Originally posted by korent1991 and that's good because if they don't like how hard the game is then the game is NOT for them... I'm really sick and tired of hearing how every game should be made for everyone.
...how exactly would it be sickening you to ignore "Normal" difficulty dungeons and running them on "Hard" or "Nightmare" mode instead?
I don't understand why this is an issue or ever was an issue.
Every other genre offers a difficulty slider bar so you can adjust appropriately, why MMOs don't is a mystery. Leave normal and veteran dungeons alone and add an easy option. Give weaker loot for the weaker difficulty.
Bad players don't want good loot or elite titles. They just want character advancement and goals like everyone else. +1 stat point will be enough to get them to do dungeons and stick around.
Originally posted by lugal Lol! Game to hard for ya? Unable to join a guild? Nerf game as a solution. Why don't you try to fix things from your end, instead of ruining the game for others just to suit yourself.
I know reading is hard, but next time you post, you should REALLY give it a shot.
I wasn't complaining about the difficulty on a personal level, I was complaining about how the difficulty effects the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE. As in everyone who doesn't enjoy the increased difficulty (when compared to most other modern MMO's). I like it, but here's the thing, most others don't. And they will not stick around.
and that's good because if they don't like how hard the game is then the game is NOT for them... I'm really sick and tired of hearing how every game should be made for everyone.
So a game shouldn't be made for everyone, it should be made for you?
How about a game that caters for all tastes because the content is wide and varied at end-game?
I'm currently leveling in Wildstar as I'm not hardcore or a brilliant player. Do Carbine want me to quit when I get to the dungeons and I find them requiring more time and effort than I have? Shall I go back to WoW? Is that what they want from us casuals, to leave at end-game?
Would be a shame as I love Wildstar so far, it looks great, plays great and I was hoping for it to be my main MMO - but if I'm not going to like the end game because it should all be hardcore, then that'll be my subs lost (and how many others who are enjoying it so far?)
Is that good business? No - and if Carbine act with the same attitude as you, the game will just be a tiny niche F2P game inside 6 months because the casuals (probably 80%+ of the players) will have left.
I don't understand why this is an issue or ever was an issue.
Every other genre offers a difficulty slider bar so you can adjust appropriately, why MMOs don't is a mystery. Leave normal and veteran dungeons alone and add an easy option. Give weaker loot for the weaker difficulty.
Bad players don't want good loot or elite titles. They just want character advancement and goals like everyone else. +1 stat point will be enough to get them to do dungeons and stick around.
This. Don't alientate any players, just make sure there is something for everyone, keeps the subs coming in and keep on developing a great game.
The problem is that everything you have said above, just makes terrible business sense and will affect profits.
You are calling the causal players "whiners" for more or less being casual and wanting 'easier' content. Is that any less than if I were to call hardcore players 'whiners' for wanting more difficult content?
If we assume that the casual gamers make up a lot more of the population than the hardcore gamers, then you'll end up with a much smaller pool of players to play your game, and even some of those will leave due to natural wasteage.
Why do you think WoW keeps millions of subscribers? Because they cater for ALL types of players. You can have a game that people of all levels can play, happily together. And all those people can still improve and move up the ladder of difficulty.
Instead of nerfing your dungeons, how about just adding new dungeons with 'easier' content for the casuals? You never know, they might complete it, learn to play 'better' and more up towards the more difficult stuff. That's called progression and it keeps people interested.
If you start out with everthing hardcore, then where do you go from there? Mega hardcore, appealing to 0.05% of the population?
Go that route and there won't be enough subscribers to pay for any of your new content. You know, hardcore players can still be happy, surely, even if there are dungeons and content for casuals? As a casual, I want to enjoy Wildstar too.
I have heard that very argument 1000s of times on this forums. And it's all fine and dandy till you see the solid data. Because, as far as I see it's quite the opposite.
In the last 10 years, all mainstream MMOs have been casual easy-mode themeparks. SO casual, solo-oriented and easy that I question that the label "MMORPG" is the most appropiate - for me, they are nothing but crappy although glorified single games with a chat attached to them and some Coop. content tacked on them. Anyway, my point is that all of them have flopped, closed down and have had to change their initial business model to stay financially competitive. I repeat: All of them.
