive, we concluded that since most of them played atleast 1 month, they were not reaching dungeons or group play activies fast enough to keep them in the game.
I think these two things really should be looked at by Zenimax and addressed so that people do not give up on the game over really easy and simple fixes they could add to the game. boosting xp from R1-R10 might fix the later levels, and putting in starting dungeons at level 7-10 would be very reasonable for people to get into group play activies faster and not give up before even reaching group play.
I just wanted to note it is a 500 member guild, so since launch we had a 74% retention rate so far. Which I think is pretty high.
Also to note, when you join a guild, you join with your "Account" so all of these players had not logged into their accounts for this period of time.
I know for me the main reason I'm unsubbing was when i found out the truth on what the VR content really was,which for me had nothing to do with how challenging it was.I absolutely refuse to go into enemy faction zones redoing 1-50 content quests for that enemy faction.to make matters worse they list this so called content on the website as if it's some kind of special end game content for soloing or duo.If and when they add more alternatives to leveling from VR1-10 i may come back.Did actually enjoy the game,even tho it's painfully obvious that it should have never been released when it was.
Originally posted by sumdumguy1 I can't speak for your guild, but I left because while I enjoyed the game, in its present state there was no way it worthy of a sub fee.
Too bad it took like 5 patches, but in it's current state, ESO is launch acceptable.
Its called Wildstar came out and all the sheep jumped to the " next big thing " hoping and praying its the best MMO ever and will keep them busy longer than a month or 2.
but deep down they know better and will be back on the forums bashing the games they purchase over and over praising the next big shinny as the best MMO because its not out yet.
rinse repeat for 10+ years now.
I dont think so....
ESO feels and plays like a series of Novels..
Where Wildstar feels like a commicbook...
Never have there been two Themepark games more different..
But then, you can enjoy both at the same time, they compliment eachother very well, one for when you want to take it easy, and the other for when you want to fully engage yourself in the action.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by sumdumguy1 I can't speak for your guild, but I left because while I enjoyed the game, in its present state there was no way it worthy of a sub fee.
Too bad it took like 5 patches, but in it's current state, ESO is launch acceptable.
so they fixed the group phasing then? if not then , NOPE!
Its called Wildstar came out and all the sheep jumped to the " next big thing " hoping and praying its the best MMO ever and will keep them busy longer than a month or 2.
but deep down they know better and will be back on the forums bashing the games they purchase over and over praising the next big shinny as the best MMO because its not out yet.
rinse repeat for 10+ years now.
I dont think so....
ESO feels and plays like a series of Novels..
Where Wildstar feels like a commicbook...
Never have there been two Themepark games more different..
But then, you can enjoy both at the same time, they compliment eachother very well, one for when you want to take it easy, and the other for when you want to fully engage yourself in the action.
Wildstar may have the WoW stylized art but the game is designed for teaming and has more elder game then any MMO I have seen in 15 years. Sad thing is, there was a good chance I would have bought ESO as I was a beta tester. The problems they have now with teaming was something beta testers kept telling them. I know I posted on the subject. Solo content in a MMO is good, but even solo content should have the option of playing with a friend as this is a MMO, or is it? I really hope ZM takes another look at how their content plays out with people making teams and duos. My wife and I went bonkers trying to make this game work for us. Been playing TES games since I was a kid and dreaming of a TES MMO for a long time. So I found this crushing.
For the 7-14 level players who went inactive, we concluded that since most of them played atleast 1 month, they were not reaching dungeons or group play activies fast enough to keep them in the game.
I left in this range but not for the reasons you assume. I just wasn't enjoying it, I had all 4 classes to this level range but still didn't find myself enjoying the game. When I was at the point of forcing myself to log on and play I knew I wasn't going to stick it out. If you don't find a game fun why bother playing it. You're probably going to say that I should have tried dungeons, these were fun 5 years ago but they all have the same theme - kill trash, kill mini-boss, kill more trash... kill big boss at the end. This is repetitive and has been done too many times.
Until a developer breaks the mold and comes up with something new I will be taking a break from MMOs.
I left because the game is static, un-dynamic, and boring. For instance: Nothing in the world changes or is affected by your actions. Burn some boats? A little fire will appear on their decks and then.....that's it. they don't sink or break apart or anything...static, boring, old!
I became a vampire, it seemed really cool! Maybe I can immerse myself in this role...I can stalk people and NPCs will hate me because I am essentially a monster...nope! Absolutely no change to my environment or consequences...my stats are slightly affected based on if I feed, and my face starts to look orcish...that's it...hell, I can walk around at full noon without any consequences right into the fucking mayor's office.
These are just 2 examples...petty maybe, but they expose the underlying problem of ESO for me: it's boring, static, and despite the pretty particle effects it plays like it's just old!
