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Do you believe in a God
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Why did Israel march around the walls of Jericho 7 times and not once? Why did Christ spend 3 days in hell and not 5 minutes?
There are many things that God does for the most part, you have no idea the reason behind it. It may not make sense to many people, but, for the most part, infinite doesn't either.
But I'll be sure to ask God all these questions in a couple thousand years.
You're absolutely right I have no idea behind the reason behind it, that is why I asked you. Maybe I am a little child when asking "why?.. why?.. why?". But aren't you a little curious? Not just to question or contradict a piece of knowledge but just to know more (even if you might think they are trivial).
If the spritual universe is timeless then why would you ask God all these questions in a couple thousand years? Do you believe you will get that old in the physical universe? Or do you believe you will be reincarnated?
So even though time had no meaning, God felt compelled when he dictated the bible to split the whole creation thing up into days ??
And I make no sense ??
It easy to claim people arent making sense when the measure of sense your using is so elastic as to be changeable to suit your every whim. Since people who follow biblical textxs constantly interpret and re-interpret every syllable of the bible to suit their current position, Im not surprised you find no sense in constants. The mere notion of something being constant and measurable like a system of time must be almost mind boggling. Its far more convenient to just point to a definition that suits you based on the current situation.
I have read the book of Enoch, it makes about as much sense as the rest of that series of tomes. But then I guess being a non believer I cant understand it right ?? Considering many major religious scholars throughout the ages have debated whether the book of Enoch is even a text that actually predates the bible or a latter day forgery, Im actually surprised you put it forward as proof of anything. If anything it only shows that theological texts make it up as they go along because if the book does indeed pre-date the bible why didnt God just tell Enoch the bible ? If it doesnt predate the bible then its nothing more than another attempt to go back and do some editing to atempt to answer the difficult questions of logic posed by people even less intelligent than me (hard to imagine I know) because its mere existance proves that theologians have no problem re-writing history to suit themselves AGAIN!
You know you cant have that argument both ways though. Either the bible was written in such a fashion as people were meant to be able to understand it in order to follow it... or it wasnt... so which is it ?
No Im talking about the Calander of religious events as proposed by St Augustine, perhaps you need to do some reading... Why would I offer up a Roman time scale to prove any points when its clear from their beleifs in multiple gods that they had about as much idea of reality as most faith based followers.
You might find some of this good reading if your genuinely interested in debates and self examination.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/main.htm
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Razorback
Not to mention the fact that an omnipotent being would have no need for or concept of time. Then throw in that the Augustine calander wasnt developed till thousands of years after the "alleged event" so there is no definition of a "day" that would have any meaning. But I guess the author of the bible was trying to keep it simple.
1. It was created in the physical universe. A plane where time was created, and exists. In the spiritual universe, there is no time. So though you have a point, when you think of it, you make no sense.
Ummm.... im not sure THAT made a lot of sense.
i wholeheartedly agree with your statements midnight.
Originally posted by Razorback
Not to mention the fact that an omnipotent being would have no need for or concept of time. Then throw in that the Augustine calander wasnt developed till thousands of years after the "alleged event" so there is no definition of a "day" that would have any meaning. But I guess the author of the bible was trying to keep it simple.
1. It was created in the physical universe. A plane where time was created, and exists. In the spiritual universe, there is no time. So though you have a point, when you think of it, you make no sense.
Ummm.... im not sure THAT made a lot of sense.
Thats because it didnt.... welcome to the world of "faith" where anything is possible if you just have enough imagination.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
God all these questions in a couple thousand years?
Do you really think its going to be in a couple thousand years. I can tell you(well i'm almost positive) that worlds going to end in at least 100 yrs. I personally think we gots 20 more years untill Jesus returns. And some people even say 5. But who knows no one knows except for God. GET READY NO TIME LEFT.
Marketh you pick a date and I will bet you everything I own and will ever own that on that date the only thing that will happen is you will pay up and I will be richer. PM me and I will give you all my details and send you a written agreement. You just pick the date..... I tell you what I will even make it easy on you... I will give you 12 months either side of you date.... Id like to give you 50 years either side.. but hey Id like to get all your worldly possesions ASAP so I can start enjoying them as you clearly are not.
The "end of the world is nigh" has been put about since as soon as man developed language constant and complex enough to form the premise..... yet YOU are suddenly right about it ??
