Originally posted by thecapitaineThe prime danger in creating a game targeted at former EQ players should already be fairly obvious. We now live in an age of made-to-order entertainment and that has just as strong an effect on the hardcore crowd. Anyone who creates a game like this to buck the trend had better create a picture-perfect product. Because it's inevitable that some portion of the target crowd will find some reason not to play it. We've already seen the old-school crowd turn their noses up at the two most prominent attempts to revive the ancient MMO masters via Pantheon and Shards Online. Vanguard is getting shut down after being virtually DOA since release, despite the raves about how many gameplay aspects the game got right. Just with the finicky playerbase that haunts these forums I'd say anybody's best bet at making a return on their hefty investment is to stick mostly with what works and find places to iterate to make their game distinct. A far better plan than seeking to revive a school of gaming with nothing but anecdotal evidence at present to suggest it will be successful.
As one of the EQ vets I can say there hasn't been anything to support in any of the games you mention except Vanguard. Vanguard only after many years of work. So much of it was unfinished and bug ridden for a long time. A shame because it could have been awesome. Now it is just to old graphically speaking to be of interest. We don't expect perfection but many are wanting old school mechanics with modern graphics. Not hard to understand. Just because Pantheon was another Brad McQuaid vision doesn't mean any of us who remember what He did to Vanguard are going to be interested in anything he is offering. Mismanagement, lying, and betrayal of his employees at Sigil. He is going to have to prove himself worthy before he gets a dime from this EQ vet and probably many others. As for Shards, I want modern graphics not something that looks like a browser game. There are plenty of games like you mention. Many are actually calling for a return to what the genre was. Hence all the posts about being tired of quest hubs and grinding. Gone are the days when the quests actually were challenging and meant something. I remember what an eqic experience it was to take down Lucan D'Lere in Freeport . The lead up to this generally took weeks to get to this point. Epic experiences like don't exist in our games anymore. There definatley is a market for a game/games like this why else would it be such a hot topic on this site?
Originally posted by thecapitaineThe prime danger in creating a game targeted at former EQ players should already be fairly obvious. We now live in an age of made-to-order entertainment and that has just as strong an effect on the hardcore crowd. Anyone who creates a game like this to buck the trend had better create a picture-perfect product. Because it's inevitable that some portion of the target crowd will find some reason not to play it. We've already seen the old-school crowd turn their noses up at the two most prominent attempts to revive the ancient MMO masters via Pantheon and Shards Online. Vanguard is getting shut down after being virtually DOA since release, despite the raves about how many gameplay aspects the game got right. Just with the finicky playerbase that haunts these forums I'd say anybody's best bet at making a return on their hefty investment is to stick mostly with what works and find places to iterate to make their game distinct. A far better plan than seeking to revive a school of gaming with nothing but anecdotal evidence at present to suggest it will be successful.
As one of the EQ vets I can say there hasn't been anything to support in any of the games you mention except Vanguard. Vanguard only after many years of work. So much of it was unfinished and bug ridden for a long time. A shame because it could have been awesome. Now it is just to old graphically speaking to be of interest. We don't expect perfection but many are wanting old school mechanics with modern graphics. Not hard to understand. Just because Pantheon was another Brad McQuaid vision doesn't mean any of us who remember what He did to Vanguard are going to be interested in anything he is offering. Mismanagement, lying, and betrayal of his employees at Sigil. He is going to have to prove himself worthy before he gets a dime from this EQ vet and probably many others. As for Shards, I want modern graphics not something that looks like a browser game. There are plenty of games like you mention. Many are actually calling for a return to what the genre was. Hence all the posts about being tired of quest hubs and grinding. Gone are the days when the quests actually were challenging and meant something. I remember what an eqic experience it was to take down Lucan D'Lere in Freeport . The lead up to this generally took weeks to get to this point. Epic experiences like don't exist in our games anymore. There definatley is a market for a game/games like this why else would it be such a hot topic on this site?