One glorius exception is Guild Wars 2: The only one who had a clarity of vision and didn't bullshit its potential customers. From its beginnings it was conceived as a casual friendly game and, in fact, it has become a casual masterpiece. The other exception is, of course, the one who changed the market: WoW. And even WoW is in clear decline.
Funny enough, the only MMORPG that has an estable subsciption-based playerbase is EVE. Not only that, It's even grown in the last years. 11 years with subs-based business model and counting. Not bad from a sandbox game that is everything but casual. Not to mention the massive cult that games like UO and Everquest still have on the internet - not sure about EQ, but the former it's still a subs based game, after 16 years. Not bad for a not-casual game, huh?
Then, I strongly recommend you to take a look to this Guardian's article. It's about CCP's mismanagement of World of Darkness. It provides though with great insight about the miseries and poor estate of this industry - take a look at the "Industry closed its eyes" section. Let me post some pearls for you:
"A lot of it is just down to the games industry not functioning as well as it should, on outdated production methods and sky high budgets. In the US, for example, video game company layoffs are twice the national average. “GameJobWatch tracked 73 layoffs in the first ten months of 2013, totalling more than 3400 jobs lost, not including studios among those 73 that they didn't have a head count for. That's almost two studios with layoffs each week,"
"When experienced people leave the industry entirely, we lose institutional memory. Our games stagnate. I think AAA is in extended death throes. I think it's going to look like the comics industry in a few years: a couple of huge corporations that dominate the mainstream attention, and then an enormous number of very small indies. Actually, it looks like that today.”
Well, well, it doesn't look too good for an industry that has been focusing on the easy and the casual for the last decade, does it? The conclusion is clear for me:
- The videogame public (I mean the ones who really like and value games, not some sort of pseudo interactive movies) are tired of being treated like assholes and look for alternatives.
- The devs get tired of the bad business practices of the corporations, of being directed by finance consultants and marketing smartasses and found their own studios, to provide the public from the first point.
- The casuals stay with the decadent corporations and their casual games, that more than games are bloody interactive movies.
Oh yes, sometimes capitalism is a beautiful thing, isn't it?
Bottom line and most honest piece of business advise I can give: Don't try to cater to everyone. When you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody at all. Specialization and good knowledge of your market is key. If you want to stay in business for the long run and with job tranquility, try to keep the customers that are keen and apt to stay for the long run and prioritize these over the casuals.
Cheers. (Btw, I hope Wildstar makes it as one of the most fullfilling themeparks on the market).
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
I don't understand why this is an issue or ever was an issue.
Every other genre offers a difficulty slider bar so you can adjust appropriately, why MMOs don't is a mystery. Leave normal and veteran dungeons alone and add an easy option. Give weaker loot for the weaker difficulty.
Bad players don't want good loot or elite titles. They just want character advancement and goals like everyone else. +1 stat point will be enough to get them to do dungeons and stick around.
This. Don't alientate any players, just make sure there is something for everyone, keeps the subs coming in and keep on developing a great game.
That's the thing though, most mmo posters are not very logical. As soon as wildstar adds any content labeled as "easy", the entire game will get labeled by the "leet" drones that wildstar is "super easy now", "a former shell of itself" etc etc, even if all the hardcore content remains. The same thing happened with wow....wows heroic raids are vastly harder than they have ever been, but because lfr exists, the avg "leet wannabe" will tell you that wow raiding is easymode now. Carbine knows this, therefore won't change a thing.
Originally posted by Akerbeltz I have heard that very argument 1000s of times on this forums. And it's all fine and dandy till you see the solid data. Because, as far as I see it's quite the opposite. In the last 10 years, all mainstream MMOs have been casual easy-mode themeparks. SO casual, solo-oriented and easy that I question that the label "MMORPG" is the most appropiate - for me, they are nothing but crappy although glorified single games with a chat attached to them and some Coop. content tacked on them. Anyway, my point is that all of them have flopped, closed down and have had to change their initial business model to stay financially competitive. I repeat: All of them.
Erm...that is what you call "solid data" - your arbitrary qualifiers for sucessful product?
