I have been playing mmo's for 20 years...

TheQuietGamer

...So my opinion is clearly more credible than yours.  

Is this possibly the most irritating statement regularly seen on mmorpg.com, or are there others?

 

rafalex007

there is :

if you are older then me doesn't make you right

arrannyc

Logical fallacies seem to be the lifeblood of the internet.

Jaychi72

Hard to say..

I work with a bunch of older people that have been doing the job for about the same time you have been playing and well umm yeah.... lets just say they shoulda quit about 10 years ago.

 

Doesn't mean I don't respect them and their opinions though.

Myria

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Is this possibly the most irritating statement regularly seen on mmorpg.com, or are there others?

 

I can think of a few, to be honest, most start with "Everyone knows...", "As we all know...", "We gamers feel that...", or some other attempt to claim to be speaking for some majority rather than just one's self. It would be somewhat less annoying if the people using such phrases didn't generally clearly believe they had the right, rather than recognizing that they're using a pathetically transparent attempt at cheap rhetorical trickery to shut down any counter-argument before it can begin, but generally they do seem to honestly believe they speak for all and sundry.

 

That, and the endless variations on "My Console/Platform-of-choice/Game can beat up your Console/Platform-of-choice/Game!".

 

It never ceases to amaze me how automatically people will turn literally any discussion into a religious war. The Crusades were a minor spat next to some of the Sony Vs. MS Vs. Holier-than-thou-PCMASTERRACE "discussions".

 

/sigh

Avanah

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

...So my opinion is clearly more credible than yours.  

Is this possibly the most irritating statement regularly seen on mmorpg.com, or are there others?

 

The second line in my signature.

Kyleran

What factors make one opinion more credible than another?

Experience or knowledge in a particular subject tends to be one factor, so someone who has done something a long time or experienced a wide variety of what the field offers would likely be more credible than a relative newcomer.

Of course this isn't always true, but in general longevity is a reasonable indicator (among others) that one opinion might be more valuable than another.

For example, if someone tells me their entire MMO experience is from games created in the last 5 years it tells me they never experienced the early designs which I feel were clearly superior so I can't value their opinion nearly as much as someone who shares the same experience as I have.

TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Kyleran
What factors make one opinion more credible than another?

Experience or knowledge in a particular subject tends to be one factor, so someone who has done something a long time or experienced a wide variety of what the field offers would likely be more credible than a relative newcomer.

Of course this isn't always true, but in general longevity is a reasonable indicator (among others) that one opinion might be more valuable than another.

For example, if someone tells me their entire MMO experience is from games created in the last 5 years it tells me they never experienced the early designs which I feel were clearly superior so I can't value their opinion nearly as much as someone who shares the same experience as I have.

If the subject is complex I would agree to some extent.  In my job I never experienced asbestos being integrated into the design of a building, but I sure as hell know where I am likely to find it, the same as someone who has been in the industry for 40 years would.  And that example is vastly more complex than MMO's are or have ever been.  

As an example: 'I am a vet from EQ, UO, and as such my opinion that the questing in X-game is rather dull should carry extra gravitas'  Why?  Anyone can play the game and find the quests dull.  MMO's aren't complex, they are easily learnt and experienced.    

Azoth

While 20 years on a factory line doing the same day after day might not gives someone more experiance past a certain point, trying different jobs or having a job that require constant thinking and to adapt to new challenge certainly improves your knowledge.

If for 20 years you have been playing the same mmo you won't have the same perspective than someone that played over 200 of them. It also depends on the subject of the conversation, some can be simply subjective in which case experiance is less valuable.

When I go to an hospital I tend to trust more the doctor that have been working for 20 years rather than the new guy just out of school. While not always true, the former tend to know more about his stuff.

LordZeik

Unless I see some sort of degrees or other certification your opinion carries just as much weight as the next guy. Grats on playing for 20 years though! Oddly enough this genre of gaming still has a long way to go.