The AAA devs are flat out never going to make such games. I hear what you are saying and I agree that it would be nice to have a good game with modern graphics but after waiting on that for many years I gave up. My MMO of choice now is Wurm. Old graphics but a game that is actually good
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
In the end, a return to a true EQ successor would work. Would it be niche? Yes. Would a good amount of players not play it? Yes. Would it still make money? Yes.
I don't understand why there is such a fight about this. Yes, some people wouldn't play it, probably a good majority of the gaming community, but that's not to say that it wouldn't make money. There have been attempts recently for a old school MMO, however EQ:N isn't it, not nearly. SOE has been moving the EQ franchise AWAY from EQ since the first game.
I completely disagree that the combat is an issue. Yes it's slow, there is a reason, and just cause some posters here don't like that style of gameplay doesn't mean that it won't work. On the EQ server that I play on, can't mention it cause I will get a ban again, there is commonly at least 1000 ppl playing. Not to mention the players that play through SOE still, so there is a market. It may not be huge, for sure, but it is very possible and probable, that a polished enough game goes into development and is then released. People who only know themepark stye games, would try this style, some would stay the hell away, some would be converted to a harsher, immersive world style game.
Lets also not forget, some of the games that were mentioned above as attempts at this style game, had a ton of drama surrounding them. Especially Pantheon, so you can't completely call that an issue with the game, more of an issue with the Devs and management of the studio.
Overall, I believe a EQ successor will work and make money and I'm not gonna believe anyone saying that it won't till a game like it comes out. It's amazing that we can get a ton of themepark MMO's, but not one dev will try a Camp style, open world MMO. I had hopes for Pantheon, but after the terrible management with it, had to step back. I would love to see another Dev team take a shot at it but time will tell.
I doubt enough people wants to sit and wait for 5 - 10 minutes while mana goes back up or to be put on 'lists' just to get into a good loot/xp group, nor do i think people really want to forgo all the conveniences most of us have gotten used to by now.
What I do think a lot of people want, is a longer leveling experience where the journey becomes the main meat of the game. I just don't see that happening without ridiculous time sinks that the majority would hate
to be fair 'most people' are morons.
A game doesnt have to appeal to 'most people' in order to make money
To be fair, this logic also means that most of the people wanting an EQ-like game are morons.
I doubt enough people wants to sit and wait for 5 - 10 minutes while mana goes back up or to be put on 'lists' just to get into a good loot/xp group, nor do i think people really want to forgo all the conveniences most of us have gotten used to by now.
What I do think a lot of people want, is a longer leveling experience where the journey becomes the main meat of the game. I just don't see that happening without ridiculous time sinks that the majority would hate
to be fair 'most people' are morons.
A game doesnt have to appeal to 'most people' in order to make money
To be fair, this logic also means that most of the people wanting an EQ-like game are morons.
Are EQ-Like fan 'most people'?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I absolutely do believe that having 250k subs would be profitable. I absolutely do not believe that a company targeting 250k subs would get that many. You get a fraction if yourtarget market.
I am not sure if 250k subs is enough to justify the 50 to 100 million it takes to make a game with all the bells and whistles.
I absolutely believe that if the game did nut have allthe bells and whistles it works never ever get 250k subs.
It's a conundrum.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar To answer the op question. I'm not sure.
I absolutely do believe that having 250k subs would be profitable. I absolutely do not believe that a company targeting 250k subs would get that many. You get a fraction if yourtarget market.
I am not sure if 250k subs is enough to justify the 50 to 100 million it takes to make a game with all the bells and whistles.
I absolutely believe that if the game did nut have allthe bells and whistles it works never ever get 250k subs.
It's a conundrum.
I agree, although I also then take a look at a game like Camelot Unchained. A successor to DAoC, THANK GOD! So I look at that, and think, well if we can get that kinda support for DAoC, I don't see how we couldn't do the same thing with EQ. Now one could argue that CU has the support of all the PVPer's which EQ wouldn't necessarily get.