I like the idea of a difficulty slider. Perhaps a Easy mode where you just get the EXP. Normal mode for increased EXP + Loot. Then veteran modes for level 50 raid preparation.
I also think there needs to be a better tutorial system. Perhaps even a "solo" tutorial dungeon or something that teaches players about the telegraphs, and interrupt armor/moments of opportunity.
WoW and SWTOR both have scaling difficulty in their dungeons, with entrance requirements that rely on gear stats.
This system seems to have worked.
Maybe WS can adopt something similar, rather than just nerf dungeons across the board.
When we were kids and they had that line before you could get on a park ride, "You must be this tall to ride this ride". Well thats what Carbine has gone with. Gear up, use the right spec (their system makes that easy) and learn the dungeon because, this is what end game looks like. Get ready its more of this. IMO this is awesome. No longer do people get to end game and say what the heck is this? This is not the game I have been playing.
I like the idea of a difficulty slider. Perhaps a Easy mode where you just get the EXP. Normal mode for increased EXP + Loot. Then veteran modes for level 50 raid preparation.
I also think there needs to be a better tutorial system. Perhaps even a "solo" tutorial dungeon or something that teaches players about the telegraphs, and interrupt armor/moments of opportunity.
The moment an "easy" version of something is introduced, regardless if the hard version remains intact, said activity will be labled as "easy mode" by the uneducated masses.
WoW went from "hardmode only" raids in vanilla/BC, to having LFR (very easy), Flex (easy/medium), Normal (medium/hard), Heoric (very hard). WoW's last handfull of heoric tiers are harder than anything WoW has ever had in vanilla or BC, yet the avg MMORPG.com poster will swear to you that WoW raiding is easymode and got "dumbed down". Less than 1% of WoWs playerbase clears heroic tiers pre nerf, and takes world first guilds months of raiding 16 hours a day to clear now a days, yet everyone and their mothers on this site claim they clear heroic raids like its nothing when presented with this point. Its dumb, but Carbine knows this, so I highly doubt they will do that.
I have more faith in people, so I believe the greater player base will adapt to the current level of difficulty, and if some can't or won't, moving on to a new game more to their liking would be best for all parties concerned.
WS should stay true to its niche, will likely make the game viable over the long haul.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Clearly the flaw with MMOs these days is that they attempt to provide some sort of adversity to overcome.
And just like the elevator boss... the first challenge they face, making new friends in game to play with, is met with jovial utter failure. Hello LFG tool... please give me a group of competent players that I don't care to interact with in any way so that I may acquire some loot at their expense. If they should fail me in any way, I will dismiss them from my presence and acquire some new random players to do my bidding.
You want to play the game as it was originally intended, you will need to find some real friends. The game may allow you to play with strangers, but the experience is far far far from what it could be. But I suppose, no one really ever wants what they paid for... just a watered down facsimile.
Hence why you are never truly at home in MMO these days... you can't call a bunch of strangers home.
The game has been out 1-2 weeks. You are expecting people to know there class & role already & in there first dungeon. All of this after most of the people that play MMO's these days are used to being handed everything to them on a platter......
Your responce." F" IT make it easy cause i want my shinys and its everyone else.
My responce. "Your just going to have to work harder, and. AND actually talk to people *GASPS* i know right. Your going to have to talk to people in a MMO."
Reading the replies to this post makes me wonder if people are actually capable of comprehending written English. The OP was referring to peoples mindset and approach regarding Wildstar's PvE content. It has very little to do with knowing their class and role or not. I only did 2 pug runs so far and my tale is the same as the OP's. You set a killing order, they ignore it. You tell them to kill that shaman first, they ignore you. You tell them that this guys rejuvenation spell must me interrupted ASAP, they tell you to sod off and do it yourself because they dish out more dps than you do (a spellslinger to me).
so let's stop creating tests that will allow students to learn something
You learn nothing from tests...apart from learning how to do tests. Not to say, score results is entirely different matter.
If you are capable of such fallacies, you better not lecture other people and question their intelligence.
Oh really? Maybe you shouldn't question other peoples knowledge without checking out your "facts" first.
Have you ever heard of the research journal Science? Well, they did a study about exactly this topic and found that students actually learned more from testing than from studying. Isn't that intriguing? Maybe you should think about what you are saying before you try to pass your random opinions off as facts while attempting to be insulting.
