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Poll: Wildstar P2W [pay to win]?
Kopogero
Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
Firstly, lemme just say I haven't tried/bought or intend to buy/play WildStar and now with the C.R.E.D.D sadly won't be playing if/when it goes F2P as well.
Wildstar is a themepark MMORPG where in game curreny does not play a significant role since players will obtain the loot from bosses and to upgrade it won't be as costly) BUT in a themepark MMORPG where "collecting" plays a big role and is another crucial endgame feature I'm certain ingame currency will be on high demand to craft/own rare/expensive mounts, house items and whatever else they got there for collecting.
Quoting from Massively "C.R.E.D.D. is an in-game item that adds 30 days of play time to an account. Players can purchase one for $19.99 to sell on the exchange or purchase one from another player for in-game gold. Basically, it allows you to buy more game time with in-game currency or to gain more in-game currency with your real-world dollars."
So, basically a player who chooses to spend more $ will be easily bulking up ingame currency, thus the economy won't be existant. The saddest part is that NCsoft, CCP (with their plex system, which I think is same) believe that this will benefit them since they will encourage the "whales" players who willing to spend more $ in their cash shop to earn as much ingame currency as they please will be a good move.
Good thing I dodged WildStar and now I'm just more happy with my decision. As time goes by at least if companies employ these "tactics" I would yet to see them SHOW they actually care others than themself and allow its customers/players a chance for them too to SELL their currency/items for $ in a safe environment.
This community is welcome to share their opinion on this matter (especially if they disagree).
Comments
You do not understand what pay to win means.
Please, enlighten me then but wait I think you'll say "pay to win" is when the player gains significant advantage against another through buying more powerful items. If that's the case I disagree with you. If the game design/endgame is based around COLLECTING and using expensive RARE items for show off or simply gaining some extra feat/achievement is considered Pay to Win in my book.
That dimishes the point of collecting in first play, thus making the experience unfun, unrewarding and pointless. Also every single item that will require ingame currency to obtain basically can be obtained easily for $ and it won't be just about obtaining items it will be about a lot of other things.
For instance I can easily bring most players I want in my guild for the right sum (which means bringing players from other guilds as well). You'll be surprised what players are willing to do for free currency.
It depend how important money is in the game.
For example money isn't "that" important in wow, since all the best item drop from raids.
But money is far more important in GW2, eventhough GW2 have no stats progression. But money is more important since you can buy "everything" with money.
And money is even more important when you can buy power in games like Atlantica Online.
Why would someone pay for C.R.E.D.D and sell it in a game where an economy wont exist? (your words). With no economy what use is the in game currency?
PLEX works because of EVEs robust economy.
P2W = buying ANY form of advantage
If gold has any value in this game (and there isnt other currencies, like in PoE for example), then yes, its pay to win.
This is not Pay to Win. It is Play to not Pay, Either way you would have to spend real $ for a Sub to a game that requires it. If you can play the game and have a chance, even if not right away, but at some point in your game play to pay for a 30 day sub with in game gold. I got to say, that's pretty damn cool. And that is not pay to win..
PTW is buying an item from said Game, that makes you superior in some way against your possible competition, or other players.
Aside from your argument. Play a game to have fun. Don't play something you wont have fun in, if you haven't given the game a chance, you wont even know. Thank you.
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Not p2w. The best items in the game do not use standard currency. They are either dropped bop, or bought bop with content specific currencies.
Standard currency can be used to buy crafting mats, housing items, mid range dropped and crafted gear etc. You would be lower in power than the veteran dungeon grinders, raiders, and dedicated pvpers. You would be on par with people who craft and solo quest/play.
In all seriousness, there is nothing P2W in Wildstar.
All this offers is a break to those who heavily support the game, as I can tell you now I doubt I would ever be able to play enough to earn enough gold for a CREDD.
What you are failing to understand is that the GOLD used in these TRANSACTIONS was acquired IN - GAME. It isn't like in GW2 where you trade GEMS, which is purchased with real money, then converted to GOLD.
The people spending THEIR GOLD, which was earned IN GAME is then recycled through the economy. It is different if people can straight out buy currency from thin air, but this is not the case.
All gold exchanged in game is brought into the economy in the game, whether it was earned off a mob, auctions, quests, etc...it was created by the game.
I hope this makes sense for you.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
By your logic every game could be considered pay to win....
When you get those gold farming spams you pay and you win to gain a certain amount of currency......
or lets say your just lazy and you don't wanna level....
you pay a powerlevel company to level you up to the cap?
Me personally I don't feel that any of these fall under the pay to win.
Sure you gain an advantage of not having to accumulating gold, levels, or items by using these services but, I don't consider it a pay to win advantage.