However, if we had a Dev that could bring across all the systems that folks seem to be asking for on this forum and others for an old school MMO and have the same polish and community communication I find it very hard pressed to say that it wouldn't be profitable and/or successful.
I also love both games, so maybe I am just being blinded by my own wants on this comparison, I dunno...
If you build a game with challenging, open world group pve content, they will come. Modern mmorpg gamers are intelligent enough to know a good thing when they see it.
Originally posted by Horusra So...you can pull maybe 200k with just ok EQ...doubt most of those would sub....another 50k with modern graphics and nothing else. So what kind of budget could a game with say 250K subs support as initial investment to create. That to me would determine what kind of game you could realistically get. This is what I see holding back an "old school" mmo.
While I think the premise is silly and exponentially underestimates the draw.. even in your proposal:
250k x $15 =$3.7M a month! That is nothing to sneeze at.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I often speak to friends who played EQ and all agree the experience has never been quite the same with any other MMO. It seems as though the things that use the frustrate me are the things that I miss.
To a point made earlier I think there are two many options for games out there that it is much tougher to compete in what seems to be an over-saturated market of fantasy genre MMOs. What hurts more is what I often refer to as 'WoW'd Down.' To maximize revenue Blizzard has dumbed-down WoW so much that many classes can be played with a handful of keystrokes. It is primarily about numbers and min-max. I do not blame Blizzard for their approach because it has brought MMOs to the casual player. Yet, over time it has set the expectation to people that if I play an hour or two I should obtaint the 'Sword of I Win.' Which diminishes achievements and effort for those achievements for some.
I remember the first time I got into a Plane of Hate raid as a warrior. I was very excited and the thrill and excitement of clearing the landing was amazing. Yes it was slow, but there were a lot of casual communication amongst players while we waited for the next pull. Anyways, we pull and what drops? The Warrior chest piece. I get lucky and win it. So the next day I am running through Everfrost and trying to sell my Crafted BP and advender and someone says via OOC "Oh yeah, I heard you won the warrior BP. Congrats." I never knew the person directly in game, but being a somewhat-legend for that one brief moment was pretty amazing. Now any accomplishment suffers in comparison.
EQ helped bring MMOs to the forefront of gaming companies minds as an opportunity for gaming experiences. EQ never had the numbers of WoW but in many ways the success of EQ helped usher in the MMO world of today. EQ in my mind also changed how the player community pooled resources and played the game. The day they introduced epic weapons was the day, in my mind, that changed how players approached community and approached guilds. The 'Zerg Guild' was born and competition was intense for seven day spawns or server reboot spawns. This, coupled with the Bazaar, did detract from the community feel somewhat but overall the EQ experience, which was my first, has not really ever been matched. I do miss hanging out in Commans area looking for a good deal. Or QUICK, run to zone. Bad pull.
All in all the EQ experience has and may never be repeated for many reasons stated in my and other people's posts. I am glad I had it and I am glad to have played many games since EQ. Now that I am older and have a family I cannot devote time like I did to EQ. Though I hope EQNext can bring back some of the magic of EQ, I think today there are so many experienced gamers with many different experiences for many different MMOs you will not be able to make a challenging game and have it be wildly successful in the realm of large subscription numbers. That may be the key though is to create a solid game that is challenging, rewarding content and gameplay and not make it for the casual three hour a week player.
MMO's NEED downtime during group fights to create the opportunity for social interaction that creates the glue that keeps people subscribed for years on end. EQ1 had the formula perfect.
Until competitors figure out down-time is boring to many, and there is a bigger audience who want to play the game, instead of chatting with people.
If you build a game with challenging, open world group pve content, they will come. Modern mmorpg gamers are intelligent enough to know a good thing when they see it.