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
This games dungeon difficulty is perfect, having a blast! Nothing needs changing. No nerfing!!!
You need to sort thigns your end OP, go make some friends, find reliable dungeons partners, group with someone! You know! Be freaking social in the MMO you're playing.
Originally posted by Deadlyne Oh really? Maybe you shouldn't question other peoples knowledge without checking out your "facts" first.Have you ever heard of the research journal Science? Well, they did a study about exactly this topic and found that students actually learned more from testing than from studying. Isn't that intriguing? Maybe you should think about what you are saying before you try to pass your random opinions off as facts while attempting to be insulting.
The game has been out 1-2 weeks. You are expecting people to know there class & role already & in there first dungeon. All of this after most of the people that play MMO's these days are used to being handed everything to them on a platter......
Your responce." F" IT make it easy cause i want my shinys and its everyone else.
My responce. "Your just going to have to work harder, and. AND actually talk to people *GASPS* i know right. Your going to have to talk to people in a MMO."
Reading the replies to this post makes me wonder if people are actually capable of comprehending written English. The OP was referring to peoples mindset and approach regarding Wildstar's PvE content. It has very little to do with knowing their class and role or not. I only did 2 pug runs so far and my tale is the same as the OP's. You set a killing order, they ignore it. You tell them to kill that shaman first, they ignore you. You tell them that this guys rejuvenation spell must me interrupted ASAP, they tell you to sod off and do it yourself because they dish out more dps than you do (a spellslinger to me).
I hope i'll never have to pug again.
lol, i find this helarious, because thats pretty much the same experiance i have on the 2nd pull of that dungeon every-single-time. Almost nobody understands the concept of inturrupt armor...they think its like wow or rift, in that 1 person can inturrupt....NOPE, in Wildstar, multiple ppl need to inturrupt to get rid of the inturrupt armor, THEN someone can inturrupt. Every inturrupt takes 3 diff players, the problem is, its hard to get 3 seperate DPS to actually do mechanics like that in a random pug.
You know what? All the people who hate the dungeons being hard might leave... big deal. Let them go.
"But wait! The game will become empty and fail!"
Maybe, but I doubt it. Every other MMO out there has gone down the nerf road to making things so easy you don't really have to pay attention to win. All but the top-tier raids in many games are enough of a joke that most people watch TV while they're running them. And in each of these easy-mode games' forums, there are tons of threads complaining about this.
If Wildstar keeps things challenging, the folks who want easy stuff will leave, and the folks on those easier games will wander over to check things out. I don't know what Carbine's target goal is for subscriptions, but I'm pretty sure there are enough people who like harder content to keep things running and pay to keep new content flowing.
If they want to introduce easy-mode content which gives correspondingly inferior rewards, go for it! I'm all for giving people a choice, but if you want to bling, you need to be good enough (and put in enough effort) to beat the hardest stuff. End of story.
I have heard that very argument 1000s of times on this forums. And it's all fine and dandy till you see the solid data. Because, as far as I see it's quite the opposite.
In the last 10 years, all mainstream MMOs have been casual easy-mode themeparks. SO casual, solo-oriented and easy that I question that the label "MMORPG" is the most appropiate - for me, they are nothing but crappy although glorified single games with a chat attached to them and some Coop. content tacked on them. Anyway, my point is that all of them have flopped, closed down and have had to change their initial business model to stay financially competitive. I repeat: All of them.
Erm...that is what you call "solid data" - your arbitrary qualifiers for sucessful product?
Arbitrary? There's nothing arbitrary. All mainstream casual MMOs released in the last 10 years have failed to meet expectations, thus having to change their business model in less than one year to cover costs - something that none of them had anticipated or announced initially. From WAR to STO, DCUO, AoC, Rift, SWTOR, TSW... That is solid data based on factual observation.
What is speculative and arbitrary is assuming that a game is gonna be financially successful a/o meet expectations because it caters to lowest common denominator among lumpheads.
By the way, it is nice that you ignore the rest of my post, especially the part about the poor state of your "casual friendly" industry, are those indicators arbitrary as well?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Oh really? Maybe you shouldn't question other peoples knowledge without checking out your "facts" first.