I seem to recall most major religions said Y2K was the end of the world, I notice they all went pretty quiet about it afterwards.
If I was you man I would concern myself with enjoying the life you have in front of you, death will come soon enough, that much you can be sure of!
Save the predictions of global catastrophe for the folks occupying the padded cells of this world, both mental and physical.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
Well to my knowledge the millenium hasn't occured yet.
So maybe I should of said about 1000-1100.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Alderon your abuse of the English language to death is almost complete.
You say I blindlessly debunk you ? Blindlessly ? so that means I see what Im doing right ? Yes I do! (I think the blindly is the word you were struggling for)
You say we live by the Julian Calander yet you say we have not yet reached the Millenium ?? Again you cant have it both ways, you need to adopt a consistent position in order to form an argument.
You seriously need to make up your mind what set of languages and values you want to use to argue with.
This flitting from one system of speach and time to another to desperately try and support the entirely fictional realm you defend is just making you sound completely silly. The irrational double speak you rely on to make your points might work well against children and people with no common sense, Im afraid it wont work with me.
Alderon (and anyone else who interested) I am ready... almost desperate to believe in a wider universe of spiritual possibilities. But unlike many people in the world I am unable to abandon logic and reason and just follow something because someone or some book says its a good idea. Nothing I have ever read (and I read widely), nothing anyone has ever said to me (including you) has made me think I am listening to anything except another human's fantasy about how we all got here and whats behind it.
You have not uttered a single word I have not heard before, most of the arguments you have used I have listened to, expressed infinitely more elloquintlly and well constructed than you have made them. I have read every text you have referenced and more. None of it is anything beyond human construction and fantastic unsubstantiated opinion. It is no more based in fact than the Lord of the Rings or any other popular fiction.
If you have glanced at the "extra terrestrial" thread, you will see that I strongly believe in the possibility of other life in the universe. This is because I have heard rational, believable, well constructed arguments supporting the notion. Arguments based on factual systems such as modern mathmatics, formulea that be constructed an understood by anyone. No tricks, no double meanings. you look at the numbers and from them you can form an opinion. The opinion I formed could easily be 100% wrong, but it is an opinion that can be tested mathmatically, thats the kind of thing that impresses me, not hocus pocus and the traditions of unsubstantiated stories from ancient goat herders.
Come up with one of those and I will convert on the spot, fail to and I will continue to assume you have no more basis for your beliefs than anyone else I have spoken to or read about. A bunch of old men running about in flowing purple and white robes chanting and waving smoke balls does not convince me, even though it may convince others.
You like many others need desperately to be able to separate the things you know from the things you believe. Like many others you seem completely unable to make that mental leap. You confuse things you know with things you believe and it leads you to the mistaken belief that you will convince other intelligent people with your hollow opinions.
Sit down with a piece of paper and a pen. Rule the paper into 2 columns. At the top of one column write "What I know" (being things you have hard evidence of, hard evidence is not writings from an old book). In the other column write "what I believe". Then list the things you have put forward in this thread as facts in the appropriate columns. From what I have seen so far, if you do it properly, your knowledge column will contain your MMORPG user ID only, the rest will fall under beliefs.
Get the picture !
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Sorry, my fellow republicians , but I feel a disturbance in the force, and it says God doesnt exist.
You have to choose: Believe in Science (facts) or in religion (fairy tales). Its up to you.
I respect religion as a culture, not as an ideology to die for.
Very well said. This is basically my philosophy too.
I fully respect the rights of others to believe what they like. When I have it put to me that these beliefs form part of a reality, I feel compelled to say "ok prove it". In my 39 extremely short years on the planet I have searched far and wide for anyone or anything that can convince me that the worlds population of religious peoples of any faith are NOT suffering a collective delusion.
So far I have seen and heard nothing.
I would REALLY like to believe that there is a God of some description, it would make the world an even more fascinating place than (for me) it already is. But I could just as easily believe in Elves, Orcs, Trolls or Fairys if I chose to. What I choose to do is form my beliefs around probabilities. Those probabilities need to be at least in the realm of the probable, not the fantastic to get me interested.
There is absolutely no need to believe otherwise.
For anyone who falls into the "I believe in God just in case camp" read this.