There is a lot more evidence showing that if you build a good lobby game, they will come (D3, LoL, WoT, SC2, CoD, ....).
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar To answer the op question. I'm not sure.
I absolutely do believe that having 250k subs would be profitable. I absolutely do not believe that a company targeting 250k subs would get that many. You get a fraction if yourtarget market.
I am not sure if 250k subs is enough to justify the 50 to 100 million it takes to make a game with all the bells and whistles.
I absolutely believe that if the game did nut have allthe bells and whistles it works never ever get 250k subs.
It's a conundrum.
I agree, although I also then take a look at a game like Camelot Unchained. A successor to DAoC, THANK GOD! So I look at that, and think, well if we can get that kinda support for DAoC, I don't see how we couldn't do the same thing with EQ. Now one could argue that CU has the support of all the PVPer's which EQ wouldn't necessarily get.
However, if we had a Dev that could bring across all the systems that folks seem to be asking for on this forum and others for an old school MMO and have the same polish and community communication I find it very hard pressed to say that it wouldn't be profitable and/or successful.
I also love both games, so maybe I am just being blinded by my own wants on this comparison, I dunno...
difference is that CU is not an AAA title - if you would such EQ then yes, it could work, it could get about 200k players and be profitable.
but problem is that current players want AAA titles and to make that costs A LOT of money, so it would not be profitable
Originally posted by Horusra So...you can pull maybe 200k with just ok EQ...doubt most of those would sub....another 50k with modern graphics and nothing else. So what kind of budget could a game with say 250K subs support as initial investment to create. That to me would determine what kind of game you could realistically get. This is what I see holding back an "old school" mmo.
No one's saying to forget the last 15 years ever happened and just re-release EQ with good graphics.
What I'm saying, and I think others are too, is that we're tired of the WoW Model-Theme Park that has essentially bleed the social culture out of the genre. It wasn't any one thing that WoW did - in fact, on their own, most of WoW's innovations were positive. But overtime, there has been this escalation of "nerfs" to the social aspect of MMOs to the point where you can play the whole game - literally every single thing the game has to offer - from PvP, to 5-mans, to even freaking Raiding, without ever having to open your mouth and socialize. Throw in things like Cross-Realm, Welfare Legendaries, server changing, name changing and even transmog... and you are no longer able to be recognized for your accomplishments.
Even the best thing you can do in game is met with an indifferent shrug by most people.
That's just horrible. Absolutely horrible. And it needs to be fixed. For the genre to move forward, there needs to be a systematic disarmament of certain social conveniences we've come to enjoy... yet not a complete wipe of the last 15 years. There's a place for things like LFG/LFR... at the ass-bottom of the trough, progression wise. Regard it with exactly the same eye as you would solo play. Back in the golden days of WoW, the lone wolf had to settle for vastly inferior gear. That's the way it should be in an MMO. No more Legendaries for queuing for LFR for a few weeks.
At the same time, make the world dangerous and punishing for those who wanna go it alone. Make it hard to solo. Make death something you dread. Make a true, successful lonewolf something to respect - if not fear a little bit... but make it too hard for the average shmo to go it alone, unless he *really* steps up his game. At the same time, reward and incentivize grouping. EXP buffs. Tons of high impact abilities that don't work if you're soloing (Backstab was great like that). Do away with barriers to grouping. Never have a situation where the sentences: "I already did that quest, sorry" or "I'm not on that step yet, sorry" ever get spoken... reward players for being helpful/social, don't penalize them.
A new MMO that puts the second M ("Multiplayer") back into a fantasy setting will be wildly successful.
I don't know where people get the 200k number ... in this day and age of free games, i highly doubt a EQ clone can get anywhere close to that.
its from the fact that eq is still quite strong brand and there is quite few nostalgic players who loved eq1 or eq2
They did, but it did not stop them deserting the game to go play World of Warcraft instead. These days Everquest is viewed with nostalgia, while Everquest 2 is mostly viewed with disdain, it was a poorly implemented sequel that hardly anyone liked. EQ Next might revitalise the IP but its doubtful, its not an evolution of the IP but a complete revision, and with the aesthetics that many might not like - i hated them in all honesty, it may even be a dead end, which would be a shame as Everquest needs to be given a modern update, personally i just don't think that EQNext is it.