Have you ever heard of the research journal Science? Well, they did a study about exactly this topic and found that students actually learned more from testing than from studying. Isn't that intriguing? Maybe you should think about what you are saying before you try to pass your random opinions off as facts while attempting to be insulting.
Hey, now you tell me that those are subjective opinions.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
When GW2 came out, there was tons of complaining about dungeons being too hard. Now? Dungeons are routinely speed-run through by your average player, and I really don't think ANet toned them down.
It's a learning process, let it happen. The point of playing games is the experience, not the reward. If they dumb dungeons down to be so easy that you can do it blindfolded, then they kill the experience. Let people fail, let them learn, it will be fine.
Oh really? Maybe you shouldn't question other peoples knowledge without checking out your "facts" first.
Have you ever heard of the research journal Science? Well, they did a study about exactly this topic and found that students actually learned more from testing than from studying. Isn't that intriguing? Maybe you should think about what you are saying before you try to pass your random opinions off as facts while attempting to be insulting.
Comments
...how exactly would it be sickening you to ignore "Normal" difficulty dungeons and running them on "Hard" or "Nightmare" mode instead?
I don't understand why this is an issue or ever was an issue.
Every other genre offers a difficulty slider bar so you can adjust appropriately, why MMOs don't is a mystery. Leave normal and veteran dungeons alone and add an easy option. Give weaker loot for the weaker difficulty.
Bad players don't want good loot or elite titles. They just want character advancement and goals like everyone else. +1 stat point will be enough to get them to do dungeons and stick around.
So a game shouldn't be made for everyone, it should be made for you?
How about a game that caters for all tastes because the content is wide and varied at end-game?
I'm currently leveling in Wildstar as I'm not hardcore or a brilliant player. Do Carbine want me to quit when I get to the dungeons and I find them requiring more time and effort than I have? Shall I go back to WoW? Is that what they want from us casuals, to leave at end-game?
Would be a shame as I love Wildstar so far, it looks great, plays great and I was hoping for it to be my main MMO - but if I'm not going to like the end game because it should all be hardcore, then that'll be my subs lost (and how many others who are enjoying it so far?)
Is that good business? No - and if Carbine act with the same attitude as you, the game will just be a tiny niche F2P game inside 6 months because the casuals (probably 80%+ of the players) will have left.
This. Don't alientate any players, just make sure there is something for everyone, keeps the subs coming in and keep on developing a great game.
I have heard that very argument 1000s of times on this forums. And it's all fine and dandy till you see the solid data. Because, as far as I see it's quite the opposite.
In the last 10 years, all mainstream MMOs have been casual easy-mode themeparks. SO casual, solo-oriented and easy that I question that the label "MMORPG" is the most appropiate - for me, they are nothing but crappy although glorified single games with a chat attached to them and some Coop. content tacked on them. Anyway, my point is that all of them have flopped, closed down and have had to change their initial business model to stay financially competitive. I repeat: All of them.
One glorius exception is Guild Wars 2: The only one who had a clarity of vision and didn't bullshit its potential customers. From its beginnings it was conceived as a casual friendly game and, in fact, it has become a casual masterpiece. The other exception is, of course, the one who changed the market: WoW. And even WoW is in clear decline.
Funny enough, the only MMORPG that has an estable subsciption-based playerbase is EVE. Not only that, It's even grown in the last years. 11 years with subs-based business model and counting. Not bad from a sandbox game that is everything but casual. Not to mention the massive cult that games like UO and Everquest still have on the internet - not sure about EQ, but the former it's still a subs based game, after 16 years. Not bad for a not-casual game, huh?
Then, I strongly recommend you to take a look to this Guardian's article. It's about CCP's mismanagement of World of Darkness. It provides though with great insight about the miseries and poor estate of this industry - take a look at the "Industry closed its eyes" section. Let me post some pearls for you:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf
"A lot of it is just down to the games industry not functioning as well as it should, on outdated production methods and sky high budgets.