CrazKanuk

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

...So my opinion is clearly more credible than yours.  

Is this possibly the most irritating statement regularly seen on mmorpg.com, or are there others?

 

It can be, without any sort of qualification of that knowledge. 20 years of playing games is a great deal of experience and it shouldn't be cast aside as rubbish. However, it doesn't immediately qualify you as an expert. I've worked in the gaming industry and I've also worked in software testing, both give me some great insight into why some decisions are made (bad or good), best practices, and the overall process, but it doesn't give me any credibility when it comes to design if I haven't played an MMO ever. So, yes, 20 years experience can be of value, but it's likely to be subjective. However, if those same ideals are in line with your own, then it's probably an opinion you want to give more credibility to. 

TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While 20 years on a factory line doing the same day after day might not gives someone more experiance past a certain point, trying different jobs or having a job that require constant thinking and to adapt to new challenge certainly improves your knowledge.

If for 20 years you have been playing the same mmo you won't have the same perspective than someone that played over 200 of them. It also depends on the subject of the conversation, some can be simply subjective in which case experiance is less valuable.

When I go to an hospital I tend to trust more the doctor that have been working for 20 years rather than the new guy just out of school. While not always true, the former tend to know more about his stuff.

I am not sure that I would.  The guy fresh out of school will have learnt the latest techniques and theories.  The older guy is likely to be rather stuck in his ways and world-weary.  In addition, effluxion of time is no gauge of competence.  

But as I said above- a doctor is a complex job, mmo's are simple.  People, on this site in particular, have a tendency to overstate how complex mmo's are.  

Ludwik

As a member of this small minority group, I feel that I must share my affiliation with you as it clearly gives me the superior moral high ground.

Darwa

I was recently offered real-life money to hand over my account on here. The person that made the offer wanted an 'old' account so it would make them seem more 'credible'.

Yes, I've notified Admin etc. 

So yeah, lots of people must really believe in that sort of thing. Personally, properly written English goes a very long way in making me take someone's facts seriously, and my opinion of their opinion is always based on how they back their's up.

Avanah

Originally posted by Ludwik
As a member of this small minority group, I feel that I must share my affiliation with you as it clearly gives me the superior moral high ground.

2.7 million members is not small.

Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

...So my opinion is clearly more credible than yours.  

Is this possibly the most irritating statement regularly seen on mmorpg.com, or are there others?

 

Don't forget the join date on the forums. that is a big deal too.

Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While 20 years on a factory line doing the same day after day might not gives someone more experiance past a certain point, trying different jobs or having a job that require constant thinking and to adapt to new challenge certainly improves your knowledge.

If for 20 years you have been playing the same mmo you won't have the same perspective than someone that played over 200 of them. It also depends on the subject of the conversation, some can be simply subjective in which case experiance is less valuable.

When I go to an hospital I tend to trust more the doctor that have been working for 20 years rather than the new guy just out of school. While not always true, the former tend to know more about his stuff.

I am not sure that I would.  The guy fresh out of school will have learnt the latest techniques and theories.  The older guy is likely to be rather stuck in his ways and world-weary.  In addition, effluxion of time is no gauge of competence.  

But as I said above- a doctor is a complex job, mmo's are simple.  People, on this site in particular, have a tendency to overstate how complex mmo's are.  

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

breadm1x

I used that sentence yesterday.

And that was about online gaming (started online gaming on a 300 baud acoustic modem and a 4.77mhz ibm with 512kb).

Only i had a Hercules monoccrome screen.

Updated that years later to what u see here an expensive CGA screen witch could handle like 4 colour at the same time !

I even Overclocked it with a Nec V20 later ! to a whooping 8mhz !

 

TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While 20 years on a factory line doing the same day after day might not gives someone more experiance past a certain point, trying different jobs or having a job that require constant thinking and to adapt to new challenge certainly improves your knowledge.

If for 20 years you have been playing the same mmo you won't have the same perspective than someone that played over 200 of them. It also depends on the subject of the conversation, some can be simply subjective in which case experiance is less valuable.