Originally posted by Horusra @Slapshot1188...3.7 million a month is not much if the game cost 100 million to make. Investors, employees, bills....all want to be paid.
Your false assumption is that it would cost $100M to make. It would take a fraction of that. Look at the budget for Camelot Unchained...
Nobody said it has to have voice acting and cutting edge/next gen graphics.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Originally posted by GiffenMMO's NEED downtime during group fights to create the opportunity for social interaction that creates the glue that keeps people subscribed for years on end. EQ1 had the formula perfect.
Until competitors figure out down-time is boring to many, and there is a bigger audience who want to play the game, instead of chatting with people.
But does it make sense to go after a target audience that already has 20 or so perfectly sound options?
Why not go after the target audience that doesn't have options. No one has made a game like EQ.
Comments
As one of the EQ vets I can say there hasn't been anything to support in any of the games you mention except Vanguard. Vanguard only after many years of work. So much of it was unfinished and bug ridden for a long time. A shame because it could have been awesome. Now it is just to old graphically speaking to be of interest. We don't expect perfection but many are wanting old school mechanics with modern graphics. Not hard to understand. Just because Pantheon was another Brad McQuaid vision doesn't mean any of us who remember what He did to Vanguard are going to be interested in anything he is offering. Mismanagement, lying, and betrayal of his employees at Sigil. He is going to have to prove himself worthy before he gets a dime from this EQ vet and probably many others. As for Shards, I want modern graphics not something that looks like a browser game. There are plenty of games like you mention. Many are actually calling for a return to what the genre was. Hence all the posts about being tired of quest hubs and grinding. Gone are the days when the quests actually were challenging and meant something. I remember what an eqic experience it was to take down Lucan D'Lere in Freeport . The lead up to this generally took weeks to get to this point. Epic experiences like don't exist in our games anymore. There definatley is a market for a game/games like this why else would it be such a hot topic on this site?
The AAA devs are flat out never going to make such games. I hear what you are saying and I agree that it would be nice to have a good game with modern graphics but after waiting on that for many years I gave up. My MMO of choice now is Wurm. Old graphics but a game that is actually good
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
In the end, a return to a true EQ successor would work. Would it be niche? Yes. Would a good amount of players not play it? Yes. Would it still make money? Yes.
I don't understand why there is such a fight about this. Yes, some people wouldn't play it, probably a good majority of the gaming community, but that's not to say that it wouldn't make money. There have been attempts recently for a old school MMO, however EQ:N isn't it, not nearly. SOE has been moving the EQ franchise AWAY from EQ since the first game.
I completely disagree that the combat is an issue. Yes it's slow, there is a reason, and just cause some posters here don't like that style of gameplay doesn't mean that it won't work. On the EQ server that I play on, can't mention it cause I will get a ban again, there is commonly at least 1000 ppl playing. Not to mention the players that play through SOE still, so there is a market. It may not be huge, for sure, but it is very possible and probable, that a polished enough game goes into development and is then released. People who only know themepark stye games, would try this style, some would stay the hell away, some would be converted to a harsher, immersive world style game.
Lets also not forget, some of the games that were mentioned above as attempts at this style game, had a ton of drama surrounding them. Especially Pantheon, so you can't completely call that an issue with the game, more of an issue with the Devs and management of the studio.
Overall, I believe a EQ successor will work and make money and I'm not gonna believe anyone saying that it won't till a game like it comes out. It's amazing that we can get a ton of themepark MMO's, but not one dev will try a Camp style, open world MMO. I had hopes for Pantheon, but after the terrible management with it, had to step back. I would love to see another Dev team take a shot at it but time will tell.