In the US, for example, video game company layoffs are twice the national average. “GameJobWatch tracked 73 layoffs in the first ten months of 2013, totalling more than 3400 jobs lost, not including studios among those 73 that they didn't have a head count for. That's almost two studios with layoffs each week,"
"When experienced people leave the industry entirely, we lose institutional memory. Our games stagnate. I think AAA is in extended death throes. I think it's going to look like the comics industry in a few years: a couple of huge corporations that dominate the mainstream attention, and then an enormous number of very small indies. Actually, it looks like that today.”
Well, well, it doesn't look too good for an industry that has been focusing on the easy and the casual for the last decade, does it? The conclusion is clear for me:
- The videogame public (I mean the ones who really like and value games, not some sort of pseudo interactive movies) are tired of being treated like assholes and look for alternatives.
- The devs get tired of the bad business practices of the corporations, of being directed by finance consultants and marketing smartasses and found their own studios, to provide the public from the first point.
- The casuals stay with the decadent corporations and their casual games, that more than games are bloody interactive movies.
Oh yes, sometimes capitalism is a beautiful thing, isn't it?
Bottom line and most honest piece of business advise I can give: Don't try to cater to everyone. When you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody at all. Specialization and good knowledge of your market is key. If you want to stay in business for the long run and with job tranquility, try to keep the customers that are keen and apt to stay for the long run and prioritize these over the casuals.
Cheers. (Btw, I hope Wildstar makes it as one of the most fullfilling themeparks on the market).
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
That's the thing though, most mmo posters are not very logical. As soon as wildstar adds any content labeled as "easy", the entire game will get labeled by the "leet" drones that wildstar is "super easy now", "a former shell of itself" etc etc, even if all the hardcore content remains. The same thing happened with wow....wows heroic raids are vastly harder than they have ever been, but because lfr exists, the avg "leet wannabe" will tell you that wow raiding is easymode now. Carbine knows this, therefore won't change a thing.Erm...that is what you call "solid data" - your arbitrary qualifiers for sucessful product?
Perhaps a 'nerf' isn't the best idea.
I like the idea of a difficulty slider. Perhaps a Easy mode where you just get the EXP. Normal mode for increased EXP + Loot. Then veteran modes for level 50 raid preparation.
I also think there needs to be a better tutorial system. Perhaps even a "solo" tutorial dungeon or something that teaches players about the telegraphs, and interrupt armor/moments of opportunity.
WoW and SWTOR both have scaling difficulty in their dungeons, with entrance requirements that rely on gear stats.
This system seems to have worked.
Maybe WS can adopt something similar, rather than just nerf dungeons across the board.
Nerf, nah. It is perfect how it is.
Maybe you should stop random queing for PUGS and get some real team mates that actually want to TRY and LEARN!
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
When we were kids and they had that line before you could get on a park ride, "You must be this tall to ride this ride". Well thats what Carbine has gone with. Gear up, use the right spec (their system makes that easy) and learn the dungeon because, this is what end game looks like. Get ready its more of this. IMO this is awesome. No longer do people get to end game and say what the heck is this? This is not the game I have been playing.
EPIC *** How to nerf dungeons right ** simulator v.10 ++ how to remove p2w on the same run v 0.9
instructions
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
The moment an "easy" version of something is introduced, regardless if the hard version remains intact, said activity will be labled as "easy mode" by the uneducated masses.
WoW went from "hardmode only" raids in vanilla/BC, to having LFR (very easy), Flex (easy/medium), Normal (medium/hard), Heoric (very hard). WoW's last handfull of heoric tiers are harder than anything WoW has ever had in vanilla or BC, yet the avg MMORPG.com poster will swear to you that WoW raiding is easymode and got "dumbed down". Less than 1% of WoWs playerbase clears heroic tiers pre nerf, and takes world first guilds months of raiding 16 hours a day to clear now a days, yet everyone and their mothers on this site claim they clear heroic raids like its nothing when presented with this point. Its dumb, but Carbine knows this, so I highly doubt they will do that.
I have more faith in people, so I believe the greater player base will adapt to the current level of difficulty, and if some can't or won't, moving on to a new game more to their liking would be best for all parties concerned.
WS should stay true to its niche, will likely make the game viable over the long haul.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Clearly the flaw with MMOs these days is that they attempt to provide some sort of adversity to overcome.