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html#pascal
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I do not believe in a God because I do not like when something can influence your acts except for you. But I neutrally concern to people who believe in a God.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Not trying to incite another arguement, but remember science is not fact it is theory just like religion
you can't prove either right or wrong
so saying science is fact and religion is fairy tales is rather presumtuous
You might say that science makes more sense to you than religion does, that would be more accurate
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Not trying to incite another arguement, but remember science is not fact it is theory just like religion
you can't prove either right or wrong
so saying science is fact and religion is fairy tales is rather presumtuous
You might say that science makes more sense to you than religion does, that would be more accurate
Yup like I said... arguments need to be at least in the realms of the probable... thats what science generally does, nothing more..
I can no more prove God does not exist than Alderon can prove he does...
The main and crtitical difference is that I am not claiming he does not exist in fact I remain open to the possibility. Alderon is claiming not only that he does exist but that the majority of the bible is fact. The burden of proof lies squarely with the person making the claims in this and every other case.
That proof is still in the mail awaiting delivery, if and when it arrives, I doubt Alderon will be the messenger.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Yes i believe in God...
dont wish that it against to the will of God...thats not an attitude of a true christian...
Give place the wrath of God...
In Mateo 5:44 It says....... But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Rom 12:19 Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord.
God is prolife...Everyone has a chance to be save...
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Peace!!!
ok since the beginning of time people have felt the need to belief in something greater then themselves. if you look at any religion you will see that they have a flood story. a story that explains that everything was destroyed by a flood and people survived and saved every animal.
i will tell you right now i am a strong believer in God. wait let me rephrase that. i dont believe in gods i believe in the one God, the only only God, the one that created us, saved us, and looks out for us.
if you are do not believe in God then where do you think we came from. do u really belief we came from sludge. well i have some scientific proof that evolution is false. first of all the chances of evolution being correct is almost nil. let me put it into perspective. if you where to take 1000 pieces of paper and number them 1-1000. if u put them so not one of them is next to them in numerical order. then you throw them in a empty room. for evolution to be correct all the papers would have to end up in a perfect pile in numerical order.
thats all for now may be back later
/breaks silence
How sad that you'll live and die completely oblivious to the simple meaning of the term "natural selection".
You're living proof that the most easy to understand concepts and ideas might as well be written in an alien language when read by the determinedly ignorant.
Don't take it personally though. I blame the education system.
tell me one thing. why do you find it so hard to understand that there is someone who has more control then you can ever hope for. why dont you belief in God. is it because you are scared, scared that you cant control what happens?
I will ask you agian why is it that so many cannot handle the the truth. the truth that they are not in control. the truth that they cannot do anything right without him. that they are condemned.
"Then i saw the great white throne and him wwho was seated on it. Earth and sky fled form his presence. and there was no place for them. and i saw the dead, great and small, stanking before the throne, the books where opened. Another book was opened, which was the book of life. the dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and daeth and hades' gave up the dead that where in them. and each person was judged according to what he had done. then death and hades' were thrown into the lake of fire. the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found int the book of life he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Revelatoins 20:11-15
does that not have any meaning to you. well it should if it doesnt then you are probably not in the book of life. all who do not believe are not in the book of life witch mean that they will be thrown into the lake of fire, the second death, hell.
Tell me one thing: why do you find it so hard to understand that there isn't someone who has more control than you can ever hope for? Why do you believe in God? Is it because you are scared- scared that you can control what happens?
I ask you again- why is it that so many cannot handle the truth- the truth that they are in control. The truth that they can do anything without him, her, or it. That they aren't condemned.
I find it hilarious that people can be so ignorant and arrogant.
There is no absolute right and/ or wrong. Our reality is nothing more than electronic connections in our brains- what we hear, feel, taste, smell, and see.
The universe does not care whether or not anything occurs.
So your saying that what happens happens.
Dose'nt it seem odd how humans came about. Its really hard to believe that we all evolved from some little bacteria, single cell organism. If we did evolve from apes then why are we not finding other half humans half apes? Tell me why? Why were we so lucky? You would think that there would be some apes still evolving from apes to humans and we would fined them.
And me not being incontrol of what happens, I believe that God lets all humans decided their own fate. He made us and gave us a few rules, and wants us to abide by them as best as we can. I control my desteny as much as you control yours.
THEMANMAN or Doctor WHo