To be fair, this logic also means that most of the people wanting an EQ-like game are morons.
Are EQ-Like fan 'most people'?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I absolutely do believe that having 250k subs would be profitable. I absolutely do not believe that a company targeting 250k subs would get that many. You get a fraction if yourtarget market.
I am not sure if 250k subs is enough to justify the 50 to 100 million it takes to make a game with all the bells and whistles.
I absolutely believe that if the game did nut have allthe bells and whistles it works never ever get 250k subs.
It's a conundrum.
I agree, although I also then take a look at a game like Camelot Unchained. A successor to DAoC, THANK GOD! So I look at that, and think, well if we can get that kinda support for DAoC, I don't see how we couldn't do the same thing with EQ. Now one could argue that CU has the support of all the PVPer's which EQ wouldn't necessarily get.
However, if we had a Dev that could bring across all the systems that folks seem to be asking for on this forum and others for an old school MMO and have the same polish and community communication I find it very hard pressed to say that it wouldn't be profitable and/or successful.
I also love both games, so maybe I am just being blinded by my own wants on this comparison, I dunno...
To get 200 k plus subs you need the bells and whistles. The bells and whistles cost a whole lot currently.
Devs have offset this cost by cash shops.
I think the only easy to really do it effectively is find a way to get the bed and whistles cheaper.
If you build a game with challenging, open world group pve content, they will come. Modern mmorpg gamers are intelligent enough to know a good thing when they see it.
and from my understanding advertising and PR costs more than actual development
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
While I think the premise is silly and exponentially underestimates the draw.. even in your proposal:
250k x $15 =$3.7M a month! That is nothing to sneeze at.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I often speak to friends who played EQ and all agree the experience has never been quite the same with any other MMO. It seems as though the things that use the frustrate me are the things that I miss.
To a point made earlier I think there are two many options for games out there that it is much tougher to compete in what seems to be an over-saturated market of fantasy genre MMOs. What hurts more is what I often refer to as 'WoW'd Down.' To maximize revenue Blizzard has dumbed-down WoW so much that many classes can be played with a handful of keystrokes. It is primarily about numbers and min-max. I do not blame Blizzard for their approach because it has brought MMOs to the casual player. Yet, over time it has set the expectation to people that if I play an hour or two I should obtaint the 'Sword of I Win.' Which diminishes achievements and effort for those achievements for some.
I remember the first time I got into a Plane of Hate raid as a warrior. I was very excited and the thrill and excitement of clearing the landing was amazing. Yes it was slow, but there were a lot of casual communication amongst players while we waited for the next pull. Anyways, we pull and what drops? The Warrior chest piece. I get lucky and win it. So the next day I am running through Everfrost and trying to sell my Crafted BP and advender and someone says via OOC "Oh yeah, I heard you won the warrior BP. Congrats." I never knew the person directly in game, but being a somewhat-legend for that one brief moment was pretty amazing. Now any accomplishment suffers in comparison.
EQ helped bring MMOs to the forefront of gaming companies minds as an opportunity for gaming experiences. EQ never had the numbers of WoW but in many ways the success of EQ helped usher in the MMO world of today. EQ in my mind also changed how the player community pooled resources and played the game. The day they introduced epic weapons was the day, in my mind, that changed how players approached community and approached guilds. The 'Zerg Guild' was born and competition was intense for seven day spawns or server reboot spawns. This, coupled with the Bazaar, did detract from the community feel somewhat but overall the EQ experience, which was my first, has not really ever been matched. I do miss hanging out in Commans area looking for a good deal. Or QUICK, run to zone. Bad pull.