And just like the elevator boss... the first challenge they face, making new friends in game to play with, is met with jovial utter failure. Hello LFG tool... please give me a group of competent players that I don't care to interact with in any way so that I may acquire some loot at their expense. If they should fail me in any way, I will dismiss them from my presence and acquire some new random players to do my bidding.
You want to play the game as it was originally intended, you will need to find some real friends. The game may allow you to play with strangers, but the experience is far far far from what it could be. But I suppose, no one really ever wants what they paid for... just a watered down facsimile.
Hence why you are never truly at home in MMO these days... you can't call a bunch of strangers home.
Reading the replies to this post makes me wonder if people are actually capable of comprehending written English. The OP was referring to peoples mindset and approach regarding Wildstar's PvE content. It has very little to do with knowing their class and role or not. I only did 2 pug runs so far and my tale is the same as the OP's. You set a killing order, they ignore it. You tell them to kill that shaman first, they ignore you. You tell them that this guys rejuvenation spell must me interrupted ASAP, they tell you to sod off and do it yourself because they dish out more dps than you do (a spellslinger to me).
I hope i'll never have to pug again.
Oh really? Maybe you shouldn't question other peoples knowledge without checking out your "facts" first.
Have you ever heard of the research journal Science? Well, they did a study about exactly this topic and found that students actually learned more from testing than from studying. Isn't that intriguing? Maybe you should think about what you are saying before you try to pass your random opinions off as facts while attempting to be insulting.
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
This games dungeon difficulty is perfect, having a blast! Nothing needs changing. No nerfing!!!
You need to sort thigns your end OP, go make some friends, find reliable dungeons partners, group with someone! You know! Be freaking social in the MMO you're playing.
Link or it didn't happen...?
lol, i find this helarious, because thats pretty much the same experiance i have on the 2nd pull of that dungeon every-single-time. Almost nobody understands the concept of inturrupt armor...they think its like wow or rift, in that 1 person can inturrupt....NOPE, in Wildstar, multiple ppl need to inturrupt to get rid of the inturrupt armor, THEN someone can inturrupt. Every inturrupt takes 3 diff players, the problem is, its hard to get 3 seperate DPS to actually do mechanics like that in a random pug.
You know what? All the people who hate the dungeons being hard might leave... big deal. Let them go.
"But wait! The game will become empty and fail!"
Maybe, but I doubt it. Every other MMO out there has gone down the nerf road to making things so easy you don't really have to pay attention to win. All but the top-tier raids in many games are enough of a joke that most people watch TV while they're running them. And in each of these easy-mode games' forums, there are tons of threads complaining about this.
If Wildstar keeps things challenging, the folks who want easy stuff will leave, and the folks on those easier games will wander over to check things out. I don't know what Carbine's target goal is for subscriptions, but I'm pretty sure there are enough people who like harder content to keep things running and pay to keep new content flowing.
If they want to introduce easy-mode content which gives correspondingly inferior rewards, go for it! I'm all for giving people a choice, but if you want to bling, you need to be good enough (and put in enough effort) to beat the hardest stuff. End of story.
Arbitrary? There's nothing arbitrary. All mainstream casual MMOs released in the last 10 years have failed to meet expectations, thus having to change their business model in less than one year to cover costs - something that none of them had anticipated or announced initially. From WAR to STO, DCUO, AoC, Rift, SWTOR, TSW... That is solid data based on factual observation.
What is speculative and arbitrary is assuming that a game is gonna be financially successful a/o meet expectations because it caters to lowest common denominator among lumpheads.
By the way, it is nice that you ignore the rest of my post, especially the part about the poor state of your "casual friendly" industry, are those indicators arbitrary as well?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/science/21memory.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Hey, now you tell me that those are subjective opinions.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
When GW2 came out, there was tons of complaining about dungeons being too hard. Now? Dungeons are routinely speed-run through by your average player, and I really don't think ANet toned them down.
It's a learning process, let it happen. The point of playing games is the experience, not the reward. If they dumb dungeons down to be so easy that you can do it blindfolded, then they kill the experience. Let people fail, let them learn, it will be fine.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Thanks Akerbeltz for saving me a bit of time.
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.