I really wanted to put my roots down and stick with a new MMO for years like I did with a few in the past. That may still happen; it just won't happen for me with ESO.
People consume what they want to consume and then leave or not according to whatever they were there for in the first place.
There are a lot of people who want a fast paced quick ride and are there to "beat the game"...whatever that means to them. And some want a slower pace listening to all dialog and reading all books.
Some of us want to create and build unique combinations of skills and that keeps us interested longer. Some don't care about that.and once they've done the ride with one character wouldn't dream of doing it again.
Some of us really enjoy the large scale raid-group-oriented PVP and stay for that. Others prefer 10 minute scenarios and leave because it's not part of this game.
They either give us what we individually want or we leave. This is no different than any other MMO... so far so good for me.
PS... my guild is growing, not losing members. Even though we're not strictly PVP-oriented, we had almost 2 full raid groups at a scheduled PVP event last weekend. This is the most we've ever had.
Yes but like I told you Souless DAOC games of king of the hill wont attract any more player base than GW2 or DAOC did and thats not a lot. A niche market like this sholdnt have been wasted on such a marketable IP. You just end up with the same people doing the same things, the wow players will just get bored and go back.
Comments
I normally see a 50% retention rate in new MMO's so the OP's 74% is pretty good.
The fact that you have a 500 player guild is another issue altogether and probably also contributes to players not sticking around. People like to be recognized names and not just bodies. That's just a personal opinion of mine though and probably doesn't fit well in MMO's where numbers are important.
Lol i remember.
The game was nerver epic you just got involved with the hype.
That 74% is kind of a skewed number since it is not a typical guild like other MMO's. It is a trading guild and being a part these type of guilds are a must in ESO if you want to have any shot at a semblance of an economy. Because if this, people aren't going to leave nor are they going to a be a tight knit community with personal accolades and recognition since the guilds are really there for a purpose and not a community. Had this been a normal guild the numbers would not have been nearly that high and the turnover rate would have been more severe. As it stands with no auction house or system like in the Final Fantasies, you are required to join one. I was a part of a guild that was not a trading guild and instead focused on PVE and PvP and we were only about 60+. Many of our members also were a part of trading guilds that they really didn't associate with other than to conduct business and I know that there was a sharp decline when the first month ended and I assure you it wasn't 74% retention.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
So the probabilty of that 26% having actually left the game is higher than using the retention of a relatively small guild as a guide to estimate the retention of the game. If what you say is true, that being a part of a trading guild is a must, that is.
It's also possible that people who are a member of a trading guild, are more invested in the game, than your average player.
Either way, it's better than what I'd have guessed.
Yeh a 500 member trade guild is not really a good measure of game population. Specially in a mega server environment. If the game was broken down into individual servers then maybe. However, chances are most of those trade guild members are only members because they need a place to hock and buy goods since there is no AH and not for a common pool of like minded players to go adventuring with. Luckily ZOS allows membership into many guilds. Imagine if you could only be a member of one guild in a game with no AH and no player vendor stands? At least they alleviated bad game design of no AH/No player vendor stands with multiple guild membership. The funny thing is I wonder how much overlap there is with multiple trade guild members being members across many of the same other trade guilds and thus defeating the purpose of multiple membership in the first place.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
+1
As for the numbers lets not get carried away here folks. Extrapolating game wide retention from 1 guild ... seriously.
May as well use Iselin's guild and say the game is growing - except we know that people move around looking for active guilds so maybe not!
And not everyone will join a trading guild on day 1 - I know I am not the only person who focuses on levelling first (using just drops) and on "other stuff" later.
However the fact that there were inactive levels 7-14 removed doesn't, imo, mean that the accounts didn't have higher level characters as well. Maybe hit 50 in a few days on a different character. As Iselin says people level at different speeds. The alternative suggests an awful lot of people really, really didn't like the game - or got refunds ... I don't think it unreasonable to assume they levelled fast on different character(s).
Anyway what about the OPs other two guilds ...
It's not about the guild, only that using a guilds numbers to come up with a % of retention is going to be skewed when the guild is a necessity just to partake in an important function of the game. I wasn't saying using a smaller guild to obtain a retention rate was a better option at all, only that it will paint a very different picture.
And no it is not really about people being more invested in the game just because they are a part of a trade guild. An account can be in 5 different guilds at the same time and joining a trading guild is a necessity and not done to form comradery. I was a part of a trading guild for the sole purpose of having some place to sell the loads of junk that was clogging my inventory and nothing more and judging from the lack of community communication, I can say that many others who were members of the trading guild felt the same way. And what I say is true and it is a must, unless you want to always be overrun with clutter and like NPC selling every item. The only other option would be to spend all your time spamming chat to sell your junk, but that is exactly why these types of guilds were created in the first place.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
TY, at least somebody gets it!!