When I go to an hospital I tend to trust more the doctor that have been working for 20 years rather than the new guy just out of school. While not always true, the former tend to know more about his stuff.

I am not sure that I would.  The guy fresh out of school will have learnt the latest techniques and theories.  The older guy is likely to be rather stuck in his ways and world-weary.  In addition, effluxion of time is no gauge of competence.  

But as I said above- a doctor is a complex job, mmo's are simple.  People, on this site in particular, have a tendency to overstate how complex mmo's are.  

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

I genuinely don't understand your last sentence.  

I raised the job comparison, but I don't actually think it is synonymous with entertainment.  I can see a film and decide if I like it or not regardless of having seen Citizen Kane.  The same is true for mmo's, opinions are subjective.    

Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

I genuinely don't understand your last sentence.  

I don't think it get much more complex than mmos in the gaming industries. So in the field it certainly isn't than simple.

Are you talking about the gameplay or the making when you say they are simple ?

TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

I genuinely don't understand your last sentence.  

I don't think it get much more complex than mmos in the gaming industries. So in the field it certainly isn't than simple.

Are you talking about the gameplay or the making when you say they are simple ?

gameplay.  

Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

I genuinely don't understand your last sentence.  

I don't think it get much more complex than mmos in the gaming industries. So in the field it certainly isn't than simple.

Are you talking about the gameplay or the making when you say they are simple ?

gameplay.  

Well yea that's a given for any form of entertainement, I doubt anyone would like it if it required 10 years of learning before you could start to enjoy a game.

TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

I genuinely don't understand your last sentence.  

I don't think it get much more complex than mmos in the gaming industries. So in the field it certainly isn't than simple.

Are you talking about the gameplay or the making when you say they are simple ?

gameplay.  

Well yea that's a given for any form of entertainement, I doubt anyone would like it if it required 10 years of learning before you could start to enjoy a game.

I am referring to the vast majority of people on this site who play games rather than programme them.  I edited my last post to include the following: - 

I raised the job comparison, but I don't actually think it is synonymous with entertainment.  I can see a film and decide if I like it or not regardless of having seen Citizen Kane.  The same is true for mmo's, opinions are subjective. 

Beelzebobbie

There are also this one: MMOs were so much better back in the old days

Or: PvP sucks in this game cause it's not as good as DAoC.

Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Originally posted by Azoth

While time isn't always a gauge for competence it is most likely an important factor. You dont have 25 years old judge, you have to make your way to the top constantly proving that you know your shit.

Doctor don't just stop learning new stuff when they get out of school, they keep up to date with all of it. Come a stage where they can start to regress tho, I wouldn't like to have a 75 years old doctor simply because there is greater chances for mental issues.

It's mostly a case by case scenario, while experiance is not an absolute, it is an important factor.

And if mmo where that simple, none would flop.

I genuinely don't understand your last sentence.  

I don't think it get much more complex than mmos in the gaming industries. So in the field it certainly isn't than simple.

Are you talking about the gameplay or the making when you say they are simple ?

gameplay.  

Well yea that's a given for any form of entertainement, I doubt anyone would like it if it required 10 years of learning before you could start to enjoy a game.

I am referring to the vast majority of people on this site who play games rather than programme them.  I edited my last post to include the following: - 

I raised the job comparison, but I don't actually think it is synonymous with entertainment.  I can see a film and decide if I like it or not regardless of having seen Citizen Kane.  The same is true for mmo's, opinions are subjective. 

But a movie critic wouldn't be able to do a decent job if he haven't seen other movies. You can tell if you like a movie or not, but you can't compare it to something you haven't seen. You cannot say if it's best movie of the decade if you saw only 3 movies.

It's all a matter of perspective, the more you know, the more you saw, the more you touched, then better you can compare and judge it.

fivoroth

MMORPGs have not been around for 20 years? These people lose credibly instantly cause they are lying