To me pay to win would be something that the company offers you to gain an incredible amount of power to your avatar or character making it virtually impossible to defeat in a pvp environment.
Just my humble opinion that is.
So by that standard all MMOS are P2W. If i buy something on AH on WoW and you cant cause you dont have money then im considered P2W? No sorry. Thats Not P2W. P2W is only if you can get an advantage that i cant even get unless i buy it with money as well.
It's right on the border. Any game that allows you to buy gold with real money in game is pushing the boundary, but I don't specifically think it's P2W so much as P2shortcut. GW2 used to be this way, but I'd say most people agree GW2 has become a P2W game at this point, so Carbine needs to be careful not to push it any farther than the C.R.E.D.D. system. Anything more than this or any more advantages given to someone willing to shell out extra money will cross that boundary.
Right now it's not P2W, but in the future, I do worry.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
You cannot buy gold with real money. The transaction does not work that way.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
That dimishes the point of collecting in first play, thus making the experience unfun, unrewarding and pointless. Also every single item that will require ingame currency to obtain basically can be obtained easily for $ and it won't be just about obtaining items it will be about a lot of other things.
For instance I can easily bring most players I want in my guild for the right sum (which means bringing players from other guilds as well). You'll be surprised what players are willing to do for free currency.
There is nothing you can buy with gold that gives you a massive advantage over other players in any play setting. So there is nothing you can buy with real money that gives you a massive advantage over other players.
Everything that is "special" requires actual play or alternate currency that is acquired only by play.
All these posts by people who admittedly don't even play. And then make assumptions based on incorrect information. You guys should listen to the people with first hand experience. Its not p2w. Best items aren't purchase with gold anyway. This game has three markets all independent from each other. There is a credd market, commodities market, and an auction house. Each one behaves differently and separate from each other.
Mmhmm.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Word. There's a lot of that going on around here, though.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Developers know themself what is pay to win or not, they also know pay to win with their own system (not with goldsellers) is a BIG cash income. What else they also know many players do not like if the game is p2w. Guess they balanced it out, you can buy some usefull stuff with alot of gold but nothing really relevant.
But one other point, why do you guys care much about pay 2 win, just play and "kill those players in pvp with style". I don't see the whole p2w discussion in pve content games anyways, who cares if they clear the doungen 1 second faster.
Mmhmm.
Its not a guarantee. You could spend 20 bucks on credd and end up selling it for pennies if the market is flooded. And creed for a month is five bucks more than a sub so I don't expect to see people throwing their money at it for tons of gold. Especially since all gold is going to get you is crafting mats, low end drops, housing decor, mounts etc. Nothing that gives you a power advantage over someone who does end game content.
Most I see here who've disagreed mainly disagree on the term "winning" and what it means for them. If the game has "economy" and intruduced currency to obtain items (like crafting mats, resources to craft, raise professions, enchant gear, collect items and so forth) or diminishing the failure of dying through repairing your items or anything else is indeed Pay to "WIN" in my opinion.
Sadly, those who will benefit the most from this will be again be those who will be exploiting to gain ingame currency in a fashion not meant to be obtained, also known as botting. At the end NCsoft has the ultimate power who to ban for such activity, but one thing is certain if WOW WOULD not stop botting (they could, but would not), you think NCsoft would?
The reality is the person who's willing to spend the most $ to obtain the ingame currency will have the absolute power and influence over a lot of things related to the game and in the same time diminish the accomplishes of others in the process.
And I agree with you, right now it is not P2W. It's the future and changes to this system that worries me, as it ended up hurting GW2 greatly having a similar system of gem to gold conversion. Now you can earn ten times the gold working a minimum wage job and converting gems to gold than just playing the game due to inflation a few years later.
They just need to watch it, balance the market, and don't throw the player base under the bus and the game will stay out of P2W territory.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Mmhmm.
Its not a guarantee. You could spend 20 bucks on credd and end up selling it for pennies if the market is flooded. And creed for a month is five bucks more than a sub so I don't expect to see people throwing their money at it for tons of gold. Especially since all gold is going to get you is crafting mats, low end drops, housing decor, mounts etc. Nothing that gives you a power advantage over someone who does end game content.
And I agree with you, right now it is not P2W. It's the future and changes to this system that worries me, as it ended up hurting GW2 greatly having a similar system of gem to gold conversion. Now you can earn ten times the gold working a minimum wage job and converting gems to gold than just playing the game due to inflation a few years later.
They just need to watch it, balance the market, and don't throw the player base under the bus and the game will stay out of P2W territory.
I agree. I think devs need to closely monitor an mmo economy. A good game economy usually needs constant tweaks. Hopefully they keep vibrant.