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
The main reason I quit playing was how much trouble I was having playing with my friends. I really hate all the phasing. Having to switch the phase to your group mates, and just trying to quest together was pretty hard for me. I was probably doing something wrong, but I shouldn't have to work so hard to group up and play with friends on my friends list. The only thing that I didn't have issues with grouping was PvP.
I didn't feel paying $15 a month for a solo adventure was worth it.
When you read some of the responses to threads like this you would think that the people still playing are never going to leave. As if people didn't buy 3+ month sub packages from the get go.
Hate to break it to some of you, but an MMO doesn't just survive on retention, it has to keep replacing those that quit after a few months. Considering all the negativity and the fact everyone keeps pointing out the same reasons for quitting, you can bet ESO is not attracting many new players.
If the OP thinks that ESO will end up with 7.5 million subs with the amount of negativity and complaints the game gets (even he's pointing out what a lot of other people have pointed out as flaws and reasons for quitting) then Wildstar will be the first 25 million sub mmo considering its getting practically no negativity.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
These things still aren't fixed? What!??!? What is the time frame for that to be fixed? I alone didn't play past beta for this exact reason. I think others that didn't get to experience it in beta are understanding how unfriendly this issue is. Therein why some of the retention rate is dropping
Defend it all you want but this issue is not acceptable one bit!!!
Z.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I know for me the main reason I'm unsubbing was when i found out the truth on what the VR content really was,which for me had nothing to do with how challenging it was.I absolutely refuse to go into enemy faction zones redoing 1-50 content quests for that enemy faction.to make matters worse they list this so called content on the website as if it's some kind of special end game content for soloing or duo.If and when they add more alternatives to leveling from VR1-10 i may come back.Did actually enjoy the game,even tho it's painfully obvious that it should have never been released when it was.
Not how ESO works. Guilds are account based, all your alts are in the same guild. So 130 players is 130 accounts, not toons.
Too bad it took like 5 patches, but in it's current state, ESO is launch acceptable.
I dont think so....
ESO feels and plays like a series of Novels..
Where Wildstar feels like a commicbook...
Never have there been two Themepark games more different..
But then, you can enjoy both at the same time, they compliment eachother very well, one for when you want to take it easy, and the other for when you want to fully engage yourself in the action.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
so they fixed the group phasing then? if not then , NOPE!
Wildstar may have the WoW stylized art but the game is designed for teaming and has more elder game then any MMO I have seen in 15 years. Sad thing is, there was a good chance I would have bought ESO as I was a beta tester. The problems they have now with teaming was something beta testers kept telling them. I know I posted on the subject. Solo content in a MMO is good, but even solo content should have the option of playing with a friend as this is a MMO, or is it? I really hope ZM takes another look at how their content plays out with people making teams and duos. My wife and I went bonkers trying to make this game work for us. Been playing TES games since I was a kid and dreaming of a TES MMO for a long time. So I found this crushing.
I left in this range but not for the reasons you assume. I just wasn't enjoying it, I had all 4 classes to this level range but still didn't find myself enjoying the game. When I was at the point of forcing myself to log on and play I knew I wasn't going to stick it out. If you don't find a game fun why bother playing it. You're probably going to say that I should have tried dungeons, these were fun 5 years ago but they all have the same theme - kill trash, kill mini-boss, kill more trash... kill big boss at the end. This is repetitive and has been done too many times.
Until a developer breaks the mold and comes up with something new I will be taking a break from MMOs.
I left because the game is static, un-dynamic, and boring. For instance: Nothing in the world changes or is affected by your actions. Burn some boats? A little fire will appear on their decks and then.....that's it. they don't sink or break apart or anything...static, boring, old!
I became a vampire, it seemed really cool! Maybe I can immerse myself in this role...I can stalk people and NPCs will hate me because I am essentially a monster...nope! Absolutely no change to my environment or consequences...my stats are slightly affected based on if I feed, and my face starts to look orcish...that's it...hell, I can walk around at full noon without any consequences right into the fucking mayor's office.
These are just 2 examples...petty maybe, but they expose the underlying problem of ESO for me: it's boring, static, and despite the pretty particle effects it plays like it's just old!
I really wanted to put my roots down and stick with a new MMO for years like I did with a few in the past. That may still happen; it just won't happen for me with ESO.
Yes but like I told you Souless DAOC games of king of the hill wont attract any more player base than GW2 or DAOC did and thats not a lot. A niche market like this sholdnt have been wasted on such a marketable IP. You just end up with the same people doing the same things, the wow players will just get bored and go back.