All in all the EQ experience has and may never be repeated for many reasons stated in my and other people's posts. I am glad I had it and I am glad to have played many games since EQ. Now that I am older and have a family I cannot devote time like I did to EQ. Though I hope EQNext can bring back some of the magic of EQ, I think today there are so many experienced gamers with many different experiences for many different MMOs you will not be able to make a challenging game and have it be wildly successful in the realm of large subscription numbers. That may be the key though is to create a solid game that is challenging, rewarding content and gameplay and not make it for the casual three hour a week player.
Until competitors figure out down-time is boring to many, and there is a bigger audience who want to play the game, instead of chatting with people.
There is a lot more evidence showing that if you build a good lobby game, they will come (D3, LoL, WoT, SC2, CoD, ....).
difference is that CU is not an AAA title - if you would such EQ then yes, it could work, it could get about 200k players and be profitable.
but problem is that current players want AAA titles and to make that costs A LOT of money, so it would not be profitable
No one's saying to forget the last 15 years ever happened and just re-release EQ with good graphics.
What I'm saying, and I think others are too, is that we're tired of the WoW Model-Theme Park that has essentially bleed the social culture out of the genre. It wasn't any one thing that WoW did - in fact, on their own, most of WoW's innovations were positive. But overtime, there has been this escalation of "nerfs" to the social aspect of MMOs to the point where you can play the whole game - literally every single thing the game has to offer - from PvP, to 5-mans, to even freaking Raiding, without ever having to open your mouth and socialize. Throw in things like Cross-Realm, Welfare Legendaries, server changing, name changing and even transmog... and you are no longer able to be recognized for your accomplishments.
Even the best thing you can do in game is met with an indifferent shrug by most people.
That's just horrible. Absolutely horrible. And it needs to be fixed. For the genre to move forward, there needs to be a systematic disarmament of certain social conveniences we've come to enjoy... yet not a complete wipe of the last 15 years. There's a place for things like LFG/LFR... at the ass-bottom of the trough, progression wise. Regard it with exactly the same eye as you would solo play. Back in the golden days of WoW, the lone wolf had to settle for vastly inferior gear. That's the way it should be in an MMO. No more Legendaries for queuing for LFR for a few weeks.
At the same time, make the world dangerous and punishing for those who wanna go it alone. Make it hard to solo. Make death something you dread. Make a true, successful lonewolf something to respect - if not fear a little bit... but make it too hard for the average shmo to go it alone, unless he *really* steps up his game. At the same time, reward and incentivize grouping. EXP buffs. Tons of high impact abilities that don't work if you're soloing (Backstab was great like that). Do away with barriers to grouping. Never have a situation where the sentences: "I already did that quest, sorry" or "I'm not on that step yet, sorry" ever get spoken... reward players for being helpful/social, don't penalize them.
A new MMO that puts the second M ("Multiplayer") back into a fantasy setting will be wildly successful.
I don't know where people get the 200k number ... in this day and age of free games, i highly doubt a EQ clone can get anywhere close to that.
its from the fact that eq is still quite strong brand and there is quite few nostalgic players who loved eq1 or eq2
edit: not to mention there are quite a few "game hoppers" who play any mmorpg that is launched in the west
Fidelity to art and quality can change the economic analysis. Anything is possible as long as we believe in ourselves.
They did, but it did not stop them deserting the game to go play World of Warcraft instead. These days Everquest is viewed with nostalgia, while Everquest 2 is mostly viewed with disdain, it was a poorly implemented sequel that hardly anyone liked. EQ Next might revitalise the IP but its doubtful, its not an evolution of the IP but a complete revision, and with the aesthetics that many might not like - i hated them in all honesty, it may even be a dead end, which would be a shame as Everquest needs to be given a modern update, personally i just don't think that EQNext is it.
Your false assumption is that it would cost $100M to make. It would take a fraction of that. Look at the budget for Camelot Unchained...
Nobody said it has to have voice acting and cutting edge/next gen graphics.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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But does it make sense to go after a target audience that already has 20 or so perfectly sound options?
Why not go after the target audience that doesn't have options. No one has made a game like EQ.